Hobbes413
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 442
Loc: Switching to glide.
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I just wanted to reenforce to anyone who hasn't purchased SNGPT how valuable a tool it is for SNG players.
After waiting forever for my money to clear Neteller, I finally was able to purchase the program and play around with it last night. I've heard some people balk at the $79 cost and I have to tell you that I think this is a ridiculous attitude to take. Even for a low volume, low limit player like myself, this program is invaluable. I expect it to pay for itself in no time.
After just an hour of playing around w/the program I confirmed that I've been pushing in quite a few marginal situations (less than +.5%EV). Strangely, even though I'm not at all mathematically inclined, I've found that I have a good intuitive sense about which hands I should push with. The problem is that in just about every close situation, I'm choosing to push. At the 11's, I'm sure that I'm hurting myself by pushing in only slightly +EV instead of concentrating on spots that are far less risky. I wouldn't have picked up on this if it weren't for SNGPT.
Probably the only gripe I have with the program is that it doesn't evaluate situations in which a player has entered the pot in front of you, something I continue to struggle with analyzing correctly.
Bottom line, though, is that this program has given me more understanding of correct push/fold strategy than I would have gained in a hundred SNGs. If you don't have it, get it. You won't be sorry.
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kevstreet
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 2173
Loc: East Amherst, NY
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If you could only buy one, what would it be:
1.) SNG Power Tools
2.) Poker Tracker
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Merrell Fan
journeyman
Reged: 10/02/05
Posts: 82
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I'm a believer!! I finally got it and it's been immensely helpful. SNGPT, that is. Been about a month now.
Just got Poker Tracker, so many benefits I don't even kmow how to use them all. Great for keeping accurate records easily.
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jeffraider
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/29/04
Posts: 2237
Loc: The JZA
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SNGPT and then get SNG Tracker for free, though PT does seem to be the shiznatty for SNGs nowadays. I was recently reintroduced to it and man it's awesome!
Buy both when you can afford it, but SNGPT will bump your ROI up a lot more than PT will.
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junkmail3
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/18/04
Posts: 2817
Loc: Philadelphia
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I'd buy the variance power tool first.
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AliasMrJones
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/03/03
Posts: 2809
Loc: Alias anything you want...
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Quote:
If you could only buy one, what would it be:
1.) SNG Power Tools
2.) Poker Tracker
I think it is a tough call. Both are valuable for somewhat different reasons. PT for tracking results and replaying hands and SNGPT for proper bubble push/fold strategy. I guess if you play SnG's exclusively then SNGPT will produce a more significant ROI increase, but I think anyone playing online poker seriously should have PT. (PokerAce HUD is also highly desirable, particularly if you multi-table.
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AnthonyV
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 1991
Loc: New Haven, CT
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Quote:
I guess if you play SnG's exclusively then SNGPT will produce a more significant ROI increase
This is the key. If you're just a SnG person, then SNGPT is the most essential purchase you can make... besides a computer.
PT is nice, but unless you're rocking out at some serious volume, you can keep your own stats in Excel. Once you get to a higher volume where Excel becomes a bit cumbersome... the $55 for PT shouldn't be a problem 
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kevstreet
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 2173
Loc: East Amherst, NY
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Quote:
Buy both when you can afford it, but SNGPT will bump your ROI up a lot more than PT will.
Thank you.
SNGPT: I know I should purchase this. I have over 2000 SnGs under my belt, I read here every day so I think I have a fairly decent handle on some on the situations at the levels I play at but I could definitely use a more mathematical approach to certain scenerios instead of what feels right.
PT: I'm on my second penultimate spreadsheet so I've been keeping very accurate records from day one but I know this software is so much better and will help immensely.
Thanks for all the advice fellas, I needed a little push to pull the trigger.
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djames
old hand
Reged: 08/11/05
Posts: 779
Loc: $$$
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IMO, the strength of PT is for identifying leaks in cash games, most notably limit cash games.
There are so many variables in tourneys that the sheer sample size problem makes it quite difficult to discern close call type leaks from prior events. Totally obvious leaks are certainly visible, but for someone with 2,000 SnGs, those are probably non-existant.
I *love* PT, but I primarily play limit & SnGs are for fun.
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Hobbes413
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 442
Loc: Switching to glide.
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Do it today. You'll wonder why you didn't buy SNGPT sooner. Seriously, I can't wait to get home tonight and mess around with it some more.
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tipperdog
addict
Reged: 01/11/04
Posts: 596
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I've visited the web site and considered, but haven't purchased it yet. I probably will, and I'll give it a good faith trial, but I'm honestly skeptical that it will improve my results. However, I'm an open-minded type and if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.
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fluorescenthippo
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/05
Posts: 4498
Loc: on the bubble of life
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Quote:
At the 11's, I'm sure that I'm hurting myself by pushing in only slightly +EV instead of concentrating on spots that are far less risky. I wouldn't have picked up on this if it weren't for SNGPT.
.2% +EV is a lot to give up even at the 11s.
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AnthonyV
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 1991
Loc: New Haven, CT
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I mean this question in all seriousness, is there anyone out there who purchased SNGPT who doens't think it has significantly improved their game?
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Paul B.
handsome
Reged: 03/30/05
Posts: 5160
Loc: Thailand soon?
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Quote:
I mean this question in all seriousness, is there anyone out there who purchased SNGPT who doens't think it has significantly improved their game?
Me.
But I think eastbay is a genius.
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TeamZissou
stranger
Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 12
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Where can you get SNGPT?
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tewall
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 2211
Loc: midwest
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Quote:
.2% +EV is a lot to give up even at the 11s.
Let alone .5%.
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tewall
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 2211
Loc: midwest
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I used to do these calculations using a spreadsheet. What a drag! What a thing of beauty to just click a button and have it analyze a hand.
It's much better than the eval version lets on.
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tewall
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 2211
Loc: midwest
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See the FAQ.
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async
addict
Reged: 07/23/04
Posts: 483
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Quote:
If you could only buy one, what would it be:
1.) SNG Power Tools
2.) Poker Tracker
If you play mostly SNGs, definitely SNGPT.
If you were into ring cash games, especially on sites where player stat overlays are supported by add ons (like UB, and I *think* party), then absolutely PT.
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midnight24
journeyman
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 83
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Can't find the link to purchase SNGPT. Only link in FAQ is for the free program SNG tracker. Can someone please provide the link? Thanks very much
--------------
NEVERMIND
Edited by midnight24 (01/05/06 05:03 PM)
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Hobbes413
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 442
Loc: Switching to glide.
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Quote:
Quote:
.2% +EV is a lot to give up even at the 11s.
Let alone .5%.
Is that right? I thought the standard was to let anything less than .5% go because there are better opportunities. Where is the cutoff? Down to break even?
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Bluff Daddy
old hand
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 742
Loc: Texas
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.5 is just the default setting, it is def. not standard to let anything under .5 go
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tewall
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 2211
Loc: midwest
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In the early levels you have an edge, so it pays to be conservative, but as it gets to push/fold time, the blinds dictate that you be more aggresive. A big part of your edge is in knowing that you should push (rather than make a smaller raise) and knowing what pushes are +EV. So not making +EV raises to keep your edge is counterproductive.
I run it at break even. I figure I can always adjust a little if needed.
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trojanFan
journeyman
Reged: 11/13/03
Posts: 66
Loc: orange county ,ca
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http://sitngo-analyzer.com/ -- here's the link
2 things that have probably already been said before but I can't stress them enough:
I went from losing player to winning player OVERNITE with this tool. Seriously, I bought it a month ago and had my first positive month in sng's ever (500+ sng's, pp 33's, made about $2,500 --- I'm not perfect, but getting better by using this tool everyday).
2 - the support was very very good --- Eastbay fully helped me when I had problems with downloads (I know almost nothing about computers).
I told Eastbay this...I would have happily paid much much more for the program. It's a bargain.
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ZeroPointMachine
old hand
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 753
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Quote:
At the 11's, I'm sure that I'm hurting myself by pushing in only slightly +EV instead of concentrating on spots that are far less risky. I wouldn't have picked up on this if it weren't for SNGPT.
.2% +EV is a lot to give up even at the 11s.
I disagree. Nobody on this planet can possibly put PP 11 players on accurate enough ranges consistently enough to be sure of +.2% EV situations.
As the buy-in increases and you play with more predictable and/or known players you can push smaller edges because you are more certain of the opponents range and more certain that the small edge actually exists.
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Hobbes413
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 442
Loc: Switching to glide.
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So, give me a reasonable cut-off for the 11's. Is .5% close or would this be giving up too much?
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ZeroPointMachine
old hand
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 753
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
So, give me a reasonable cut-off for the 11's. Is .5% close or would this be giving up too much?
Warning: The following advice is probably considered heresy by many on this forum.
It is partially position dependant. The more donks you have to put on a range the larger the error range is going to be.
When you have a decent stack:
At the 11/22 level I believe .5% is good from the button or SB and .7% is better from the CO or worse.
Remember that ICM assumes if you fold everybody folds. As your position gets worse it becomes more and more likely that the players behind you will make mistakes against each other. Giving them enough room to make these mistakes when your stack allows will add way more to your ROI than marginal pushes.
If you are shortstacked relative to the blinds and the other stacks you need to push any positive edge you get, because it may be the last one you see.
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Unoriginalname
old hand
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 705
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Quote:
I'd buy the variance power tool first.
Variance power tool? That's the first I've heard of that. Are you joking or is this a real program? Someone please elaborate or PM.
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ZeroPointMachine
old hand
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 753
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Quote:
I'd buy the variance power tool first.
Variance power tool? That's the first I've heard of that. Are you joking or is this a real program? Someone please elaborate or PM.
I think you can get it from the same site that sells the luckbox2000 v1.2 
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Hendricks433
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 2090
Loc: 50NL 6max
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Luckbox2000 v1.5 is WAY better. It overpowers the other 1.2's. So basically I cannot lose.
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Unoriginalname
old hand
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 705
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'd buy the variance power tool first.
Variance power tool? That's the first I've heard of that. Are you joking or is this a real program? Someone please elaborate or PM.
I think you can get it from the same site that sells the luckbox2000 v1.2
Haha, ok, that answers my question. I'm a tad gullible sometimes.
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nevermore
stranger
Reged: 11/09/05
Posts: 11
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Where can i purchase this so called SNGPT
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DalaiLama
enthusiast
Reged: 07/02/04
Posts: 210
Loc: Being the ball
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is this tool applied while multi tabling or is it for post game analysis.
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HSB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2378
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Quote:
is this tool applied while multi tabling or is it for post game analysis.
The latter.
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imsobroke
addict
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 523
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What default settings do you people have for the type of player? Do you just leave what eastbay has for the defaults or do you change them (Tight, Avg, Loose and Maniac)?
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flight2q
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 379
Loc: waking up with cowboys
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My default in the 22's is to put the BB on maniac, SB on loose, and the rest on average. Then make a quick check to see if stack sizes warrant an adjustment. This is what I do when I pick a sample of SNG's for quick review.
SNGPT saves a bunch of time doing calculations that I'd otherwise need to do by hand, so it's certainly worth the money. But Poker Tracker is the essential tool. I've got too much to risk. I can't afford to be audited with crap records and go to Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
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imsobroke
addict
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 523
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Sorry, what I meant was do you adjust the settings for each type player or just leave them at the default? For example, tight is TT, AQS+, AKo+, avg is 66+, ATs+, AJo+. You can adjust these defaults. My question is does anyone actually adjust these or just leave them as is?
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The Don
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/21/05
Posts: 1656
Loc: Baltimore
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Quote:
If you could only buy one, what would it be:
1.) SNG Power Tools
2.) Poker Tracker
PT unless you solely play SNGs.
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flight2q
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 379
Loc: waking up with cowboys
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imsobroke, I leave the ranges the same so if I read a post here I know I'm dealing with the same range someone mentioned. When I want to enter something else I usually specify a percentage.
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skierdude1000
addict
Reged: 06/29/04
Posts: 665
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the hardon on this forum for SNGPT is out of this world
Edited by skierdude1000 (01/07/06 10:56 PM)
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Pudge714
Ship it Holla Brother
Reged: 05/04/05
Posts: 13713
Loc: The Black Kelly Holcomb
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Quote:
Luckbox2000 v1.5 is WAY better. It overpowers the other 1.2's. So basically I cannot lose.
My luckbox broke do you know where I can buy a new one?
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Gildwulf
BBV4LIFE
Reged: 05/05/05
Posts: 20307
Loc: Blogging
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I don't have SNGPT. I guess I am the last one.
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Onaflag
veteran
Reged: 10/21/04
Posts: 1340
Loc: Space for Rent
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Quote:
I don't have SNGPT. I guess I am the last one.
Nope. I don't have it either, but this month will change that. I'm tired of breaking even.
Onaflag...........
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drzen
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/18/06
Posts: 2704
Loc: Donkeytown
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Quote:
Quote:
Luckbox2000 v1.5 is WAY better. It overpowers the other 1.2's. So basically I cannot lose.
My luckbox broke do you know where I can buy a new one?
Dude, don't buy the same brand, because you weren't lucky breaking it.
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Two Plus Two 
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