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Other Poker >> Heads Up Poker

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Somekid
addict


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 583
Loc: -20% ROI at the 11s
NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet
      #13000901 - 11/17/07 12:01 PM

I think I continuation bet too much (probably 95%+ of time). I'm having trouble figuring out spots where I should be checking behind on the flop. Maybe if people could post situations where they don't cbet, we could all figure out a little more about cbetting.

The main situation where I don't continuation bet are paired low card flops (455, 226, etc), against aggressive players. Actually, I don't do it against a lot of players as they seem to like to get frisky in these spots.

I also don't cbet on very connected boards, like 7c8cTc, 678, etc.

One situation I'm unsure about is monotone flops where I don't have any of the suit. So, for example, an all-diamond flop and I'm holding AsKs.

Also, if I'm checking paired low card flops against aggressive players, should I be doing that both the times I do connect and the times I don't, or would that be giving my opponent too much credit?

Edited by Somekid (11/17/07 12:02 PM)


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tmcdmck
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Reged: 05/01/07
Posts: 299
Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: Somekid]
      #13001231 - 11/17/07 12:40 PM

i definitely continuation bet on low paired flops. if they are apt to bluff at you on these flops, exploit that!

i generally dont bother cont betting monotone flops unless i think i am ahead (so i might cont bet with the AKs, depending on the chance i thought villain has made a pair).

also, HU, unless the opponent is very weak, i tend to check every sort of flop now and then if i think i am behind, because
1) makes villain give your other continuation bets more respect
2) allows you to slowplay flops every now and then.


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PureDiesel
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Reged: 11/09/06
Posts: 258
Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: tmcdmck]
      #13001435 - 11/17/07 01:07 PM

The point in HU is NOT to get respect for aour C-bets
build your game around it. Well, talking about CASH.


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tmcdmck
enthusiast


Reged: 05/01/07
Posts: 299
Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: PureDiesel]
      #13001546 - 11/17/07 01:18 PM

hmm, im talking about sitngos. when you have a big skill edge, its nice to be able to play small ball.

Edited by tmcdmck (11/17/07 01:26 PM)


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tmcdmck
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Reged: 05/01/07
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Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: tmcdmck]
      #13001554 - 11/17/07 01:18 PM

especially in the turbos

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shyturtle27
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Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 492
Loc: CliTown
Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: tmcdmck]
      #13001575 - 11/17/07 01:21 PM

I hate c-betting low flops where I whiff unless I have a draw with my overs. My favorite flop to c-bet is like K 7 2 rainbow. I never get called. Otherwise in the first few levels I never c-bet with air and I try to see a showdown to see what my opponent is doing early on.

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how_can_losing?
journeyman


Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 60
Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: Somekid]
      #13001797 - 11/17/07 01:46 PM

Obv depends on the opponent, but in general, consider checking behind if:

1. you have a gutshot draw, esp if villain c/r or calls too often, and esp if your hand has less SD value than, say, K high
2. you have something like A6 and board comes 9TJ
3. if you hit top pair on a safe board and villain tends to c/f too often on the flop (but may hit a turn card or bluff turn/river). I almost always cbet top pair hands, but if villain is very weak tight, consider a check.

If you have something like AJo on 422 board, definitely Cbet, even against aggressive players.
Quote:

i definitely continuation bet on low paired flops. if they are apt to bluff at you on these flops, exploit that!


I think this is very good advice. Against certain players I will 3bet/shove their c/r or raise their donkbet on a 422 rainbow flop. Once in a while I even flat call on flop and shove over the turn (pref with paint cards and rarely with ATC).

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ChicagoRy
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/15/07
Posts: 2083
Loc: husng training site
Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: how_can_losing?]
      #13002117 - 11/17/07 02:13 PM

I didn't read everything in this thread, but there's a ton of value to be gained in small and medium stakes husngs from holding off on c-bets.

This is obviously a very complex subject matter that is extremely player dependent, but I think that a lot of players (myself included, especially in the past) tend to cbet in some unnecessary spots where we're not getting max EV on the hand.

I think one of the causes of this problem is that it is much easier to just cbet when it doubt because it's easy to identify or it appears to be easy to identify if a player is calling or folding to too many cbets.

It's generally a little harder, or it at least requires a little more patience and focus to pick up on valuable post flop (as in turn and river) leaks, but they can be more valuable than flop leaks.

You might be surprised at some of the crazy stuff people will do when their hand hits or misses on later streets, but you will be surprised at how obvious it is to you. It just requires a little studying, patience and practice.

This might not be valuable to some players, in fact it might be very obvious, but I think this will help some players.


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Somekid
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Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 583
Loc: -20% ROI at the 11s
Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: Somekid]
      #13002166 - 11/17/07 02:18 PM

Wow, I think there's a lot of disagreement in this thread. Some people are saying they don't like c-betting low card, paired flops (myself included), while others are saying those great to c-bet.

ChicagoRy, I found your post very interesting, but I was wondering if you're talking about c-betting less when one has a made hand, or c-betting less when you miss the flop?


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ChicagoRy
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/15/07
Posts: 2083
Loc: husng training site
Re: NLTRN: Situations where you do not continuation bet [Re: Somekid]
      #13002195 - 11/17/07 02:21 PM

Different players call for different situations.

I don't want to be specific, as it would honestly take me awhile and a lot of words to really put down some clear cut thoughts on this issue, I'm just speaking in general that it is often overlooked the value of checking behind (I'm not telling you to check behind as standard, just be aware of later street leaks that you can exploit for more value with check behinds).


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