$5/10 Live NL hand
 

$5/10 Live NL game here in Vegas. We were full for several hours, but the game recently became 5 handed.

Shortest stack has $500 behind. I have $1800. Villian has $3k. Biggest stack is between us and has around $4K.

Reads:

I am in seat 2. The two players to my right are horrible. The player immediately to my left is a pro. The player to his left has been talking all night about how he just cashed in a local big event for around 10K and it is obviously the only reason he is playing in the game. He is tight-solid-predictable but good enough to beat most 2/5 games in Vegas right now. I haven't seen him get very creative, but he has made some moves at pots from time to time. I've never seen him move with air.

The Hand:

I am in the CO and UTG fish limps. I have A-7d and make it $35, which was a common raise amount since we got short handed.

Button folds and villian calls quickly. BB and UTG both fold.

FLOP: 7-4-2 rainbow.

Villian checks and I bet $60. He looks like he contemplates a c/r, but calls. My impression is that he was considering taking me off the hand right there but I didn't have a strong read about his hand value at that point.

TURN: K. No flush draw on board.

Villian checks. His body language tells me that he is ready to play a big pot. I check.

RIVER: 7

He pretty quickly leads for $60 and I raise to $200 straight. He re-raises to $900. I have $1500 behind and he has almost 2K left after the raise. My immediate read is that he is strong but not full, though he could have played 2-2 or 4-4 that way based on his prior play.

I only considered calling and re-raising for the rest of my chips. Which option do you like better or is there another line to the hand that you would have preferred?

Thank you in advance for any comments.

Irieguy

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

So Villain is the tight-solid-predictable guy who doesn't move with air? The only hand that could possibly pay you off is AA; everything else folds or crushes you. I'd rather fold than push over the top. He obviously can't be semi-bluffing on the river, and if he's tight, predictable, and you haven't seen him make a move with air, he probably has 44 or 22.

Pushing over the top is pure spewage, so if you don't want to consider folding, this is a call.

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

Irie,

The line is good, I would almost always play it that way.

Now let's decide on the river play:

"tight solid predictable"

Ok, so he can't have K7? 74ss? (based on pf play) I think 444 and 222 are pretty possible but perhaps not with your read... would he call here with 87? 79?

ALthough you mentioned the occasional bluff I think it is very unlikely he has complete air, but he could have a hand like AK maybe if he overplays hands and isnt able to put people on low cards...

Has he ever reraised? some people never reraise so KK could be possible.

Personally without a more solid read I would not often consider raising here since the only hands that make sense for him that are behind you don't call the raise enough to make up for the times you run into a FH imo.

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

Why couldn't he have a worse 7 here?

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Irie,

The line is good, I would almost always play it that way.

Now let's decide on the river play:

"tight solid predictable"

Ok, so he can't have K7? 74ss? (based on pf play) I think 444 and 222 are pretty possible but perhaps not with your read... would he call here with 87? 79?

ALthough you mentioned the occasional bluff I think it is very unlikely he has complete air, but he could have a hand like AK maybe if he overplays hands and isnt able to put people on low cards...

Has he ever reraised? some people never reraise so KK could be possible.

Personally without a more solid read I would not often consider raising here since the only hands that make sense for him that are behind you don't call the raise enough to make up for the times you run into a FH imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, one thing I forgot to mention (maybe the most important part) is that I had been playing very LAG. I had been open-raising almost every time I could for over 3 hours because the table was allowing it. Because of our seats, this guy was often in the blinds or limping UTG while I was doing this.

I felt like this guy would play back at me on the end with this board with many pairs. He WOULD have re-raised modestly preflop with QQ,KK, or AA because he knows I would have called a reasonable re-raise with most hands.

I considered re-raising him on the end because of the fact that I had seen him play pairs with paired boards aggressively and because I thought he would not have liked how small the pot was on the turn if he had a set. It also crossed my mind that the king may have given me enough of a reason to call in his mind since my preflop raising frequency was high enough to include all kings but not all queens. He was definitely adequately frustrated enough by me to call off more chips with some losing combinations... but I didn't get the sense that was afraid to do so.

Irieguy

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

I often make the mistake of thinking that people are getting tired of me runnning over them when in reality the only reason they are playing back is because they made a hand.

Going solely based on your physical reads: thinking of raising the flop, checking the turn looking to raise, 3 betting river, sure looks like turned or flopped 2 pair, or flopped set enough times that compounded by the fact that he isn't likely to call with too many hands you beat make this an easy just call. If he happens to have 79 and you just misread the turn, oh well I think calling is still best.

As other people mentioned against almost everyone your decision here should be to EITHER fold or call, raising being reserved for very rare spots.

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

Your reads lead me to believe he had the 44 or 22. you've really got to fold here. His body language implies the flopped set.

His quick weak river bet seems the perfect set up to be reraised and you complied.

PS good luck with the big one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

I dont like the turn check...

[ QUOTE ]
His body language tells me that he is ready to play a big pot. I check.


[/ QUOTE ]

unless you are somewhat confident in this read... however- in that case i definitely just call the river. I dont mean to imply that your read cant change (maybe you were somewhat confident in your read on the turn but now arent on the river), however if your read didnt change- there are no strong hands on the turn which you beat on the river (AA?!@#?) except hands which have been counterfeited.

If this was online i think folding would cross my mind sometimes- however it would still rarely be done.

This all depends how much of a fish he is obviously.

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

"My impression is that he was considering taking me off the hand right there but I didn't have a strong read about his hand value at that point."

If this was your impression from his body language ie "he was getting ready to c/r then i would of instantly put him on a over pair. Did he peak at your stack? Did he stare you down pause and then just called? For me it sounds like 10's,JJ's QQ's trying to break you. He loved the baby flop initially but then thought twice about trapping, hence the impression you got regarding the c/r. He already blabbed about his previous winnings that night...maybe he thought he was indestructible and had no way of losing that night?

Think about it!

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont like the turn check...

[ QUOTE ]
His body language tells me that he is ready to play a big pot. I check.


[/ QUOTE ]

unless you are somewhat confident in this read... however- in that case i definitely just call the river. I dont mean to imply that your read cant change (maybe you were somewhat confident in your read on the turn but now arent on the river), however if your read didnt change- there are no strong hands on the turn which you beat on the river (AA?!@#?) except hands which have been counterfeited.

If this was online i think folding would cross my mind sometimes- however it would still rarely be done.

This all depends how much of a fish he is obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]
online u can usually fold this, but betting and raising ao tiny all over the place is v rare online so the hand prob wouldnt go down this way (60-200-900 on river, WTF?).

just call the river raise since u played this hand so weird, and start raising a little more preflop unless u really want multiway samll pots (only if these guyss are megacalling-stations basically)...

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

Irie,

Given the info you've provided, seems like a clear call to me.

Results Poll
 

One of the following results actually happened. I thought it would be more fun to see what everybody thought was most likely:

Re: Results Poll
 

i pushed he called 99 seems so off the wall that it almost has to be true.. but you obv know that, so could be putting it in as a teaser to throw off everyones votes.. hmmmm.. what to pick.. holla

Re: Results Poll
 

The fact that you even posted this hand makes 1 and 2 go out the window I think.

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

You called and he showed 78...

But the call (the 900) is still the correct play even if you can put your opponent on a weaker 7 a huge ammount of the time because weaker sevens usually won't pay off to a shove, but you will get called by every hand that beats you.

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
You called and he showed 78...

But the call (the 900) is still the correct play even if you can put your opponent on a weaker 7 a huge ammount of the time because weaker sevens usually won't pay off to a shove, but you will get called by every hand that beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

in a live game i dont think anyone will ever think about folding any 7 on this river. holla

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You called and he showed 78...

But the call (the 900) is still the correct play even if you can put your opponent on a weaker 7 a huge ammount of the time because weaker sevens usually won't pay off to a shove, but you will get called by every hand that beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

in a live game i dont think anyone will ever think about folding any 7 on this river. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I would, wouldn't you?

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

I would say that given the line you took with this hand, it is far too easy for him to put you on a steal, and far too often he will only have a worse 7 here to fold your hand. I don't like a RR at all, but given your image, I can't see a fold.

Final results
 

I ended up feeling that he was most likely to have a pocket pair or worse 7 and that he would call for the remainder of my chips.

I pushed and he instantly called and flipped up his 4-4 and did a little dance.

It was awesome.

Irieguy

Re: Final results
 

Irie,

I don't see how "His body language tells me that he is ready to play a big pot." on the turn is consistent w/ him possibly having a seven.

And what pocket pairs are you expecting a call from?

Think about his range of hands based on the action and how likely each hand in that range is to pay off a push. I think you'll find it hard to justify your push.

Word.

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You called and he showed 78...

But the call (the 900) is still the correct play even if you can put your opponent on a weaker 7 a huge ammount of the time because weaker sevens usually won't pay off to a shove, but you will get called by every hand that beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

in a live game i dont think anyone will ever think about folding any 7 on this river. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I would, wouldn't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, every live game ive ever played everyone was a complete utter idiot, and the majority of that play has been 5-10 and 10-20. ppl hate to fold, and i find live games incredibly easier than online at the same stakes. fwiw i only call tho. but i just read results, but id only call anyway and would be scared to do that. lead 3 bets are scarrrry. holla

Re: Final results
 

[ QUOTE ]
I ended up feeling that he was most likely to have a pocket pair or worse 7 and that he would call for the remainder of my chips.

I pushed and he instantly called and flipped up his 4-4 and did a little dance.

It was awesome.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]i voted this.
reraising is sooo bad there.

Re: Final results
 

l, raptor, etc:

If I had reason to believe my opponent had a seven, then pushing makes much more sense, because he'll often call w/ any seven.

Word.

Re: Final results
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how "His body language tells me that he is ready to play a big pot." on the turn is consistent w/ him possibly having a seven.

And what pocket pairs are you expecting a call from?


[/ QUOTE ]

n1. ty - it brought to mind the what does he think that you think that he has here... he told you what he had... did you fall in love with your 7?

Re: Final results
 

[ QUOTE ]
Irie,

...I think you'll find it hard to justify your push.

Word.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word.

I felt like an ass and posted the hand here to help myself identify at what point in the hand I should have been most capable of knowing how strong he was.

I realize now that my read of his strength was dead-on, but I tried to convince myself that he was merely eager to play back at me. As Apathy said, when somebody is eager to play back at you when they haven't in the past, it is usually because they are pwning you.

Irie

Re: $5/10 Live NL hand
 

Does Mr. Tight-solid-predictable call from the SB with 7x (OOP against a strong player and with a UTG limper yet to act)? And if he had 7x would he play the flop and turn as passively as he did (or even with 88-JJ)? Based on your reads, and the way he has played the hand up to this point (and your saying that he likely would have re-raised PF with QQ-AA) I think 22 and 44 are his only likely hands (the K on board really diminishes the chances of him pushing a hand this hard with 88-JJ). I definitely call behind ATR and hope for the best.