Terms & Conditions

Internet Magazine

Non–US new players
Get five 2+2 books


Order Books
Book Translations
Forum Login
 
 
Expand All   Collapse All

 Two Plus Two 
2+2 Magazine Forum
Special Sklansky Forum
2+2 Pokercast
About the Forums

 General Poker Discussion 
Beginners Questions
Books and Publications
Televised Poker
News, Views, and Gossip
Brick and Mortar
Home Poker
Beats, Brags, and Variance
Poker Theory
Poker Legislation

 Coaching/Training 
StoxPoker
DeucesCracked

 German Forums 
Poker Allgemein
Strategie: Holdem NL cash
Strategie: Sonstige
Internet/Online
BBV
Small Talk
German Poker News

 French Forums 
Forum francophone
Strategie
BBV (French)

 Limit Texas Hold'em 
High Stakes Limit
Medium Stakes Limit
Small Stakes Limit
Micro Stakes Limit
Mid-High Short-handed
Small Stakes Shorthanded
Limit––>NL

 PL/NL Texas Hold'em 
High Stakes
Medium Stakes
Small Stakes
Micro Stakes
Small-High Full Ring
Micro Full Ring

 Tournament Poker 
Small Stakes MTT
High Stakes MTT
MTT Community
STT Strategy
Tournament Circuit

 Other Poker 
Omaha/8
Omaha High
Stud
Heads Up Poker
Other Poker Games

 General Gambling 
Probability
Psychology
Sports Betting
Other Gambling Games
Entertainment Betting

 Internet Gambling 
Internet Gambling
Internet Bonuses
Affiliates/RakeBack
Software

 2+2 Communities 
Other Other Topics
The Lounge: Discussion+Review
El Diablo's General Discussion
BBV4Life

 Other Topics 
Golf
Sporting Events
Politics
Business, Finance, and Investing
Travel
Science, Math, and Philosophy
Health and Fitness
Student Life
Puzzles and Other Games
Video Games
Laughs or Links!
Computer Technical Help
Sponsored Support Forums
RakebackNetwork
RakeReduction.com
Other Links
Books
Authors
Abbreviations
Calendar
Order Books
Books by Others
Favorite Links
Feedback
Advertising Information
Home
Posting Hints
Privacy Notice
Forum Archives

The 2+2 Forums

Before using this Forum, please refer to the Terms and Conditions (Last modified: 2/26/2006)

Be sure to read the   Two Plus Two Internet Magazine

This is an archive. The main forums are here

These forums are read only.


 
UBB.threads™ Groupee, Inc.

PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> Small Stakes

AZplaya
Posts Like a Pooh Bah


Reged: 02/08/06
Posts: 1992
Loc: pwning NL $50
Dealing with a downswing
      09/06/06 03:59 PM

Recently I went through the type of bankroll destroying, confidence crushing downswing that I had previously only read about. The following are some lessons learned from my experience.

Don't overestimate your short run edge.
I often sit down at a NL$100 table and see a minraise, min-reraise, 4 callers to the flop, and start counting my money. This is a mistake. The truth is, you can sit at a table full of donks for 5 hours and get your ass completely handed to you on any given night. Once I accepted the fact that even though I am usually one of the best players at my table, I can still get pwned, it became much easier to handle variance. Many people seem to believe that if they play solid poker, it is their god given right to come out on the winning end of things. When these players run bad, their arrogance and complete disrespect for their opponents makes it very difficult for them to deal with losing. I'm not saying you shouldn't be confident, just that you need to accept the fact that on any given night, you can get owned by horrible players.

Don't root for certain cards to come.
Much of the attraction to this game is the adrenaline rush that one gets from gambling. Many players love the feeling they get when they put their whole stack in on a draw, and watch 2 cards peel, hoping for that diamond to hit. While difficult to do, I think it is important for players to avoid this gambling "rush" as much as possible. The true grinder plays every hand with complete emotional indifference. They focus on making the most +EV decision in every single situation, and avoid getting caught up emotionally. Obviously, once you make a decision in poker, the results are completely out of your control. Though this is obvious, I see so many players get furious when their 17 out draw doesn't hit, or when a player calls their big river bluff with bottom pair. Poker can be very frustrating at times, and the less you allow your emotions to impact your decisions, the better equipped you will be to deal with a cold run. Lastly, I think that players who enjoy the thrill of gambling tend to make decisions based on their desire to gambool rather than on the overall EV of the decision being made.

Don't spar in chat or "go after" a certain player.
Nothing puts me on tilt faster than having a fish talk [censored] in chat after rivering me, or having a table coach ridicule me for getting my stack in on the flop with 15+ outs. For this reason, I try to avoid chat at my tables. Of course you should read chat because you can gain lots of info on your opponents thought processes. My point is, don't get suckered in to sparring wars/arguments with the players at your table, nothing good can come of it. This is particularly true if you multitable. While your talking [censored] in chat at one table, your missing action and valuable info at your other table. Also, don't go out of your way to "get back" at a player. Anytime you play differently for reasons such as anger/revenge/etc, there is a good chance your play will not be optimal. What starts with trying to get your money back from a fish often ends with sending a couple more buyins to the said fish. Lastly, don't tap the tank. I know it's very difficult, but in the long run, pointing out the flaws in a players game will only result in all of us making less money.

When your running bad, bluff less and play tighter.
Some will disagree with this, but I think it's very important to pull back a bit when you sense that your running bad. I don't mean to play weak tight, or to value bet less, or play your hands more passively. I am referring to situations which require fold equity. Typically, many players at your table are not paying as much attention as you. They aren't checking hh's to see whats being shown down or paying attention to how tight or loose their opponents are. Many players judge a players skill based on how much money they are winning or losing. If your running bad and the donks at your table are watching you ship stacks all over the place, they are more inclined to give you less respect. So when you fire two streets with whiffed overs, or bluff a busted draw on the river, they are more likely to look you up, because they think you suck. I also find this to be the case pre flop, if I've been running bad, my pre flop raises get much less respect. My normal game is 21/14, but when running like [censored], I tend to drift down to 16/10. Hands like A3suited or KJo, which are typically in my UTG opening range, are often folds for me in EP when I'm getting less respect and running bad. Pay attention to the feel of the table your at. Typically, if you tighten up, people don't tend to notice until you start showing down some big hands, and then you get more respect and can open your game back up. It is amazing to me how many people will play even more aggressively when they are losing, which I believe goes against the logical solution.

At some point, you will run worse than you ever thought possible.
I know, this saying is a tired cliche that we've all heard over and over. In all honesty, I never really understood what this meant until I experienced it myself. At NL $50, I ran breakeven for close to 25K hands, and thought that was my "running worse than I ever thought possible." Boy was I wrong. I used to read BBV posts about someone dropping $900 at NL $50 and thought, dude, you suck at poker, find a new hobby. I never believed that a downswing of greater than 10 buyins was possible without some serious tilt/bad play/both. I'm here to tell you that it is. Obviously my game has some holes, and sometimes I make bad plays, as we all do. That said, I played fairly solid poker for a week and lost almost 19 buyins at NL$100. No ninja monkey tilt. No obvious spew. No drunken shots at $5/10. Just complete and utter destruction, day after day, for a week straight. There are many 2+2er's who believe that a WR of less than 5PTBB's is unacceptable, or that a 5 buyin downswing can't happen to them because they are "too good." If you are one of these players, and you hit a wicked downswing, it may be difficult to accept and busto could be the result. Just realize that no matter how bad you've run, a worse downswing is definitely possible. The crazy thing about poker is that there is absolutely no guarantee that you will win. While good play will win over the long run, there is no way to know for sure how long a short run losing streak can last. You can plug your stats into a BR calculator, and get comfort from standard deviations and confidence intervals that tell you +/- x buyins is likely based on your stats, but the truth is, you really need a huge sample size to really know how big of a swing you could encounter. Most of us don't have a sample size large enough to confidently predict how bad of a run we can hit at some point.

Don't be shy about dropping down a level.
My downswing started playing NL $200 with a $3200 roll. It ended with playing NL$50 on a $1300 roll. Probably the biggest mistake I made was not moving down sooner. It is difficult to move down from a level that you have been a consistent winner at. I beat NL $100 for 7PTBB's/100 over almost 100K hands before this swing. I kept thinking that eventually it would turn around, I am too good for NL $50, etc. Don't make the same mistake. Even if you are rolled for the level your playing, if you start losing a lot, just move down until you start running better. There is no shame in it, and often the worse play at the level below can jump start your comeback and re-instill some confidence. I know it has for me.

Hopefully this has been helpful for some of you, holler back with a tl;dr and I'll know my time was well spent . If anyone has additional advice for dealing with a cooler, throw it in here, I'd love to see some more tips. Good luck and see you all at the tables,
AZ

Post Extras Print Post   Remind Me!     Notify Moderator


Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* Dealing with a downswing AZplaya 09/06/06 03:59 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing CaucasianAsian29   06/10/07 06:48 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing SimaoMacaco   06/29/07 07:28 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing 5thStreetHog   06/29/07 07:50 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Keyser.   02/18/07 05:42 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing kolotoure   02/18/07 05:47 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing wahooriver   02/18/07 05:39 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing dardo   11/27/06 02:13 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing thing85   02/18/07 03:32 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Psydoc   02/18/07 04:05 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing fitnessfreak   02/18/07 06:14 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing wahooriver   02/18/07 05:33 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Dave I   09/12/06 11:25 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing orangeModerator   11/26/06 10:46 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing 2Paul2   09/11/06 07:51 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Vinny80   09/12/06 10:54 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing JackAll   09/11/06 09:25 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing AZplaya   09/11/06 05:51 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing orangeModerator   09/11/06 05:54 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing JackAll   09/11/06 07:37 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing epdaws   09/11/06 05:25 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing the machine   09/07/06 01:16 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing the machine   09/07/06 01:25 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Don Key E37   09/11/06 09:47 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Poolgod32   09/12/06 10:43 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing McGobbler   11/26/06 11:36 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Yoj1mbo   11/27/06 12:04 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing jbird   09/06/06 08:50 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Hince   09/06/06 08:42 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing BalugaWhale   09/06/06 08:46 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing zaphod   09/06/06 08:38 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing g29w   09/06/06 08:16 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Mal_Pais   09/06/06 06:59 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing kurto   09/06/06 06:05 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing AScorz   09/06/06 07:33 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing tannenj   09/06/06 07:49 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing anacrime   09/06/06 08:08 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing 74o_Clownsuit   09/06/06 08:17 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing matrix   09/06/06 08:28 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing AZplaya   09/06/06 08:26 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing goofyballer   09/06/06 05:45 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Fly   09/06/06 06:07 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Dory   09/06/06 06:55 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing goofyballer   09/06/06 07:01 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing BukNaked36   09/06/06 07:25 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing gimmetheloot   09/06/06 06:30 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing EMc   09/06/06 06:38 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing ronitonline   09/06/06 08:59 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Brettster   09/06/06 09:57 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing AZplaya   09/07/06 01:03 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing goofyballer   09/07/06 01:33 AM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing carnivalhobo   09/06/06 06:49 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing SomethingClever   09/06/06 05:04 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Mercman572   09/06/06 04:50 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing relayerdave   09/06/06 05:02 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Penguin3D   09/06/06 04:48 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing 4_2_itModerator   09/06/06 04:20 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing dardo   11/27/06 02:06 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Brettster   09/06/06 04:25 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing tufat23   09/06/06 04:11 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing prayformojo   09/06/06 04:10 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Jigsaws   09/06/06 04:05 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Speedlimits   02/18/07 05:59 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing orangeModerator   09/06/06 04:05 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Al_Money   09/06/06 04:06 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing MasterLJ   09/06/06 04:13 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing testaaja   09/06/06 04:05 PM
. * * Re: Dealing with a downswing Al_Money   09/06/06 04:03 PM

Extra information
0 registered and 22 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Isura, orange, ajmargarine, 4_2_it, Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta, Mike Haven 



Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Thread views: 9603

Rate this thread

Jump to

contact us 2+2 Publishing

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Message Boards and Forums Directory

Pages provided by ConJelCo