Contrast Dynasty\'s Story To This One
 

http://tinyurl.com/398px

Obviously, Negreanu, Ivey, Juanda, & Cunningham are far out on the right side of the bell curve, as far as starting out primarily as tourney pros. And they all also play live; in fact DN & PI now mostly play live, and JJ & AC are 'semi-retired' from poker, supposedly.

Ted Forrest played mid-limit before winning the three bracelets in '93, then used the money to move up(UP!). Howard Lederer has written extensively about focusing more on tourneys now, which has worked out nicely for him. Of course, he's a pretty good player to begin with. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

As for TJ, Hellmuth, Men, Scotty, Miami John, the few, the proud, I guess. Look what happened to Huck. Daniel recently wrote (my paraphrase)that Chris Ferguson was the only self-financed, successful, full-time tourney pro over the last ten years.

Good thing, as he doesn't exactly have anything else to fall back on! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Ni pos, Bryan. Obviously, you got VERY lucky right at the beginning, but three years ain't luck.

"If I hadn't played in card games, I'd prolly be a CFO in accounting..." [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Great post Dynasty!

Now if only the Sox could win it all this year, life would be complete.

Thanks for all your help.

Peace,
Joe Tall

P.S. - Stud Games In Vegas
 

The other weekend, F-Su, I played 15 & 20 stud at B for 3 days(mostly 20), 5-6 hours a day, btwn 1pm - 8pm. Very small sample, of course, AND I'm a MUCH better stud player than HE player. I can't play anything but HE at home(great games), and hadn't played anything but HE in LV for years.

But those games seemed soooo much better than the 20 HE at M and 15 HE @ B. Not even close. Not a wide selection of stud games, of course. The 40, 60 and/or 80 stud games looked good, too, but those are big steps up for me.

What am I missing? How are the day in, day out stud games in LV, inc. the 5-10 at M? I remember in the mid '90s that there would be three-four, 5-10 stud games at M, as well as rammin' 10, 15, & 20 games.

Like Biggie said, things done changed. What's it like now?

I'd also like to hear about stud & stud8 games in L.A., A.C., or anywhere else; limits, # of tables, rakes-collections, etc. Thanks.

Re: Contrast Dynasty\'s Story To This One
 

friend that dealt at the wsop said tj is backed/broke, too many sportsbetting and cash game losses

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you see yourself pokering for the rest of your life?

[/ QUOTE ]

I see myself playing for the indefinite future. It's hard to know how long that will be. After all, three years and one month ago, I never would have imagined where I am today.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I've always wanted to ask you, what's the worst run you've had (in terms of bb) since you've been in vegas?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to go through my records to know the exact answer. However, a couple weeks ago, I sent a PM to Clarkmeister which said something like this.

Shoot me. -96 big bets in my last three sessions.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious what your friends and family thought of you moving to Vegas based on playing so little.

[/ QUOTE ]

My friends were just shocked. Because I made the decision so fast, I didn't see some of them before I left. I told them through e-mails. I actually made my final decision to move to Vegas just 7-10 days before doing it.

I did not tell my family exactly what I was doing in Las Vegas until I returned to Massachusetts nearly a year later. I didn't want them to worry about it. My parents knew that I had considerable money to live on so paying the bills wasn't something they would be concerned about.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can you imagine that if you knew how little you really "knew" back then about poker you'd have chosen the same path? A professional with 19hrs of 1-3 stud huh? ROFLMAO

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there was much that could convince me that I wouldn't succeed. While running chess tournaments and acting as President of the Boylston Chess Club in Boston, I interacted with quite a few chess professionals. So, I had some understanding of the effort it would take to do this.

However, I was prepared to fail. I decided before I left for Vegas that if it didn't work that I would just have to regard it as a 1 or 2 year super-vacation. Then, I'd go back to the regualar workforce and move on.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
19 hours of 1-3? Man were you lucky. I would've put the line at least at 1000-1 that you'd have been a dealer within 4 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why lucky?

There was 0% chance of me being a dealer.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
Btw, what happened to Derek?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's still plays and still reads the forums. He just doesn't post much anymore.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since you knew so little about poker when you moved to Vegas, did you even know that it was possible to earn a living from playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I intuitively knew that it could be done although I certainly had never heard the phrase "one big bet per hour". I must have also heard something about professional poker players existing but I don't remember anything specific.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't help asking though: do you enjoy it? [ QUOTE ]


I've enjoyed playing more in the past three or four months than just about anytime.

Re: P.S. - Stud Games In Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
What am I missing? How are the day in, day out stud games in LV, inc. the 5-10 at M? I remember in the mid '90s that there would be three-four, 5-10 stud games at M, as well as rammin' 10, 15, & 20 games.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can usually find one 5-10 stud game at the Mirage almost anytime. The 10-20 game is sporadic. The Mirage never has any bigger stud games anymore. The Bellagio will usually have both a 15-30 and 20-40 game but rarely two of either.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Very inspiring and entertaining post Dynasty - thanks for sharing.

I've played chess for years informally, but fairly seriously, and poker for one year. It's been great having the challenge and the extra cash. I'm not sure if I am cut out just to up and move like you did, but I have been working and 8-5 for a year after graduating college, and it really ain't pretty. I'll be in Vegas in a couple weeks for vacation (first time) to check out the scene.

thanks again..

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Well, of course, you may have chosen some other job to pay the rent. But, poker dealer is by far the most popular choice amongst failed poker pros. And no matter how much talent and intelligence you have, with only 19 hours of practice there was every reason to believe you would go broke before becoming a long term winner. Clearly you must be pretty good to begin with, and you got lucky to not hit any bad streaks early on.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: P.S. - Stud Games In Vegas
 

I envy your discipline, beacuse I just don't have it. Well, not yet, anyway, but I don't think it's something that can be taught. You either have it or you don't.

Just wanted to drop you a quick thank you for helping me out when I started playing over two years ago.

There must be days you don't want to play, but you do because it has become your job. Do you find your play suffers when you feel this way? How do you keep the game interesting and fun after so many sessions?

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Great post. I'm sure I don't even begin to grasp the level of discipline that it has taken for you to get where you are right now, but I have thought a lot about making a move similar to yours over the past 6 months and your story makes the idea even more intriguing.

Of course, my recent marriage and desire to start a family one of these years will likely leave the poker life in the fantasy category, but I still wonder whether I could make it work and I have a ton of questions about the lifestyle, miscellaneous costs, taxes, etc. Would love to pick your brain and hear how someone like yourself handles the nitty gritty of everyday life out there (PM me if you wouldn't mind discussing some of these types of things).

Anyway, thank you for sharing your story and congratulations on your success! Hope to meet you and some of the other Vegas locals when I'm out there next week.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

I think Dynasty's point is he had enough money to live on for a year or more and would not have allowed himself to "drift" into a job like dealing. Instead, it sounds like his default plan was to return to some form of corporate life, possibly using his accounting skills.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

You sound like a real whack job. Freaking out and leaving a job over a trivial agreement that means nothing. Moving to Vegas to be a pro with no experience. Not telling anybody about it until you're gone.

Makes for a good story, though! And congratulations that it has worked out for you.

eastbay

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

awesome post! after just a year of about 25 hours a week of online poker i found myself burned out and am on a 2 month break. i still read the forums and will be playing again in a month or 2 when i start WANTING to play again but i have a new respect for guys who can play for 40+ hours a week for years.

if its too personal just dont answer but if you dont mind my asking-How big of a bankroll did you take to Vegas? Sounds like you were not hurting to make money quickly...thanks

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Wonderful post Bryan. I see we have another accountant/ poker player.

I hear that I just missed you at the Mirage last night. I got there about 6:30 PM. I hope that we can hook up sometime before next Tues.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Dynasty,

I didn't read all the posts in this thread so I may have missed it, but have you ventured into the online arena with any regularity?

If not, why?

Thanks for a great story!

Re: Contrast Dynasty\'s Story To This One
 

Craps is his big problem.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas..??
 

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] so

what are you running away from dyn??

gl

gr8 post

gl [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: Contrast Dynasty\'s Story To This One
 

I figured out the negative EV of tourney play withing a few times of seeing the payouts and quality of the fields. Everyone who places pretty much is decent so where is the dead money, and the hotels and casinos don't pay for your travel and entry fees it's a total scam. You are better off rounding at the highest limit game that you can consistently beat than entering in these tourneys. Ie if you win 10K many times you just marginally win after airfare and hotel and food costs plus rent where you live.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Really enjoyed your post...Funny, but I moved to Vegas around 3 years ago (for different reasons), and I feel so behind. I think I've played with you once (I believe it was a 10-20 game at the Mirage and met Dave at Boulder Station.

It's great to get an insight of the mind of the professional poker player...

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Just curious, what was your USCF rating? I love chess, but
the few times I have played it, it didn't go well. I play some online now. But I like to follow the grandmasters and
I like reading about the game--I have a collection of about 150 chess books.

Now to Vegas. It's a tough place to make a living. I feel better off in Southern California, although I might eventually move back there this fall. You have to have a lot of discipline to make in Vegas, somrhting which I lacked in the 1980s, when I tried it there.

Here's to the next three years. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

One critical point left out?
 

What kind of bankroll did you come with?

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Greg(FosilMan)
[ QUOTE ]
And no matter how much talent and intelligence you have, with only 19 hours of practice there was every reason to believe you would go broke before becoming a long term winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

punker:
[ QUOTE ]
What kind of bankroll did you come with?

[/ QUOTE ]

With the bankroll I came to Vegas with, there was absolutely no chance I could bust out playing 1-5 stud or low-limit stud/hold 'em. I had more than enough money to cover more than a year's worth of liviing expenses.

Re: P.S. - Stud Games In Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
There must be days you don't want to play, but you do because it has become your job. Do you find your play suffers when you feel this way?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't play when I don't feel like it. I don't put in a full 40 hour work week.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious, what was your USCF rating?

[/ QUOTE ]

I topped out a little above 1800 just when I moved to Vegas. I was actually just starting to seriously study chess when I made the move.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

congrats on your success so far. really terrific story and my nomination for post of the year (POTY).

i'm hopefully on my way to a semi-similar type of success story via online-poker income.
january of 2003 i didnt know how to play hold-em, didnt know if a full-house beat a flush and didnt know what the terms 'muck, nuts, utg, turn or river' meant. but i did know what 1BB/hr meant from my time spent on blackjack card-counting and the BJ21.com boards so maybe i was a step ahead of you there.

my progress hasn't been quite so rapid, but i'm getting there.

my USCF is around 1400...but i've knocked off the occasional 1800 in my time (so watch out)!! havent played much chess since taking up poker though so there's no way my game is very strong now.

if/when i stabalize my income a bit more via poker i look forward to spending more time back with the 64 squares with the occasional chess-club appearance or weekend tournament.

curious if you still play chess very much (perhaps you mentioned it but i didnt notice). i know there are a couple of big tourneys in LV...i think the bigger one is around XMas, New Year's.


congrats again...great story.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Just wanted to de-lurk a minute to thank you for posting this, along with everything else you post. I, like you, played "real" poker for the first time in the 1-3 stud games at Foxwoods in April 2001. While I haven't made the leap you've taken, it's been an exciting, fun, and profitable experience for me as well.

What I most want to say, though, is that despite the fact that we've been playing poker seriously for the exact same amount of time, I don't think there's anyone who's been more helpful in improving my game. Your posts here are the nuts, and I've taken more from them than probably 80% of the poker books I've read.

I'm moving to Vegas in August to begin law school at UNLV; I don't expect to have much time to play during the next 3 years, but maybe I'll see you at the tables.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Best. Post. Ever.

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

Fantastic story. It proves that in poker a bright guy can get real good real fast.

My only advice would be to listen to pokerbabe and wear those suits.

Clarkmeister should right a companion piece (or I could write one on my fifteen year decent into mediocrity [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

~ Rick

Re: Three Years in Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fantastic story. It proves that in poker a bright guy can get real good real fast.

My only advice would be to listen to pokerbabe and wear those suits.

Clarkmeister should right a companion piece (or I could write one on my fifteen year decent into mediocrity [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

you should, i think a lot of us are striving to reach mediocrity in poker. i enjoy reading these, and dynasty's was great. i always wanted to know how everyone got kicked off into their poker lives.

worst session?
 

sorry to ask this, but did you embellish a little bit in your post??

Don't get me wrong, i love to read about these kind of stories and live vicariously through them, since i have a family and kids to care for out east here, so i don't have the option to pick up and leave, but sometimes i do wish i could give it a try for aqn extended period.

Anyways, you mentioned one of your worst sessions in this thread as being -96 big bets for three sessions......

sorry, but if you have been playing professionally in vegas for three years, that should not stand out as one of the "worst" sessions. heck, to lose 100 bigbets in just ONE session is a really bad day, but not something most pros would describe as extrodinary.

For example, 100 big bet loss at 10-20 (my game of choice), is a $2000 hit. Its definitely a very bad day, where the fish caught their draws, and very few of my hands hold up, but it happens, even to me, who is definitely not playing pro hours here. And you are talking about 3 sessions to accumulate that loss....


Either you are very very good, play with marked cards (kidding), or the law of statistical variance has not caught up to you yet.

Re: worst session?
 

"Either you are very very good, play with marked cards (kidding), or the law of statistical variance has not caught up to you yet. "

Or maybe his sessions aren't as long as yours.

EDIT: You know what, I've never had a -100 BB session either now that I think of it. 75BB's, yes, but not 100. And I play way longer sessions than Dynasty with a higher standard deviation.

Re: worst session?
 

Playing live, having a session near that is very rare. You get about 1/8th of the hands, and often get demoralized breaking the 50 BB mark and just call it a day. Online its easy, you have 2-4 tables going, you just click more chips and get more chips. A few hours later, when you realize you just not gonna get back to even, you look at the carnage. ugh. I've lost 63BBs once live and its my only loss over 50. Online I've had a couple of sessions that nearly broke 100 BBs and a number of -50 BB sessions.

Re: worst session?
 

i'm sure one of the facts that play into this is that i play online, and shorthanded, so the speed of the number of hands played, along with the variance is way bigger that live play.

however, 100 BB's over the course of 3 sessions i find hard to believe even in BM cardroom to be that significant.

BTW, are you playing in WSOP?

Re: worst session?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm sure one of the facts that play into this is that i play online, and shorthanded, so the speed of the number of hands played, along with the variance is way bigger that live play.


[/ QUOTE ]

That definitely explains it. Because you referred to "marked cards" I assumed you were talking about live play.

As for the WSOP, I don't play tournaments, and at this point, I don't see myself taking the effort to learn. I've had a friend offer to buy me a seat out of his pocket and split any profit 50/50 and I turned it down.