Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Got mine as well!

Bay Area!

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Like to get a mini review from anybody who has the book.

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Agreed.

Is the book Hold'Em centric?

I'm rather intellectually lazy and don't care about the math behind some imaginary poker variants, unless it translates into a better winrate directly at Hold'Em

In other words, I'd like to see the math concepts that are in play as they relate directly to Hold Em.

Obviously one can learn them theorectially then apply them to Hold Em, but like I said, lazy.

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

UATrewqaz, i agree with you and am looking for a review of this book. The co author Chen won 2 wsop's and the other author placed high in a wsop event as well. Hopefully they are on to something/its a wait and see

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Great, after preordering the book three months ago, I received a message from Amazon that it is not available and they scratched it from my list. WTF??

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Gosh. My book is still slated for delivery January 4. Perhaps Amazon's inventory system automatically deletes orders that are unshipped after 3 months and sends an auto-notice out? I'd write to their customer service to confirm if I were you and then order from Conjelco.
Alice

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Yup. Just checked Amazon. They still don't have it.

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

I don't know why they changed the status. As you can tell from this forum people are receiving their books and Amazon should be receiving stock shortly. If I were you (all of you) I'd complain vocally. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Chuck

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

I got mine yesterday (Pittsburgh area)...looks good so far.

J

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Awaiting mine in the UK (ordered through Conjelco a while back). Will post when it arrives.

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

I've had my book for about fifteen minutes so I can't give much of a review. I will point out, however, that:

1. It is 375 pages of small print with small margins, so lots of material here.

2. From what I've read so far, it is well written -- the prose is clear and direct.

3. As you might expect, there is a lot of math. Just flipping through the book, I note that there seem to be equations or graphs on a rather large majority of the pages.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

When are amazon UK likly to get it? How long will it take to ship to the uk direct from conjelco?

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I were you (all of you) I'D REALIZE THAT FREE SHIPPING ISN'T ALL IT'S CRACKED UP TO BE AND I'D ORDER FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.


[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

I'm only 60 pages in, but so far it looks as though this book is everything I thought it would be (and my expectations were high).

A few errata:

Page 15: Hard return after "mutually exclusive" (halfway down the page) shouldn't be there.

Page 33: Just under figure 3.1, there's apparently a space immediately preceding a comma, causing the comma to be the first character in the next line.

Page 37: "Of the 95,000 who have the condition" -- the second time that phrase appears, it should have a "do not" stuck in there.

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Very good explanation of Bayes' Theorem, by the way.

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Nobody with comments on how "hold'em centric" the book is?

Obviously alot of the mathematical concepts they discuss can apply to other forms of poker or even other types of games, but are most of the examples/content centered around Hold'Em?

This question has been asked repeatedly by nobody has addressed it.

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

Here is a quote from Jerrod which appeared in another thread. I would have to say no, the book is not Hold'Em Centric.

[ QUOTE ]
The book is divided into 5 parts:

I) Basics
Covers basic probability and statistical concepts, as well as Bayes' theorem, inference from observed data.

II) Exploitive play
Covers odds, reading hands, reading strategies, a little bit about data mining, playing accurately in cards exposed situations, hand vs distribution situations, and distribution vs distribution situations.

III) Optimal play
Introduces game theory, concept of the nemesis, and then solves many different poker-like toy games. Concepts touched on by these toy games are:

--Jam-or-fold (contains solution to HU JoF NL holdem)
--betting and bluffing ratios
--card removal (AKQ game)
--NL bet sizing
--all manner of [0,1] games
--multi-street games without draws - bet sizing across multiple streets
--multi-street games with open and closed draws - also exposed hand vs known distribution play on turn and river.

IV) Risk
Covers risk of ruin calculations, also risk of ruin based on a sample (includes the uncertainty of the win rate). Covers Kelly utility, game selection (CE choice of limits), portfolio theory, and backing agreements.

V) Other Topics
Covers tournaments, both necessary adjustments (based on the theory of doubling up) and also statistical inference based on tournament payout structures and results.
Covers multiplayer games, collusive alliances, and so on.

--jerrod

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

I'm about 100 pages in, and my soul is owned. Very thorough. While most poker books read like a collection of short essays, this is more like a text book. Life is grand!

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]

The book is divided into 5 parts:

I) Basics
Covers basic probability and statistical concepts, as well as Bayes' theorem, inference from observed data.

II) Exploitive play
Covers odds, reading hands, reading strategies, a little bit about data mining, playing accurately in cards exposed situations, hand vs distribution situations, and distribution vs distribution situations.

III) Optimal play
Introduces game theory, concept of the nemesis, and then solves many different poker-like toy games. Concepts touched on by these toy games are:

--Jam-or-fold (contains solution to HU JoF NL holdem)
--betting and bluffing ratios
--card removal (AKQ game)
--NL bet sizing
--all manner of [0,1] games
--multi-street games without draws - bet sizing across multiple streets
--multi-street games with open and closed draws - also exposed hand vs known distribution play on turn and river.

IV) Risk
Covers risk of ruin calculations, also risk of ruin based on a sample (includes the uncertainty of the win rate). Covers Kelly utility, game selection (CE choice of limits), portfolio theory, and backing agreements.

V) Other Topics
Covers tournaments, both necessary adjustments (based on the theory of doubling up) and also statistical inference based on tournament payout structures and results.
Covers multiplayer games, collusive alliances, and so on.

--jerrod


[/ QUOTE ]


You know you are a poker/math geek when this makes you pop a chubby.

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody with comments on how "hold'em centric" the book is?

Obviously alot of the mathematical concepts they discuss can apply to other forms of poker or even other types of games, but are most of the examples/content centered around Hold'Em?

[/ QUOTE ]
If I understand what you are asking, I don't know how to answer. The concepts in the book apply to all poker games, not just hold 'em. But most of the examples taken from actual poker games (and not from artificial games like the AKQ game or the [0,1] game) refer to hold 'em. Also, the "Jam or Fold" game uses NLHE hands, and the case study -- a short section on using game theory to formulate a playing strategy -- uses hold 'em.

But the largest part of the book does not focus on or use examples from any particular poker game. So while the book is more hold 'em-centric than it is Padugi-centric or Razz-centric, it is not in fact hold 'em-centric.

The Mathematics of Poker Errata
 

Maurile,

Thanks for pointing these out. Finding them all is a very difficult job.

As it says in the front of the book, an errata list will be maintained at http://www.conjelco.com/mathofpoker/

These entries will kick it off as soon as I have a chance to put them up.

Best,

Chuck

Re: The Mathematics of Poker Errata
 

Any idea when Borders or other retailers could have it on the shelf?

Re: The Mathematics of Poker Errata
 

on page 51 last paragraph doesn't make sense to me. it says, that in 30-60 game "There is $75 in the pot...Now AK bets $30...So from an immediate pot odds standpoint, B needs to be getting better than $75 to $30 (or 40%) to win the pot." his pot odds are $105 to $30 and the phrase "to win the pot" doesn't seem right.

shouldn't it say something like "the pot odds are 105 to 30 or 3.5 to 1, but the odds of making his hand are 37 to 8 or 4.625 to 1 so he shouldn't call."

Re: Good News/Bad News/Good News/Amazon
 

Well, I wrote to them stating that I believed they do now have it in stock and asked if their delivery date would change as a result. Here is the answer I received.
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for writing to us at Amazon.com.

Please allow me to extend my most sincere apologies for any
frustration this matter has caused.

I have researched our website and found that the item "The
Mathematics of Poker (Paperback)" is currently unavailable. We will
e-mail you when this title becomes available.

I'm sorry we are unable to be more precise about the availability of
the item. I realize that, this has delayed the estimated delivery
date.

The availability and shipping time frames listed on our web site are
estimates, not guarantees. While we do our best to adhere to these
estimates, our inventory is constantly changing based on information
we receive directly from our suppliers.

Occasionally, unexpected fluctuations in supply will add time to our
original availability estimate. I do understand that such changes
can be frustrating for you.

We are very sorry for any inconvenience that this situation has
caused and would like to thank you for your understanding and
patience.

Thank you for shopping at Amazon.com.


Please let us know if this e-mail resolved your question

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess they run on the assumption that the average customer is stupid and cannot search the website on their own. I ran on the assumption that they would have more info at their disposal than I had. Which proves the point of the old adage about Ass u me.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker Errata
 

Page 75: In the second equation on the page, "p(Y wins 6th street)" appears twice, but the second time it should be "p(Y misses on 6th street)". (Y will miss 34/42 of the time, which is consistent with the next equation.)

Page 77: "X still has a clear call, getting more than 3 to 1 from the pot" should be "Y still has a clear call, getting more than 3 to 1 from the pot."

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

I got my copy a few days ago. I wish I hadn't hit the mathwall in freshman calc, and i also wish my brain was 20 years younger. I find myself skipping most of the equations and just triple reading the concepts.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

My copy just arrived (UK from Conjelco)
WOOHOO!!!!!!!!
Looks astonishing.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

What will be faster ? Waiting for amazon or ordering from Conjelco ?
I live in Poland and Conjelco doesnt have "international priority" shipping option and I am worried the shipment will take weeks to get here [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

Well, right now it looks like anything is likely to be faster than Amazon. They are still predicting a ship date of January 4 and that, btw, is NOT free shipping. While I probably won't get to read it until after the holidays, wife and mother that I am, I'm OK with it but if I were the publisher I'd have a problem with AMazon. The book was #733 on the Amazon list the week it came out. That's alot of sales to play games with IMHO.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, right now it looks like anything is likely to be faster than Amazon. They are still predicting a ship date of January 4 and that, btw, is NOT free shipping. While I probably won't get to read it until after the holidays, wife and mother that I am, I'm OK with it but if I were the publisher I'd have a problem with AMazon. The book was #733 on the Amazon list the week it came out. That's alot of sales to play games with IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I've never had a problem ordering from Amazon before, but this is pretty bad to not send out e-mails or try to clarify the situation on their website. A lag time of a month is way too long when other people are getting their grubby mitts on this long-awaited book.

FWIW, Amazon now has private sellers clucking the book albeit for a $10 higher price. I bit.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, right now it looks like anything is likely to be faster than Amazon. They are still predicting a ship date of January 4 and that, btw, is NOT free shipping. While I probably won't get to read it until after the holidays, wife and mother that I am, I'm OK with it but if I were the publisher I'd have a problem with AMazon. The book was #733 on the Amazon list the week it came out. That's alot of sales to play games with IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I've never had a problem ordering from Amazon before, but this is pretty bad to not send out e-mails or try to clarify the situation on their website. A lag time of a month is way too long when other people are getting their grubby mitts on this long-awaited book.

FWIW, Amazon now has private sellers clucking the book albeit for a $10 higher price. I bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until a day or two ago my copy, pre-ordered on July 14th according to Amazon, was showing a 12/5 shipping date. They'd periodically emailed notifying me of an update that I'd have to approve as the date slid forward. I checked about an hour ago and saw that the date had changed to February although I hadn't seen an email. Five minutes to cancel Amazon and order from Conjelco. An email verifying the cancellation came almost immediately. Five minutes later I got a confirmation from Conjelco and finally the email from Amazon about the newest delay.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

When I have pre-ordered from Amazon in the past, it was quicker to cancel my pre-order when the book came out and place a new order than it was to wait for them to fill my pre-order.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, right now it looks like anything is likely to be faster than Amazon. They are still predicting a ship date of January 4 and that, btw, is NOT free shipping. While I probably won't get to read it until after the holidays, wife and mother that I am, I'm OK with it but if I were the publisher I'd have a problem with AMazon. The book was #733 on the Amazon list the week it came out. That's alot of sales to play games with IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have it backwards.
How long was this delayed by the publisher? You don't think Amazon has a right to be upset at a 6 month delay?
Now Conjelco is telling us to talk to Amazon. Why doesn't he get on the line to Amazon himself? If Amazon is losing sales, isn't he?

So how did all the other sellers get their supply and not Amazon?

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

Hey, I can't find this book on the order form!

How do I order it from Conjelco?

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

It's on the order form (left column) but since it's not a 2+2 publication it's down in the "from other publishers" area.

Chuck

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

Yes, it was delayed. I have talked to Amazon directly. They know that the book is out. This will be a self-resolving problem in that Amazon should have stock within the next 2-3 days.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

wow, amazon just revised my Dec 7 - 9th delivery date to the following:

Items not yet shipped:
Delivery estimate: February 15, 2007 - February 17, 2007 1 of: The Mathematics of Poker
Sold by: Amazon.com


Ouch. This was quickly followed by a cancellation and an order placed with Conjelco.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker/ Amazon
 

[ QUOTE ]
Items not yet shipped:
Delivery estimate: December 14, 2006 - December 16, 2006

* 1 of: The Mathematics of Poker
Sold by: Amazon.com


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

Heh... read through that part twice, swear it wasn't there. Anyway, found it, ordered it. Thanks.

Re: The Mathematics of Poker
 

You're doing okay! I just previewed my Amazon Delivery Estimate (I ordered it on Nov. 30th with 7 other poker books [2 Ray Zee, 2 Sklansky, 3 Malmuth, 1 Hilger and 1 Navarro]) and found out that the delivery estimate for the Chen book is between February 14th and February 16th while the dates for the other 7 are between December 8th and 12th. I'm so excited! Now I have plenty of time to take that advanced calc class before the book is delivered. And, as an added benefit, this whole silly poker craze will probably have wound down by then, or --if not-- the Taliban's law on money transfers will have kicked in. Thanks, Amazon.