Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Whether it be a $100 max buy in no limit game where people are limp-calling reraises with A6s or a $65+15 SNG, I really don't see the point of doing this. OMGZZZTELLZ

It just bothers me when we're seeing like nine hands/month and every single player refuses to look at their cards until it's their turn. Sometimes UTG won't look at his cards without staring the table down...

So is everyone doing this? Only high stakes? Only low? Only NL?

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I used to do it because I thought it was cool but I now I just do it out of reflex

Either way it never slowed the action down but this isn't the case for most

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I don't do it that much anymore, but when I do it has nothing to do with tells. When I was a beginner I did it to make sure I was making my decision based on the action that led up to me. Now its just whatever, who cares.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

Impatient a little? I do this out of habit, because when I started playing live, I wanted to make sure I wasn't getting anxious and acting out of turn. Fast forward 4 years from that time and I still wait, but not because of acting out of turn, but so I pay attention to the other action. Don't worry, the extra half second I spend looking at my cards isn't going to slow our game down. I'm pretty good at folding my 93o pretty quick too, one flick and in the muck. I'm not going to be giving off any tells that my opponents will be picking up anyway. Its just how I play the game.

Now, if you had made this a pointless rant against the people who wait, then stare down the rest of the table in their 3/6 game to look cool waiting to limp in with their Q4 sooooooooted, then you might be on to something.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

It's exactly what I'm talking about, and yes I'm extremely impatient, like gamble-junky status.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I feel the same way. If your giving off any tells your not aware of when you look at your cards, why would you want to wait till the whole table is watching you to look at your cards. I look at my cards as soon as I get them, then observe what I can from the others that wait.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

When I play NL I usually wait until it's my turn to act. When I play limit I usually look when the person on my right is getting ready to look/do something. If I'm in the big blind I usually look as soon as there's at least 1 limper. No real reason why, just habit.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I agree - poker is a slow game even when everyone is playing at normal pace. When 1 or 2 at the table are slow to act every hand it can become frustrating.

Its similar to playing golf in a foursome. You're going to be on the course long enough as it is - When its your turn to hit be ready to hit. If you are 1st to tee off on a hole get up there and tee off. Don't unneccessarily slow things down. I think thats just good etiquette.

Whenever I am UTG I immediately look at my cards as soon as I get my 2nd card and I know what I'm going to do before button gets their last card. When I'm SB, I have chips already in hand and as soon as flop hits I either check or put chips down, etc, etc. There are times of course when faced with a big decision that extra time is warranted - that doesn't bother me.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

the best way to do it is as soon as you know what the person on your right is going to do, look. usually i can act just as fast that way as if i was to look at my cards as soon as they were dealt.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

The only time i dont look is when im on the Big Blind and im short stacked and need to push.

A friend of mine does this all the time because he thinks touching them is bad luck. He woulnt even reach for them to pull them in and he also is always losing focus on when its his turn. It drives me [censored] nuts

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

UTG the gun my hand is folded before the dealer even finishes dealing. The rest of the time I wait until the action is a few player to my right. I want to know what the action is before I make a decision and I want time to look at the players to my left that look at their cards immediatly.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

Every random poker book and poker TV show tells the newbies "never look at your cards until it's your turn". I *HATE* that advice. Newbies who need 30 seconds to decide what to do with their 2 cards need all the lead time they can get. The advice should be to look at your cards when nobody else is looking at you, but don't move a muscle after you've looked until it's your turn, and then don't move until you decide what you're doing. One of the great tells of the world is the obvious newbie who glances at his cards, instantly grabs for a whole stack, then suddenly thinks "gee--maybe I shouldn't raise to $100 with AA" and instead grabs four chips off the top.

If you ARE going to wait to look, at least have the courtesy to have the cards in hand and be ready to look when it comes around. Don't sit there leaning back with your arms crossed and when it comes your turn only then look around, take a deep breath, lean forward and ever-so-slowly squeeze out the two cards, then set them down and ever so carefully cover them with your WSOP-brand Chip Protector, lean back and cross your arms again, look very thoughtful, stare at everybody again, and then very dramatically and very sloooowly lean forward again and ever so carefully remove your WSOP-brand Chip Protector, and flick the cards into the muck. PARTICULARLY in a tournament with the dang timer ticking down. If you had any idea what my hands were doing to your face in my imagination at that point you wouldn't be able to sleep again. You are NOT the center of the universe and we are NOT impressed with your Hollywood theatrics. Just look at the bloody cards and act! NOW!

Poker needs to use chess clocks. (Well--10-person versions of a chess clock.) I don't mind someone spending 60 seconds on a $500 decision now and then. It is not ok for them to spend 30 seconds on EVERY decision.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

If I am in the blind, I never look until someone else has entered the pot. I think it is courteous to offer or accept a chop without looking at your hole cards.

If I'm not in the blind, I will usually look just before the action is on me.

If I am UTG, I will often look at my first card immediately and then fold before getting my second card if I am trying to create a tight image.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I wait, but I don't think it slows down the game any.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

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I wait, but I don't think it slows down the game any.

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I usually know what I'm going to do before I look at my cards anyway. Preflop is easy.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I have no problem with people waiting until the action is to them to look at their cards, as long as they look and act fairly quickly. Having said that, I much prefer when donkeys look at their cards before the action gets to them and then squirm around in their seats, unable to contain the excitement they feel at having picked up a monster like AQs. Keep looking and getting excited.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

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I wait, but I don't think it slows down the game any.

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I usually know what I'm going to do before I look at my cards anyway. Preflop is easy.

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Really? I think cards matter at least a little.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I wait till its my turn to look. But it takes me literally a split second to look and then muck.

What i hate is those fugging idiot wannabes who slow down the game when they don't even have a fugging clue. Waiting to look is pointless when you don't even know how to play.

Action gets to them, and they have to justle with the cards, line up their cards, cup their hands like a pro, do the whole lean their head down thing, then literally peak at their cards as if they're examining diamonds, and then taking like 30 seconds to decide what they wanna do.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I do this, but I don't slow down the game at all...I look quickly the instant it's my turn. If it brings the game to a halt, yes it's annoying. I'd rather look at other people as they look at their cards (esp. to my left) and I don't want to give anything away in advance if I plan to play a hand. This is very common in the mid and high limit games I play in and usually people who do look immediately tend to otherwise suck (though there are exceptions). Plus, it's good for your patience.

Jeff

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I don't see how in the same breath people say they wait which is a delay by any definition then say they don't slow down (delay) the game. Must be one of those I don't but others do type things.

Look at me, I can stop the passage of time with sheer willpower.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

In tournaments, I generally wait until it is my turn to look. In ring (limit) games, I usually look when action is a seat or 2 to my right. Either way, it rarely takes me even 5 seconds to make a decision.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

This isn't a problem that you'll find many culprits of here in this forum. People are saying they don't slow the game down by waiting because comparatively, they don't. It is the new players that look at their cards and see marginal hands or something like K2 and they have to think forever about what they want to do. Most of us are able to make that decision within seconds.

That is where the delay comes in.

Tothe poster who described the hand cupping and leaning down, etc. That is dead on. As I was reading what you wrote I was cringing and wanting to say hurry up.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I watch the table and I don't see how people who wait until it's their turn can say that they do not delay the game. Yeah sure, sometimes they insta-muck. But almost always, things would be faster if they looked at some point before their turn. I've seen a couple good people put out chips instantly, but it's rare.

But often enough most folks are late or something else happens and now we have a real delay (relatively speaking)

I won't really fault someone for waiting their turn (hey, it's not a lot of time even though it can add up if everyone does it and it's a tight game), but to say they introduce no delay is a bit self-absorbed or not being congicant of reality.

Personally, I don't think it's that hard for folks to consistently look at the cards ahead of your action, come up with possible courses of action and be prepared to act when action in on to you. I would assume that most people here are capable of not giving away the farm through tells. But too many folks are "this is how I am" "I'm entitled" or just not trying to be considerate.

If everyone did this every hand, you'd easily get another hand in per down - which I think is worth something. There's a nice asthetic quality to watching the pre-flop action with multiple players take place on a table in under 4 seconds.

And since I already know if the person next to me will chop or not, it doesn't matter if I look at my cards.

Folks could also call out action instantly if calling or raising, so action can continue on after me with folks having to wait for them to fumble with chips. Though I could see the drama effect from "is he calling the raise or re-raising" being appealing.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

Have you ever answered a post without sarcasm?

Jeff

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

Have you ever answererd a genuine concern expressed by me?

Do you really think you aren't delaying the game or is this strawman attack your way of avoiding the answer?

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I wear mirrored oakleys. Every time i'ts up to me I stare at every person who still has cards for 3 seconds. Then I look at my cards. Then I repeat step one. Then I look at my cards again. Repeat step one. Act. Perfect for not giving off tells and putting fear in the eyes of my opponents.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

Ok, sorry if I was nasty - not a particularly good day.

But anyway...no, I don't really think I'm delaying the game. First, most if not all of the people in the games I play do this...I have my hands on the card and peek and do something in an instant - I don't squeeze out the cards. I would say I act quicker than many people who do look at their cards in advance.

If I was the only one who waited, that might be different - I don't hollywood or whatever after looking. Additionally, I feel not looking right away allows me to see things I might not if I looked down and saw 83o and turned my brain off, but that's a separate point.

To each his own - just my take. When people who wait to look slow down the game significantly, I believe it can be a problem.

Jeff

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

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I wait, but I don't think it slows down the game any.

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I usually know what I'm going to do before I look at my cards anyway. Preflop is easy.

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Really? I think cards matter at least a little.

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Yeah, but just a little. Before my turn, I watch the action with me and determine what range of hands with which I'll raise or call (the rest are folds). First, it helps keep me slightly fresh by contemplating various strategies. Second, I still act very quickly. There are times when I pick up a hand like 87s in the CO behind two limpers and have to think a bit, but I don't think that thinking time would change much if I looked beforehand.

Anyway, I do agree that some players must wait until the stars line up before making their decision.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I do both. Sometimes Ill look while cards are being dealt and in the same game Ill wait for my turn before I touch a card. I like to have a paranoid image at the table like everyone is watching everything that I do. Then if I feel like tilting someone I might look at one card, take a breath, pause, try to squeeze out a fart (faking), maybe try to burp while grabbing my stomach, then slowly look at the other card and either muck real fast or stand up take a few steps back and say AWWWWWW EEEEEEENNNNNNNNN!!!!
I usually try to save this play for special times. Feel free to try it.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

[ QUOTE ]
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Whether it be a $100 max buy in no limit game where people are limp-calling reraises with A6s or a $65+15 SNG, I really don't see the point of doing this. OMGZZZTELLZ

It just bothers me when we're seeing like nine hands/month and every single player refuses to look at their cards until it's their turn. Sometimes UTG won't look at his cards without staring the table down...

So is everyone doing this? Only high stakes? Only low? Only NL?

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I'm with you Tom...

I look at my cards as i get them, one at a time, and cap them the same way every time. I don't think I can be giving any tells this way.

By doing this I can follow the action leading up to me KNOWING what my cards are. I think this is a better way to go - you can relate the action to your cards and think about what you're gonna do as the action comes around.

If you wait to look you have to think alot quicker, which I think can lead to bad decisions.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I wait until it's my turn to look at my cards. But the second they're dealt to me I grab them and get them ready to look at. I want the best of both worlds.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

Personally, this drives me nuts too. I take a quick glance and then watch people. I had this guy at a 5/10 o8 game a few weeks ago who took FOREVER on every decision AND he didn't look until it was his turn. What's funny was, he'd take forever, then limp with 67JQ rainbow.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I think it really depends on the player and the game. In my game most everyone does this and the speed of the game is not effected. Experience players make preflop decisions in an instant. Although, newbies do slow down the game doing this. This is probably more what Tom is referring to.

I wait for my turn or one persons action before me to look at my cards always, except when i'm steaming [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] then its one by one as they come out, but this is infrequently. When I realize i'm doing this I know I have to fix some things in my game.

I find it extremely important to be watching the action while it is happening, there are so many tells present in middle limit poker that you will miss while looking at your hole cards while others are looking at theirs.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

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I find it extremely important to be watching the action while it is happening, there are so many tells present in middle limit poker that you will miss while looking at your hole cards while others are looking at theirs.

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It is for this, and not due to any tells of my own (if I'm playing my cards, I always loooove them!), that I wait. Then I look as my neighbor is betting/folding.

If a nit is getting impatient, though, I might dawdle. Nit tilt r00lz.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

The debate whether it's a good idea or not has been done many times before. Without reading the whole thread I would say if you are going to wait to look have the corner of your cards already bent up a bit (standard cupped hands protecting cards from prying eyes, middle fingers holding middle of cards flat, thumb under front corner position) so it will only take an instant to bend them a bit more and see what you have.

~ Rick

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

i agree 100%. this is one of the worst habits that books/tv has instilled in poker players. this wait until its your turn to look thing really slows the game down tremendously. not only does it take a few extra seconds for everyone to look at their cards they also have to spend more time making decisions. many people will try to take their time on their decision after looking at their cards whether they have a decision to make or not just to balance their tells. if they looked at their cards ahead of time they wouldnt need to do this as they already would have had ample time to think about most decisions.

this is one of my huge pet peeves. although i dont say anything about it, it drives me crazy. ive played in games many times where all 10 players at the table (except for me) wait until their turn to view their cards. if 7 people do this each hand and it takes 3 extra seconds to view their cards per person were losing 20 seconds a hand. a hand should only take like 30 seconds in shortstack nl tournaments so with an added 20 second delay, were only going to get to see 3/5 the amount of hands that we should be seeing per hour.

on a brighter note these monkeys that like to wait till their turn often give off huge tells (as you mention) as they think about their action on the spot.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

You'd think ESPN had a camera set up somewhere in the poker rooms because of the length of time that some people take, thinking they are on TV. Out here, we pay time for the NL games. $7 - $8 per half. On top of the dealer counting the checks, money, etc, it all adds up to really slowing the game down.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I wait and I don't care if it slows down the action any [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] this is mostly tournaments and Higher NL cash games. Where its more then 1 -2 dollars to call...

PS I'm not worried so much of them getting a read on me, but I like to pay attention to get a read on them prior to my descions [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

i recommend that you look at your cards immediately in between players looking at their cards. it will probably be a strategic benefit for you. i like to watch my opponents as they look at their cards and viewing my cards before the action gets to me usually does not disable me from ever doing so.

by viewing your cards before the action gets to you, you know exactly what youre looking for in your opponents. if for instance you look down at AQ and see a player raise it in, you will know what to look for to get an idea of his hand range and will likely already have made up your decision before the action gets to you in many situations. this prevents you from giving away valuable information by the time the action gets to you in taking a long time to make your decision.

of course, if the money is very important to you late in a tournament and taking your time increases your edge then by all means take your time. but if youre playing in a tournament all day, wasting time isnt fair to other players. I was watching AJo Go Allin (Alex Jacobs) play the final table at Foxwoods and I had to leave early because he was taking FOREVER on every hand and couldnt stand watching it anymore. i dont fault him for doing so because the money was so substantial but its better if you can avoid that.

Re: Waiting until it\'s your turn to look at your hole cards?
 

I think too many people drink Red Bull at the table.

It is only a good habit to wait to look at your hole cards if you are actually paying attention to others when they look at their cards first. I don't get why so many casual players wait; and while waiting, b.s with their neighbor or stare off into space rather than look at the other players. I guess it is because they see people on TV wait until it is their turn.

If you do wait and watch and really pay attention to the game, it is well worth it to do so when it is your turn and not miss possible tells. Regardless of level. If someone is put off by your waiting, t.s. They should go play 3 card poker -- where the action is fast and furious.