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After all the flack theism is rightfully getting for the suffering it causes the Pope fires back. Saying that atheism has lead to the "greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice"

He goes on to talk about Marxism, and it's Marx's dogma that cuased suffering not his atheism. Religious Dogma, Political dogma causing the greatest from of cruelty and violations of justice. Yup.

"A world marked by so much injustice, innocent suffering and cynicism of power cannot be the work of a good God,"
Well duh pope, you ever think that because there isn't a good God? Everything I see can't be bad because of God, so it must be atheists.

"It is no accident that this idea has led to the greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice," he wrote. "A world which has to create its own justice is a world without hope." Terrible.

abc news

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Karl Marx was a great thinker and economist.

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Oh ok so God is still responsible for...hundreds of billions of people suffering.

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Hundreds of billions? I think not, there hasn't been that many of us born yet. Anyways if you want to blame God for the fact that all humans at some point succumb to the rigors of the ecosystem go right ahead. I don't but I'm the type of guy who doesn't blame the Michelin Man when the tires on my car wear out either.

Stu

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What is a 'god'?

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I'm the type of guy who doesn't blame the Michelin Man when the tires on my car wear out either.

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Madnak,

The Pope is talking about the atheistic regimes that arose in the 19th and 20th century. Your wrote:

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So humanists aren't placing themselves above God, they are merely suggesting that we - human beings - are the most powerful entities in our immediate vicinity. And that therefore we have the best chance of improving things.

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Stalin and Mao would agree with you. The Pope is saying that when these regimes took God out of the equation, injustice and innocent suffering increased.

Stu

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The same thing that makes us recognize Stalin and Mao as evil, is what is so evil about religion. It is not that they are atheists. It's that they demand your heart and your mind. They wish to have total control over every aspect of our lives private and personal. They want to have control over our sons and daughters. Our labor and our pleasure. We can give nothing short of obedience to them.

It's not because of atheism or because of a hopeful idea, that Stalin and religion is evil. You can put God into any totalitarian government and it's still evil. It's not lack of god or inclusion of god that make the numbing of the human spirit, the freedom which we enjoy destroyed, the pleasure that we desire dulled, offend our moral sense. These are sufficient reasons to be offended. If it comes from edicts by the Pope, or an atheist. The slavery of man is a great cruelty.

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"A world marked by so much injustice, innocent suffering and cynicism of power cannot be the work of a good God,"

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The inhabitants of this earth create the injustice and innocent suffering. The inhabitants of this earth have it in their power to eliminate it. Why should God be held responsible for its existence and mans choice not to eliminate it?

Stu

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Ditto everything good, right?

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We assume it will be in the afterlife, where God is in direct control and man has no say anymore. But on earth, man has the free will to do what he wants within the confines of nature. To judge God on earth is foolishly premature.

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We assume it will be in the afterlife, where God is in direct control and man has no say anymore. But on earth, man has the free will to do what he wants within the confines of nature. To judge God on earth is foolishly premature.

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Bible condoning slavery

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Actually, The Bible not only condones but encourages everything you said and more. Murdering foreigners or unbelievers, stealing from them (goods, virgin girls, slaves), pillaging their cities, gang banging their gives wives; genocide, beating slaves; death toll for: adulterers, unmarried daughters that have had sex, and those who work on the sabbath, etc, etc....

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ure supposed to pretend the brutal part of the bibles dont exist( or u can come up with "u have to understand the context in which was wriiten" bs )and only point out the good part of the bibles, then after u do that u say that if we all followed the bible the world would be a better place

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We assume it will be in the afterlife, where God is in direct control and man has no say anymore. But on earth, man has the free will to do what he wants within the confines of nature. To judge God on earth is foolishly premature.

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