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Limit Texas Hold'em >> Mid-High Stakes Shorthanded

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joker122
Attention Whore

Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 5504
Loc: raising for information again

check up
#11346143 - 07/23/07 09:25 PM

running terribly. comments appreciated.

these were either 50/100 or 1/2

first one: no read. i raise 44 otb, bb calls. flop is j82r he checkraises...plan?
does your plan change in any way if there is a fd?

next one different villian - he's unremarkable but competent. i raise A3o otb bb calls. flop is Q23 two spades i bet he calls. turn is an offsuit 9 i check behind.

last one: villian is pretty aggro. he opens otb i 3bet A8s from the sb. flop is J27 i bet he calls turn is another J i bet/fold.

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admiralfluff
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Reged: 01/03/05
Posts: 1742

Re: check up [Re: joker122]
#11347546 - 07/23/07 10:50 PM

1: Against an unknwon I close my eyes and call down. fd on board doesn't change anything.

2 and 3: If villain's play is exploitable such that I can comfortably bet/fold (i.e. he doesn't bluff enough) I always do so. If not, I mix it up between betting and checking planning to c/c river UI. Relative frequencies are probably around 70/30 favoring betting. If I bet and he raises, I usually fold, but call down sometimes (again probably 70/30).

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vmacosta
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Reged: 07/16/04
Posts: 2060
Loc: Bay Area

Re: check up [Re: joker122]
#11347735 - 07/23/07 11:05 PM

I usually play 1/5th of your stakes but these hands seem easy so I'll give it a shot:

hand 1: call down as long as QT9 don't come

hand 2: bet both turn and river and call down if raised on turn.

hand 3: i guess its ok particularly if there isn't flush draw.

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joker122
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Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 5504
Loc: raising for information again

Re: check up [Re: vmacosta]
#11347768 - 07/23/07 11:08 PM

"hand 2: bet both turn and river and call down if raised on turn.
"

you're betting any river?

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vmacosta
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Reged: 07/16/04
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Re: check up [Re: joker122]
#11347839 - 07/23/07 11:14 PM

Quote:

"hand 2: bet both turn and river and call down if raised on turn.
"

you're betting any river?

yeah--maybe that's why I don't play high yet?

I guess I've been seeing weak A-hi/K-hi chk/call down too often on those types of boards.

Edited by vmacosta (07/23/07 11:15 PM)

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Scary_Tiger
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Reged: 10/16/05
Posts: 8590

Re: check up [Re: vmacosta]
#11348124 - 07/23/07 11:36 PM

Hand one, call down unless a Q,T, or 9 comes is very solid.

Hand two, depends on a lot of factors. If we had 44 I'd definitely bet/fold the turn, I don't really expect to get bluff check/raised very often. However, a hand like QJ or Q9 would not surprise me at all for him to have and we don't want to just give up our five outs. But I don't bet/call fold very often. But if we just check behind we might reveal we're going to call with our A-hi equivalent hand and he could own us. As long as he's bluffing the river a decent amount it's a check behind, but if he just value bets we need to bet the turn or get destroyed.

I don't really like folding turn in hand 3, I'd prefer to see the river, and once there I might call depending how I feel about him.

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JustZak
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Reged: 07/28/05
Posts: 232
Loc: New York

Re: check up [Re: joker122]
#11348198 - 07/23/07 11:42 PM

Hand 1: With no read I'm kind of unsure here. Calling down seems pretty cruddy if a 9 T or Q hits. But folding seems a bit weak. I guess I call the c/r and re-evaluate on the turn.

Hand 2: Your description of the villain in hand 2 leads me to believe betting the turn is probably better, if he c/rs I'm ok folding most of the time.

Hand 3: Is board rainbow at this point? Otherwise its fairly drawless, so I would have to have a read telling me that the villain here could make this raise with a large number of hands we beat to consider calling here.

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geormiet
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Reged: 07/19/04
Posts: 2237
Loc: San Francisco

Re: check up [Re: joker122]
#11350587 - 07/24/07 02:26 AM

I think 2 and 3 are played great. The A3 turn opens up a lot of semibluffing opportunities and I'm happier trying to induce a bluff on the river than bet-calling and praying he has JT.

The A8 is tough but what can you do. Check calling turns your hand over.

Hand 1 if you know the guy is incapable of turn 3 betting draws then you can freeshowdown the turn, heck even if you don't know what he is capable of you can still go for it.

I waver from fearing being 3 bet semibluffed on the turn too much to not having enough fear. I think it's a mistake to never raise the turn with 44 and of course it's definitely a mistake to always raise with 44.

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Heisenb3rg
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Reged: 11/28/05
Posts: 1733

Re: check up [Re: geormiet]
#11351418 - 07/24/07 04:19 AM

How I think it's best to play

1) Call down, fold if T9Q come... Free showdown raise a K or an A. (it's more for meta game and getting people to spew at you when you hit your pair of aces than for it maximizing value for this hand)

2)
Most of the time I bet/call down here, thinking im ahead the majorit of the time, have almost enough outs to see a river.. and once I get to the river.. enough missed draws to call a river bet.... But this is very read depedent. A player who check/raise a lot of flops I would bet/call down cause I would weight their range to draws + 9x..
A player who liked to wait to turns to raise top pair I would check behind and call a river bet. A nitty player I would bet/fold against..

Against a well balanced opponent all 3 lines should run similar in expectation I think and Id mix it up... Probabily leaning towards checking it behind since you likely have 5 outs if behind and you have plenty of hands to bet/fold...

3) Jah b/f.
Since a lot of players do use this card to bluff with, Ill want to sometimes call down with ace high.. So to do this Ill call down my best ace high hands and fold my worst.
So Id probabily b/c down AK/AQ and fold the rest..

Hang in there with the downswing!

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HOWMANY
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Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 4322

Re: check up [Re: Heisenb3rg]
#11351485 - 07/24/07 04:29 AM

Hand 1 I do what heisenberg said. I raise A/K turn probably half the time I'd guess and just call down the other half. QT9 are death cards almost certainly.

Hand 2 I'm too lazy to go back and read the OP so I b/f turn against people I can bet/fold against and bet/call down against others. I think I basically never check the turn because he has 6 outs a [censored] and we can't let him have a free card, especially because he'll never miss a bet if he rivers us.

Hand 3 I want to say I'd fold but I really want to call down because it looks like he's taking a shot at us. This is the sort of spot where when I'm running good I look smart when I call down and when I'm running bad I just get more egg on my face. I don't think it really has to do with making more wrong decisions when I'm running bad, I think it's merely the fact that they happen to have it more often and I keep losing in spots where I normally win quite often. In other words I think we have the best hand a lot here.

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