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PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> Small Stakes

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Emperor
veteran


Reged: 02/03/03
Posts: 1446
Loc: Ron Paul '08
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: JustToast]
      #7052465 - 08/25/06 02:14 AM

"In Particular, don't worry about "defending" your big blind... ...if several players have limped into the pot, make a big raise occsionally as a semi-bluff. When you do this, choose your WORST hands, stuff like Jc4s, to do it with."

No Limit Hold'em Theory and Practice - DS & EM


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cts
Worth 1k per minute.


Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5208
Loc: VA
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: Emperor]
      #7052510 - 08/25/06 02:19 AM

You are defending your BB WAY too much.

This might be the worst "statistic" I've ever heard:

Quote:

if you fold your bb every time i raise the button, you are losing 8.3bb/100 just from that.





Quoting TWP, "this is NLHE. Blinds don't matter."


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Casper05
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/06
Posts: 4566
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: carnivalhobo]
      #7052515 - 08/25/06 02:20 AM

Quote:

if you fold your bb every time i raise the button, you are losing 8.3bb/100 just from that.


Not true, unless his BB is constantly folded around to you...which it wont be. The best answer is to just fold, imo. Until you are comfortable playing OOP vs a LP raiser, just play hands where you are that LP raiser.

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linuxrocks
old hand


Reged: 10/28/05
Posts: 1014
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: Fly]
      #7052619 - 08/25/06 02:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

don't worry about defending your blinds. imo it doesn't apply to cash games to any relevant extent. its best to play very tight from the blinds and avoid playing oop w/o solid hands.




people play poorly from the blinds, i find blind v blind battles to be one situation where people play like [censored]. Similar to reraised pots.

A multitabling tag who is raising your bb every orbit needs to be dealt with. Simply giving up your blinds isnt the answer, but being more careful with/how to go about defending them is important.




Listen to this advice. A concrete way of dealing with this is the following logic:

When an aggressive loose player raises you from the CO or Button, then you should not only rereaise with your strong hands but also OCCASIONALY with your small pairs and suited connectors.

I stole this logic from a much better smarter player. When you do decide to defend them.

The most common lines are for marginal hands are:
lead flop.
check-call flop. lead turn.




This is very transparent and I destroy the people who try to do this vs me.




Show us a hand you got to showdown where you "destroyed" some one.

OOP is tough, but not entirely easy for someone in position either, when the blind comes after you re-raising and betting.


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Fly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 2075
Loc: placing balls into cells
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: linuxrocks]
      #7052679 - 08/25/06 02:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

don't worry about defending your blinds. imo it doesn't apply to cash games to any relevant extent. its best to play very tight from the blinds and avoid playing oop w/o solid hands.




people play poorly from the blinds, i find blind v blind battles to be one situation where people play like [censored]. Similar to reraised pots.

A multitabling tag who is raising your bb every orbit needs to be dealt with. Simply giving up your blinds isnt the answer, but being more careful with/how to go about defending them is important.




Listen to this advice. A concrete way of dealing with this is the following logic:

When an aggressive loose player raises you from the CO or Button, then you should not only rereaise with your strong hands but also OCCASIONALY with your small pairs and suited connectors.

I stole this logic from a much better smarter player. When you do decide to defend them.

The most common lines are for marginal hands are:
lead flop.
check-call flop. lead turn.




This is very transparent and I destroy the people who try to do this vs me.




Show us a hand you got to showdown where you "destroyed" some one.

OOP is tough, but not entirely easy for someone in position either, when the blind comes after you re-raising and betting.




What does getting to showdown have to do with anything? By destroy them I mean constantly raise their retarded weak leads and they fold very often. Eventually they taper down ro stop altogether. This has the added benefit of disguisng my big hands which I raise in a similar fashion and tilting them.


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linuxrocks
old hand


Reged: 10/28/05
Posts: 1014
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: Fly]
      #7052766 - 08/25/06 02:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

don't worry about defending your blinds. imo it doesn't apply to cash games to any relevant extent. its best to play very tight from the blinds and avoid playing oop w/o solid hands.




people play poorly from the blinds, i find blind v blind battles to be one situation where people play like [censored]. Similar to reraised pots.

A multitabling tag who is raising your bb every orbit needs to be dealt with. Simply giving up your blinds isnt the answer, but being more careful with/how to go about defending them is important.




Listen to this advice. A concrete way of dealing with this is the following logic:

When an aggressive loose player raises you from the CO or Button, then you should not only rereaise with your strong hands but also OCCASIONALY with your small pairs and suited connectors.

I stole this logic from a much better smarter player. When you do decide to defend them.

The most common lines are for marginal hands are:
lead flop.
check-call flop. lead turn.




This is very transparent and I destroy the people who try to do this vs me.




Show us a hand you got to showdown where you "destroyed" some one.

OOP is tough, but not entirely easy for someone in position either, when the blind comes after you re-raising and betting.




What does getting to showdown have to do with anything? By destroy them I mean constantly raise their retarded weak leads and they fold very often. Eventually they taper down ro stop altogether. This has the added benefit of disguisng my big hands which I raise in a similar fashion and tilting them.




May be against weak players. It's as easy for them to stack you as it is for you once they get the initiative.

Ok, forget about show down. Show me a hand where it is very clear that you "destroyed" some one. I don't believe that it's that easy with out having a hand yourself.

Any one can play a good hand in position. You would love a BB re-raising your big hands, but it's tough to play when you have Q9s and board comes A9Kr after raise, re-raise. How will you make a move on such a board with air ?


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bilbo-san
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 07/08/04
Posts: 4103
Loc: In ur game, pickin off ur bluf...
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: linuxrocks]
      #7052904 - 08/25/06 03:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

don't worry about defending your blinds. imo it doesn't apply to cash games to any relevant extent. its best to play very tight from the blinds and avoid playing oop w/o solid hands.




people play poorly from the blinds, i find blind v blind battles to be one situation where people play like [censored]. Similar to reraised pots.

A multitabling tag who is raising your bb every orbit needs to be dealt with. Simply giving up your blinds isnt the answer, but being more careful with/how to go about defending them is important.




Listen to this advice. A concrete way of dealing with this is the following logic:

When an aggressive loose player raises you from the CO or Button, then you should not only rereaise with your strong hands but also OCCASIONALY with your small pairs and suited connectors.

I stole this logic from a much better smarter player. When you do decide to defend them.

The most common lines are for marginal hands are:
lead flop.
check-call flop. lead turn.




This is very transparent and I destroy the people who try to do this vs me.




Show us a hand you got to showdown where you "destroyed" some one.

OOP is tough, but not entirely easy for someone in position either, when the blind comes after you re-raising and betting.




What does getting to showdown have to do with anything? By destroy them I mean constantly raise their retarded weak leads and they fold very often. Eventually they taper down ro stop altogether. This has the added benefit of disguisng my big hands which I raise in a similar fashion and tilting them.




May be against weak players. It's as easy for them to stack you as it is for you once they get the initiative.

Ok, forget about show down. Show me a hand where it is very clear that you "destroyed" some one. I don't believe that it's that easy with out having a hand yourself.

Any one can play a good hand in position. You would love a BB re-raising your big hands, but it's tough to play when you have Q9s and board comes A9Kr after raise, re-raise. How will you make a move on such a board with air ?




For once Fly is correct. Leading weak is one of the most exploitable and worst tactics to use as an OOP player.

And please, stop with the ego. Everyone seems to think that playing OOP is only difficult for weak players. This is simply false, and the sooner you learn that playing OOP vs. solid players sucks, yes, EVEN FOR YOU, the better off you will be.


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cts
Worth 1k per minute.


Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5208
Loc: VA
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: linuxrocks]
      #7052905 - 08/25/06 03:03 AM

The check/call, lead line is definitely exploitable, I've got tons of hands where I opened from the CO with 84s or whatever, the flop was 322 and I got called, then I bluff raise the turn and he has to fold his 66 etc.

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linuxrocks
old hand


Reged: 10/28/05
Posts: 1014
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: bilbo-san]
      #7052988 - 08/25/06 03:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

don't worry about defending your blinds. imo it doesn't apply to cash games to any relevant extent. its best to play very tight from the blinds and avoid playing oop w/o solid hands.




people play poorly from the blinds, i find blind v blind battles to be one situation where people play like [censored]. Similar to reraised pots.

A multitabling tag who is raising your bb every orbit needs to be dealt with. Simply giving up your blinds isnt the answer, but being more careful with/how to go about defending them is important.




Listen to this advice. A concrete way of dealing with this is the following logic:

When an aggressive loose player raises you from the CO or Button, then you should not only rereaise with your strong hands but also OCCASIONALY with your small pairs and suited connectors.

I stole this logic from a much better smarter player. When you do decide to defend them.

The most common lines are for marginal hands are:
lead flop.
check-call flop. lead turn.




This is very transparent and I destroy the people who try to do this vs me.




Show us a hand you got to showdown where you "destroyed" some one.

OOP is tough, but not entirely easy for someone in position either, when the blind comes after you re-raising and betting.




What does getting to showdown have to do with anything? By destroy them I mean constantly raise their retarded weak leads and they fold very often. Eventually they taper down ro stop altogether. This has the added benefit of disguisng my big hands which I raise in a similar fashion and tilting them.




May be against weak players. It's as easy for them to stack you as it is for you once they get the initiative.

Ok, forget about show down. Show me a hand where it is very clear that you "destroyed" some one. I don't believe that it's that easy with out having a hand yourself.

Any one can play a good hand in position. You would love a BB re-raising your big hands, but it's tough to play when you have Q9s and board comes A9Kr after raise, re-raise. How will you make a move on such a board with air ?




For once Fly is correct. Leading weak is one of the most exploitable and worst tactics to use as an OOP player.

And please, stop with the ego. Everyone seems to think that playing OOP is only difficult for weak players. This is simply false, and the sooner you learn that playing OOP vs. solid players sucks, yes, EVEN FOR YOU, the better off you will be.




Yep, I know how OOP sucks. I often call in the BB when I should be re-raising. I don't know how to play it right. That said, why would they play weak after re-raising ? He made it seem like it's just too easy to destroy the BB after re-raising. To me, on the button, a c-bet from a BB with only 40% of his stack behind looks quite intimidating.

In short, I suck at playing the BB and the button when BB re-raises

Just trying to understand the pitfalls.


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cts
Worth 1k per minute.


Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5208
Loc: VA
Re: Stats Discussion: Defending Blinds [Re: linuxrocks]
      #7053005 - 08/25/06 03:13 AM

For the next week, if the (CO or) BTN opens and everyone else folds to you in the BB(/SB), never call. Fold or reraise.

This should help you get a hang of it (and is basically how I play anyways).


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