Which is harder: LSAT, MCAT, GMAT, GRE, other?

[Redmen62]

For those who have taken any (or all) of these exams, which would you consider to be the most difficult? Obviously a tough question since they test different things, particularly the MCAT, but opinions would be interesting nonetheless.

MCAT vs. LSAT has been discussed before on law school sites I frequent, but those discussions seem likely to be biased (although I got the impression most considered the MCAT more challenging even there).

I've taken the LSAT and know a little about the MCAT. The other two I know little about and may or may not be approprately included in the discussion.

[Art Vandelay]

The GRE is a glorified SAT and not that difficult IMO. I have not studied for nor thought about taking the others.

[miajag]

MCAT by far. The rest are just general intelligence/aptitude tests like the SAT; you actually have to know stuff for the MCAT.

[prohornblower]

The ARE is very difficult, and deserves some appreciation.

[Redmen62]

What the [censored] is the ARE?

[jalexand42]

[ QUOTE ]
MCAT by far. The rest are just general intelligence/aptitude tests like the SAT; you actually have to know stuff for the MCAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

That test was a f'ing bitch. I've crushed standardized tests all my life and I don't remember thinking any of the questions were easy.

[prohornblower]

[ QUOTE ]
What the [censored] is the ARE?

[/ QUOTE ]

Architectural Registration Exams

[aeest400]

I've taken the MCAT, LSAT, and GRE. I did about the same on each of them. The MCAT required the most studying and would certainly be hardest for someone coming in cold. The science questions aren't hard, but you need a pretty good grasp of the fundamentals in a number of areas (bio, chem, ochem, physics). I think the logic-type problems on the LSAT were a bit harder then those on the GRE. GMAT, meh.

[gusmahler]

I don't actually remember which was harder. But based on my scores, the GRE was much easier than the LSAT. Didn't take the others. The GRE Engineering exam was surprisingly difficult, though.

[SBR]

This is all second hand as I've only taken the LSAT but I think the order would be

MCAT > LSAT > GMAT > GRE.

The ARE isn't similar to these at all, it's a professional licence exam (similar to the BAR).

[prohornblower]

What do all of these tests encompass?

I'm not that familiar with them.

How long do they take...how long do people study for them...how many tests are there...etc.?

[sushijerk]

MCAT is the hardest by a mile.

Frankly I think most people with a college education and some prep work can BS at least a 150 on the LSATs. And the general GREs are like repeat SATs. Unless you got dumber in college, I don't see how GREs can be hard.

[SackUp]

MCAT requires actual knowledge.

The rest you just need to know how to take tests.

[DemonDeac]

MCAT by far

even though i didnt take it, i watched my friends study for it

i took the LSAT and i didnt prepare as hard as they did

although its hard to compared the two because one tests knowledge while one tests intelligence

[Marko Schmarko]

more than anything they're all relative to the other people taking them.

Most pre-law kids don't try very hard.

Most people that are going for phDs don't try that hard until they're in grad school [vast over-generalization.. obviously.]

Pre-med kids work their [censored] asses off every day of their undergrads, and they study for the MCATs like it's their job.

Since it's weighted based on the performance of the others that took it.. it's really hard.

[prohornblower]

[ QUOTE ]
MCAT by far

even though i didnt take it, i watched my friends study for it


[/ QUOTE ]

How many exams are there, how long are the exams, how long do they study for, and how long does the whole process take? (Begin study for MCAT to passing MCAT)

[MelchyBeau]

the physics subject GRE is pretty difficult

[prohornblower]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MCAT by far

even though i didnt take it, i watched my friends study for it


[/ QUOTE ]

How many exams are there, how long are the exams, how long do they study for, and how long does the whole process take? (Begin study for MCAT to passing MCAT)

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I've asked twice now for more info. about the MCATs and nobody has answered I will go ahead and say that the ARE is the hardest exam, by a "mile".

[mmbt0ne]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MCAT by far

even though i didnt take it, i watched my friends study for it


[/ QUOTE ]

How many exams are there, how long are the exams, how long do they study for, and how long does the whole process take? (Begin study for MCAT to passing MCAT)

[/ QUOTE ]

The MCAT is one exam with 3 sections. If you want to talk about the Boards they have to take later, that's a different issue.

The AREs sound like a professional exam, not something that you take in order to get into graduate school, which would make it a completely different category all together.

[DemonDeac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MCAT by far

even though i didnt take it, i watched my friends study for it


[/ QUOTE ]

How many exams are there, how long are the exams, how long do they study for, and how long does the whole process take? (Begin study for MCAT to passing MCAT)

[/ QUOTE ]

its an 8 hr test
my friends took it mid april and began studying christmas break
theres 2 exams a year i think. u only need to take one.

its tests u on every science. bio. chem. physics

[prohornblower]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MCAT by far

even though i didnt take it, i watched my friends study for it


[/ QUOTE ]

How many exams are there, how long are the exams, how long do they study for, and how long does the whole process take? (Begin study for MCAT to passing MCAT)

[/ QUOTE ]

The MCAT is one exam with 3 sections. If you want to talk about the Boards they have to take later, that's a different issue.

The AREs sound like a professional exam, not something that you take in order to get into graduate school, which would make it a completely different category all together.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, my mistake. As I've stated, I'm not that familiar with those tests. Thanks for explaining.

Yes, the ARE is the architect's exam to become licensed (along with 3 yrs. minimum internship, and a 5 year degree from an accredited university).

FWIW, the ARE is composed of 9 separate 3-5 hour exams.

3 graphic exams: Site Planning, Building Planning, Building Technology

6 multiple choice exams: Pre-Design, General Structures, Lateral Forces, Mechanical & Electrical Systems, Materials & Methods, Construction Documents & Services

Most people study for at least a solid month for each test. The soonest you could pass all 9 would likely be between 9-12 months, IF you didn't fail 1 single test. If you fail an exam you have to wait 6 months to retake. You have 5 years to pass all 9. If you do not, it starts over. For most people it takes 2 years to pass all of them. Each test costs about $150

It's teh suck. My friends are in the midst of it, and I'm holding out on it. I disagree with the way they grade it. Each of the 9 exams is broken into sections, and if you fail one section, you fail the whole exam, which to me is BS. The system is not fair, and I believe is primarily set up for beaurocrats to make $$$.

[DemonDeac]

prohornblower,

thats not a standardized test, is it?

thats like comparing the BAR to the LSAT

[OptimusPrime]

[ QUOTE ]
This is all second hand as I've only taken the LSAT but I think the order would be

MCAT > LSAT > GMAT > GRE.



[/ QUOTE ]

As someone who teaches all of these tests, this is pretty much spot on. The MCAT requires a lot of actual knowledge that you actually learn in college. The LSAT requires certain reasoning skills that may have devloped in college. The GMAT reruires basic math skills, some grammar rules, and lower level reasoning skills. The GRE is the same as the SAT ~10 years ago except the math may be easier and the vocabulary is ridiculously harder.

[OptimusPrime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MCAT by far

even though i didnt take it, i watched my friends study for it


[/ QUOTE ]

How many exams are there, how long are the exams, how long do they study for, and how long does the whole process take? (Begin study for MCAT to passing MCAT)

[/ QUOTE ]

its an 8 hr test
my friends took it mid april and began studying christmas break
theres 2 exams a year i think. u only need to take one.

its tests u on every science. bio. chem. physics

[/ QUOTE ]

The MCAT does test bio, chem, physics. It also has a verbal reasoning section that's basically reading passages as well as an essay section.

Yes, the test lasts approximately 8 hours.

Yes, most people who want to get a respectable score study for about 3-6 months before taking the test.

[prohornblower]

[ QUOTE ]
prohornblower,

thats not a standardized test, is it?

thats like comparing the BAR to the LSAT

[/ QUOTE ]

It's applied knowledge and reasoning and whatnot. So I wouldn't call it standardized. If you are a genius you could go in cold and deduce a lot, but you still need to have a large applied knowledge base going in.

A typical question would be something like:

A client wants to build a 2-storey home in Phoenix, AZ
the best option would be
A) Orient the home to capture natural breezes
B) Face all windows to the North
C) Plant tall trees around the Southern and Western facade
D) Implement a roof pond

Thats what sucks about it, they will give you several "good" options, but you have to deduce which one is the "best".

[SBR]

[ QUOTE ]
prohornblower,

thats not a standardized test, is it?

thats like comparing the BAR to the LSAT

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI a friend’s cousin who was an Architect then switched to law later on in life said he found the BAR to be more difficult than the ARE. But to become an Architect was more work/equally difficult to becoming a lawyer.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
the physics subject GRE is pretty difficult

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Subject GRE's bear no resemblance whatsoever to the general GRE's, which do strike me as pretty pointless. If you answer 50% of the questions on the physics GRE you've probably done pretty well.

[oneeye13]

[ QUOTE ]

Pre-med kids cheat their [censored] asses off every day of their undergrads, and they study for the MCATs like it's their job.


[/ QUOTE ]

[davebwell]

No idea which is harder. I've taken the GRE and LSAT. LSAT was in 91 or 92 right after the scoring changed. I barely studied and scored 168. I spent the entire summer solving books of logic puzzles and managed to kill the logical reasoning section. After working for about 7 years, I decided to go to grad school in economics and took the GRE after taking some upper level math courses like Real Analysis, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations. I took the test at the last minute and scored well. Quant 800, Analytical (old one no writing sample involved) 770, Verbal (let's just say the monkey did better).

I thought these two were really easy.

[jalexand42]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Pre-med kids cheat their [censored] asses off every day of their undergrads, and they study for the MCATs like it's their job.


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Not all of us did, but you are right - a TON of the pre-meds cheat their way through and get blasted by the MCAT.

Just to echo the above comments - the MCAT is like a comprehensive final exam on 4 years of pre-med curriculum, it is a freaking hard test. I would dare argue that it is harder than any professional test where you can take each test one at a time and retake them if you fail. The MCAT is also curved, so you are in competition against all the other people taking the test at the time.

[SackUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
prohornblower,

thats not a standardized test, is it?

thats like comparing the BAR to the LSAT

[/ QUOTE ]

It's applied knowledge and reasoning and whatnot. So I wouldn't call it standardized. If you are a genius you could go in cold and deduce a lot, but you still need to have a large applied knowledge base going in.

A typical question would be something like:

A client wants to build a 2-storey home in Phoenix, AZ
the best option would be
A) Orient the home to capture natural breezes
B) Face all windows to the North
C) Plant tall trees around the Southern and Western facade
D) Implement a roof pond

Thats what sucks about it, they will give you several "good" options, but you have to deduce which one is the "best".

[/ QUOTE ]

clearly a roof pond - though a roof river is preferred.

[wacki]

I threw up TWICE during my computerized GRE and still aced it. I might of had 2 hours of sleep the night before.

-drunk wacki

[7ontheline]

I've taken the MCAT, and a number of friends have taken LSAT/GRE/GMAT. Paging through their test review books makes it very obvious that the MCAT is hardest by a mile. It's been said in this thread many times already, but if you're good at taking tests you can do well on LSAT/GRE/GMAT. You need to study hard to do well on MCAT.

[Redmen62]

[ QUOTE ]
The MCAT is also curved, so you are in competition against all the other people taking the test at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This area is what got me thinking about the topic- I have two acquaintances who scored 99th percentile plus on the MCAT, which would seem like a monumental achievement given the talent pool. In person, however, they really don't seem like ubergeniuses, to say the least.

I scored 99th percentile plus on the LSAT, and while I agree the talent pool is far more impressive for MCAT near the median, I think things at the top may not be so clear.

[Shajen]

Other:

CCIE exam

(I'm taking the written test today, have two years, assuming I pass it, to take the lab. It's the toughest IT certification exam by far)

[NobodysFreak]

All,

Anyone else hear that the MCAT is about to get a whole lot easier? My buddy recently took the test and told me that it's changing from an 8 hour written exam (meaning pen and paper) to a four hour computerized exam.

His reasoning was that basically the MCAT has just become one large artificial barrier to entry that really has no bearing on how well one will perform in medical school and that there's a global shortage of doctors because of it.

[jalexand42]

[ QUOTE ]
Other:

CCIE exam

(I'm taking the written test today, have two years, assuming I pass it, to take the lab. It's the toughest IT certification exam by far)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this thing is a bitch too, also very full of practical knowledge. CCIE and CISSP are the two hardest IT related certifications.

[jalexand42]

[ QUOTE ]
All,

Anyone else hear that the MCAT is about to get a whole lot easier? My buddy recently took the test and told me that it's changing from an 8 hour written exam (meaning pen and paper) to a four hour computerized exam.

His reasoning was that basically the MCAT has just become one large artificial barrier to entry that really has no bearing on how well one will perform in medical school and that there's a global shortage of doctors because of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The barrier to medical school isn't the MCAT really - that is a barrier to prove your ability to learn & apply knowledge in a practical way - becuase the questions aren't simply what is x+y, they are application questions. No different than all the other components a medical school wants to see from a candidate - grades, activities, references, etc.

The barrier to medical school is the fact that it takes 7-8 years of your life, you're a boatload in debt, and then you get out to work in a field completely regulated and limited by insurance companies.

When I was pre-med and shadowing docs, every single one encouraged me to look at other career paths - granted, they were pretty jaded because they had to live through all the changes as insurance control came about.

It's a very rewarding career - but alot of the smartest candidates just don't want to be in a career that is limited and totally controlled by paper pushers. That is ultimately what is leading to what will turn into a shortage of docs.

[prrthd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Other:

CCIE exam

(I'm taking the written test today, have two years, assuming I pass it, to take the lab. It's the toughest IT certification exam by far)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this thing is a bitch too, also very full of practical knowledge. CCIE and CISSP are the two hardest IT related certifications.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm studying for my CISSP right now and I can tell you it was way harder getting my RHCE than it will be getting the CISSP. The RHCE is 2/3 practical and is an 6-7 hour test.

I took the MCAT when I was pre-med in college, I personally can not picture a test harder than that one. I studied for almost 6 months for it, it was mentally draining. Also kind of sucked that the exam fell on my 21st birthday.

[EMc]

Ive been told by a few people that the NYS CPA exam is considered the one of, if not the hardest test.

However, these were all accountants, so there may be some major bias.

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
Other:

CCIE exam

(I'm taking the written test today, have two years, assuming I pass it, to take the lab. It's the toughest IT certification exam by far)

[/ QUOTE ]

brag update:

passed the written test.

The test wasn't too hard. Now, to study for the lab...

[buriedbeds]

Anyone every take Kaplan's online LSAT course? I'm thinking of signing up this week...

-bb.