Terms & Conditions

Internet Magazine

Non–US new players
Get five 2+2 books


Order Books
Book Translations
Forum Login
 
 
Expand All   Collapse All

 Two Plus Two 
2+2 Magazine Forum
Special Sklansky Forum
2+2 Pokercast
About the Forums

 General Poker Discussion 
Beginners Questions
Books and Publications
Televised Poker
News, Views, and Gossip
Brick and Mortar
Home Poker
Beats, Brags, and Variance
Poker Theory
Poker Legislation

 Coaching/Training 
StoxPoker
DeucesCracked

 German Forums 
Poker Allgemein
Strategie: Holdem NL cash
Strategie: Sonstige
Internet/Online
BBV
Small Talk
German Poker News

 French Forums 
Forum francophone
Strategie
BBV (French)

 Limit Texas Hold'em 
High Stakes Limit
Medium Stakes Limit
Small Stakes Limit
Micro Stakes Limit
Mid-High Short-handed
Small Stakes Shorthanded
Limit––>NL

 PL/NL Texas Hold'em 
High Stakes
Medium Stakes
Small Stakes
Micro Stakes
Small-High Full Ring
Micro Full Ring

 Tournament Poker 
Small Stakes MTT
High Stakes MTT
MTT Community
STT Strategy
Tournament Circuit

 Other Poker 
Omaha/8
Omaha High
Stud
Heads Up Poker
Other Poker Games

 General Gambling 
Probability
Psychology
Sports Betting
Other Gambling Games
Entertainment Betting

 Internet Gambling 
Internet Gambling
Internet Bonuses
Affiliates/RakeBack
Software

 2+2 Communities 
Other Other Topics
The Lounge: Discussion+Review
El Diablo's General Discussion
BBV4Life

 Other Topics 
Golf
Sporting Events
Politics
Business, Finance, and Investing
Travel
Science, Math, and Philosophy
Health and Fitness
Student Life
Puzzles and Other Games
Video Games
Laughs or Links!
Computer Technical Help
Sponsored Support Forums
RakebackNetwork
RakeReduction.com
Other Links
Books
Authors
Abbreviations
Calendar
Order Books
Books by Others
Favorite Links
Feedback
Advertising Information
Home
Posting Hints
Privacy Notice
Forum Archives

The 2+2 Forums

Before using this Forum, please refer to the Terms and Conditions (Last modified: 2/26/2006)

Be sure to read the   Two Plus Two Internet Magazine

This is an archive. The main forums are here

These forums are read only.


 
UBB.threads™ Groupee, Inc.

Tournament Poker >> STT Strategy

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
suzzer99
save the cheerleader. save OOT.


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 13634
Loc: guuhhhn inner nets
Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad
      #8002607 - 11/10/06 12:38 PM

I just killed a session early because I had a feeling I wasn't playing my best at all. I was already stressed out over some non-poker stuff, then had some ugly suckouts to start, and then the wheels came off a bit. I've been pretty hot lately, and I always let it get under my skin when it looks like the winning streak is coming to an end. Also I let the coin fall out of my Chinese money frog's mouth. Not good.



Anyway point is when I hear people complain about running bad - I have a feeling they, like me, may also be making a bunch subtle (and not-so-subtle) mistakes to compound the problem. So in the interests of giving something back, and trying to counteract the *unlearning* process (as good2cu described it) here are some of the significant mistakes I think I have identified. I found a number of probable minorish SNGPT miscalcs as well.


#1 - $109 regular
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t5517)
Button (t665)
Hero (t885)
BB (t6433)

Preflop: Hero is in SB with J 7
CO folds, Button folds, Hero raises to t885 (All-in)

I completely missed that button was so short. Bad. I used to miss stuff like that when I first started 8-tabling, but rarely do anymore. Also I had recently shoved twice, so bigstack is going to be even more loose than he normally would be. And finally, this is a non-turbo so I have a lot more time to sit and wait for a proper double-up hand.



#2 - 6x$119
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t100 (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t1210)
Button (t2065)
SB (t4275)
BB (t1450)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with A T
Hero raises to t300, Button folds, SB calls t250, BB folds

Flop: (t700) 2 7 K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t700) K (2 players)
SB bets t100, Hero calls t100

River: (t900) Q (2 players)
SB bets t200, Hero folds

I have no idea what I was thinking when I called the turn. I had amassed a huge stack early, ran a flopped straight into a FH, and lost half my stack. I think this made me play a little more reckless than if I had never had the stack at all. Also against these dudes I probably should have just shoved preflop.



#3 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 with t25 antes (6 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t30)
UTG+1 (t2965)
CO (t1685)
Hero (t3980)
SB (t1555)
BB (t3285)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with T A
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero raises to t600, SB raises to t1530 (All-in), BB folds, Hero calls t930

I'm not 100% sure about this one. Let's assume villain has done nothing weird and has normal stats. I hadn't been stealing a lot or caught stealing.



#4 - $114
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1510)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1570)
MP3 (t1750)
CO (t1260)
Hero (t1470)
SB (t1440)
BB (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with 6 A
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t20, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t20, CO calls t20, Hero calls t20

I have a tendency to start calling things preflop that I would normally let go. IE - a couple of times I had to stop myself from calling a preflop raise with suited connectors. I haven't called raises with suited connectors since March, when I sucked balls (except for stuff like - on the button with 5 ppl in the pot closing the action etc.). Also I kept wanting to limp low PPs from EP level 2 and 3, which I haven't done in forever.

So then I get into a post flop mess, and my impaired tilty judgement gets me in even more trouble. Just playing a little looser in itself isn't the end of the world. But when I'm not in the right frame of mind to make a good laydown postflop - it can become disasterous. (Things worked out ok here, but I don't like my preflop call.)



#5 - $114
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t2400)
UTG+1 (t5300)
Hero (t1460)
Button (t1530)
SB (t1360)
BB (t1450)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with T A
UTG calls t150, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to t1460 (All-in)

I remember thinking as soon as I shoved here "he's got a PP, he's going to call", which is exactly what happened. I think I may have been better off calling or just folding. Thoughts?



#6 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1495)
UTG+1 (t1640)
Hero (t1420)
MP2 (t2865)
CO (t1230)
Button (t1665)
SB (t1550)
BB (t1635)

Preflop: Hero is in MP1 with J A
UTG calls t100, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to t400

Truth be told I don't like any action here. Folding seems too weak. Calling is likely to create a family pot, and I hate hitting TP in a family pot. And raising gets messy. But by raising here I've really hung myself out to dry to an overshove. I have a feeling I fold this when I'm on my A-game.



#7 - $114
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t400 with t25 antes (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t2200)
Button (t6995)
SB (t3220)
Hero (t1085)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with 6 T
CO folds, Button folds, SB raises to t1600, Hero folds

This is close in SNGPT, but I'm pretty sure it's a call I have to make and would normally make. Especially when you consider I'll have 1 BB after the SB goes through me - and very likely won't even have a chance to contend for a heads-up pot once I fold this.



#8 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1415)
UTG+1 (t1695)
MP1 (t2155)
Hero (t1380)
Button (t3305)
SB (t360)
BB (t3190)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with 6 A
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises to t150, Button raises to t3305 (All-in), SB folds, BB folds, Hero folds

Yuck. I think STTFers fold stuff like AT/9 too often in these spots, but A6o blows. It's interesting how my ranges tend to creep when I'm not on my A-game.



#9 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 with t25 antes (3 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Button (t7535)
SB (t2730)
Hero (t3235)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with A 9
Button raises to t800, SB folds, Hero raises to t3210 (All-in)

I'm not sure about this. Villain had been pretty aggressive. I was annoyed with this guy as we had gotten into it several times earlier, and he had shoved over my steals at least once. But that 800 raise usually means they're serious. He had AJ here. I don't know that it's a huge *mistake* to shove here as I'll always have some FE. But I may have made a good laydown if I was playing well.



#10 - $114
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1530)
UTG+1 (t1350)
MP1 (t1755)
MP2 (t1490)
MP3 (t1835)
CO (t1470)
Button (t1465)
Hero (t1380)
BB (t1225)

Preflop: Hero is in SB with A K
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to t90, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls t75, BB raises to t330, MP1 folds, Hero raises to t1380 (All-in)

I think this was the point where I realized I better quit playing for the day. In this session I had already laid down AK preflop early once (maybe twice) to hefty raises, which I really don't like to do. So by this point I was MAD AS HELL AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE. Villain had JJ of course and I lost another race. On the weekends I can see maybe this being ok as villain will be a maniac some % of the time. But on thurs. afternoon this is almost always a real hand that he aint folding.



#11 - $114
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1585)
UTG+1 (t1191)
MP1 (t1835)
MP2 (t1395)
MP3 (t1410)
Hero (t505)
Button (t2550)
SB (t1879)
BB (t1150)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with 9 9
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t298, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to t1395 (All-in), MP3 folds, Hero calls t505 (All-in)

Same $114 - I had managed to claw back somewhat. It seems like best case scenario here I'm racing against multiple overs. I think this is another case where I felt more desperate than I probably should have, since I was almost dead a few orbits earlier. Seems like maybe if I lose a bigstack, or claw back from nothing--then I have a tendency to play too loose--which gets a lot worse when combined with running-bad tilt. Also old problems that I've mostly conquered - like falling in love with my hand regardless of the action in front of me - can creep back in.



#12 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t3040)
UTG+1 (t2665)
MP1 (t2950)
CO (t1630)
Button (t880)
SB (t825)
BB (t1510)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with A T
Hero raises to t450

??? I have no idea.



#13 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 with t25 antes (6 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1675)
UTG+1 (t1620)
CO (t2510)
Button (t1360)
SB (t2620)
Hero (t3715)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with K Q
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t400, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls t200

Flop: (t1050) 9 J 7 (2 players)
Hero bets t400, UTG+1 raises to t800, Hero folds

Same $60. I generally wouldn't call any raise with KQo here w/o a read. And then it's only to try to spike a K or Q or I'm done. I think I'm better at stealing pots than most of you TAG nits (). But this is a pretty gross spot to take a stab at a whiffed flop. Yuck. Another example of bad judgement creeping in.



#14 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t400 with t25 antes (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t2920)
Button (t4095)
SB (t1720)
BB (t4765)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with 8 A
Hero raises to t2895 (All-in), Button folds, SB folds, BB folds

This may have been a bad shove. I had just shoved on the previous hand, so these dudes could have been loosening.



I've tried to pry some insight out of these mistakes and why I make them - other than just "bad, don't do it again". Hopefully this will help me and maybe some of you the next time you think gods of poker have their foot on your neck and wont let up.

FWIW, here are the concrete steps I plan to take when I'm running bad:

1) If I can identify one or two ugly mistakes, and I know I'm not in a good mood, I'll quit playing. I can't say I'll always have the discipline to do this, but I know what I should do at least.

2) Switch from continuous to sets. When I wound this session down, I started making a lot better decisions, even if I still wasn't in the right frame of mind. It's easier for subtle tilt to creep in when you're under the gun to make a bunch of decisions very quickly.

3) Stop mixing buyins and formats. Normally I play a mix of $60/$114 - 6/9/18-players, and have learned to keep track of the subtle differences in each pretty well. But during this session I got mixed up on this a few times. This is a variable that can be eliminated when I need to simplify things.

4) Actively fight it. Be aware that I've been running bad, so stuff can creep back in. Stuff I used to do when I sucked - like playing too loose early, falling in love with my hand, playing reckless because I lost a big stack or came back from the dead, getting fed up because the same situation comes up over and over, getting gunshy when it's time to make a good call or shove late, trying to steal pots in ill-advised spots, too often assuming villains are playing back, etc etc. I'm going to print this up and have it sitting next to me as a detailed reminder.


That's all I got. Anyone else have any examples of tilt that creeps in when you're running bad or of steps you take to counteract the problem?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gelford
Regular Joe


Reged: 11/15/05
Posts: 6392
Loc: Not mentioning the war
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8002661 - 11/10/06 12:42 PM

Good Idea Suzz ... I haven't read it as I am totally unable to focus, but from the look of it, this might contain gold

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AMT
Railbird Extraordinaire


Reged: 09/15/05
Posts: 9771
Loc: Watching my baby grinders take...
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8002802 - 11/10/06 12:54 PM

#3 i think is pretty close, and could probably go either way. Easy fold with A9, probably a call with AJ. meh

#5- id probably need to have a lot different of a situation to shove this (something like a couple of weak limps, good stacks for FE and hero being in later position)

#6 id fold and i dont think its close.

#9- i think this is fine vs most villains in this spot, but i also find the 600 vs 800 raise to be significant among some villains

11- i dont think this is as bad as you do, youre at a full table with 5 bb, and UTG+1 doesnt *always* call the reshove, and id take that race probably

12- stacks seem to short, as youll always have to call a shove and you could be facing a lot of heavy action behind in a spot that youre not going to be overly comfortable in, id probably just fold preflop, i guess it can depend on the table though


Quote:

3) Stop mixing buyins and formats. Normally I play a mix of $60/$114 - 6/9/18-players, and have learned to keep track of the subtle differences in each pretty well. But during this session I got mixed up on this a few times. This is a variable that can be eliminated when I need to simplify things.





very important, and i think a lot of people overlook the game mixing in certain situations.

very nice post suzzer, good luck coming out of the swing


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suzzer99
save the cheerleader. save OOT.


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 13634
Loc: guuhhhn inner nets
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: AMT]
      #8002914 - 11/10/06 01:03 PM

Ahh. On #11 I keep thinking UTG+1 is all in. I think this turns a lot better with the chance he might fold.

It's not so much a swing as trying to prevent one. I ended up down $550 on the session. Could have been a lot worse, I won a couple $60s at the end. Eh I guess that's a swing.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kevkev60614
old hand


Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 1126
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8003949 - 11/10/06 02:13 PM

#2, #3 - You're going to fold to a bigstack push anyway so why not open for 2.5BBs? Your cbet is cheaper, too.
#2 - I'm very often c-betting here.
#3 - I don't see what the problem is. You're getting almost 3 to 1. His range can't be THAT tight, can it?
#5 - I fold barring reads.
#6 - I fold barring reads.
#9 - A read on his holdings is a lot less important than a read on your FE. If you thought you had enough, I think the push is fine.

I have the exact opposite problem as you, suzz. When a heater ends I stop playing for days and sometimes weeks. No chance I'm still tilting.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
curtains
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 05/04/03
Posts: 13960
Loc: Philadelphia
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: kevkev60614]
      #8004058 - 11/10/06 02:20 PM

Some of these hands arent so bad at all. and some are

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suzzer99
save the cheerleader. save OOT.


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 13634
Loc: guuhhhn inner nets
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: curtains]
      #8004084 - 11/10/06 02:22 PM

Thanks curtains. That just bumped my ROI up a point.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
samsonh
addict


Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 462
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8004403 - 11/10/06 02:40 PM

I agree about playing sets when running bad. That helps me more than anything.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
FoldYourLife
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1701
Loc: GG PP.
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8004855 - 11/10/06 03:04 PM

Great post Suzzer, I'm sure this took a lot of time.

A few thoughts...
#1. Unless BB is calling very tight let it go w/ shorty around.
#2. I'd just open shove.
#3. Pretty standard.
#4. Yeah, no reason to play A6o on the button, but you already know that.
#5. Could go either way, depends on limper.
#6. Fold it.
#7. It's break even if he's pushing 55%. I would probably take my chances and call.
#8. Another open fold for me.
#9. Could go either way.
#10. You probably have zero FE after BB shows a lot of strength with that reraise, let it go.
#11. Shortstacked w/ 99, I call too.
#12. You can argue for an open fold or raise. I wouldn't go as high as t450 w/ the raise.
#14. Depends on calling ranges you have for them, could be a push or a fold.
Maybe I'm off w/ something, feel free to fix a leak if somebody sees one.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sonneti
veteran


Reged: 02/10/06
Posts: 1446
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: samsonh]
      #8005060 - 11/10/06 03:15 PM

Havent read any replies, some of this might be way off:

1. doh!.. where is the cancel all in button.
2. guilty of this too sometimes
3. I dont think it's that bad, ideally you want him to fold but odd's arent really really bad here. 900 for a 2200 pot, maybe dominated but maybe flipping.
4. Is limping small pp's really that bad in level 2? If it's 30 chips it's of no real effect. Maybe I should take a look in pokertracker.
5. Read dependant for me
6. I never know what to do in this situation, I try not to commit myself.
7. Yup I call.
8. Dont like raising rag aces in this spot.
9. Read dependant but I dont think it's that bad. I'm a sucker for suited aces 3 handed though.
10. Ummm read dependant for me but I guess I fold most of the time.
11. 99 in a 3 way pot is never good lol but you're very short.
12. Tight table and its ok. If you're getting action its a pain to play.
13. I'm not stabbing unless UTG+1 is really weak
14. Umm painful I wouldnt think twice about it if it was off suit.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suzzer99
save the cheerleader. save OOT.


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 13634
Loc: guuhhhn inner nets
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: kevkev60614]
      #8005110 - 11/10/06 03:18 PM

Quote:

I have the exact opposite problem as you, suzz. When a heater ends I stop playing for days and sometimes weeks. No chance I'm still tilting.




Why do you think I'm writing these elaborate posts instead of playing?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sng-sam
veteran


Reged: 02/07/05
Posts: 1371
Loc: Enjoying an unsustainable ROI
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8005257 - 11/10/06 03:26 PM

Quote:

and trying to counteract the *unlearning* process (as good2cu described it)




Can someone point me to this post?

SAM


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suzzer99
save the cheerleader. save OOT.


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 13634
Loc: guuhhhn inner nets
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: sng-sam]
      #8005781 - 11/10/06 04:01 PM

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post7634141

I got a lot out of this post. I still reread it occasionally.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AA Suited
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2652
Loc: Master of the Check/ Fold
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8008169 - 11/10/06 07:32 PM

#2: Why didnt you cbet?

given that u didnt cbet, yeah the turn call is a wtf?

#3: I think u have to call since you're pot committed?

#5: i would have pushed as well

#6: "But by raising here I've really hung myself out to dry to an overshove. "

I don't understand?

#7: I would have called with Any2

#8: i would not put in a single penny preflop w/A6o at 25/50.

#9: eh.. it's ITM. I dont hate defending your blind with A9s given your read on villian.

I'll read the rest later...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
advilandy
member


Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 196
Loc: Valuetown
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8008297 - 11/10/06 07:45 PM

Quote:

I have no idea what I was thinking when I called the turn. I had amassed a huge stack early, ran a flopped straight into a FH, and lost half my stack.




This is my biggest problem. I take a few people out and know I'm going to win. I'm completely running over the table, and it looks like I might finish this one off in under 30 minutes when one of the other players who's started slowly accumulating chips pushes all in. I have the best hand, but it doesn't hold up, and all of a sudden I'm making mistakes on all of my other tables. The game disintegrates into me thinking I'm good enough that I'm not subject to the statistics, and I lose a lot of money that day.

I'm taking various steps to fix this, but the most important one is being able to ask myself if I feel like playing right now or if I'd rather watch a movie, shower, eat, whatever. If the answer isn't poker, I stop for an hour or two. Suprisingly when I do this I come back and play well, with the hands that might have bugged me all day comepletely gone.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gramps
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 1649
Loc: Checking out this year's crop
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8009185 - 11/10/06 09:33 PM

Obv., these are "mistake hands," if I posted all my misclick/brainfart hands, there would be some really ugly ones. I don't think that many are that bad pukey. Here's a couple that did give me that car sickness kinda feeling...

Quote:

#3 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 with t25 antes (6 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t30)
UTG+1 (t2965)
CO (t1685)
Hero (t3980)
SB (t1555)
BB (t3285)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with T A
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero raises to t600, SB raises to t1530 (All-in), BB folds, Hero calls t930

I'm not 100% sure about this one. Let's assume villain has done nothing weird and has normal stats. I hadn't been stealing a lot or caught stealing.




Folding with ATs getting ~5:2 would make me puke, I don't care how tight SB is (Even if he's as tight as a non-sitting out UTG...). If his range is AA/KK/AK, it's about even cev to call. If you widen it out, it can be a big mistake to fold. You're stealing to 3 BB from the button with a big stack of chips....

Quote:

#5 - $114
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t2400)
UTG+1 (t5300)
Hero (t1460)
Button (t1530)
SB (t1360)
BB (t1450)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with T A
UTG calls t150, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to t1460 (All-in)

I remember thinking as soon as I shoved here "he's got a PP, he's going to call", which is exactly what happened. I think I may have been better off calling or just folding. Thoughts?




All depends on that PAHUD green number minus that PAHUD red number, in addition to any read on if he's a limper - does he limp strong hands too/how loose is he on calling pushes (one of the limp-spite-push-callers). Semi-puke against a total unknown.

Quote:

#6 - $60
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1495)
UTG+1 (t1640)
Hero (t1420)
MP2 (t2865)
CO (t1230)
Button (t1665)
SB (t1550)
BB (t1635)

Preflop: Hero is in MP1 with J A
UTG calls t100, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to t400




Puke-pukity-puke. Let me take a sip of water. Puke-pukity-puke some more. I know the feeling as a "dumbed down" SNG player against the grain of mainstream tournament advice and feeling like you should be raising with position more/making some moves, taking the initiative, etc., etc. However, I love playing SNGs against "poker playas" like this that make 2nd level plays and bring unneccessary marginal confrontation upon themselves - it's fine to do a little 3rd level (or is it 4th level? I'm a dumbed down SNG pro) stuff like this against the right players, but that's not the case here. Have fun on the flop/dealing with a push from behind/limp-push. I think a preflop push is a better (albeit usually incorrect) play.

Quote:

#7 - $114
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t400 with t25 antes (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t2200)
Button (t6995)
SB (t3220)
Hero (t1085)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with 6 T
CO folds, Button folds, SB raises to t1600, Hero folds

This is close in SNGPT, but I'm pretty sure it's a call I have to make and would normally make. Especially when you consider I'll have 1 BB after the SB goes through me - and very likely won't even have a chance to contend for a heads-up pot once I fold this.




Puke. You're like 49% against a random hand. I doubt you're < 40% absent some read. That suited with a semi-crap hand really helps you out against wider ranges like the SB's likely range. If you fold, you'll probably have to win two separate showdowns to get (roughly, on average) back to 2220 where you'll be if you win this showdown. If you get it in at 50% & 50%, that's a 1 in 4 shot.

Maybe if you had T6o, the SB had folded a blind or two to you previously as a VSS whereas he's more aggressive when the BB is deeper (suggesting he raises a tighter than normal range where likely to be called), and the CO had 1200 chips instead of 2200 or something like that, it might make sense to wait to take your confrontation in a later spot, but given a *typical* SB's range (plenty of players push trash into the SS here), and these stack sizes, it's a puke (and I haven't looked at SNGPT).

Quote:

#10 - $114
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1530)
UTG+1 (t1350)
MP1 (t1755)
MP2 (t1490)
MP3 (t1835)
CO (t1470)
Button (t1465)
Hero (t1380)
BB (t1225)

Preflop: Hero is in SB with A K
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to t90, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls t75, BB raises to t330, MP1 folds, Hero raises to t1380 (All-in)

I think this was the point where I realized I better quit playing for the day. In this session I had already laid down AK preflop early once (maybe twice) to hefty raises, which I really don't like to do. So by this point I was MAD AS HELL AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE. Villain had JJ of course and I lost another race. On the weekends I can see maybe this being ok as villain will be a maniac some % of the time. But on thurs. afternoon this is almost always a real hand that he aint folding.




Puke-pukity-puke absent some extraordinary read on RR'r (consistently horrible playmaking foolios with wide-enough ranges here are out there, but very rare). I do think you have to make a semi-sketchy stand early once in a while otherwise the people you play against a lot can be too confident in their ability to play back at you, but this isn't the spot (obv.).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suzzer99
save the cheerleader. save OOT.


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 13634
Loc: guuhhhn inner nets
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: Gramps]
      #8009233 - 11/10/06 09:39 PM

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
notTHATjonmayer
member


Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 165
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8009944 - 11/10/06 11:08 PM

Hand 2- I'm always pushing at the 22's-55's. Not sure it's any different at this level.

4- even grosser than you make it seem, i think. suited it's unnecessary/a little gross. here, it just makes no sense. i also think the desire to call raises w/ suited connectors, even w/ multiple callers and late position, should be surpressed. you just aren't deep-stacked enough to make it profitable, imo.

#5- don't like cuz he was utg, but probably any other position limps and i push, and it's also ok, i think, if you've seen him limp before from utg (and not show a real big one). readless, i just fold.

#6- again, to a UTG limper, i probably just fold. maybe limp behind if i'm in later position.

#7- yeah, if SB has a clue, i think you have to call.

#9- definitely a fold. even if it doesn't mean monster, 4XBB raise this late almost always means you have no FE. default I push back as tight as like 88+ AQ+. just looked down and saw he had AJ. see?

#10- yeah, this spot sucks, sometimes if i feel like the games have randomly wandered into donkness I'll push over (also at the lower limits i play), but in general i think it's an easy fold i'm starting to make more consistently

#11- eh, i really don't think this can be that bad with you this low. 800 chips or so and it starts to get ugly i think.

#12-14 i'm mucking, but 14 could be a shove at certain tables.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
futuredoc85
flips in GOD MODE


Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 9014
Loc: ATL
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: notTHATjonmayer]
      #8010482 - 11/11/06 12:16 AM

Suzzer, thank you for doing this it is v v helpful.

Gramps, your post is everything i was gonna say + some other stuff i didnt think of and its said with much more explanation, thank you.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AA Suited
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2652
Loc: Master of the Check/ Fold
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: futuredoc85]
      #8012763 - 11/11/06 09:16 AM

Quote:

Suzzer, thank you for doing this it is v v helpful.

Gramps, your post is everything i was gonna say + some other stuff i didnt think of and its said with much more explanation, thank you.




futuredoc85
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 1713

Pooh bah in 3 months? jesus...

when do u have time to play poker?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
futuredoc85
flips in GOD MODE


Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 9014
Loc: ATL
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: AA Suited]
      #8012823 - 11/11/06 09:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Suzzer, thank you for doing this it is v v helpful.

Gramps, your post is everything i was gonna say + some other stuff i didnt think of and its said with much more explanation, thank you.




futuredoc85
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 1713

Pooh bah in 3 months? jesus...

when do u have time to play poker?




i spent a while posting and reading more than playing cuz i was losing monies and didnt want to lose more. also all my classes this semester are online so im on the comp a lot and i post a lot early in sets. Also BBV. i know it was a joke, but i think it helped a lot that i spent more time on here posting and SNGPTing posted hands and less time grinding in the beginning, and i would def recommend it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Desdia01
addict


Reged: 09/16/06
Posts: 513
Loc: bumpin' Jay, Jeezy, and Jim Jo...
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8017042 - 11/11/06 07:04 PM

That I can recall, first of it's kind, Suz. You won't catch many of the top (Party) 10 SNG players in the world creating this kind of thread. Kudos.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
futuredoc85
flips in GOD MODE


Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 9014
Loc: ATL
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: Desdia01]
      #8017503 - 11/11/06 07:44 PM

Quote:

That I can recall, first of it's kind, Suz. You won't catch many of the top (Party) 10 SNG players in the world creating this kind of thread. Kudos.





Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Desdia01
addict


Reged: 09/16/06
Posts: 513
Loc: bumpin' Jay, Jeezy, and Jim Jo...
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: futuredoc85]
      #8018067 - 11/11/06 08:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That I can recall, first of it's kind, Suz. You won't catch many of the top (Party) 10 SNG players in the world creating this kind of thread. Kudos.








Gotta love Google.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suzzer99
save the cheerleader. save OOT.


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 13634
Loc: guuhhhn inner nets
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: Desdia01]
      #8018153 - 11/11/06 09:05 PM

Yeah. The hands above are the mistakes from 2 losing sets, after running sick hot. I've had 10 more losing or breakeven sets in a row since. Mostly losing. Loving life right now. I keep getting bizzaro tough situations and doing the exact wrong thing. Case in point:

PokerStars Game #6981613834: Tournament #35645552, $105+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/11 - 13:38:06 (ET)
Table '35645552 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: suzzer99 (1180 in chips)
Seat 5: EyePicWinnaz (3245 in chips)
Seat 6: helion (1515 in chips)
Seat 8: z32fanatic (7560 in chips)
suzzer99: posts the ante 25
EyePicWinnaz: posts the ante 25
helion: posts the ante 25
z32fanatic: posts the ante 25
z32fanatic: posts small blind 200
suzzer99: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to suzzer99 [As Kd]
EyePicWinnaz: folds
helion: raises 1090 to 1490 and is all-in
z32fanatic: calls 1290
suzzer99: calls 755 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [Kc Qs 2c]
*** TURN *** [Kc Qs 2c] [Td]
z32fanatic said, "wow"
*** RIVER *** [Kc Qs 2c Td] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
z32fanatic: shows [6d 6s] (two pair, Sixes and Deuces)
helion: shows [Js Ac] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
helion collected 670 from side pot
suzzer99: shows [As Kd] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
z32fanatic said, "such a bad overcall"
helion collected 3565 from main pot


At this exact time, I was distracted by a painful suckout on another table (my 7BB UTG shove with KK was getting called by 74o in the BB, who had me covered and of course flopped a straight). Distracted enough that I didn't even notice this was on the bubble or that 2 ppl were already all in. I just saw AK and called.

I feel like I'm so discombobulated right now that even if I review the [censored] out of my HHs, it doesn't help. I just keep getting into weird spots and making the same bad judgement calls. I could also quit playing for a while. But every time I've done that, no matter how long I take off, I come back and play like [censored]. Plus it's Saturday night, best time there is. I feel like it really doesn't matter how long of a break I take, I have to play through this.

Anyway if anyone has any advice over and above review HHs or take a break, please feel free to offer it up. I'm not mentioning this stuff to whine about my downswing. I really want to try to figure out how to pull out of stuff like this.

Ok, I just answered my own question somewhat. I'm going to try a set of 6 $60s, to get my mental clarity back. Wish me luck.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Desdia01
addict


Reged: 09/16/06
Posts: 513
Loc: bumpin' Jay, Jeezy, and Jim Jo...
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8018214 - 11/11/06 09:12 PM

Quote:

Yeah. The hands above are the mistakes from 2 losing sets, after running sick hot. I've had 10 more losing or breakeven sets in a row since. Mostly losing. Loving life right now. I keep getting bizzaro tough situations and doing the exact wrong thing. Case in point:

PokerStars Game #6981613834: Tournament #35645552, $105+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/11 - 13:38:06 (ET)
Table '35645552 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: suzzer99 (1180 in chips)
Seat 5: EyePicWinnaz (3245 in chips)
Seat 6: helion (1515 in chips)
Seat 8: z32fanatic (7560 in chips)
suzzer99: posts the ante 25
EyePicWinnaz: posts the ante 25
helion: posts the ante 25
z32fanatic: posts the ante 25
z32fanatic: posts small blind 200
suzzer99: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to suzzer99 [As Kd]
EyePicWinnaz: folds
helion: raises 1090 to 1490 and is all-in
z32fanatic: calls 1290
suzzer99: calls 755 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [Kc Qs 2c]
*** TURN *** [Kc Qs 2c] [Td]
z32fanatic said, "wow"
*** RIVER *** [Kc Qs 2c Td] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
z32fanatic: shows [6d 6s] (two pair, Sixes and Deuces)
helion: shows [Js Ac] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
helion collected 670 from side pot
suzzer99: shows [As Kd] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
z32fanatic said, "such a bad overcall"
helion collected 3565 from main pot


At this exact time, I was distracted by a painful suckout on another table (my 7BB UTG shove with KK was getting called by 74o in the BB, who had me covered and of course flopped a straight). Distracted enough that I didn't even notice this was on the bubble or that 2 ppl were already all in. I just saw AK and called.

I feel like I'm so discombobulated right now that even if I review the [censored] out of my HHs, it doesn't help. I just keep getting into weird spots and making the same bad judgement calls. I could also quit playing for a while. But every time I've done that, no matter how long I take off, I come back and play like [censored]. Plus it's Saturday night, best time there is. I feel like it really doesn't matter how long of a break I take, I have to play through this.

Anyway if anyone has any advice over and above review HHs or take a break, please feel free to offer it up. I'm not mentioning this stuff to whine about my downswing. I really want to try to figure out how to pull out of stuff like this.

Ok, I just answered my own question somewhat. I'm going to try a set of 6 $60s, to get my mental clarity back. Wish me luck.




Suz, I can't fault you on this hand. I think you are looking at the end result on this one.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suzzer99
save the cheerleader. save OOT.


Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 13634
Loc: guuhhhn inner nets
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: Desdia01]
      #8018255 - 11/11/06 09:16 PM

No. It's a bad call. I have a chance to make the money if helion busts. Also z32 has to have a pretty good hand. By calling I have to beat z32 and helion to make the money. If z32 or helion wins the hand I finish 4th. If I had more chips than helion to start the hand it would be fine.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rook
addict


Reged: 09/05/06
Posts: 635
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: Desdia01]
      #8018326 - 11/11/06 09:24 PM

I can't fault him necessarily, however I do think it was a bad call. Both players had him covered, so only way he busts the bubble is if he beats both in a showdown. He's better off folding his AK and hoping the big stack wins. Now if the situation were slightly reversed with Suzzer sitting on 1515 chips and Helion with 1180, then it's a pretty easy call.

*Edit* Guess I'm too slow.. Suzzer just said the same exact thing

Edited by Rook (11/11/06 09:25 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Desdia01
addict


Reged: 09/16/06
Posts: 513
Loc: bumpin' Jay, Jeezy, and Jim Jo...
Re: Some examples of mistakes I make when I'm running bad [Re: suzzer99]
      #8018345 - 11/11/06 09:25 PM

Quote:

No. It's a bad call. I have a chance to make the money if helion busts. Also z32 has to have a pretty good hand. By calling I have to beat z32 and helion to make the money. If z32 or helion wins the hand I finish 4th. If I had more chips than helion to start the hand it would be fine.




The only argument I buy is that if you had more chips than helion to start the hand it would be fine. However, I don't buy the argument that z32 has to have a pretty good hand to call. He has a 7000+ stack. Most decent holdings are gonna look scrumptious to him in this spot.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 0 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  citanul, durron597, Mat Sklansky, DevinLake, Mike Haven 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 843

Rate this topic

Jump to

contact us 2+2 Publishing

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Message Boards and Forums Directory

Pages provided by ConJelCo