The 2+2 Forum Archives: A line donks take that works (plus a summery of other lines)

Assume $100NL 6max Party Poker $100 stacks all round

Preflop Hero is dealt 7

in BB

2 folds, CO raises to $3.5 , 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop ($7.5) (2 players) J

Hero???

Now, we have a lot of different possible lines here. We can just check/fold. We can bet/fold, we can c/c lead turn or we can C/R flop.

1st, lets look at these lines, before we discuss the "donk" line.

C/R flop

Out of all the lines, this is my least favourite. We basically turn out hand into a stone cold bluff. Worse hands next to never call and better hand next to never fold. I also dislike it b/c it's "expensive". In fact, I think that out of all the possible lines, this 1 costs us the most. The problem is that we have 2 more streets to go after this 1. So if he just calls, we are in a bad spot on turn and river. Its easy to SAY, just c/f. But its just so temting to put out another bet or to call a small bet, especially if turn gets checked through. Also, its more expensive in pure money value, as the size of the C/R is prob more money than you will put in when you take other lines. The last problem, is that wew next to never get to see the turn. and we could actually hit 2pair/trips on the turn, and stack villain if he did flop big

The good thing about this line is that you don't give your opponent a free card and you still get a cbet.

These reasons aren't good enough though IMO to go against the dbitel rule of "don't C/R by default unless you havea very good reason to do so"

Check/fold

The merits of this line are obvious. It's not -EV, as maybe some of the other lines might be (its clearly 0 EV). You are OOP with a very marginal hand. Therefore, c/f certainly cant be terrible.

The problem of cource is that if you keep doing this, you will be folding to cbets left right and centre and folding the best hand pretty often. This will no doubt be making your preflop call pretty damn -EV.

Bet/Fold

This line is simple and no nonsence. You have a hand that might be good, you don't want to get outdrawn, so you bet it. If you get raised, its pretty obvoius you're behind, so you fold it. The other really nice thing about this line, is that it balances out the times where you lead a flop with a flopped set.

The drawbacks from this line is that 1) you might get bluff raised, as in general, leading looks weak. 2) you might get floated and you will be c/f all the turns where you don't improve and 3) you get no cbet.

Check/call lead turn

This is a line that you see widely avised around here in these marginal OOP situations. And TBH, I advoate it a lot too, b/c I think its a really good line. I also like taking this line with sets on dryish boards and I find that it works really well too, so balance isn't a problem. The line is slightly cheaper than a C/R. It gets a cbet and there might even be some value in the turn bet, as it gets called by overs and maybe even a draw (that might've come on teh turn). It also looks fishy enough that people don't bluff raise it and if you check the river, they usually check behind, so you can actually have showdown value with this line. Also, you give yourself a chance to outdraw your opponent on the turn if indeed you are behind, which c/r flop doesnt do

The drawbacks are that it is more expensive than just leading and that you don't get the protection you get with a C/R. That being said, its still prob the best line for the situation.

NEW LINE!!!!!!

So I hope I've given a useful summery of the other possible lines so far. And now I will hopefully give you ma new line to consider. The new line is to c/c the flop and to c/f the turn if he bets and if he checks, either lead/block river or to check to induce a bluff.

I'm sure you've seen this line the whole time from donks. You raise your AK, then cbet the flop. You then check behind turn and then bluff when checked to on the river, then they call, and you think "ZOMG WHAT A FISH!!!". But for a few reasons I'm about to give, I think they took the +EV line, and you took a -EV one. I also see a lot, the exact same thing, but instead of c/c river, they lead it and I fold, thinknig WTF did they have. The reasons this line works is:

1) People raise light preflop
2) People cbet close to 100% of the time HU
3) importantly, people next to never double barrel on the turn.
4) People don't check behind made hands on the turn often enough

So, basically, this line is just as cheap as any of the others. Gives us very good information about opponents hands. Loses the least when behind. Wins the most when ahead. Gets villain to cbet. And gives us a chance to draw out if we are behind.

The problems with the line is that 1) it lets opponents draw out on us if we were ahead 2) its hard to balance it out with a line we'd take with a strong hand 3) we might fold the best hand if villain like to double barrel or semibluff a draw on the turn.

Thoughts?

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