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PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> Micro Stakes

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Tien
old hand


Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 795
6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players
      #7827947 - 10/27/06 04:35 PM

Some 6max Fundamentals

Now that I have decided to walk away from poker and pursue other ambitions, I have decided to give something back to community that I have received so much from. This comes from a player that played primarily (only) 6max 200NL, 400NL, and 600NL (when the games were fishy).

One of the hardest things I had to learn was the fundamentals of 6 max and how to play like a proper TAG for medium stakes. There is quite a lack of information on how to properly play 6 max TAG and I am mostly appalled at how the lower stakes players are completely missing out on the fundamentals. This post will merely cover the basics of 6 max, positional preflop play and image, and not quite on advanced play.

First thing I want to mention is position and the button. It is a no brainer to why position is so important in NL. Being last to act simply gives you a world of advantage over your opponents. That is why if you open up pokertracker and a large enough sample size, you will see that the button and CO is the most profitable position to play in.

I would also like to make a note here that you should almost never open limp. Open limping is just gross. Don't do it with suited connectors or whatnot. Raise rather than limp. Take down the blinds and move on to next hand. Open limping in 6 max is a very very big sin. DO NOT OPEN LIMP. Open raise.

For all you poker tracker statiticians out there, I play 22/18 and consider myself TAG.

When you are on the button and CO, consider yourself the gatekeeper. It is up to YOU to decide whether or not people get to enter a pot cheaply or not. And hell, why let them play out of position hands for cheap? Abuse the [censored] out of the button and CO. True tags understand this concept and abuse the [censored] out of the button. Hands that a true TAG will raise with if folded to them on the button / CO is: 22 -> AA, meaning every single pocket pair, every single Axs, every single suited connector, and a HUGE variety of high cards, A10o and better. That includes KJo, QJo. Hell, even any Axo if folded to them.

The reason you MUST do this is because:

1) you steal the blinds if they all fold
2) if they call you, they are playing a raised pot out of position and you have the advantage. Continuation betting with nothing often takes the pot down.
3) Flopping sets / monsters in unraised pots is basically a crap pot.
4) People are more likely to go broke on raised pots than unraised pots, they will bluff you more and ship more money your way.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?578668

One example of why you need to raise. Would I have stacked him in an unraised pot? Most likely not.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?578669

Another positional hand. If he doesnít have an A, or draw, he folds to my raise. If he calls my raise, I can check behind for a free card. This play is better than calling his flop bet.



Example:

UTG limps, folds to you on the CO, you have 22. What do you do?

Answer: RAISE. How much to raise, 4-5x BB is good.

Example 2:

UTG limps, MP limps, you hold 22 on the button. What do you do?

Answer: RAISE THAT [censored] UP


If they call, you will take it down often enough with a continuation bet to make it profitable. And BTW, continuation bet 75-90% of the time. They will most likely fold a hand that didnít hit.

So now that you understand basic fundamental button and CO play. It is time to figure out how to play UTG and MP.

UTG: You want to play real damn tight, fold suited connectors, fold high cards, fold Axs hands. But continue to raise pocket pairs in ANY POSITION. Pocket pairs have the ability to flop such powerful monsters that you just canít fold them in any position. Raising pocket pairs is so mandatory. Assume 100BB stacks. You raise 44 in MP and get reraised. You call and flop comes 346, 2410, 410J, 345. You are stacking KK AA 100% of the time.
Donít limp either. It is so transparent when a weaktight (who thinks he is a TAG) limps UTG, and calls you raise. He has small pocket pair or suited connector 99% of the time.
Continue to raise AJo and better. Folding QKo and KJo, as well as QJo is not bad play at all. These hands are pretty garbage out of position.

MP: You can still fold the QKo, KJo, or QJo, but start loosening up your standards. Start mixing up raising or folding those Axs hands, suited connectors.

Blinds: You want to play real tight in the blinds. Calling too many raises out of position is just a death trap. You donít want to build big pots with marginal holdings in the blinds. Fold suited connectors, Axs, call with pocket pairs obviously.

But just because you are playing tight in the blinds doesnít mean you are a big sissy either. Facing a button raise or an MP raise, if you hold hands like AK, AQ, JJ, 1010, RERAISE. Itís much much better to reraise these hands in the blinds that many SSNL players normally just call with.

Reraising these hands start to become advanced play so be careful. New players trying these things out often lose stacks because they are out of position and are bad post flop players.

Example:

You are in BB or SB with AK, AQ, JJ. UTG limps, MP limp, button limps. What do you do?

Answer: RAISE THAT [censored] UP. Raise it up to 6-7 even 8x bb depending on players. Take down the pot without even seeing a flop is better than checking and playing a multiway un raised pot.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?578721


Raising all these hands allows you to play raised pots against players that have no idea of positional or image. You will stack them more often than not. And donít sissy up on continuation bets. Bet 75-90% of the time no matter board texture. Only if 2 people call you and u completely missed the flop can you decide to check and give up on the pot.

Example:

You have A8s on the button, UTG limps, you raise 5x BB and get called by BB and UTG.
Flop comes 48Q rainbow. BET 100% of the time if checked to you.

That covers the BASICS of positional preflop play.

Combo Draws

Another thing which I think is standard to most people but may not, is combo draws.

Hands where you have say 13-15 outs on the flop should be taken to the felt.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?578686

Here is an example of properly playing a combo draw. Same goes with open ended straight and flush draws. Play these hands strong and very fast. There is a ton of fold equity as well as getting money in being a 50/50 if they do decide to take their hand to the felt with you.

Best case scenario for the hand I played above is that everyone folds. Making them fold in spots like this is what makes playing combo draws this way profitable. You donít profit by them calling a 50/50 shot. You profit making them fold.


I wanted to talk more about 2nd barrels, increasing range of reraising hands preflop, and pot control, but that is a bit more advanced than the basics and maybe Iíll write something later on.

In conclusion. Donít make dramatically changes to your game. Start implementing one concept at a time. Donít start raising 6-7% more hands just because I told you. Start one different hand at a time and slowly make changes.

I hope this helps the struggling low stakes player out there. If you keep these strategies and tactics in mind, it will definitely improve your play.


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Tien
old hand


Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 795
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7828356 - 10/27/06 05:14 PM

Next article I may write is about image and changing gears.

I really think this is important for a lot of starting players out there.


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EMcModerator
The People's Mod


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7828437 - 10/27/06 05:23 PM

This is a good article.

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Roadstar
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7828447 - 10/27/06 05:23 PM

Thanks for the post!

How about more on post flop play and hand reading?


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ronitonline
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Roadstar]
      #7828473 - 10/27/06 05:26 PM

Good read.

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wallywojo
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: ronitonline]
      #7828539 - 10/27/06 05:33 PM

nh Tien, after people start playing this way (for those who don't they will need that next one on image) they will wonder why am I getting all this action/people playing back at me.

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ajmargarineModerator
old school


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: wallywojo]
      #7828571 - 10/27/06 05:36 PM

Nice post OP.

The ABC's are soooo important for uNL players to master.


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Tien
old hand


Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 795
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: wallywojo]
      #7828601 - 10/27/06 05:40 PM

Image goes hand in hand with which hands you decide to play, and how you play the CO / button.

Expect an article on image and changing gears within next few days.

Post flop play and hand reading has so much to do with your reads / table dynamics / situation that it is quite hard to cover in writing.

If you want to see hand reading / post flop play. I really advise you guys to sign up at cardrunners.com (85 bucks for 6 months I think, not sure) and watch videos of a 10 000 NL player playing lower stakes. His explanations are worth its weight in gold.

I am no way affiliated with him but his videos have changed my game dramatically.

Edited by Tien (10/27/06 05:42 PM)


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MoreGentilythanU
enthusiast


Reged: 10/21/06
Posts: 219
Loc: WinningTinyAmounts
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7828657 - 10/27/06 05:45 PM

This is powerfull stuff. Nice post.

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Ratamahatta
Third World Ballah


Reged: 08/27/05
Posts: 2733
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: MoreGentilythanU]
      #7828928 - 10/27/06 06:16 PM

I like it.

Quote:

I wanted to talk more about 2nd barrels, increasing range of reraising hands preflop, and pot control, but that is a bit more advanced than the basics and maybe Iíll write something later on.




Please do write somethink!

Edited by Ratamahatta (10/27/06 06:27 PM)


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Vince.
old hand


Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 1132
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Roadstar]
      #7828943 - 10/27/06 06:17 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the post!





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Bonesy
old hand


Reged: 08/30/05
Posts: 918
Loc: South Florida
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7829355 - 10/27/06 06:50 PM

great stuff thanks a lot

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kaz2107
Jumpman HOLLA!


Reged: 07/26/05
Posts: 2943
Loc: Hating CO pro sports atm
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Bonesy]
      #7829633 - 10/27/06 07:16 PM

i love all the "RAISE THAT [censored] UP!!!" that is an awsome line.

and nice post lots of solid info in therrr


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Tien
old hand


Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 795
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: kaz2107]
      #7830791 - 10/27/06 09:28 PM

I would also like to add that when you guys are making changes, make them one session at a time.

Unless you are 1-2 tabling and putting a lot of focus into your game, you need to take the changes slowly.

For example, 1 session you start raising 66-88 on the CO / Button as well as say J10o or 10Qo. As you get more and more comfortable you can add more and more hands.

I remember my first time trying to implement everything at once. I was overwhelmed and dropped 8 buyins.


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HumanACtor
**


Reged: 09/20/06
Posts: 448
Loc: Less racism = less bannings
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7831251 - 10/27/06 10:15 PM

Nice post

Are you sure you are describing TAG when you talk about Button and esp. CO play?


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HumanACtor
**


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Posts: 448
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7831384 - 10/27/06 10:28 PM

Also, as far as never open limping...

What about situations where I would like to see cheap multiway flops, and am guaranteed position by being button or CO?


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rebuyboy
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/26/06
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: HumanACtor]
      #7831436 - 10/27/06 10:34 PM

Quote:

Also, as far as never open limping...

What about situations where I would like to see cheap multiway flops, and am guaranteed position by being button
or CO?




Raise that [censored] up!


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checkmate36
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: rebuyboy]
      #7831545 - 10/27/06 10:46 PM

Quote:

Raise that [censored] up!





Thanks for posting.
Pure gold, especially for a guy with under 230 posts.


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dregal
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: checkmate36]
      #7832820 - 10/28/06 01:26 AM

First of all, very good post. TY for taking the time to write all this out. 2 quick questions:

1)Can a mod give mr. Tien a custom title of "Raise that {censored] up? That would awesome

2) Any chance you would consider putting together a short video of you playing a uNL session (like iSTRONG, Cardrunners etc...)? I think it would be incredibly helpful to many uNL players (myself included) to see some of this stuff in action. I'd be willing to contirbute a buy-in at my level (NL 50) to compensate for your time, maybe others would as well? I dunno, just a thought.


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Tien
old hand


Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 795
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: dregal]
      #7833066 - 10/28/06 02:07 AM

hhahah raise that [censored] up custom title would be nice.

I wouldn't mind doing a video like card runners for some low stakes action. I still have a couple of grand in my accounts that I haven't cashed out yet, I may keep that in there and make some videos. Probably within the end of next week.


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Sir Winalot
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7833249 - 10/28/06 02:36 AM

Great post Tien, please write something more.

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ftball0000
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7833314 - 10/28/06 02:48 AM

great post for uNL... should be in the faq or sticky

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akkahai
journeyman


Reged: 06/17/06
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7834201 - 10/28/06 05:55 AM

Woah! This is gold. I like that you give hand ranges for each position, and explain why.

Quote:

RAISE THAT [censored] UP




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kazana
free at last


Reged: 05/01/06
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: checkmate36]
      #7834321 - 10/28/06 06:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Raise that [censored] up!





Thanks for posting.
Pure gold, especially for a guy with under 230 posts.



As I've mentioned before:
The number of posts says nothing about the quality of the poster's articles.
It's one of the main reasons that I've written a whole article about noise to signal ratios in the Beginners Forum a few months ago.

@OP: Me likes. A lot.
Just one thing: Limped to me in CO/BTN. I actually prefer to raise offsuit connectors/1-gappers over raising low Axo. It won't usually stop me from raising the Axo, too, but IMO the osc/os1gaps just play a lot easier post-flop + they've got more potential to turn into real monsters.


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Phresh
brains behind mspaint ivey


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: kazana]
      #7834446 - 10/28/06 07:16 AM

What happens when AQ 3-bets you on the flop and blows you off your draw?

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munkey
A model citizen


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: kazana]
      #7834485 - 10/28/06 07:30 AM

vnh OP.
Plz write more like this about fundamentals - this kind of post is the nutz for microNL.

Thanks for taking the time for doing this, mucha appreciated.

Whenever I'm in CO/BTN I'll think
"RAISE that [censored] up"
Quote:


I would also like to add that when you guys are making changes, make them one session at a time.

Unless you are 1-2 tabling and putting a lot of focus into your game, you need to take the changes slowly.






very true. I've made this mistake many a time, as learning players we've obviously got to change our games to get better. Changes take time to show results given the amount of variance and the rarity those situations where your new play comes up.
So an improvement may not show for some time, but by making a small change( I assume it's not a monstrous leak) it won't impact your game sufficently, so that a patch of downside variance will lead you to questioning the change and resorting to your old less EV ways.


I hate low Axo in CO, even on the BTN I don't often go lower than A9o/A8o yet in SB vs BB I pay acerag.

I've tightened up on my OSCs and only play them in multiway/looking to go multiway pots (CO->>SB) or IP(even UTG+1) vs xloose targets - though this might be a leak.


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gimmetheloot
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Phresh]
      #7834497 - 10/28/06 07:33 AM

Phresh, Im pretty sure you play much higher and are just being testy, but that wont happen in uNL unless flop is AQx. Promise.

Edit:

Somebody mentioned that OP wasnt really playing TAG in CO/BTN. Probably not, and you probably shouldnt be either. If you play postflop nearly as well as your opponents, you should deifnitely play a much more LAGgy style in CO/BTn than you do in other positions. Even if your opponents are slightly better than you fundamentally, your positional advantage should more than make up for it, unless you are simply a very poor post flop player.

Edited by gimmetheloot (10/28/06 07:37 AM)


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kazana
free at last


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Phresh]
      #7834591 - 10/28/06 08:06 AM

Quote:

What happens when AQ 3-bets you on the flop and blows you off your draw?



What happens if AQ 3-bets you on the flop and blows you off your A7 hand?

Seriously, I can't see a big difference. Furthermore, my cbet frequency with draws (especially gappers - b/c they're much better disguised) is far lower than with high card and pair hands.


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oreopimp
Professional Degenerate


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7834635 - 10/28/06 08:19 AM

are the games not fishy any more? did the fish leave or something?

nice post though.


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Vammakala
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: oreopimp]
      #7834713 - 10/28/06 08:55 AM

Isn't 18 a little much for a TAG? I'm 22/15 and I think that's quite TAGgy ;] Dunno.

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checkmate36
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Vammakala]
      #7834823 - 10/28/06 09:42 AM

Can any of these ideas be used at a full table?

Raising any pair from any position seems like it would be a go at a full table.


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bgoalie35
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: checkmate36]
      #7835106 - 10/28/06 11:02 AM

I've been experimenting with raising pairs from any position at FR lately. I don't have a significant sample size yet, and it probably depends in part on your image, but I've taken down quite a few pots where everyone either folded around or I got it down to heads up and c-bet the flop. I think this would also better disguise your hand if you had 44 against AK on a A49 flop, for example.

I don't think I was raising enough pf before this, and adding low pairs and an occasional Axs or SC has helped that. Before I was limping low pairs, Axs, and SC, so any opponent paying attention could tell raise=premium hand and limp = low pair, Axs, SC. I still tend to raise Axs and SC in later position though.


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Tien
old hand


Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 795
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: oreopimp]
      #7835865 - 10/28/06 01:10 PM

Quote:

are the games not fishy any more? did the fish leave or something?

nice post though.




No, the games are still soft. Mid stakes regulars are still missing out on the fundamentals, having small leaks here and there. But overall, the quality of play from 1 year ago to today has drastically changed. Since 2+2 and a bunch of other forums are regularly breeding 12 tabling hudbots.

1 year ago 5 tables was the max. Things have changed.


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Tien
old hand


Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 795
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Vammakala]
      #7835877 - 10/28/06 01:13 PM

Quote:

Isn't 18 a little much for a TAG? I'm 22/15 and I think that's quite TAGgy ;] Dunno.




No, 22/15 or 22/18 isn't that much of a difference. I just raise 3% more hands and call 3% less hands. Not much of a difference.

LAG players splash around a lot more and call more raises. But the difference in hand raising % between a TAG and a LAG isn't that much different. Both know how to utilize aggression, one just splashes around more.


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Tien
old hand


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: checkmate36]
      #7835889 - 10/28/06 01:15 PM

Quote:

Can any of these ideas be used at a full table?

Raising any pair from any position seems like it would be a go at a full table.




Yes, I was going to mention these concepts are CRUCIAL to full ring play as well. More tight since of course MP in 6 max is like UTG in full ring.

But the concepts of CO and Button are exactly the same in 6 max and full ring.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: gimmetheloot]
      #7836731 - 10/28/06 03:01 PM

Quote:

Phresh, Im pretty sure you play much higher and are just being testy, but that wont happen in uNL unless flop is AQx. Promise.

Edit:

Somebody mentioned that OP wasnt really playing TAG in CO/BTN. Probably not, and you probably shouldnt be either. If you play postflop nearly as well as your opponents, you should deifnitely play a much more LAGgy style in CO/BTn than you do in other positions. Even if your opponents are slightly better than you fundamentally, your positional advantage should more than make up for it, unless you are simply a very poor post flop player.




Lag tag hag chag is all relative.

What I described is a tight player being very loose and aggressive on the button / CO and very tight in UTG and MP.

This has a lot to do with image and changing gears though.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: HumanACtor]
      #7836764 - 10/28/06 03:06 PM

Quote:

Also, as far as never open limping...

What about situations where I would like to see cheap multiway flops, and am guaranteed position by being button or CO?




say you have 56o on the button and the whole table limps.

Its +EV to limp along since the pot odds are so great.

but then again.... it never hurts to give a good dose of raising once in a while with trash.


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Montezuma21
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7836926 - 10/28/06 03:29 PM

v nice post. I'm starting to apply these concepts myself, esp. (almost) always raising PPs PF. I still limp 55-22 in UTG and UTG+1 (6max) but i think after reading this i might change that. One thing though: you say you raise AJo UTG but fold KQo. I do the opposite (folding AJo +raising QKo). It seems to me that QKo has greater value postflop, perhaps because of the added str8 possibility. any thoughts on that or is it minor?

Great post btw. thanks


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Galilee
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Montezuma21]
      #7837021 - 10/28/06 03:44 PM

Quote:

v nice post. I'm starting to apply these concepts myself, esp. (almost) always raising PPs PF. I still limp 55-22 in UTG and UTG+1 (6max) but i think after reading this i might change that. One thing though: you say you raise AJo UTG but fold KQo. I do the opposite (folding AJo +raising QKo). It seems to me that QKo has greater value postflop, perhaps because of the added str8 possibility. any thoughts on that or is it minor?

Great post btw. thanks




I do this too. Specifically (since I've been reading NLHTAP) I raise AQ, KQ and any two suited cards, jack or higher, ie AJs,KJs and QJs.

I'm guessing that the differences are minor compared to the OP's stuff about late postion play, which is great and - like the best poker advice - rings clear and true the first time you read it. (Although I'd believe anything written that strongly!)


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Galilee]
      #7837517 - 10/28/06 04:47 PM

folding it isn't bad.

I raise all of these hands because I can play them post flop without trouble. I will fold A10o and Qko UTG in a tough table though. You rarely see that at 200 NL and below though. And if you do, you have pretty pathetic table selection. Too many fish swimming around low stakes to hang around regulars.

Just for the players starting out. As you get better and better you can start raising more and more.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7837536 - 10/28/06 04:48 PM

I would like to note that you should become addicted to raising.

If a few weeks down the line you realize you aren't addicted to raising, you fcked up.


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Bowlboy
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7838044 - 10/28/06 05:45 PM

I just wanted to say that this post is excellent. I have about 40,000 hands under my belt in FR micro LIMIT, but switched to NL for several reasons, mostly because playing 40,000 hands to grind out 3BB/100 at the micros just sucks. I now have almost 4k hands at .05 NL 6max on stars. I've been doing quite well but recently been having some crappy sessions. My biggest leak was probably how often I limped. My last session I doubled my buy-in in under 100 hands after reading this post. Most of the pots were not even really large either. I just took down a lot of pots PF and a lot of the other ones by cbetting the flop with nothing =)

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Nologo
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Ratamahatta]
      #7840272 - 10/28/06 10:37 PM

Thanks a lot for this, Tien. I've never really felt comfortable with my NL cash game and this has already improved it a lot.

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funkymunky
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7840756 - 10/28/06 11:53 PM

Thank you very much for the article. Very nice!

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OHFreak
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7841677 - 10/29/06 01:44 AM

Thought this hand belonged in this thread. I sang a little "set of twos" song after raising. Even though it didn't materialize - a good result nonetheless. Helped that I head a read on CO as being about the most weak-tightest person I've ever played against.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $43.75
CO: $44.60
Hero: $48.50
SB: $50.30
BB: $45.25

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 2 2
UTG calls, CO calls, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: 4 T 3 ($9.75, 3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets $7, 2 folds.
Uncalled bets: $7 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $9.75


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: OHFreak]
      #7843700 - 10/29/06 11:50 AM

1 more thing I forgot to add.

When it is folded to you and you are in the big blind and the small blind meakly completes, this is what it really means.

"Please Mr. Big Blind, don't raise me, I want to be your friend"

If you have any playable hand RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

Example, you hold 56s on BB, folds to SB who limps. You guys already know what to do.

suited connectors, pocket pairs, suited high cards, high cards, wtv, even offsuit connectors if you haven't been aggressive enough.

When you are in the small blind and its folded to you and you have any playable hand. RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

"Hello Mr. Big Blind, GIVE ME YOUR MOTHER [censored] BLIND"

Again, if they call, continuation bet and take it down. You'd be surprised how many stacks you will take playing these trash hands in raised pots.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?581947
http://www.pokerhand.org/?581948

This is an extreme example of blind vs blind play. These hands should be so standard you do this without even thinking.

Edited by Tien (10/29/06 11:52 AM)


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munkey
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7843791 - 10/29/06 12:06 PM

Quote:


RAISE that [censored] up
"Hello Mr. Big Blind, GIVE ME YOUR MOTHER [censored] BLIND"





I will often think of this now tks


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netstorm
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: munkey]
      #7843809 - 10/29/06 12:11 PM

I am wondering about your thoughts about taking down pots preflop with some limpers and you are in the big blind.

I have been trying to master more ways to steal pots without going to showdown, and it has come to my attention that stealing from the big blind is something not a lot of people do. I'm doing it with a lot of succes lately.

If basically everyone limps at you, either everyone has mediocre hands, or because there were some limpers before them they had some good odds. The chance of taking it down preflop vastly increases if you bet 6x BB +1xBB per limper. If not, itll probably be a HU pot anyway and you take it down with a cbet. And because you overbet the pot PF, people tend to be more scared of you.

So raise that [censored] up


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Nologo
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7844145 - 10/29/06 01:29 PM

Quote:

1 more thing I forgot to add.

When it is folded to you and you are in the big blind and the small blind meakly completes, this is what it really means.

"Please Mr. Big Blind, don't raise me, I want to be your friend"

If you have any playable hand RAISE THAT [censored] UP.



I usually do this with any two cards. Is this wrong?

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tubasteve
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Nologo]
      #7844786 - 10/29/06 02:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

1 more thing I forgot to add.

When it is folded to you and you are in the big blind and the small blind meakly completes, this is what it really means.

"Please Mr. Big Blind, don't raise me, I want to be your friend"

If you have any playable hand RAISE THAT [censored] UP.



I usually do this with any two cards. Is this wrong?




i wouldnt bother with garbagey hands like 24o and Q3o but anything somewhat connected, and definitely any 2 suited

OP - Nice post.


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DeuceSeven
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: tubasteve]
      #7845095 - 10/29/06 03:12 PM

I raise often in lp if folded to. I also like to limp if one or two players have limped with connectors and small pairs in lp. I certainly don't raise as often as OP, maybe because raises aren't always respected at .05/.10.

I play well after the flop, my stats are: 41/9/.064. However my flop aggression (a.k.a. picking up pots when checked to in position, betting draws) is 3.2.


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george w
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: DeuceSeven]
      #7846274 - 10/29/06 05:19 PM

Quote:

I raise often in lp if folded to. I also like to limp if one or two players have limped with connectors and small pairs in lp. I certainly don't raise as often as OP, maybe because raises aren't always respected at .05/.10.

I play well after the flop, my stats are: 41/9/.064. However my flop aggression (a.k.a. picking up pots when checked to in position, betting draws) is 3.2.




you won't be able to win with these stats as you move up


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checkmate36
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: george w]
      #7848309 - 10/29/06 08:29 PM

LOL check this out...

Im new to NL and just play stars $2NL (full and 6max) while I build up some loot getting ready for $10NL.

Before this post my numbers in PT were...
11% VPIP / 3.5% PFR / 3.08 AF / BB/100= 23.37

After using the ideas point out by OP...
18% VPIP /11% PFR /6.67 AF/ BB/100= 39.36

Raise that [censored] up!!!

Thanks again for taking the time to help out those of us that are still learning the basics. I have a long way to go still but its a start. (and my cards are still as [censored] after the article as they were before I read it)


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Chris_ca
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7848892 - 10/29/06 09:22 PM

Why fold suited connectors and suited aces UTG? At a passive table it seems you want cheap flops with these hands.

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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: DeuceSeven]
      #7849349 - 10/29/06 10:07 PM

Quote:

I raise often in lp if folded to. I also like to limp if one or two players have limped with connectors and small pairs in lp. I certainly don't raise as often as OP, maybe because raises aren't always respected at .05/.10.

I play well after the flop, my stats are: 41/9/.064. However my flop aggression (a.k.a. picking up pots when checked to in position, betting draws) is 3.2.




You may think you play well, but playing the way you are playing now will cause you many many difficulties in the road ahead. Trust me on this, from someone who has played close to a million hands, learn to play correctly now.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Chris_ca]
      #7849394 - 10/29/06 10:12 PM

Quote:

Why fold suited connectors and suited aces UTG? At a passive table it seems you want cheap flops with these hands.




New players make so many mistakes out of position post flop in raised pots that playing suited connectors is -EV UTG. Don't open limp them because limp-calling a raise sucks big donkey ass, might as well just raise it preflop and keep being the aggressor on the flop.

Thing is, playing too many raised pots out of position is just chip spew.

At a weak tight passive table, transitioning into a LAG 30/20+ type of thing is the correct play. But you need a lot of post flop experience to try and play LAG.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: checkmate36]
      #7849429 - 10/29/06 10:14 PM

Quote:

LOL check this out...

Im new to NL and just play stars $2NL (full and 6max) while I build up some loot getting ready for $10NL.

Before this post my numbers in PT were...
11% VPIP / 3.5% PFR / 3.08 AF / BB/100= 23.37

After using the ideas point out by OP...
18% VPIP /11% PFR /6.67 AF/ BB/100= 39.36

Raise that [censored] up!!!

Thanks again for taking the time to help out those of us that are still learning the basics. I have a long way to go still but its a start. (and my cards are still as [censored] after the article as they were before I read it)




hahahah these micro stakes guys are so cute.

That's why I posted this article down here, you guys are so harmless.


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Chris_ca
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Chris_ca]
      #7849493 - 10/29/06 10:21 PM

Another thought...

How can you c-bet the flop regardless of texture?
Shouldn't the decision be based on several factors so that each situation called for a specific action.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Chris_ca]
      #7849582 - 10/29/06 10:29 PM

Because both your hands most likely missed the flop. Your C-bets will take down the pot most of the time regardless of what it is. Most of the time they fold.

Some flops I may not bet, 10% of the time it is a specific situation resulting in me not making a c-bet.

Read Doyle brunson's super system for reference. He wrote how some days he would be so cold decked yet he would still force himself to keep betting and betting with nothing and that idea kinda stuck to me.

Edited by Tien (10/29/06 10:31 PM)


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Chris_ca
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7849618 - 10/29/06 10:32 PM

I find that the majority of the $25 tables to be loose and passive/moderately aggressive and so when I limp with 76s UTG most of the time it is not raised. Also, when I flop draws I can count on most players not betting enough to protect their hands.

And if I do get raised, I have no problem folding.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Chris_ca]
      #7849771 - 10/29/06 10:47 PM

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=3869603&page=

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iminurhead
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7853926 - 10/30/06 09:22 AM

tien, could u tell me how to adopt these strategys to 1 table sitn go's, and mtt's

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whodatdare
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7855772 - 10/30/06 12:43 PM

Excellent post. Would you consider being in the fish tank so we could pick your brain further? Cant wait to read your post about post flop play. Thanks alot for this.

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beaster
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7857326 - 10/30/06 02:43 PM

Quote:

The selected post/topic has been added to your list. You will see this entry in 'My Home' until you remove it if you added it as a Favorite. You also will get any replies to your Favorite topics emailed to you if you have this option enabled in your profile. Reminders will not be emailed to you and will go away once you make a reply to the post. In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.




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george w
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: beaster]
      #7857388 - 10/30/06 02:47 PM

tien,

thanks for doing this. do you have any tips for multitabling better? one thing is i have a hard time keeping track of my image. i guess there is no remedy to this other than concentrating harder.

also, what do you have any thoughts on the wtsd stat in pokertracker?

yesterday i played about 3k hands and ran well but one thing i noticed was that my wtsd/w$sd was 17/61. this is a lot lower and higher than i usually am.

Edited by george w (10/30/06 02:53 PM)


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: george w]
      #7857727 - 10/30/06 03:18 PM

Keeping track of image when multitabling is difficult. You just need to be constantly thinking about our image on a certain table but like you said, no real remedy.

3000 hands isn't really anything to get hung up on. I've had KK in the RED for about 18000 hands once, and I sure as hell know how to play them properly.

FWIW, the pros say WTSD % should be around 23 and a bit less, and about 50% for W$SD. Don't think about it too much though, think more about poker than stats.


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iminurhead
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7860387 - 10/30/06 06:29 PM

tien, any help w/ this in t0urney strategys?

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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: iminurhead]
      #7860823 - 10/30/06 06:59 PM

My sit n go experience extends as far as 1500 FPP satelites on stars which is as difficult as a 10$ 1 tale sit n go. So look somewhere else for MTT and sit and go advice.

Although some tactics are still applicable... CO and Button play is an almost universal strategy in every form of poker.

But I am a tournament / sitngo monkey so take it for what its worth.


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iminurhead
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7861334 - 10/30/06 07:39 PM

ty, wasnt sure , but thought i would ask, thnx for posting, good stuff

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MadMat
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: iminurhead]
      #7866743 - 10/31/06 04:03 AM

Wow, I've always felt like a fish and out of my depth when I've taken shots at 6-max.

After reading this post I played a session of $50nl at absolute last night, and finally feel like I'm getting it!

Had my first solid winning 6-max session - and for the first time felt comfortable at a 6-max table. checking PT after the session, I have changed from a 17/7 preflop to a 22/17

Really looking forward to the post flop post,

Cheers

Mat


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dardo
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7867650 - 10/31/06 08:15 AM


Great post, thanks. Hope you decide to write about advanced strategy and changing gears.

regards,

dardo


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BukNaked36
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: dardo]
      #7869457 - 10/31/06 11:57 AM

Excellent thread. I'm still struggling with draws and position.

The easiest way for me to play them is passive OOP and aggressive in position, but I don't know if this is the most EV.

Say you raised TJs preflop and flop an OESD. How are you playing this in position vs OOP with 2 callers? How many streets are you willing to bet when you miss your draw?


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Gorilla Boy
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: BukNaked36]
      #7869718 - 10/31/06 12:22 PM

Great post. It's always nice to have the fundamentals drilled into you!! Cheers!

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Reid L
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Gorilla Boy]
      #7870252 - 10/31/06 01:05 PM

This post has helped my game more than any other single post.

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lorez
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7875578 - 10/31/06 07:10 PM

Tien,

as the others have said already, great post. One question though, what spread of suited connectors are you playing?

cheers

lorez


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dodgybob
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7875815 - 10/31/06 07:31 PM

tl;dr

Looked awesome though.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: BukNaked36]
      #7876491 - 10/31/06 08:27 PM

Quote:

Excellent thread. I'm still struggling with draws and position.

The easiest way for me to play them is passive OOP and aggressive in position, but I don't know if this is the most EV.

Say you raised TJs preflop and flop an OESD. How are you playing this in position vs OOP with 2 callers? How many streets are you willing to bet when you miss your draw?




If my opponents are known to checkraise I may check here.

But I will bet 2/3 to 3/4 pot most of the time in position. If an opponent calls, I will put him on a hand. If I think I can make him fold with another bet I will make another bet. If his range of hands matches the board and he wont fold than taking a free card is ok too.

At small stakes, semi bluffing too much is -EV. But continue to be aggressive, don't have the "but they never fold" BS mentality keep you from being aggressive.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: lorez]
      #7876509 - 10/31/06 08:29 PM

Quote:

Tien,

as the others have said already, great post. One question though, what spread of suited connectors are you playing?

cheers

lorez




I raise every single suited connector from 23s to AKs. That includes suited gapers 46s 10Qsand in position I'll raise 2 suited gapers 47s, J8s, etc etc. If I feel like raising more I'll raise ANY TWO suited cards in position.

You know you are owning them with raises when they say "you raise with that trash?" after they ship a whole stack your way.

Edited by Tien (10/31/06 08:30 PM)


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Dan Bitel
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7881666 - 11/01/06 07:14 AM

Tien,

really really great post here. Absolutely perfect reading for these guys.

Just a few quick things:

1) I played with you a reasonable amout at 200NL (skater87) and got the impression that you weren't a particularly good player :( LOL

2) When you raise pf with a small PP and you get rr for a PSR, most the time you don't have set odds to continue

3) that 62s vs AA hand: that river minraise is GROSS dude!


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Dan Bitel]
      #7883504 - 11/01/06 11:32 AM

1)I'm looking through my 100 000 hand database at 200 nl at full tilt and I don't see you. Must have played on stars which I played there like 4-5 months ago. Lots of things have happened since then. And what is your sample size of me on stars? I had a couple of monstrous tilt sessions back on stars which made me leave the site.

2) You raise 8$ preflop and get reraised 22 (which is the normal amount on fulltilt), its 14 more to call, villain has 178 left behind, 178:14, I have the odds to call.

3)I hardly ever miniraise, against that specific opponent which I have played thousands of hands against, I think the miniraise was ok. Put him on AK because his turn bet was quite weak. River I did not put him on AA at all since he didn't reraise me preflop so I felt he wouldnt call a raise bigger than a miniraise.


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Absolution
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7884078 - 11/01/06 12:19 PM

Good post. I just started in NL cash games, but I am a 6-max limit player and a lot of this caries over. Some other points:

Once you get better you should probably be raising any two when someone weak limps behind you. Limpers play so prectable post flop. The limper will call probably, but you'll take down enough of the pots with a continuation bet to make it profitable. If he calls the flop don't get trapped.

Against someone who is weak post flop you can also call with any two on the button and take it away from them postflop when they show weakness. If they throw in their weak 1/2 size continuation bet (you know, the "I don't want to risk a lot so please fold" bet) it's usually time to reraise.

It's all about exploiting prectible players when you have position.

Also, exploit the multitablers when you can. They are also prime candidates for bluff raises.


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Dan Bitel
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Absolution]
      #7885115 - 11/01/06 01:40 PM

tien,

1) I've played with you at full tilt, not stars. I played with you back in the day when my sn was dbitel, and also a tiny bit in the last 2 months as well (you're the dude with the custom avatar, right? sorry if you're not!) I updated my db recently, so only got mined hands vs you, not any times we've played together

2) 178:14 is close, and most likely a neatral EV call at best (unless villain really only rr KK+ and goes broke on any flop)

BUT, say you raise to $8 UTG, most players just use the bet pot button, and if lets say the CO does that, then thats a raise to 27, so 19 more and you DEF dont have odds.

Or lets say there is 1 limper, so you raise to 9 and SB bets pot, thats a raise to 31, again, no odds.

You have to be real careful, ESPECIALLY OOP about calling rr with small PPs preflop

3) fair enough if you had a read, but I still think any hand he calls a minraise with he calls more, but w/e


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redCashion
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Dan Bitel]
      #7885710 - 11/01/06 02:19 PM

// oops

Edited by redCashion (11/01/06 02:20 PM)


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: redCashion]
      #7886489 - 11/01/06 03:17 PM

no i have no custom avatar.

the only person I can think of who had custom avatar at 200 nl sucked big monkey ass....

and I still can't find you on my database, dbitel...

Isn't odds of catching a set 8:1?


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matrix
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7888149 - 11/01/06 05:15 PM

Quote:

Isn't odds of catching a set 8:1?




yes - but for implied odds calculating purposes don't you need to pad that out a bit and look to get 10:1+ for the times that your flopped set gets beaten by some straight/flush higher set /2pair rivering boat etc..


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Yaboosh
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: matrix]
      #7888229 - 11/01/06 05:20 PM

You need to pad it not so much for those times only, but for the tons of times that you aren't going to stack the other guy.

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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Yaboosh]
      #7888365 - 11/01/06 05:29 PM

yeah I guess that could be a minor leak in my game.

But I will not fold even if it is neutral or slightly -EV if it will help my image. Meaning, they see I will give them a bit of action, maybe even if it is a small amount preflop.

The more pots you raise and tangle with people, the more likely they will go broke with more marginal holdings.

Edited by Tien (11/01/06 05:30 PM)


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Dan Bitel
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7888828 - 11/01/06 06:02 PM

Tien,

must be some1 with a very similar name I'm thinking of then. Thats would explain the confusion!

I'd rather call in position and bluff at flops or OOP, 4bet a bit light. I think calling preflop for set value is actually a bigger leak than you are making out. Just to show you, this is the chance of you winning the pot, even when you flop a set:

Board: 2s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 81.0490 % 80.88% 00.17% { 2c2d }
Hand 2: 18.9510 % 18.78% 00.17% { AA }


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iSTRONG
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Dan Bitel]
      #7896197 - 11/02/06 08:02 AM

OP,

Excellent post. Ty.


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Jigsaws
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Dan Bitel]
      #7896305 - 11/02/06 08:23 AM

Quote:

I'd rather call in position and bluff at flops or OOP, 4bet a bit light. I think calling preflop for set value is actually a bigger leak than you are making out. Just to show you, this is the chance of you winning the pot, even when you flop a set:

Board: 2s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 81.0490 % 80.88% 00.17% { 2c2d }
Hand 2: 18.9510 % 18.78% 00.17% { AA }



Uhm, you should add two more flop cards. It's 90/10, not 80/20.


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ChipStorm
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Jigsaws]
      #7896326 - 11/02/06 08:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'd rather call in position and bluff at flops or OOP, 4bet a bit light. I think calling preflop for set value is actually a bigger leak than you are making out. Just to show you, this is the chance of you winning the pot, even when you flop a set:

Board: 2s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 81.0490 % 80.88% 00.17% { 2c2d }
Hand 2: 18.9510 % 18.78% 00.17% { AA }



Uhm, you should add two more flop cards. It's 90/10, not 80/20.



One of the other two flop cards may be an A.


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iminurhead
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7904598 - 11/02/06 06:22 PM

thnx again for the post tien, it paid yesterday when i was at the .10/.25 table yesterday at ps. i raised 77 to 1.25 utg at 6 max cash table, button calls and sb calls , flop come 7o jd 10d, i raise 2.50 the button folds , the sb blind hesitates a min. then goes all in, i put him on 2 diamonds draw, its the 3rd hand at the table for me , i just sat down , i have $23, he has $39, i call. rag comes out on the turn , Js comes out on the river,i hit fh, i collect $44 pot he mucks, checking the hh, player pushed all in w/ K2d . utg w/ 77 is a hand i wouldve normally limped w/ in the past , but thnx to ur post i pushed w/ it and doubled thru him, beacuse i raised that [CENSORED] UP , thnx again

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SimonAllan
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: iminurhead]
      #7918872 - 11/03/06 05:58 PM

Tien

Thank you for the excellent post. Do you have any idea when you might be able to do the next article?


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VorShot
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: SimonAllan]
      #7919589 - 11/03/06 07:10 PM

This is a great post. I learned so much and hope i don't miss the next great post.

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Echelon
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: VorShot]
      #7920752 - 11/03/06 09:34 PM

tien, write a chapter in ssnl book

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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Echelon]
      #7946668 - 11/06/06 01:52 PM

damnit

didn't know this would be so popular.

Next article may come in the next week or 2. But I have lost so much desire to think about poker lately that I haven't even put thought into how to write my next article.

Next one probably won't be as good, but if you guys keep nagging me, I will probably write it.


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whodatdare
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7946724 - 11/06/06 01:56 PM

Quote:

damnit

didn't know this would be so popular.

Next article may come in the next week or 2. But I have lost so much desire to think about poker lately that I haven't even put thought into how to write my next article.

Next one probably won't be as good, but if you guys keep nagging me, I will probably write it.





Nag


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Djeorge
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7946727 - 11/06/06 01:56 PM

Quote:

damnit

didn't know this would be so popular.

Next article may come in the next week or 2. But I have lost so much desire to think about poker lately that I haven't even put thought into how to write my next article.

Next one probably won't be as good, but if you guys keep nagging me, I will probably write it.



YEEEAH GOGOGO [/nag]


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dedmoney
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Djeorge]
      #7949012 - 11/06/06 04:39 PM

[nag]WRITE THAT [censored] UP! [/NAG]

Thanks for the post Tien, I've been playing uNL 6 max the last few weeks for chits and giggles, but am going to seriously get back to playing seriously (took a while off, was a low/mid lvl limit player).


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: dedmoney]
      #7949886 - 11/06/06 05:54 PM

lol, i cant stop starring at that avatar dedmoney.

hahahaha


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dedmoney
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #7950020 - 11/06/06 06:06 PM

Glad i could brighten up your day, I'm certainly going to print out your post and read it before every session I play.

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SimonAllan
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8001853 - 11/10/06 11:32 AM

Quote:

damnit

didn't know this would be so popular.

Next article may come in the next week or 2. But I have lost so much desire to think about poker lately that I haven't even put thought into how to write my next article.

Next one probably won't be as good, but if you guys keep nagging me, I will probably write it.




Nagging again.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: SimonAllan]
      #8048691 - 11/14/06 12:42 PM

bumping this one more time for people to see.

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Archon_Wing
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8119282 - 11/20/06 11:33 AM

Someone sticky this or link in the FAQ?

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nyc999
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8119421 - 11/20/06 11:48 AM

Tien - care to talk about your approach to 3-betting pf?

Great post.


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Medrakil
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: nyc999]
      #8241064 - 11/30/06 10:56 PM

Awesome article. *Bump and nag for next one*

Thank you.


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InfectorGadget
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Medrakil]
      #8241241 - 11/30/06 11:11 PM

I think this is what you were looking for:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

Oh, and great articles Tien, mucho apreciated!


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Medrakil
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: InfectorGadget]
      #8270778 - 12/03/06 03:46 PM

Oh, thanks... didn't know about it.

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Speedlimits
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8271140 - 12/03/06 04:17 PM

Quote:

Some 6max Fundamentals

Now that I have decided to walk away from poker and pursue other ambitions, I have decided to give something back to community that I have received so much from. This comes from a player that played primarily (only) 6max 200NL, 400NL, and 600NL (when the games were fishy).

One of the hardest things I had to learn was the fundamentals of 6 max and how to play like a proper TAG for medium stakes. There is quite a lack of information on how to properly play 6 max TAG and I am mostly appalled at how the lower stakes players are completely missing out on the fundamentals. This post will merely cover the basics of 6 max, positional preflop play and image, and not quite on advanced play.

First thing I want to mention is position and the button. It is a no brainer to why position is so important in NL. Being last to act simply gives you a world of advantage over your opponents. That is why if you open up pokertracker and a large enough sample size, you will see that the button and CO is the most profitable position to play in.

I would also like to make a note here that you should almost never open limp. Open limping is just gross. Don't do it with suited connectors or whatnot. Raise rather than limp. Take down the blinds and move on to next hand. Open limping in 6 max is a very very big sin. DO NOT OPEN LIMP. Open raise.

For all you poker tracker statiticians out there, I play 22/18 and consider myself TAG.

When you are on the button and CO, consider yourself the gatekeeper. It is up to YOU to decide whether or not people get to enter a pot cheaply or not. And hell, why let them play out of position hands for cheap? Abuse the [censored] out of the button and CO. True tags understand this concept and abuse the [censored] out of the button. Hands that a true TAG will raise with if folded to them on the button / CO is: 22 -> AA, meaning every single pocket pair, every single Axs, every single suited connector, and a HUGE variety of high cards, A10o and better. That includes KJo, QJo. Hell, even any Axo if folded to them.

The reason you MUST do this is because:

1) you steal the blinds if they all fold
2) if they call you, they are playing a raised pot out of position and you have the advantage. Continuation betting with nothing often takes the pot down.
3) Flopping sets / monsters in unraised pots is basically a crap pot.
4) People are more likely to go broke on raised pots than unraised pots, they will bluff you more and ship more money your way.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?578668

One example of why you need to raise. Would I have stacked him in an unraised pot? Most likely not.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?578669

Another positional hand. If he doesnít have an A, or draw, he folds to my raise. If he calls my raise, I can check behind for a free card. This play is better than calling his flop bet.



Example:

UTG limps, folds to you on the CO, you have 22. What do you do?

Answer: RAISE. How much to raise, 4-5x BB is good.

Example 2:

UTG limps, MP limps, you hold 22 on the button. What do you do?

Answer: RAISE THAT [censored] UP


If they call, you will take it down often enough with a continuation bet to make it profitable. And BTW, continuation bet 75-90% of the time. They will most likely fold a hand that didnít hit.

So now that you understand basic fundamental button and CO play. It is time to figure out how to play UTG and MP.

UTG: You want to play real damn tight, fold suited connectors, fold high cards, fold Axs hands. But continue to raise pocket pairs in ANY POSITION. Pocket pairs have the ability to flop such powerful monsters that you just canít fold them in any position. Raising pocket pairs is so mandatory. Assume 100BB stacks. You raise 44 in MP and get reraised. You call and flop comes 346, 2410, 410J, 345. You are stacking KK AA 100% of the time.
Donít limp either. It is so transparent when a weaktight (who thinks he is a TAG) limps UTG, and calls you raise. He has small pocket pair or suited connector 99% of the time.
Continue to raise AJo and better. Folding QKo and KJo, as well as QJo is not bad play at all. These hands are pretty garbage out of position.

MP: You can still fold the QKo, KJo, or QJo, but start loosening up your standards. Start mixing up raising or folding those Axs hands, suited connectors.

Blinds: You want to play real tight in the blinds. Calling too many raises out of position is just a death trap. You donít want to build big pots with marginal holdings in the blinds. Fold suited connectors, Axs, call with pocket pairs obviously.

But just because you are playing tight in the blinds doesnít mean you are a big sissy either. Facing a button raise or an MP raise, if you hold hands like AK, AQ, JJ, 1010, RERAISE. Itís much much better to reraise these hands in the blinds that many SSNL players normally just call with.

Reraising these hands start to become advanced play so be careful. New players trying these things out often lose stacks because they are out of position and are bad post flop players.

Example:

You are in BB or SB with AK, AQ, JJ. UTG limps, MP limp, button limps. What do you do?

Answer: RAISE THAT [censored] UP. Raise it up to 6-7 even 8x bb depending on players. Take down the pot without even seeing a flop is better than checking and playing a multiway un raised pot.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?578721


Raising all these hands allows you to play raised pots against players that have no idea of positional or image. You will stack them more often than not. And donít sissy up on continuation bets. Bet 75-90% of the time no matter board texture. Only if 2 people call you and u completely missed the flop can you decide to check and give up on the pot.

Example:

You have A8s on the button, UTG limps, you raise 5x BB and get called by BB and UTG.
Flop comes 48Q rainbow. BET 100% of the time if checked to you.

That covers the BASICS of positional preflop play.

Combo Draws

Another thing which I think is standard to most people but may not, is combo draws.

Hands where you have say 13-15 outs on the flop should be taken to the felt.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?578686

Here is an example of properly playing a combo draw. Same goes with open ended straight and flush draws. Play these hands strong and very fast. There is a ton of fold equity as well as getting money in being a 50/50 if they do decide to take their hand to the felt with you.

Best case scenario for the hand I played above is that everyone folds. Making them fold in spots like this is what makes playing combo draws this way profitable. You donít profit by them calling a 50/50 shot. You profit making them fold.


I wanted to talk more about 2nd barrels, increasing range of reraising hands preflop, and pot control, but that is a bit more advanced than the basics and maybe Iíll write something later on.

In conclusion. Donít make dramatically changes to your game. Start implementing one concept at a time. Donít start raising 6-7% more hands just because I told you. Start one different hand at a time and slowly make changes.

I hope this helps the struggling low stakes player out there. If you keep these strategies and tactics in mind, it will definitely improve your play.




That play with 98suited was straight horrible play from your opponent. He checked the turn WTF? Fold that pre flop.

If I'm opponent I fire out $110+ on turn and you fold your sh.itty flush draw.

Results oriented thinking is no good.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Speedlimits]
      #8272396 - 12/03/06 05:50 PM

So how is everyone doing?

Killing micro stakes yet?


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King Spew
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8278010 - 12/04/06 02:17 AM

Cracko..... you've helped my game. I was in a rut and reading your thread here and baluga's time in The Well has helped me get rid a few bad habits and made me a winnng player again.

Thanks!


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BalugaWhale
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: King Spew]
      #8282515 - 12/04/06 01:39 PM

nice post
wanted to drop in and say a couple quick things

1) the key to successful play is playing a lot of hands OTB and playing very tight UTG and in MP. My stats are almost nittish now (19/16) but I play a lot of hands OTB and I am extremely aggressive raising them and reraising them. Keep the pressure on the other guy, not on you.

2) Careful with your cbets, especially at uNL. Cbetting out of control is spew. I will always cbet HU, and often vs 2 villains if the board is paired on the flop, or if it is A high with two rags. However, if you raise UTG with 22, get 2 callers, and the flop is J95 with a FD... just check it. A ton of hands are calling your bets.

otherwise, NH, start raising and playing aggressive poker


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iminurhead
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8311574 - 12/06/06 11:11 AM

ty tien , am crushing micro 6 max now, and also adjusted it to 9 max, working well, building br to keep moving up now, i will grind it out, tilting has been eliminated in my game now too.

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Sean Fraley
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8317510 - 12/06/06 05:52 PM

Quote:

So how is everyone doing?

Killing micro stakes yet?





Let me put it this way. I have a ordered a custom t-shirt that says "Raise that [censored] up!!!".


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limit refugee
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Sean Fraley]
      #8318624 - 12/06/06 07:13 PM

Glad you bumped this Tien...

Your 2 posts kicked my butt in gear, especially the "I don't give a [censored]" section. Have neither cared nor complained about the cards since you set me right, and my game has improved significantly simply from knocking bellyaching out of my system.

Thanks


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deehi
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: limit refugee]
      #8321126 - 12/06/06 10:33 PM

I must say that I am a bit more aggressive now. But,some of my observations are that my opponents begin to loosen up their hand requirements and begin to call my raises with marginal holdings such as J8. Also, I am getting played back at alot. When I do have a big hand, there is no problem in getting paid off.

Tien, is there anyway that you could discuss some of the nuances of postflop play. This is where I have my greatest level of difficulty. Though I am beginning to take charge of the tables in that reqard also.


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criminaldave
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8359371 - 12/09/06 08:39 PM

Quote:

So how is everyone doing?

Killing micro stakes yet?




Hi
I don't post much to 2+2 but read lots. Your post re: 6 max fundamentals was excellent. i've played a whole lot of poker at mostly breakeven. For a good number of years I have known what the correct strategy is for TAG play but I lacked the discipline to apply it. My brother, a fairly successful MSNL player, has been on at me for ever about what I have been doing wrong. I listened, and then carried on making the same mistake. I played too many hands and didn't play them aggressively enough. Then, frustrated, I would get stacked time and again holding big pairs ("I have AA. I must be good here").

So anyway, I cashed out a little bit a few months ago and then proceeded to play some of the worst poker of my life. Just horrible. I went busto twice. My brother set me up again, I'd do okay, pay him back and then go busto. I currently owe him 250 bucks. I intend paying him back before I move up in limits. Thanks to your post, I don't think that will be too far away.

Since reading the post on Wednesday I have *totally* altered how I play, getting through 5500 hands at NL50. I have made 17.7 BB per 100 hands. I realise that this isn't likely to be sustainable and that I have run good, but I cannot overlook the fact that I am playing better because I am making better decisions preflop, and that is thanks to your post. I read it every time before I play a new session .I am just about ready to move up to the 100 game and pay my brother back.

Thank you.


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Quebecker
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Vammakala]
      #8461716 - 12/17/06 02:24 PM

man this post is [censored] bomb ! Thanx !

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DJ_Northstar
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Quebecker]
      #8473517 - 12/18/06 12:21 PM

this is the one post that has improved my game tenfold.

thanks tien.


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monkover
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: SimonAllan]
      #8932254 - 01/27/07 08:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

damnit

didn't know this would be so popular.

Next article may come in the next week or 2. But I have lost so much desire to think about poker lately that I haven't even put thought into how to write my next article.

Next one probably won't be as good, but if you guys keep nagging me, I will probably write it.




Nagging again.




and again!


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Medrakil
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #8954571 - 01/29/07 03:54 AM

Quote:

1 more thing I forgot to add.

When it is folded to you and you are in the big blind and the small blind meakly completes, this is what it really means.

"Please Mr. Big Blind, don't raise me, I want to be your friend"

If you have any playable hand RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

Example, you hold 56s on BB, folds to SB who limps. You guys already know what to do.

suited connectors, pocket pairs, suited high cards, high cards, wtv, even offsuit connectors if you haven't been aggressive enough.

When you are in the small blind and its folded to you and you have any playable hand. RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

"Hello Mr. Big Blind, GIVE ME YOUR MOTHER [censored] BLIND"

Again, if they call, continuation bet and take it down. You'd be surprised how many stacks you will take playing these trash hands in raised pots.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?581947
http://www.pokerhand.org/?581948

This is an extreme example of blind vs blind play. These hands should be so standard you do this without even thinking.




Can you explain the flop check in the 6s2s hand? I thought a cont. bet would be standard here, seeing as you connected well...

Quote:

So how is everyone doing?

Killing micro stakes yet?




9.4ptBB at 100NL and 200NL over 28k hands, thanks a lot This post was the start of a series of _vast_ improvements to my game, i have a 9k roll now

Edited by Medrakil (01/29/07 03:57 AM)


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kabouter
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: monkover]
      #8954899 - 01/29/07 04:56 AM

Just to add some of my questions, regarding suited connectors, and pocket pairs. I know how to play in position, when to cbet, etc... What I'm not sure of is playing these out of position:

For example 22:
Villain makes it $2 UTG (50nl)
What to do on the button
What to do in the SB
What to do in the BB
And what would your play be if it was 88,99,TT

Then suited connectors, you have 45s
Villain makes it $2 UTG(50nl)
What to do on the button
What to do in the SB
What to do in the BB
And what to do if you have JQs

Mostly I call on the button when I have something like T9s, is this the correct play?
And with pocket pairs I mostly call when there are more people in the pot, or when it's a high pocket pair, but I just fold the others, especially at ultimatebet 50nl, and 100nl your implied odds don't seem to be that big.

Edited by kabouter (01/29/07 04:56 AM)


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jsgeorge3
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: kabouter]
      #8999537 - 01/31/07 09:42 PM

Strong work Tien - great advice. Need more!! ;-)

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boycalledroy
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: jsgeorge3]
      #8999643 - 01/31/07 09:50 PM

If UTG bets, he basically has a face up hand and it says "MY HAND IS MIGHTY, ALL YE FEAR ME, I WILL SMITE THEE SC AND PP DOWN". So we don't raise him, we call in behind with sc or pp. Even better if there is a caller/raisor behind him, because now we have 2 hands face up. I'm willing to call off 10% of my stack on the reraise possibility and just rebuy. You have position and disguise value from the Button.

I would probably also smooth call from the blinds with a drawing hand, but I'd be less inclined to do so, because it is _SO_ much harder to stack him.


Bet of 4bb when you are 100bb deep. I'm calling all day, the position is not a steal position and unless he is singing the song of Shania then it might be a hand he will stack off with. Obviously if he feels more than a woman you will be screwed, as you risked oop and lost while hitting nothing, folding to his cbet with air.

Edited by boycalledroy (01/31/07 09:53 PM)


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Tien
old hand


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: kabouter]
      #9096587 - 02/07/07 11:49 PM

Quote:

Just to add some of my questions, regarding suited connectors, and pocket pairs. I know how to play in position, when to cbet, etc... What I'm not sure of is playing these out of position:

For example 22:
Villain makes it $2 UTG (50nl)
What to do on the button
What to do in the SB
What to do in the BB
And what would your play be if it was 88,99,TT

Then suited connectors, you have 45s
Villain makes it $2 UTG(50nl)
What to do on the button
What to do in the SB
What to do in the BB
And what to do if you have JQs

Mostly I call on the button when I have something like T9s, is this the correct play?
And with pocket pairs I mostly call when there are more people in the pot, or when it's a high pocket pair, but I just fold the others, especially at ultimatebet 50nl, and 100nl your implied odds don't seem to be that big.




With 22 or any pocket pairs I call any 4x bb raise with 100BB stacks. I can't foldthat crud. If he is a loose raiser I may reraise him on the button. Who knows, very situational.

Suited connectors, doesn't really matter what they are, a lot of the times I'll call on the button, maybe all the time because I like to play these hands in position.

SB and BB I'll dump them.

I'm so washed up, 4 months without playing poker... No idea how to answer these questions properly anymore.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: jsgeorge3]
      #9096594 - 02/07/07 11:49 PM

Quote:

Strong work Tien - great advice. Need more!! ;-)




My other posts are not in archive. But do a search and you'll find my 2 other threads around.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Medrakil]
      #9096612 - 02/07/07 11:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

1 more thing I forgot to add.

When it is folded to you and you are in the big blind and the small blind meakly completes, this is what it really means.

"Please Mr. Big Blind, don't raise me, I want to be your friend"

If you have any playable hand RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

Example, you hold 56s on BB, folds to SB who limps. You guys already know what to do.

suited connectors, pocket pairs, suited high cards, high cards, wtv, even offsuit connectors if you haven't been aggressive enough.

When you are in the small blind and its folded to you and you have any playable hand. RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

"Hello Mr. Big Blind, GIVE ME YOUR MOTHER [censored] BLIND"

Again, if they call, continuation bet and take it down. You'd be surprised how many stacks you will take playing these trash hands in raised pots.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?581947
http://www.pokerhand.org/?581948

This is an extreme example of blind vs blind play. These hands should be so standard you do this without even thinking.




Can you explain the flop check in the 6s2s hand? I thought a cont. bet would be standard here, seeing as you connected well...

Quote:

So how is everyone doing?

Killing micro stakes yet?




9.4ptBB at 100NL and 200NL over 28k hands, thanks a lot This post was the start of a series of _vast_ improvements to my game, i have a 9k roll now




62s hand? No idea, don't ask. I had a gut instinct telling me he was looking to repop me.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #9096775 - 02/08/07 12:04 AM

Damn..... If only I read this post 1.5 years ago when I started playing this crummy game I woulda made soooo much more money.

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barryc83
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #9101131 - 02/08/07 11:19 AM

Tien,

Just wanted to say thanks for all of your posts. I really learned a lot from them and they opened up my game so much. Obviously I learned a lot through experience too, but having someone tell me to raise 55 UTG was good. Thanks.


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Reflex500
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: barryc83]
      #9106118 - 02/08/07 05:00 PM

Hey Tien...great Thread...it helped me sooo much...!

Is there still a video coming, as you mentioned???


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justscott
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Posts: 410
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #9106386 - 02/08/07 05:15 PM

Quote:

Damn..... If only I read this post 1.5 years ago when I started playing this crummy game I woulda made soooo much more money.




I read your post last night and i have dropped down two levels too really practice at it. I play FR and right now i'm running 26/21 after 200 hands and things are looking great. Thanks for the thread...


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dipstikdave
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: justscott]
      #9435073 - 03/05/07 06:35 PM

tien, great post. what range do you open raise with in the sb?

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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: dipstikdave]
      #9661111 - 03/22/07 01:33 PM

Quote:

tien, great post. what range do you open raise with in the sb?




Sb vs BB I have a very big range. Any hand I would raise on the button with I will raise in SB vs BB as well as a variety of total utter trash if the person is weak tight.


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twosevoff
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #10255336 - 05/05/07 08:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Strong work Tien - great advice. Need more!! ;-)




My other posts are not in archive. But do a search and you'll find my 2 other threads around.




Links anyone? thanks


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biblesalesman
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: twosevoff]
      #10259614 - 05/06/07 08:34 AM

Hey Tien great post, got a little worried when you said you lost 8 buyins rushing into this new approach of 6max TAG NLH, but anyhooo... Why did you quit poker in the first place if you were doing so great?

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lexxor
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: biblesalesman]
      #10388954 - 05/15/07 11:52 PM

Okay i just want to bump this thread, because i find it very hilarious. I want to add a hand from my session tonight:

I had 44 UTG i raised it to a normal 4bb, the table folds to SB who calls. We see a flop of 498 double-suited. He bets into me for about half the pot. I reraise him to pot and he flatcalls. Turn is a blank i make it nearly potsize he tanks and shoves. After doing that he told me to laydown AK. I obviously called and he stacked me with 99, but the results have nothing to do with what i want to tell you:

He afterwards told me that he would NEVER EVER put me on a small pocketpair or a set and that it was a good UTG raise. People limp in with small pps all the time. I cant remember seeing anyone openraising small pocketpairs from UTG in my limit

I think thats a good example why one should always raise any pp from any position. Simply because no one believes you


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: biblesalesman]
      #10404695 - 05/16/07 11:36 PM

Quote:

Hey Tien great post, got a little worried when you said you lost 8 buyins rushing into this new approach of 6max TAG NLH, but anyhooo... Why did you quit poker in the first place if you were doing so great?




Cuz it was no longer fun.

And I couldn't start my new business without focusing 100% of my attention on that new business.


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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #10404709 - 05/16/07 11:37 PM

I'm glad this post has had the effect it has had on you newbies.

Grind away grasshoppers!


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corsakh
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #10404717 - 05/16/07 11:38 PM

Its probably the most influential post I've read for 6max

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Tien
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: corsakh]
      #10404727 - 05/16/07 11:39 PM

Thanks, it took me literally 10 months of banging my head on the wall to finally figure it out.

EDIT: And over half a million hands of doing it all wrong in between.

Edited by Tien (05/16/07 11:40 PM)


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corsakh
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #10404773 - 05/16/07 11:43 PM

Too bad people keep asking the same questions over and over again instead of reading some stickies

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Tien
old hand


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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: corsakh]
      #10404807 - 05/16/07 11:46 PM

That's why I gotta keep bumping this freaking thread up.

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samwallistea
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #10465298 - 05/21/07 07:24 PM

Your post has transformed my game,cant thank you enough!

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ThaHero
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: samwallistea]
      #10470672 - 05/22/07 04:12 AM

This is a great post. Thanks for the bump, I totally missed it!

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amunken
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: ThaHero]
      #10519195 - 05/25/07 01:12 PM

Nice thread!! But im a bit unsure about the c.betting. I've always been thought that i should c-bet almost everytime (75-90 % as the thread says) but on NL25 on Bestpoker i exsperience that my c-bets isnt getting any respect. I feel i lose too many dollars doing that. Solution? Not c-bet so often?

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Vyse
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: amunken]
      #10519269 - 05/25/07 01:17 PM

HU cbet about 90% of the time, maybe more. If villain is a station, I cbet a little less, maybe 75% of the time.

Edited by Vyse (05/25/07 01:17 PM)


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blaze2007
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #10579389 - 05/30/07 11:18 AM

Thank you for this strategy, I am looking forward for more. I am playing 10NL fullring but lately I am playing some 6max.

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automaton_22
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Posts: 211
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #10854613 - 06/19/07 08:01 PM

"I wanted to talk more about 2nd barrels, increasing range of reraising hands preflop, and pot control, but that is a bit more advanced than the basics and maybe Iíll write something later on."

Does anyone know if this follow up post ever materialised? The original post is excellent. Search function didn't help.
Thanks!


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Philos
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #11036426 - 07/03/07 06:24 AM

Quote:

Some 6max Fundamentals [...]

Hands that a true TAG will raise with if folded to them on the button / CO is: 22 -> AA, meaning every single pocket pair, every single Axs, every single suited connector, and a HUGE variety of high cards, A10o and better...



Why should I only raise with these premium hands when it is folded to them? That is what your advice sounds like. Or am I allowed to raise with these hands if it is limped in front of me?


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Philos
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Philos]
      #11062509 - 07/05/07 06:21 AM

It would be very helpful, when somebody tells me how to behave on the button with the premium hands quoted above, if there are limpers in front of me at a shorthanded table. Should I always raise?

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Upgrade_U
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Philos]
      #11091957 - 07/07/07 07:38 AM

You should keep raising with premiums hands even if limped to you but only if you're sure that you can get them to fold on the flop or you will manage to outplay them in some other way.

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MadeYaLook
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: dedmoney]
      #12090033 - 09/15/07 12:30 AM

Is MP the same as UTG+1? In Fimbulwinter's thread there is only UTG, UTG+1. Coming from FR this makes sense to me, MP in 6 max doesn't. Or am I missing something?

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alisoduke
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Posts: 1
Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: MadeYaLook]
      #12501266 - 10/14/07 07:15 PM

O....M....G.... I really wish i found this thread 6 months ago. Absolutely incredible information and advice. Thanks Tien.

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You're No Daisy
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Re: 6 Max fundamentals for SSNL players [Re: Tien]
      #12504131 - 10/14/07 11:15 PM

Quote:

So how is everyone doing?

Killing micro stakes yet?



I am kicking ass and taking names!!! LOL.


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