Absolute Support
stranger
Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 1
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AP's Offcial Response to Allegations
Official Absolute Poker Response To Player Fraud Allegations
Absolute Poker takes all allegations of player fraud and collusion extremely seriously. Fair play and security are of paramount importance to us. Our Security and Fraud Department is dedicated to ensuring that everyone on the site has a fair opportunity to win, and that no improper methods, devices, programs and/or other unfair advantages are ever utilized in our games.
We were greatly concerned by a recent thread on the 2+2 forums along with emails and other communications we received, regarding alleged player fraud. We thank the vigilant players who reported this matter to us, giving us an opportunity to investigate these serious allegations. We spent extensive resources thoroughly investigating and analyzing our players’ claims. While our investigation is ongoing, we feel that we have enough information at this point to share with you some of our findings.
Please be advised, that we will continue to investigate each and every claim of wrong-doing on an individual basis and we will report any further significant findings that are appropriate for public review. Also, please keep in mind, while we endeavor to provide as much information as possible on a public level, we take our players’ privacy issues very seriously, and will never compromise this. As a matter of Company policy, Absolute Poker never divulges personal information about our players nor do we make public any hand information that did not go to a showdown, ever. As a result, we are limited in terms of the level of information that we can provide for public review.
In response to the allegations, we froze the accounts of the players in question while we performed an extensive investigation. The result of our investigation is that we found no evidence that any of Absolute Poker’s redundant and varying levels of game client security were compromised. In other words, we have determined with reasonable certainty that it is impossible for any player or employee to see hole cards as was alleged. There is no part of the technology that allows for a “superuser” account, and there is no way for any person to influence the game software to their advantage. We base this finding on a thorough security check on a technological level, coupled with a thorough investigation of hand histories including those that did not go to a showdown. As a part of our investigation, we also tested the integrity of our certified random number generator (“RNG”.) We determined that our RNG was not compromised either.
Details of the investigation
We combed through all hands involving the accounts that were mentioned in the online forums. Please note that only a select number of hands were featured in the threads. Our ongoing investigation continues to show that there were countless instances where a somewhat unorthodox poker strategy resulted in a loss. Allegations that the player accounts at issue “always guessed right” are unfounded.
We examined screen shots from Poker Tracker Software that displayed an “infinite” river aggression factor for one of the player accounts at issue. We examined similar screen shots which showed a lower but still relatively high river aggression factor. We were very concerned by this anomaly. Accordingly, we reviewed each and every hand that this player played during the relevant time period and determined that while the play was extremely aggressive, particularly on the river, there were several instances where the player merely called on the river. Thus, the allegation that the player accounts at issue “never called on the river, they either raised or folded” are also without merit.
With respect to the allegation of chip dumping, we have determined that chip dumping by at least one of the accounts at issue, did in fact, take place. We have determined that the chip dumping was made to several seemingly unrelated accounts. We are continuing to investigate this issue.
Conclusion
A ‘super-user’ account does not exist in our software. Absolute Poker was created by poker players who value security and fair play. The back-end of the Absolute Poker software prevents the possibility of any such feature. Our game client only receives data regarding an individual’s hand and no other player hole cards are ever visible – by anyone – except in the event of a showdown. Having said that, we will continue this investigation as well as look into any other allegations of wrong-doing. If appropriate, we will freeze funds and reimburse effected players.
Absolute Poker remains a 100% secure place to play. We value all of our players and we will continue to provide our community with a safe, secure and exciting online poker experience.
The Absolute Poker Management
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Voltaire
member
Reged: 10/09/06
Posts: 160
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"Accordingly, we reviewed each and every hand that this player played during the relevant time period and determined that while the play was extremely aggressive, particularly on the river, there were several instances where the player merely called on the river. Thus, the allegation that the player accounts at issue “never called on the river, they either raised or folded” are also without merit."
What needs to be explained is how the player was able to NEVER lose money on a river bet. The fact that he just called sometimes doesn't address that.
Also the vagueness about how many hands are in question is troubling. You need to be specific about the number of hands, because that affects the probability of deciding whether the player was just lucky or godlike. We need to know many times he NEVER lost money on the river. If it was ten times, well then perhaps this guy got very, very lucky. It was a hundred times, luck was not involved.
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NNNNOOOOONAN
It's Robert Redford ftw
Reged: 10/15/06
Posts: 2357
Loc: Hoss_TBF Fan Club
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phew, what a relief.
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Suwalski
addict
Reged: 07/18/06
Posts: 587
Loc: Simply not there
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I am still not playing on absolute, and i don't accept this.
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TomHimself
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/08/05
Posts: 5112
Loc: tell them ill be here when the...
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L
O
L
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CountingMyOuts
enthusiast
Reged: 04/15/06
Posts: 250
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So the chip dumping took place just for the hell of it, right?
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OnlinePro
Banned
Reged: 04/11/06
Posts: 406
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im still not playing on Absolute either
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GaryTheGoat
enthusiast
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 374
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Quote:
im still not playing on Absolute either
gg
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askrak
newbie
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 44
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exactly as expected they cant admit to any superaccount or even admit that he cheated somehow becouse that would be suicide for the site. so they just play along and admit to the chipdumping, wich i guess is also where they get the more normal donk hands from(where he actually loose)
weak so so weak
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Vavavoom
Photobucket Voyeur Extraordinaire
Reged: 10/26/04
Posts: 4778
Loc: Hottest Male Competitions
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Quote:
Accordingly, we reviewed each and every hand that this player played during the relevant time period and determined that while the play was extremely aggressive, particularly on the river, there were several instances where the player merely called on the river
Can we see these hands please !
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dying2win
banned
Reged: 09/30/07
Posts: 475
Loc: [censored]
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Quote:
I am still not playing on absolute, and i don't accept this.
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TheWunderkind
veteran
Reged: 01/01/07
Posts: 1492
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It could be suicide for online poker too so we actually should see the positive side of it and the players who lost money to those accounts should stop playing there as a consequence and keep making $$$ at other sites.
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ImsaKidd
CHOOO CHOO
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 11074
Loc: CHOO CHOO
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Oh yeah, since the downies called once or twice with the best hand on the river its obv not rigged.
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kurosh
using god mode
Reged: 08/04/04
Posts: 5963
Loc: mackin the bitches, smackin th...
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We KNOW they were cheating. If you would admit there was a problem and there were steps taken to fix it, there would be far less damage than this bs pr statement. Please, don't insult our intelligence.
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rothko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/28/06
Posts: 5437
Loc: nowhere, really
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::reassured::
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augie_
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/03
Posts: 5720
Loc: Peoria, IL
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Dear Absolute Support,
Go to hell.
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RikaKazak
#1 Real Estate Baller
Reged: 07/31/05
Posts: 5535
Loc: Absolute Poker:hacker's paradi...
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Quote:
I am still not playing on absolute, and i don't accept this.
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Lyrrad
member
Reged: 10/15/06
Posts: 129
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We know some chip dumping occurred by playing badly immediately after the allegations went up here against random people. The account played radically different than before and was intentionally losing. There's no reason for anyone to do so if they weren't cheating.
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goofyballer
Emo Communist
Reged: 06/12/05
Posts: 7108
Loc: THESE IZ THE OLD FORUMZ
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Quote:
Oh yeah, since the downies called once or twice with the best hand on the river its obv not rigged.
Well yeah, obviously. Anybody who was going to cheat on an online poker site would obviously use this to the best of their advantage and be absolutely positive that they won every single hand in which they had the best hand and never, ever put money in the pot when they had a worse hand without proper implied odds.
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TomHimself
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/08/05
Posts: 5112
Loc: tell them ill be here when the...
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this has to be a gimmick acct right lol?
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Alobar
Carpal \'T-shirt
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 17702
Loc: spite shoving minraises
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ahahahahahahhaahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!
Im so glad I dont play at your site
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
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SenatorKevin
enthusiast
Reged: 05/09/07
Posts: 283
Loc: Shampoo is better!
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Quote:
this has to be a gimmick acct right lol?
The account was just created today. Likely a hoax.
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holdme
and hitme hard
Reged: 07/01/06
Posts: 6277
Loc: 100k in 20 days
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Quote:
We examined screen shots from Poker Tracker Software that displayed an “infinite” river aggression factor for one of the player accounts at issue. We examined similar screen shots which showed a lower but still relatively high river aggression factor. We were very concerned by this anomaly. Accordingly, we reviewed each and every hand that this player played during the relevant time period and determined that while the play was extremely aggressive, particularly on the river, there were several instances where the player merely called on the river. Thus, the allegation that the player accounts at issue “never called on the river, they either raised or folded” are also without merit.
ummm...do they realize that the river aggression factor=bet or raise river/ call river? what they are saying is that the only way it could be rigged is if the raf was infinite.
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Alobar
Carpal \'T-shirt
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 17702
Loc: spite shoving minraises
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oh, also can we get mike to verify this guy?
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Are you kidding me? You are certain these guys never cheated, but you are also certain they were chip dumping? You f'ing fail at logic, and life.
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frinxor
member
Reged: 12/04/06
Posts: 144
Loc: santa barbara
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Ridiculous, but what could you expect? It would've been better if they never made this statement and just try to let it die down.
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burningyen
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 2324
Loc: avoiding practice
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waffle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 2231
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Quote:
L
O
L
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edfurlong
stink finger
Reged: 02/25/04
Posts: 13711
Loc: Stabbing your probiscus
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Quote:
this has to be a gimmick acct right lol?
No way an absolute employee would ever post here as an absolute employee. It would be way too non scumbagish.
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scorer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/13/06
Posts: 2530
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that OP is written in such a way that i think its from ap. The wording and language used in articulate and extremley well writen like from a corparate person or attorney for them. Ill see what i can find out
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LiveNow
old hand
Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 1151
Loc: only sort of a bankroll nit no...
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Quote:
Dear Absolute Support,
Go to hell.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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Has Absolute's traffic taken a hit since this incident?
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adanthar
Possibly Too Level Headed
Reged: 04/02/04
Posts: 14174
Loc: Intrepidly Reporting
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Quote:
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teddyFBI
Bot Sleuth
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 3592
Loc: Swapping only amounts > 1K
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Quote:
With respect to the allegation of chip dumping, we have determined that chip dumping by at least one of the accounts at issue, did in fact, take place. We have determined that the chip dumping was made to several seemingly unrelated accounts. We are continuing to investigate this issue.
I spent over 2 hours on the phone with Adrian, who claims to be the head of Absolute security. He told me categorically that he had reviewed the chip-dumping HHs that I had sent him, and that although they did indeed *look* like chip-dumping, the security team had determined 100% that it was NOT. I remind you, Adrian claims to be the head of Absolute security.
So was he lying to me, or just mistaken?
We have the hand-histories of player DOUBLEDRAG dumping to player ROMNALDO. DOUBLEDRAG is the account that has more or less been proven to have superuser capability. Are you telling us that it is just one giant coincidence that the player alleged to have stolen funds then went on a $250,000 chip-dumping spree? Why did Adrian claim that all accounts had been 100% cleared of wrong-doing if this was not true?
***Sorry for the purple font; I feel like my post is entitled to a little more significance, given that I was one of the ones to have had $6,000 stolen from him by DoubleDrag -- I then walked the head of Absolute security by the hand to the chip-dumping hand-histories to which he replied that they were NOT chip-dumping (only to have you now state the opposite, whoever you are). I have a recording of that phone conversation. If you return my $6,000 and the over $50,000 stolen from IkesToys, then I will consider playing at your site again. Alternatively, you can have an English-speaking member of upper management, if one exists, call me to explain the situation -- you know who I am***
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Quote:
Absolute Poker was created by poker players who value security and fair play.
A big lie is discovered through small ones, like this statement.
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Mischman
SuP?
Reged: 08/26/06
Posts: 161
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Like AP would admit to a 'superuser' account if there was one. Why even make a thread? Everyone knew what this was going to say.
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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I have reason to believe this is AP posting this and on the right track to doing the right thing. I hope they can address a few more concerns.
1. The VPIP/BB/100 chart
2. The drastic change of play by players that should have already had their accounts locked
3. The amount chip dumped to odd players
4. Whether these accounts were unlocked or whether AP still has these funds.
I'm sure there are more q's I will have but those are good places to start.
As much crap as I have given AP this post (if made by them which I believe to be the case) is a step in the right direction.
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Alobar
Carpal \'T-shirt
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 17702
Loc: spite shoving minraises
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Quote:
is a step in the right direction.
I dunno which is funnier, APs response or your above statement.
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
Quote:
is a step in the right direction.
I dunno which is funnier, APs response or your above statement.
Considering all they have done for the last year + is spam us starting a discussion about this is a huge step in the right direction. They have obviously left out a bunch of what we want to discuss but it is a start, better then hiding like they have been doing.
I'm certainly not one to defend these people but this is far from the typical scumbag behavior they have done in this forum.
Edited by Pokeraddict (10/12/07 09:01 PM)
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apefish
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 4673
Loc: To the pain
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Dear Absolute Poker,
Once the chips are dumped, their is no doubt the accounts are related. Well done taking over a month and not figuring that out.
Unless you mean the session where he seemingly dumped and flaunted it to 2+2ers after the threads were made known with brilliant plays such as calling with the second nut low on the river, losing a fraction of the money he won back.
Regardless of which way you meant it, you truly are geniuses.
Sincerely,
apefish
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Barrin6
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 3732
Loc: 100k hands 5ptbb+ nl1/2 b4 nl2...
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Dude they aren't going to listen, just save your time and blacklist the site
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
Dear Absolute Poker,
Once the chips are dumped, their is no doubt the accounts are related. Well done taking over a month and not figuring that out.
Unless you mean the session where he seemingly dumped and flaunted it to 2+2ers after the threads were made known with brilliant plays such as calling with the second nut low on the river, losing a fraction of the money he won back.
Regardless of which way you meant it, you truly are geniuses.
Sincerely,
apefish
Agreed, this is why I hope this was a legit post and that they are here to have an intelligent discussion about this and whether AP still has these funds and have not let them cashout yet.
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Annorax
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 1973
Loc: [censored]
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Dear Absolute Support,
Go [censored] yourselves.
Signed,
Annorax
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
Dude they aren't going to listen, just save your time and blacklist the site
In my mind they have. I no longer own any poker sites though. They are blacklisted at Casinomeister and many sites related to Pokerlistings including the one I sold them. If I still owned it I would blacklist them too. I'm just hoping this is more then a bs response even though of course I'm being very optimistic.
It is odd they would post this at the end of a Friday.
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cardman
old hand
Reged: 03/18/07
Posts: 999
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Quote:
Like AP would admit to a 'superuser' account if there was one. Why even make a thread? Everyone knew what this was going to say.
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pokerstudAA
veteran
Reged: 06/26/04
Posts: 1597
Loc: Lone Star State
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Quote:
We combed through all hands involving the accounts that were mentioned in the online forums.
This statement is unclearly worded. Did you review only the hands posted online or review each account's entire hand histories?
How many hands did each account actually play? What was the ultimate win rates for these accounts?
Was your ultimate determination that Absolute poker is completely un-hackable?
P.S. Go [censored] yourselves - I am never playing on your website again.
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kidpokeher
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/14/06
Posts: 2115
Loc: value shoving
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A poker site issuing a proclamation of their own integrity is lol-worthy.
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Ganjasaurus Rex
enthusiast
Reged: 09/14/07
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Quote:
Dear Absolute Support,
Go to hell.
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PLOlover
Novator KS-172 AAM-L
Reged: 06/04/05
Posts: 3465
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can u raise an allin bet? was the river call calling allin?
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Voltaire
member
Reged: 10/09/06
Posts: 160
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Quote:
can u raise an allin bet? was the river call calling allin?
Missed that (obvious) point which explains the calls. How disingenuous of them to claim that the allegations were false because there were some calls!
They really need to go down for the good of online poker. I haven't ever played there, and now I can say I never will.
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jfish
GRINDCORE
Reged: 01/31/06
Posts: 8150
Loc: what else is on my mind grapes...
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Quote:
Quote:
I am still not playing on absolute, and i don't accept this.
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Quote:
They really need to go down for the good of online poker. I haven't ever played there, and now I can say I never will.
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Chrisman886
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/09/05
Posts: 2206
Loc: Making money
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Link to original thread please?
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apefish
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 4673
Loc: To the pain
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One of the problems with a site posting a response like this is we have no idea what sample of hands/sessions they looked at in making these determinations.
If they looked at the sessions that were eventually plotted on Josems plot against other known databases they would have a hard time explaining the sessions, because quite simply they are unexplainable in the context of everything good players know about the game.
But I have no doubt that in situations like this- the first thing sites tend to do is seek any miniscule plausibility instead of seeking to determine how implausible it is.
In other words- I am almost certain Absolute looked at the incredibly suspect sessions and then said "well let's find minor details we can latch onto that don't fit the theory people are operating under."
All in river calls or turn all in calls while marginally ahead in which they get drawn out on would be some of these factors.
Another factor they likely used but will never let us know explicitly is the other sessions in which it was clear the player knew he was suspected of cheating (the night half of 2+2 was aware he was on and playing) or isn't within the period of suspected cheating. In short- I am almost certain they used sessions where the accounts lost money as evidence in favor of not cheating without looking at the underlying play.
This way they can come back and say "well the person played the same unorthodox poker in another session and lost- therefore your claim cannot be true."
That they use the words unorthodox/fortunate result/etc to me indicates either a vast misunderstanding of the game or a attempt to tell us the same.
You can have fortunate results while playing "unorthodox". But unorthdox isn't a catch-all for all suspicious/maniacal/otherwise inexplicible styles of play.
And it certainly shouldn't be used as a phrase when the sessions in which the account was already exposed in these threads and loses are "unorthodox" in a much much different way than the winning sessions were.
When I sit down and do flips with other 2+2ers surely that is "unorthodox" play. And I can have a "fortunate result" with my unorthodox play of hands in them. But it is explainable given context of that single session.
Absolute has failed to address that these winning sessions tend to be unexplainable on their own, and that is a mild shortcoming on Absolute's part.
But the big failure is they have completely missed the sequential context of all the actions of the suspected accounts. And that is unforgivable.
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Great post Apefish.
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OnlinePro
Banned
Reged: 04/11/06
Posts: 406
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Quote:
AP's Offcial Response to Allegations
Official Absolute Poker Response To Player Fraud Allegations
Absolute Poker takes all allegations of player fraud and collusion extremely seriously. Fair play and security are of paramount importance to us. Our Security and Fraud Department is dedicated to ensuring that everyone on the site has a fair opportunity to win, and that no improper methods, devices, programs and/or other unfair advantages are ever utilized in our games.
We were greatly concerned by a recent thread on the 2+2 forums along with emails and other communications we received, regarding alleged player fraud. We thank the vigilant players who reported this matter to us, giving us an opportunity to investigate these serious allegations. We spent extensive resources thoroughly investigating and analyzing our players’ claims. While our investigation is ongoing, we feel that we have enough information at this point to share with you some of our findings.
Please be advised, that we will continue to investigate each and every claim of wrong-doing on an individual basis and we will report any further significant findings that are appropriate for public review. Also, please keep in mind, while we endeavor to provide as much information as possible on a public level, we take our players’ privacy issues very seriously, and will never compromise this. As a matter of Company policy, Absolute Poker never divulges personal information about our players nor do we make public any hand information that did not go to a showdown, ever. As a result, we are limited in terms of the level of information that we can provide for public review.
In response to the allegations, we froze the accounts of the players in question while we performed an extensive investigation. The result of our investigation is that we found no evidence that any of Absolute Poker’s redundant and varying levels of game client security were compromised. In other words, we have determined with reasonable certainty that it is impossible for any player or employee to see hole cards as was alleged. There is no part of the technology that allows for a “superuser” account, and there is no way for any person to influence the game software to their advantage. We base this finding on a thorough security check on a technological level, coupled with a thorough investigation of hand histories including those that did not go to a showdown. As a part of our investigation, we also tested the integrity of our certified random number generator (“RNG”.) We determined that our RNG was not compromised either.
Details of the investigation
We combed through all hands involving the accounts that were mentioned in the online forums. Please note that only a select number of hands were featured in the threads. Our ongoing investigation continues to show that there were countless instances where a somewhat unorthodox poker strategy resulted in a loss. Allegations that the player accounts at issue “always guessed right” are unfounded.
We examined screen shots from Poker Tracker Software that displayed an “infinite” river aggression factor for one of the player accounts at issue. We examined similar screen shots which showed a lower but still relatively high river aggression factor. We were very concerned by this anomaly. Accordingly, we reviewed each and every hand that this player played during the relevant time period and determined that while the play was extremely aggressive, particularly on the river, there were several instances where the player merely called on the river. Thus, the allegation that the player accounts at issue “never called on the river, they either raised or folded” are also without merit.
With respect to the allegation of chip dumping, we have determined that chip dumping by at least one of the accounts at issue, did in fact, take place. We have determined that the chip dumping was made to several seemingly unrelated accounts. We are continuing to investigate this issue.
Conclusion
A ‘super-user’ account does not exist in our software. Absolute Poker was created by poker players who value security and fair play. The back-end of the Absolute Poker software prevents the possibility of any such feature. Our game client only receives data regarding an individual’s hand and no other player hole cards are ever visible – by anyone – except in the event of a showdown. Having said that, we will continue this investigation as well as look into any other allegations of wrong-doing. If appropriate, we will freeze funds and reimburse effected players.
Absolute Poker remains a 100% secure place to play. We value all of our players and we will continue to provide our community with a safe, secure and exciting online poker experience.
The Absolute Poker Management
Absolute support please do not insult our intellegence with stupid posts like these. At least take the time to think about what you are saying. Second of clear through the [censored] of the first 2 paragraphs, we dont need you to continue to repeat your T an C especially when you dont honor them yourselves with the amount of times you have changed on us.
It is clear the direction you are taking your poker room and I for one will not be a part of it. This may not be a bad choice on your part because losing all players from this site will actually help your site. So I am not sure if this post was meant to anger us into not playing even more or what. Please continue your great business ethics and good luck to you. For your next marketing meeting talk about how you can decrease rewards for higher volume players even more.
Overall Good work. Profits go up... Customer satisfaction down.
Im not mad them.
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Coy_Roy
old hand
Reged: 10/01/06
Posts: 727
Loc: DC/AC
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Quote:
This may not be a bad choice on your part because losing all players from this site will actually help your site.
Huh?
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GaryTheGoat
enthusiast
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 374
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Quote:
Quote:
This may not be a bad choice on your part because losing all players from this site will actually help your site.
Huh?
Losing 2p2 players will help Absolute?
gg
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augie_
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/03
Posts: 5720
Loc: Peoria, IL
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Let's not forget, if it weren't for Dan Druff where would we be with this? Nowhere! Over/under on length of time before Druff has an unfortunate "accident?" Druff, stay away from anyone wearing AP gear who's carrying pulonium!!!
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
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AP -
To repeat what you seem to be claiming:
They didn't do any cheating. They just won with some really really bizarre play.
But there was chip-dumping involved and this was somehow completely unrelated to their unorthodox play?
Seems kind of a stretch, no?
Can you elaborate some on the hands in which they 'only called' at the river?
Did they call in multi-hand situations where there was still another player left to act? If that's the case then their failure to push all-in could have been in an effort to induce a call from the 3rd player.
OR it was just a call of somebody else's all-in as should be obvious and was pointed out earlier.
Was a very simple look at some of these river 'calls' looked at to see if a failure to push with the best hand perhaps came with a reason?
Did these players ever call with a losing hand during the time-period in question?
As you can see from the responses in this thread, many a 2+2'er is not particularly satisfied with your response. But we do appreciate your appearance here and do hope you will continue the dialogue.
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OOPSYDOOPSYBRO
journeyman
Reged: 09/08/07
Posts: 51
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Quote:
Dear Absolute Support,
Go to hell.
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repulse
member
Reged: 07/05/06
Posts: 190
Loc: Draw a card.
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Anything less than a comprehensive statistical analysis, complete with methodology and numerical likelihood results, is insufficient IMHO. Absolute has had enough time to perform this.
The bottom line here is that it is an extreme statistical improbability that the players in question could NOT see their opponents cards given how they acted. An informal report based on a nonscientific analysis really carries no merit for something like this.
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jafeather
veteran
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 1391
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OMG please let OP be a gimmick account. If that's the best job AP can do in explaining this mess then they have ABSOLUTEly made things worse. Their reply neither makes sense, nor holds water.
If OP is a gimmick...good job.
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WhoIam
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/19/05
Posts: 2152
Loc: Vientiane
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Am I the only one who thinks there's a good chance this isn't actually from AP, especially since it contradicts what TeddyFBI was told by them?
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
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i think that teddy being told something different by a different person in their organization carries absolutely zero weight in determining whether the original post is legit or not.
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Leader
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/03/05
Posts: 7682
Loc: Excellence: Learn, Play, Win.
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ip is Costa Rican. email is at from absolutepoker.com FWIW
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xxeximusxx
addict
Reged: 03/10/07
Posts: 460
Loc: i ain't got my taco
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It's amazing how easily AP is getting away with this, their is really nothing we can do. They are not gonna lose a significant ammount of traffic as most players do not know or do not really care.
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DMoogle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/04/06
Posts: 2462
Loc: Oakton, VA, USA
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I have a feeling the only calling on the river he's referring to is when the superuser accounts are calling an all-in bet with the best hand.
I've never played at Absolute Poker, and after all that I've heard of them, I never will.
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sethypooh21
idiotplayer
Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 5757
Loc: World Series GOGOGOGO
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Move along people, nothing to see here...
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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I feel insulted just reading this...
AP even has the nerve to "hide" behind there privacy clause even adds emphasis with the "ever"...
Wonder how they proved "chip dumping" if the "other" actions were legit?????
I for one will never play at AP or UB again....
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bills217
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 3294
Loc: taking DVaut's money
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Quote:
Am I the only one who thinks there's a good chance this isn't actually from AP, especially since it contradicts what TeddyFBI was told by them?
Constitutes excellent evidence the post IS from AP IMO.
I'll never play at Absolute again.
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ActionJeff
veteran
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 1467
Loc: though my mind could think I s...
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lol, 910o high call was obviously totally legit
It seems to me clear that:
(1) Absolutes connection to this is unclear, but they are obviously witholding information and any investigation is biased
(2) The accounts in question re banned and Absolute will claim that chipdumping allegations and a continuing investigation is the reason for this
(3) We can't know if the superuser account is still out there. For all we know it never even logged in to play and was just used to view tables while other normal accounts were used to cheat
(4) Absolute would obviously never admit such a compromise of their system was possible, so this is no surprise
(5) For anyone questioning this, PLEASE read over the original threads and hand histories and realize there is NO WAY this guy couldn't see hole cards!
I for one will never play on Absolute again, and I can only hope that others feel the same way
-Jeff
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ebepse
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/14/07
Posts: 4864
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Dear Absolute Support,
Go to hell.
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elephantsRcute
newbie
Reged: 10/07/07
Posts: 37
Loc: africa
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absolute: nice try
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Tappy Tibbons
member
Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 188
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It just goes to show, if you want the truth, get it from the authority on the subject
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La Brujita
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/15/03
Posts: 3840
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Quote:
im still not playing on Absolute either
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R*R
addict
Reged: 03/04/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Higher Ground
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What a waste! Its too bad you can't afford to hire an independent international accounting/systems firm to provide an opinon on your systems and the "superuser" account situation. Maybe you should give up a day's rake and pay to get this done independently and objectively . Your own reports provide no assurance whatoever and for you to think that they do just continues to perpetuate your complete incompetency.
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scpi10
addict
Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 545
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Dear Absolute Support,
Go to hell.
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R*R
addict
Reged: 03/04/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Higher Ground
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I wasn't being completely fair. You have done one thing right:
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LongTimeLurker72
member
Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Georgia, U.S.
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Quote:
I wasn't being completely fair. You have done one thing right:
Thank you for single-handedly saving this thread. You are my hero 
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Nina
enthusiast
Reged: 12/10/06
Posts: 333
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Is the guy with the alleged superuser accounts still playing at AP? If not -I wonder why.
Why would he dump chips to random players?
As others have stated as well, APs "answer" doesn't smell very good.
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TheTruthSpeaks
member
Reged: 01/14/05
Posts: 120
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Really no reason for anyone to try and argue/reason with the Rep. from AP. OF COURSE they are going to deny the claims, I mean, it's their only choice. If they admitted that thier site was compromised(which it most obviously was)they would lose all customers that would read about it. By denying it they'll probably get a few downies to keep playing there.
I think all energies should be spent on getting Absolutepoker.com blacklisted through all possible avenues.
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WhoIam
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/19/05
Posts: 2152
Loc: Vientiane
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Absolute Poker is the Larry Craig of online gambling.
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El_Hombre_Grande
old hand
Reged: 10/04/05
Posts: 1091
Loc: On another hopeless bluff.
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I don't think their only option was to cover up and lie. I don't know what online poker is going to look like 10 years from now, but it is going to exist, will probably be regulated in some fashion and will be a massive massive market, and rogue sites like AP hopefully will be a thing of the past. I don't think the fact that AP was hacked in some way was the death knell for them. Their obvious lack of concern and integrity is. I would have been far more accepting of a response that was timely and acknowledged the actual evidence instead of sidestepping it. I can only conclude that the conspiracy inside job theory is right or they don't care if their players are getting screwed by a third party, as long as the screwer and screwee paid their rake. Either way, I can only assume that an unacknowledged problem is also an uncorrected problem.
Hopefully, that will be the end of them. as online poker is fighting for legality in the good old USA, the last thing we need is operators whose response is to cover up and lie. Its not like they had much going for them in the first place; now they are just a shady albatross.
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HEK
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/12/04
Posts: 4800
Loc: selling cake $ @ 5% vig
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Quote:
Quote:
I am still not playing on absolute, and i don't accept this.
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Hopey
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 7171
Loc: Approving of Iron's moderation
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What's hilarious is that the idiot who wrote the OP thought that we'd all immediately fall into line and believe their BS. It's insulting.
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carlgraham
member
Reged: 06/09/05
Posts: 141
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
What's hilarious is that the idiot who wrote the OP thought that we'd all immediately fall into line and believe their BS. It's insulting.
Don't be so sure of that. The OP was probably intended for a wider audience that has not studied the hands - i.e. they intend to use it to marginalize 2P2, and claim that hypervigilant but mistaken nuts found cheating on the basis of a tiny sample where there was none.
The reality is that EVERY poker expert who reviewed the hands here found that the play and statistics were virtually impossible without knowledge of hole cards. This kind of unanimity is rare - you probably couldn't find that many experts who would all agree the sky is blue!
This story should be big, but the lack of interest from Card Player and other poker authorities is concerning. Do they really care more about their ads than about poker players, and could therefore condone cheating? Why hasn't Mason weighed in on it? (If I missed any statements from him, I apologize). He's always been pretty quick to condemn shady practices in the past, and to make sure the proper people know of them. It would at least be nice to hear Mason explain his silence - does he doubt the analysis of so many of his posters here, or is he afraid of wider ramifications if online poker could be shown to be cheating?
The OP smacks of a statement written by a PR hack, intended to put the issue to rest, not the opening of a genuine dialog.
Cheers, Carl.
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Injection
old hand
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 1021
Loc: All-In Blind
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Quote:
I have a feeling the only calling on the river he's referring to is when the superuser accounts are calling an all-in bet with the best hand.
I've never played at Absolute Poker, and after all that I've heard of them, I never will.
He probably made a few river calls with 3rd pair and other junk that's ahead, specifically to show the hand down and tilt opponents. AP wouldn't notice this of course, to them it just looks standard - "I has a pair".
If AP reads this, please send my regards to UB for the $10 they put in my account today and I donked off in 5mins.. I'll keep playing there if you fund my old account 
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jcmoussa
die shortstackers die
Reged: 05/09/04
Posts: 1580
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still boycotting absolute. mark seif, youre dead to me.
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Ganjasaurus Rex
enthusiast
Reged: 09/14/07
Posts: 336
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Quote:
This story should be big, but the lack of interest from Card Player and other poker authorities is concerning. Do they really care more about their ads than about poker players, and could therefore condone cheating?
Do you really need to even ask that when the answer is so obviously a great big YES?
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hiho
addict
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 587
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AP has more of the facts, and hands then everyone else so they're obviously telling the truth.
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momo_the_kid
member
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 110
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This statement is a joke.
AP, you really think we are that dumb to believe this BS? LOL.
We KNOW they cheated. We need a statement on how you guys are gonna do about it and not this blah blah they didn't cheat BS.
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scampini
stranger
Reged: 08/19/06
Posts: 8
Loc: Chicago, IL
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People with the right education can hack the phone company's central database and steal loads of personal information to sell, they can hack into government mainframes and compromise national security, and can turn any webpage into a hoax-site advertising porn and their hacker militia.
But hacking Absolute Poker? OH NO THATS IMPOSSIBLE SIR.
I'm confident hacking online poker has been going on for years. This idiot just made it obvious and got caught.
We should be happy that finally someone pulling it off was stupid enough to get caught up in the game. Every other time someone yanked money off high stakes players, they made DAMN SURE you didn't figure it out.
Maybe now, online poker security will be more of an issue than it has been in the past. I don't know about you, but some faceless entity assuring me that "of course its safe duh this is a business" doesn't really sit well with me.
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highhustla
old hand
Reged: 07/31/05
Posts: 993
Loc: San Diago
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Quote:
doot doot doooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Quote:
With respect to the allegation of chip dumping, we have determined that chip dumping by at least one of the accounts at issue, did in fact, take place. We have determined that the chip dumping was made to several seemingly unrelated accounts. We are continuing to investigate this issue.
Ah, thank god. So Mr. Seif has gotten everything he won w/ the superuser account returned to him?
I hope you bitches sleep well at night, now.
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Ansky
Not ACTUALLY Canadian
Reged: 04/09/04
Posts: 13541
Loc: pokersavvyplus.com!
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Absolute,
Ever wonder why ftp gets 75k users at peak times, and stars gets 125k? It is because they are legit sites.
Edited by Mike Haven (10/13/07 05:45 PM)
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Stosh
enthusiast
Reged: 11/19/04
Posts: 379
Loc: Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I am still not playing on absolute, and i don't accept this.
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sethypooh21
idiotplayer
Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 5757
Loc: World Series GOGOGOGO
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Quote:
I wasn't being completely fair. You have done one thing right:
Quien es? Edit: Serinda Swan, ty image properties
Edited by sethypooh21 (10/13/07 05:16 PM)
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Rednax
enthusiast
Reged: 09/11/04
Posts: 282
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Quote:
Quote:
With respect to the allegation of chip dumping, we have determined that chip dumping by at least one of the accounts at issue, did in fact, take place. We have determined that the chip dumping was made to several seemingly unrelated accounts. We are continuing to investigate this issue.
I spent over 2 hours on the phone with Adrian, who claims to be the head of Absolute security. He told me categorically that he had reviewed the chip-dumping HHs that I had sent him, and that although they did indeed *look* like chip-dumping, the security team had determined 100% that it was NOT. I remind you, Adrian claims to be the head of Absolute security.
So was he lying to me, or just mistaken?
We have the hand-histories of player DOUBLEDRAG dumping to player ROMNALDO. DOUBLEDRAG is the account that has more or less been proven to have superuser capability. Are you telling us that it is just one giant coincidence that the player alleged to have stolen funds then went on a $250,000 chip-dumping spree? Why did Adrian claim that all accounts had been 100% cleared of wrong-doing if this was not true?
***Sorry for the purple font; I feel like my post is entitled to a little more significance, given that I was one of the ones to have had $6,000 stolen from him by DoubleDrag -- I then walked the head of Absolute security by the hand to the chip-dumping hand-histories to which he replied that they were NOT chip-dumping (only to have you now state the opposite, whoever you are). I have a recording of that phone conversation. If you return my $6,000 and the over $50,000 stolen from IkesToys, then I will consider playing at your site again. Alternatively, you can have an English-speaking member of upper management, if one exists, call me to explain the situation -- you know who I am***
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Rednax
enthusiast
Reged: 09/11/04
Posts: 282
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Quote:
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PaulieWlnuts
stranger
Reged: 10/13/07
Posts: 2
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Re(1): AP's Response to Superuser accounts
by CrazyMarco on 10/13/2007 15:51
"Absolute Poker never divulges personal information about our players nor do we make public any hand information that did not go to a showdown, ever."
LOOOOOOOOOL
This is such [censored], Absolute Poker sent me an email that showed everysingle persons holecards (even if they folded fre flop) from the 1k tourney i took 2nd in to potripper. I asked them for a hh from the ft and they instead sent me an email that showed how every person in that tourney played their hands on every street even when i wasnt even at the table. Thats right i wasnt even there at a certain table and AP sent me hh's showing everyones cards pre next to their stack sizes and then how they played them.
Such sick constant lies from AP!
And yes I still have the email.
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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^ Please post the email. Wow
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Edukashun
member
Reged: 07/26/07
Posts: 177
Loc: UK
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Quote:
^ Please post the email. Wow
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apefish
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 4673
Loc: To the pain
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Was it Absolute or UB (same ownership obv) that gave out Yellowsub's (I think) info to someone who complained about a delayed transfer?
Yes... you never give out personal info... except when you do.
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adanthar
Possibly Too Level Headed
Reged: 04/02/04
Posts: 14174
Loc: Intrepidly Reporting
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Hey, guess what? Absolute made a booboo and sent out a giant Excel file of *every hand ever played* for the Potripper tourney, including everyone's hole cards!
http://www.pocketfives.com/445F78F0-7D44-4F3B-AF24-0AFA96F28812.aspx
fun facts so far: after logging in, Potripper folds 4 hands PF from 5/10 to 100/200 *total*. anyone want to guess how many big pairs people had in those 4 hands? THAT'S RIGHT
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teddyFBI
Bot Sleuth
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 3592
Loc: Swapping only amounts > 1K
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^^^
I am literally falling over myself with excitement waiting for the above -- god I hope it turns out to be true -- if we actually have PotRipper's hole cards for the entire tournament we're going to bring Absolute to its MF'ing knees. The most beautiful irony of this whole situation is that it's mushrooming because of Absolute's own incompetence in absent-mindedly sending out (allegedly) the ENTIRE tournament's HH, replete with EVERYONE's hole cards.
***MAKE SURE THAT THE HHS ARE MADE AVAILABLE TO 2P2'ER JOSEM WHO ADMINISTERS THE WEBSITE www.ABSOLUTEPOKERCHEATS.COM -- HE'LL KEEP THEM FRONT AND CENTER ON HIS SITE***
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apefish
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 4673
Loc: To the pain
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This development has me giddy. Seriously.
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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...and the truth shall set you free.
This is big.
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momo_the_kid
member
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 110
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the stupidity of those AP management and support people blows my mind away. seems they do everything possible to get their own site out of the business.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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I have a feeling that it's not going to take long for Absolute Poker to become a ghost town.
They handled this situation probably just about as bad as they possibly could have.
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brendanb438
Mo Prop Free Monies
Reged: 01/06/06
Posts: 2636
Loc: Penalty Box at Covers
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Can't find a thread about this "superuser" situation. Can someone direct me in the right direction so I can get the background details.
-Brendan
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teddyFBI
Bot Sleuth
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 3592
Loc: Swapping only amounts > 1K
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Does anyone know whether there is a way to read the P5 forums that doesn't make one want to poker their eyes out with a spork?
e.g. do they have an equivalent to our "flat mode" that lets u view 100 posts on one page?
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Quote:
Can't find a thread about this "superuser" situation. Can someone direct me in the right direction so I can get the background details.
-Brendan
The beginning
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
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or can we just copy the relevant HH's and post them over here?
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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Quote:
Can't find a thread about this "superuser" situation. Can someone direct me in the right direction so I can get the background details.
-Brendan
www.absolutepokercheats.com
There is a current thread going on in BBV about the HH's..
Edited by KEW (10/13/07 10:02 PM)
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sethypooh21
idiotplayer
Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 5757
Loc: World Series GOGOGOGO
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And oh [censored] there seems to be lots of LOL stuff in there
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donk2glory
newbie
Reged: 02/01/06
Posts: 31
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wow 80- 100% vpip and infinate river agression and guy is like 500bb/100 ...and hes not a super-user........nice logic absolute poker...unless god himself started up poker as a hobby..then it makes sense
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ActionJeff
veteran
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 1467
Loc: though my mind could think I s...
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GUYS
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE:
http://www.pocketfives.com/445F78F0-7D44-4F3B-AF24-0AFA96F28812.aspx
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jafeather
veteran
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 1391
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<<---can't wait for a peek at this complete HH.
way to continue screwing up, absolute.
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
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I'm not going to 100% believe the complete HH's are out there until I actually see them or at least somebody I trust from here says they did. It almost feels too much like a, "hey, lets rile them up some more" type of troll-baiting to me.
I mean, they are talking about how crazy-obvious these clearly are and, to my knowledge, are not posting a single one of the HH's.
I might be wrong on that. Haven't exactly been going crazy trying to find where somebody may have actually shared them.
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rothko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/28/06
Posts: 5437
Loc: nowhere, really
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Quote:
I'm not going to 100% believe the complete HH's are out there until I actually see them or at least somebody I trust from here says they did. It almost feels too much like a, "hey, lets rile them up some more" type of troll-baiting to me.
I mean, they are talking about how crazy-obvious these clearly are and, to my knowledge, are not posting a single one of the HH's.
I might be wrong on that. Haven't exactly been going crazy trying to find where somebody may have actually shared them.
check the bbv thread. several reputable 2p2ers have the file.
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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Quote:
I'm not going to 100% believe the complete HH's are out there until I actually see them or at least somebody I trust from here says they did. It almost feels too much like a, "hey, lets rile them up some more" type of troll-baiting to me.
I mean, they are talking about how crazy-obvious these clearly are and, to my knowledge, are not posting a single one of the HH's.
I might be wrong on that. Haven't exactly been going crazy trying to find where somebody may have actually shared them.
Check out the thread in BBV..IKESTOYS talks about several and I believe there are some posted...It's insane...They even have e-mail and IP addresses...
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teddyFBI
Bot Sleuth
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 3592
Loc: Swapping only amounts > 1K
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Quote:
GUYS
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE:
http://www.pocketfives.com/445F78F0-7D44-4F3B-AF24-0AFA96F28812.aspx
What's the important update you're referring to Jeff? I combed thru that thread again and didn't see any significantly new bombshells in the last 3 hours or so -- and someone PLEASE tell me there's an easy way to read the P5 forums. The format makes me want to kill myself. None of the posts are arranged chronologically.
ALSO, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHAT POTRIPPER'S IP ADDRESS IS -- e.g. where in the world he played from. If the answer is Costa Rica, then we've got a whole new dramabomb.
(also those who have all of the IP addresses should see if mroe than 1 person in tourney was playing from potripper's address...would be an interesting tidbit.)
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threeven
stranger
Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 2
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Quote:
Quote:
GUYS
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE:
http://www.pocketfives.com/445F78F0-7D44-4F3B-AF24-0AFA96F28812.aspx
What's the important update you're referring to Jeff? I combed thru that thread again and didn't see any significantly new bombshells in the last 3 hours or so -- and someone PLEASE tell me there's an easy way to read the P5 forums. The format makes me want to kill myself. None of the posts are arranged chronologically.
ALSO, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHAT POTRIPPER'S IP ADDRESS IS -- e.g. where in the world he played from. If the answer is Costa Rica, then we've got a whole new dramabomb.
(also those who have all of the IP addresses should see if mroe than 1 person in tourney was playing from potripper's address...would be an interesting tidbit.)
Whats new is now we have all of potripper's hands
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rothko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/28/06
Posts: 5437
Loc: nowhere, really
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Quote:
Quote:
GUYS
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE:
http://www.pocketfives.com/445F78F0-7D44-4F3B-AF24-0AFA96F28812.aspx
What's the important update you're referring to Jeff? I combed thru that thread again and didn't see any significantly new bombshells in the last 3 hours or so -- and someone PLEASE tell me there's an easy way to read the P5 forums. The format makes me want to kill myself. None of the posts are arranged chronologically.
ALSO, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHAT POTRIPPER'S IP ADDRESS IS -- e.g. where in the world he played from. If the answer is Costa Rica, then we've got a whole new dramabomb.
(also those who have all of the IP addresses should see if mroe than 1 person in tourney was playing from potripper's address...would be an interesting tidbit.)
jeff didn't know that 2p2 had already been alerted.
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threeven
stranger
Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 2
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http://www.pocketfives.com/AB0A6FCE-734B-425B-AA64-036D3A99D2CC.aspx
link to potrippers whole HH
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Dan Druff
enthusiast
Reged: 05/06/03
Posts: 244
Loc: Las Vegas
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Quote:
http://www.pocketfives.com/AB0A6FCE-734B-425B-AA64-036D3A99D2CC.aspx
link to potrippers whole HH
The smoking gun!
I'm going to front-page this on Neverwinpoker.
I'm also back from my month-long vacation, so I'll be starting to apply my own pressure to AP.
I have not given up on this -- not by a long shot.
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kidpokeher
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/14/06
Posts: 2115
Loc: value shoving
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Wow, I'm about an hour and a half into these hand histories and my mind is blown. He's only folded five times preflop and the only time he's ever called when behind was a $150 turn bet with a weak flush draw (he had a $20K stack at this point.) The only "mistake" he made was trying to push someone off a second pair who wasn't going for it and three bet him. Every other time he *knew* the other players had weak holdings and shoved them off with nothing but garbage.
This thing reads like a Stephen King novel.
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GaryTheGoat
enthusiast
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 374
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Quote:
This thing reads like a Stephen King novel.
QFT...spooky stuff.
gg
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j4lvlie
banned
Reged: 09/30/07
Posts: 135
Loc: England pl20
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
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metsandfinsfan
likes faceshots
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 22346
Loc: Long Island
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i still doubt the op is legit
anyone check his ip?
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Lyrrad
member
Reged: 10/15/06
Posts: 129
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Quote:
i still doubt the op is legit
anyone check his ip?
Yes, they did. (E-mail from Absolute Poker domain, and IP from Costa Rica)
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metsandfinsfan
likes faceshots
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 22346
Loc: Long Island
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Quote:
Quote:
i still doubt the op is legit
anyone check his ip?
Yes, they did. (E-mail from Absolute Poker domain, and IP from Costa Rica)
who said that, i dont see it
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Lyrrad
member
Reged: 10/15/06
Posts: 129
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Quote:
who said that, i dont see it
Leader did in this thread. You should really look harder
Quote:
ip is Costa Rican. email is at from absolutepoker.com FWIW
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teddyFBI
Bot Sleuth
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 3592
Loc: Swapping only amounts > 1K
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Again, can someone with the Excel file please check on PotRipper's IP address? Where in the world is this guy located? Costa Rica???!
Also, check for matches with anyone else in the tourney from that same IP address...this might answer whether it's Potripper's account itself that's able to see hole cards, or whether he gets that info from an accomplice's account.
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uDevil
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/23/03
Posts: 2490
Loc: Cloudless climes and starry sk...
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Quote:
This thing reads like a Stephen King novel.
Disgruntled employee decides to screw AP. He fixes an update so his accounts can see hole cards. He cheats in such a way that it is inevitable it will be noticed. When the expected "investigation" is concluded and AP thinks it has swept the problem under the rug, he makes his HHs publicly available. AP [censored] with the wrong dude. They should have known better-- his name is Louis Cyphre.
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TimM
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 4564
Loc: The Gym
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Quote:
AP [censored] with the wrong dude. They should have known better-- his name is Louis Cyphre.
He was quoted as saying:
"I have old-fashioned ideas about honour. An eye for an eye... stuff like that."
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Deuce2High
veteran
Reged: 10/31/04
Posts: 1288
Loc: Pwnasaurus
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Absolute poker clears POTRIPPER of any wrongdoing in this situation. The investigation has beeen going on for almost a month now.
I have several close friends who have played this guy headsup on the account DOUBLDRAG as well who are in total down over $100k to the Absolute Poker hackers. These hackers are probably going to be clearing close to a MILLION DOLLARS on accounts GRAYCAT, PAYUP, STEAMROLLER, DOUBLEDRAG, POTRIPPER. It should also be mentioned that all of this money was CHIP DUMPED to other accounts to be cashed out and this chip dumping was basically ignored by Absolute Poker investigators.
I've written a letter to the Kahnawakee gaming comission as I suggest everyone else do the same.
If you are currently not playing on Absolute Poker because of this situation inform Absolute Poker as to why you are not playing on their site.
NOTHING WILL HAPPEN IF WE DO NOT MAKE IT HAPPEN. ABSOLUTE IS PUSHING THIS UNDER THE RUG. THIS IS HE MOST SERIOUSLY DEVASTATING SITUATION THAT ONLINE POKER HAS EVER SEEN. THIS SITUATION HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR ABOUT A MONTH NOW, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IT'S BECUASE WE ARE BEING STONEWALLED.
Sorry for the caps but I am finally sick and tired of this sitation not getting the attention it deserves. Also I am banned from posting on P5s so if someone wants to suggest writing to the Kahnawakee gaming comission and Absolute Poker to P5ers, PLEASE do.
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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KGC will do nothing, it is a waste of time.
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Dan Druff
enthusiast
Reged: 05/06/03
Posts: 244
Loc: Las Vegas
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Guys, this is hilarious.
Someone from NWP wrote a letter to AP complaining about the superuser stuff. Standard complaint letter, but the response is comedy gold:
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. XXXX ,
Thank you for contacting us.
AP officials have requested some threads be removed and have announced
an official statement. If you have any customers complaining or have
concerns, please use the following:
Thank you for your email regarding alleged fraudulent player activity.
We have been following the forums closely and are aware of your
concern.
First, we’d like to assure you that a ‘super-user’ account does
not exist. Absolute Poker was created by poker players who value
security and fair play. The backend of the Absolute Poker software makes it
impossible for such an account to function. Our game client only
receives data regarding an individuals hand and no other player hole cards are
ever visible – by anyone – except in the event of a showdown.
With that said, we take any allegation of wrongdoing extremely
seriously and we sincerely value your concern. We have temporarily frozen the
accounts of the players in question while we continue our extensive
investigation. At this point, we have found no evidence of wrongdoing.
However, given the seriousness of these allegations, our investigation will
go on.
Our fraud department has combed through all hands involving the
accounts that were mentioned in the online forum. Please note that the
examples mentioned in the forum present only a small snapshot of each
player’s activity. Our ongoing investigation continues to show that the
long-term success rates of these players aren’t in line with what the
forum suggests.
Fair play and security are as important to Absolute Poker management
and staff as they are to our players. Our fraud department is dedicated
to ensuring that everyone on the site has a fair opportunity to win. We
stand by the results of our random number generator and we take great
pride in our game client security.
Absolute Poker remains a 100% secure place to play. We value all of our
players and we will continue to provide our community with a safe,
secure and exciting online poker experience.
Thank you, once again, for your email. If we can be of any other
assistance, please don’t hesitate to contact us.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let us know.
Sincerely,
Nia
Team Absolute ~ Security & Control Department
Phone: 1.877.887.6537
"To Continue to be the best and most trusted"
Security@AbsolutePoker.Com
We’re Here To Stay! All Players Welcome!
------------------------------------------------------------
OOOOOOOOOOOOPS!
Nia at support copied and pasted a bit too much there from her inbox, huh?
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metsandfinsfan
likes faceshots
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 22346
Loc: Long Island
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holy crapola that is gold
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
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Dan - that's beyond hilarious.
Wow.
Are these just the crazy capers of incompetent C/S people or what?
Almost makes some of Party's C/S look like freaking geniuses.
What I would like to see is more sites like 2+2 and P5's not accept AP advertising. Not sure if this is already happening or not but I thought I had seen AP banners on here before.
Would be even better if AP ads on WPT or elsewhere also turned away but I really doubt that will happen.
But places like 2+2 have every ability to turn-away advertising from AP and essentially black-ball them. And can also encourage rakeback sites to do the same.
If the affiliates like TITN and RTR and places like that decided it was in their best interest to alert their customers of shady goings-on over there then that could end up hurting them more than the negative publicity of the threads on 2+2 and P5's.
I think somebody mentioned that the traffic at AP has not noticeably changed since the whole blow-up.
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metsandfinsfan
likes faceshots
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 22346
Loc: Long Island
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did ap ask 2+2 to remove any threads? just curious
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TimM
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 4564
Loc: The Gym
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Quote:
But places like 2+2 have every ability to turn-away advertising from AP and essentially black-ball them. And can also encourage rakeback sites to do the same.
If the affiliates like TITN and RTR and places like that decided it was in their best interest to alert their customers of shady goings-on over there then that could end up hurting them more than the negative publicity of the threads on 2+2 and P5's.
P5s still has AP banners as of this morning. I didn't see any here yet. Bonus Whores still has a favorable write-up.
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Annorax
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 1973
Loc: [censored]
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Scripted [censored] isn't anything new, especially from shady CS like Absolute's. I'm falling off my chair laughing at them trying to get NWP to push their scripted lies on their forum posters... :P
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
If the affiliates like TITN and RTR and places like that decided it was in their best interest to alert their customers of shady goings-on over there then that could end up hurting them more than the negative publicity of the threads on 2+2 and P5's.
I agree it is time for big affiliates to step up and blacklist them. To this point only Pokerlistings and a few smaller affiliates have blacklisted them. Not all of it is related to this issue. I would like to hear from big affiliates as to what they plan on doing about AP.
Quote:
did ap ask 2+2 to remove any threads? just curious
I don't think so but if they did the threads would not have been removed. AP did ask other forums to remove threads about this.
It's time to start pressuring big affiliates to drop AP. I've emailed Gambling911 and Pokerroomreview (who still gives them an A????) about this as well as posting this at CAP. I suggest all interested party start emailing affiliates.
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
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"AP did ask other forums to remove threads about this."
How do you know this?
Did the operators of some of the other forums mention this in their threads?
Sorry I'm not going to do the research myself as searching around on some of those other places can be a pain. Was just curious.
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
How do you know this?
http://www.pokeraffiliateworld.com/forum...ute-thread.html
Jeremy posts:
Quote:
I removed the thread on request of AP upper management.
The next post is from AP. Jeremy, the head of PAW went on to make a repulsive post in his blog putting AP on a pedestal and calling out people here as overreacting.
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fluorescenthippo
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 04/17/05
Posts: 4498
Loc: on the bubble of life
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do they ever address why it took like 2 weeks to make this response? a credible site would have response within like 3 days.
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Dan Druff
enthusiast
Reged: 05/06/03
Posts: 244
Loc: Las Vegas
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They can request all they want at Neverwinpoker.
No threads or front page stories will be coming down until I get some credible and honest answers.
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benza13
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/31/05
Posts: 5932
Loc: Building stacks, then blowing ...
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Quote:
Quote:
They really need to go down for the good of online poker. I haven't ever played there, and now I can say I never will.
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kevbo
member
Reged: 09/29/04
Posts: 101
Loc: VA
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ICfishies once postedd this about Mark Seif:
Quote:
I am still amazed and beyond disgusted at what I saw and heard very late last night/early in the morning at Absolute Poker...and I don't even know what to do about it. The irony of this happening the night after my "poker ethics" post is too much, also:
Anyone who has watched the 75/150 game there knows that Mark Seif (who is the site's signature pro and part-owner) has been extremely abusive lately of the other players when he's at the table.......always banning other players' chat in an instant and threatening account closure, etc. He has lost a lot a money at that 75 game (the resident pros consider him the big fish there) and it's been pretty obvious lately that it was starting to get to him more and more.
Anyway......stuckinpgh (my good friend Mike) is one of a handful of high-limit players who have managed to get under Mark's skin in recent weeks. It was evident that Seif was not fond of Mike and would tilt sometimes. Only this time, it turned out to be a lot worse than harmless trash talk.
Last night, Seif was actually having a good session for a few hours at the 75 table. Eventually the game mostly broke up, and it was just Seif and Mike heads up. After some see-saw action, Mike started to get the best of him again and was ahead maybe 4 or 5 k for the HU time, I'd say. At that point, Seif says something like "one second punk"....leaves the table.....then comes back about a minute later and announces "I'm ready to take you down."
Play then started again......and I saw something that I never have before in all my on-line poker play: obvious manipulation. Every hand was a complete dissection based on whatever Mike was holding (third pair was capped by Seif if Mike was behind or bluffing, for example.) About 10 or 12 k was basically stolen in 15 minutes (over maybe 100 hands), and here's the kicker: he was so pissed and beyond rational thinking that he actually wanted Mike to know what was going on! For example, Mike had K9 on one hand and flopped a boat. Seif was first to act after the flop, and FOLDED OUT OF TURN just that time. I had heard that Seif was having some personal problems, but who would've ever guessed that he could be capable of this. Between that possibility and the abuse that he's taken from the pros (in chat, $ lost, and pride lost at the tables), he must've finally snapped and lowered himself THAT much to get some revenge. We were simply stunned, and all Mike could do at the time was leave the game and withdraw the rest of his money (which he did get already.)
I have never played in a game with Mark Seif myself (or ever said a word to him), so none of this information is based on anything personal between him and me. I'm only trying to help out a good friend here and to call some needed attention to what happened. If Seif is capable of this, then it's a scary thought to trust your money to that site. And to think I was just about to deposit to play the 75 game myself.
What are the odds that Mark Seif is one or more of these accounts?
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2/325Falcon
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/14/05
Posts: 1952
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Absolute Support,
Just wanted to let you know I deposited on PokerStars today. Enjoy!
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rothko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/28/06
Posts: 5437
Loc: nowhere, really
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Quote:
Absolute Support,
Just wanted to let you know I deposited on PokerStars today. Enjoy!
big mistake . . . stars is rigged.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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Pretty damning evidence.
If Absolute gets blacklisted, shoud UB as well? Aren't they kind of one and the same these days?
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
Pretty damning evidence.
If Absolute gets blacklisted, shoud UB as well? Aren't they kind of one and the same these days?
Casinomeister already rogued AP but not UB. I made the suggestion both should be rogued since they are essentially the same.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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I see that Cardplayer has AP banner ads.
Maybe we should email some of these media sites (Cardplayer,Bluff,G911) and get the story out?
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momo_the_kid
member
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 110
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right now I just hope stars can do the right thing on their WCOOP investigation. Online poker is already at its lowest point. The integrity of the whole industry is at stake.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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Quote:
Online poker is already at its lowest point. The integrity of the whole industry is at stake.
Suddenly U.S. regulation is sounding like not such a bad thing.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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Quote:
Casinomeister already rogued AP
I looked on their site and AP is listed under the "not recommended" category and not the "rogue" category.
Have they just not made the change yet?
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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Absolute Poker
Rank 9th
7 day average: 1421 players
Gonna be fun watching this go down.
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
Quote:
Casinomeister already rogued AP
I looked on their site and AP is listed under the "not recommended" category and not the "rogue" category.
Have they just not made the change yet?
It's all the same, it's a degree of Rogueville shared with the likes of Futurebet. Notice the header of the page is "CASINOMEISTER'S ROGUE PIT" and the title is "Rogue and Blacklisted Casinos". Also the url is rogue/index.php.
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HavanaBanana
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/05/03
Posts: 2449
Loc: Boycott ABSOLUTE POKER
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Quote:
I see that Cardplayer has AP banner ads.
Maybe we should email some of these media sites (Cardplayer,Bluff,G911) and get the story out?
I did that when Party stole $5 Million from their players in the 'Monster' scandal.
Those mags are not about to shoot themselves in the foot unless they are forced to.
ToT
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ktulu22
member
Reged: 01/27/07
Posts: 168
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IMO AP management being in on this is MUCH more likely than somebody hacking into their system.
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
|
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Quote:
Quote:
I see that Cardplayer has AP banner ads.
Maybe we should email some of these media sites (Cardplayer,Bluff,G911) and get the story out?
I did that when Party stole $5 Million from their players in the 'Monster' scandal.
Those mags are not about to shoot themselves in the foot unless they are forced to.
ToT
on top of that...CardPlayer isn't exactly in love with 2+2 and vice-versa.
If 2+2 is against something it wouldn't surprise me if that made CP more in favor of it.
Maybe they'll do something about one of their major advertisers anyway...but I'm not holding my breath.
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dergitarrist
journeyman
Reged: 06/03/07
Posts: 59
Loc: o.
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Quote:
Suddenly U.S. regulation is sounding like not such a bad thing.
As a European, It never ceases to amaze me how some Americans tend to think everything on the whole world is subject to their regulation..
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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Quote:
Quote:
Suddenly U.S. regulation is sounding like not such a bad thing.
As a European, It never ceases to amaze me how some Americans tend to think everything on the whole world is subject to their regulation..
Obviously the regulations from Europe aren't getting the job done if this is happening.
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Josem
Ninja Tar
Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 4780
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Someone who is advocating "US regulation" is presumably meaning an online poker world where sites would be regulated in the US, rather than banned.
Obviously, operations that operate outside the US would still me subject to regulation in their home country.
I don't understand what European regulations would ever have to do with a Costa Rica-based operation. It's worth noting that European-based services, operating in European regulations, are not subject to these same accusations as Absolute Poker.
Sites such as Party, Stars, and the Swedish one are far more reputable than Abssolute or FTP.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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Quote:
It's worth noting that European-based services, operating in European regulations, are not subject to these same accusations as Absolute Poker.
Oops.
For moment I forgot AP was in Costa Rica and not on the other side of the pond.
Carry on, carry on.
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Red_Diamond
addict
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 567
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It is possible this is all explainable for innocent reasons.
There are hundreds of tournaments in play every second in the world. Thus, it is not out of the realm that a few players will eventually hit some very high outlier statistic during the play of one. We've all had donkeys who just (can't stop sucking out all night). Even if this was a million to one shot, there are people winning the lottery all the time at even worse odds.
Another explanation is, maybe he is just psychic. After all, Brunson mentions all good poker players have some form of ESP. Maybe we finally found the proof about ESP to remove doubts from all world skeptics.
My 2 cents, I just thought the villain needed SOMEONE to defend him here.
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Josem
Ninja Tar
Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 4780
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Quote:
My 2 cents, I just thought the villain needed SOMEONE to defend him here.
Defending the cheater here is a little bit like claiming that 2 + 2 = 5 because everyone else correctly realises that 2 + 2 = 4.
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apefish
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 4673
Loc: To the pain
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Quote:
My 2 cents, I just thought the villain needed SOMEONE to defend him here.
Why does he need someone to defend him? He can see our hole cards. He can defend himself perfectly.
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jgunnip
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/06/04
Posts: 5321
Loc: shipping ironman bonus medals
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Quote:
It is possible this is all explainable for innocent reasons.
There are hundreds of tournaments in play every second in the world. Thus, it is not out of the realm that a few players will eventually hit some very high outlier statistic during the play of one. We've all had donkeys who just (can't stop sucking out all night). Even if this was a million to one shot, there are people winning the lottery all the time at even worse odds.
Another explanation is, maybe he is just psychic. After all, Brunson mentions all good poker players have some form of ESP. Maybe we finally found the proof about ESP to remove doubts from all world skeptics.
My 2 cents, I just thought the villain needed SOMEONE to defend him here.
WHAT??? Um, NO.
Please catch up on recent developments that have taken place since two months ago.
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jgunnip
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/06/04
Posts: 5321
Loc: shipping ironman bonus medals
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Also along with getting sites to blacklist AP and have media related sites suspend AP advertising, perhaps major software like PT and PAHUD would stop supporting the AP Client?
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Coy_Roy
old hand
Reged: 10/01/06
Posts: 727
Loc: DC/AC
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Quote:
perhaps major software like PT and PAHUD would stop supporting the AP Client?
Huh?
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Todpullen
member
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 126
Loc: England
|
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Quote:
software like PT and PAHUD would stop supporting the AP Client?
That would just mean cheaters would be more difficult for other players to catch out.
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scampini
stranger
Reged: 08/19/06
Posts: 8
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Suddenly U.S. regulation is sounding like not such a bad thing.
Then we take a look at American public schools. Suddenly US regulation sounds like a bad thing again.
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Ganjasaurus Rex
enthusiast
Reged: 09/14/07
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Quote:
Suddenly U.S. regulation is sounding like not such a bad thing.
Then we take a look at American public schools. Suddenly US regulation sounds like a bad thing again.
Public schools are more than regulated by the govt. They are operated by the govt. Regulating a private industry is a different matter. A better analogy would be casinos, which are regulated by the govt but still run by private enterprise.
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Piemaster
enthusiast
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 269
Loc: London, UK
|
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Quote:
Guys, this is hilarious.
Someone from NWP wrote a letter to AP complaining about the superuser stuff. Standard complaint letter, but the response is comedy gold:
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. XXXX ,
Thank you for contacting us.
AP officials have requested some threads be removed and have announced
an official statement. If you have any customers complaining or have
concerns, please use the following:
Thank you for your email regarding alleged fraudulent player activity.
We have been following the forums closely and are aware of your
concern.
First, we’d like to assure you that a ‘super-user’ account does
not exist. Absolute Poker was created by poker players who value
security and fair play. The backend of the Absolute Poker software makes it
impossible for such an account to function. Our game client only
receives data regarding an individuals hand and no other player hole cards are
ever visible – by anyone – except in the event of a showdown.
With that said, we take any allegation of wrongdoing extremely
seriously and we sincerely value your concern. We have temporarily frozen the
accounts of the players in question while we continue our extensive
investigation. At this point, we have found no evidence of wrongdoing.
However, given the seriousness of these allegations, our investigation will
go on.
Our fraud department has combed through all hands involving the
accounts that were mentioned in the online forum. Please note that the
examples mentioned in the forum present only a small snapshot of each
player’s activity. Our ongoing investigation continues to show that the
long-term success rates of these players aren’t in line with what the
forum suggests.
Fair play and security are as important to Absolute Poker management
and staff as they are to our players. Our fraud department is dedicated
to ensuring that everyone on the site has a fair opportunity to win. We
stand by the results of our random number generator and we take great
pride in our game client security.
Absolute Poker remains a 100% secure place to play. We value all of our
players and we will continue to provide our community with a safe,
secure and exciting online poker experience.
Thank you, once again, for your email. If we can be of any other
assistance, please don’t hesitate to contact us.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let us know.
Sincerely,
Nia
Team Absolute ~ Security & Control Department
Phone: 1.877.887.6537
"To Continue to be the best and most trusted"
Security@AbsolutePoker.Com
We’re Here To Stay! All Players Welcome!
------------------------------------------------------------
OOOOOOOOOOOOPS!
Nia at support copied and pasted a bit too much there from her inbox, huh?
Unfortunately I think you might have just got poor Nia fired.
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twoblacknines
old hand
Reged: 10/16/05
Posts: 919
Loc: Lonesome Crowded West
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This has been asked before but not really responded too:
If this guy was able to get a "superuser" account, he was only busted due to playing it like an idiot. So it is perfectly reasonable to assume that other other major sites have been hacked as well, and the super user accounts are just not caught because they play more reasonable, and quietly make $1,000's. Do we just accept that this is the reality of playing online poker?
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Coy_Roy
old hand
Reged: 10/01/06
Posts: 727
Loc: DC/AC
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Quote:
Do we just accept that this is the reality of playing online poker?
I think, unfortunately, yes.
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WordWhiz
veteran
Reged: 06/14/05
Posts: 1272
Loc: F.U. Jobu, I do it myself!
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Quote:
This has been asked before but not really responded too:
If this guy was able to get a "superuser" account, he was only busted due to playing it like an idiot. So it is perfectly reasonable to assume that other other major sites have been hacked as well, and the super user accounts are just not caught because they play more reasonable, and quietly make $1,000's. Do we just accept that this is the reality of playing online poker?
Well, sites should not have "superuser" accounts at all. But is is possible that some people are quietly making millions on all sites with inside knowledge? Anything's possible. I tend to think not, however. People have a natural tendency to brag about their exploits, and secrets can rarely be kept among more than 2-3 people. I'm highly skeptical that something like this has happened elsewhere. There'd be at least some evidence, and right now there's none.
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InTheDark
enthusiast
Reged: 07/16/07
Posts: 207
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Quote:
If you return my $6,000 and the over $50,000 stolen from IkesToys, then I will consider playing at your site again.
Perhaps you'll consider it....for maybe a nanosecond but I call BS on you ever playing there again.
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Vega33
member
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 129
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For anyone (like the guy on pocketfives) who is still trying to poke holes into individual hands in the tourney HHs, you have got to realize that this is *cumulative* evidence.
Even before the HHs on this particular tourney were leaked, potripper was already under enormous suspicion based on his overall stats. To add these tourney HHs to the mix makes it something like 1 chance in a billion that there is no fraud going on.
Potripper is like a guy who has previously been spotted in the vacinity of 15 separate serial killer murders. And then there's a 16th murder and, lo and behold, the police find actual video evidence showing that same guy walking directly behind the victim a few minutes before he's killed.
Yes, if the video were all the evidence that existed, you might give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he's not the serial killer and just happened to be walking behind the victim that night. But it would be ludicrous to do so in light of the evidence already on file.
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e_phemeral
enthusiast
Reged: 02/22/06
Posts: 306
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Quote:
This has been asked before but not really responded too:
If this guy was able to get a "superuser" account, he was only busted due to playing it like an idiot. So it is perfectly reasonable to assume that other other major sites have been hacked as well, and the super user accounts are just not caught because they play more reasonable, and quietly make $1,000's. Do we just accept that this is the reality of playing online poker?
Of course it is possible that this is happening every day on every poker website. Anyone who claims this is an isolated incident is full of sh*t. This is just the only time that someone has used their edge in such a retarded and blatant manner, and in big money cash games and tournies, as to alert smart intelligent players in the online poker community to the fact that something fishy was going on. Smart players with this ability would just lie low under the radar quietly raking in tons of money but never being so blatant about it as to raise suscpicion.
I for one am done playing online poker. Bring on the B&M.
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Vega33
member
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 129
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Quote:
I for one am done playing online poker. Bring on the B&M.
I won't go that far, especially since I've won a good bit of money playing online poker during times when B&M poker wasn't available to me (basically all the time except weekends). Even assuming I would have won more if not for fraud, the fact remains that the profit is still gravy- there's nowhere else I can play in my town on a weekday night. The calculation might be different for someone who lives in a city with B&M poker, though.
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ALLEN BOND
addict
Reged: 08/17/06
Posts: 626
Loc: Windy City
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What was the IP for POTRIPPER? Where is this guy from?
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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Quote:
This has been asked before but not really responded too:
If this guy was able to get a "superuser" account, he was only busted due to playing it like an idiot. So it is perfectly reasonable to assume that other other major sites have been hacked as well, and the super user accounts are just not caught because they play more reasonable, and quietly make $1,000's. Do we just accept that this is the reality of playing online poker?
This is,was and always will be a concern...I trust the "major" sites to take proper "security" measures to "limit" the possibility...IMO it's impossible to 100% eliminate this risk..
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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"I for one am done playing online poker. Bring on the B&M."
I view this risk as the same thing as running into a "card mechanic" dealer in a B&M...In fact I would worry more about a "live" dealer "stacking the deck" then I would an Internet site security...
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e_phemeral
enthusiast
Reged: 02/22/06
Posts: 306
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Quote:
"I for one am done playing online poker. Bring on the B&M."
I view this risk as the same thing as running into a "card mechanic" dealer in a B&M...In fact I would worry more about a "live" dealer "stacking the deck" then I would an Internet site security...
IMO that's a crazy comparison. Maybe I don't know enough about "mechanics" and their "art", but I think the risk of running into collusion, hacking or any other form of cheating at on online poker site is much higher than the risk of running into a crooked dealer at a reputable B&M casino. Moreover, having the ability to see other people's hole cards is a much more devastating advantage to have over your opponents than to be working with a crooked dealer who can deal you the nuts every now and then.
Anyone who tries to minimize this hole card scandal is either (a) foolish, (b) a winning player worried that the "online is rigged" cry will dry up their action or (c) a freaking cheater.
The bottom line is that IMO it has been proven without a doubt that certain players on Absolute could see other player's hole cards. That is astounding, isn't it?!?!? That is f*cked up, isn't it?!?!? I can understand how a winning player might react to this information with a bit of skepticism and a kind of "ok, that's great, let's just fix the problem quietly" kind of attitude, but come on. This is bad bad bad for online poker.
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Palomino
addict
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 449
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Quote:
Quote:
"I for one am done playing online poker. Bring on the B&M."
I view this risk as the same thing as running into a "card mechanic" dealer in a B&M...In fact I would worry more about a "live" dealer "stacking the deck" then I would an Internet site security...
IMO that's a crazy comparison. Maybe I don't know enough about "mechanics" and their "art", but I think the risk of running into collusion, hacking or any other form of cheating at on online poker site is much higher than the risk of running into a crooked dealer at a reputable B&M casino. Moreover, having the ability to see other people's hole cards is a much more devastating advantage to have over your opponents than to be working with a crooked dealer who can deal you the nuts every now and then.
Anyone who tries to minimize this hole card scandal is either (a) foolish, (b) a winning player worried that the "online is rigged" cry will dry up their action or (c) a freaking cheater.
The bottom line is that IMO it has been proven without a doubt that certain players on Absolute could see other player's hole cards. That is astounding, isn't it?!?!? That is f*cked up, isn't it?!?!? I can understand how a winning player might react to this information with a bit of skepticism and a kind of "ok, that's great, let's just fix the problem quietly" kind of attitude, but come on. This is bad bad bad for online poker.
I agree, this is "bad bad" for online poker. So, please, everyone stop ***** talking about it! It happened, and I'm sure it happens elsewhere, AP is just the only place where someone has been stupid enough to get caught. We all know the risks of playing online, but we accept those risks as soon as we deposit money on to the account. I am trying to minimize this whole thing because yes, I am a winning player and I DON'T want online poker to go away. The more people bitch about this whole thing the more likely it is that all of online poker will go down for it. So please, if you are unhappy with AP, don't F****ING play there. But I am very happy playing there, so please don't ruin it for me and others like me.
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adanthar
Possibly Too Level Headed
Reged: 04/02/04
Posts: 14174
Loc: Intrepidly Reporting
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Quote:
Of course it is possible that this is happening every day on every poker website. Anyone who claims this is an isolated incident is full of sh*t. This is just the only time that someone has used their edge in such a retarded and blatant manner, and in big money cash games and tournies, as to alert smart intelligent players in the online poker community to the fact that something fishy was going on. Smart players with this ability would just lie low under the radar quietly raking in tons of money but never being so blatant about it as to raise suscpicion.
People keep saying that, but the high stakes games on every single site have been datamined for just about forever and no single player has ever jumped out 1/100 as much as this.
Basically, if someone else is doing the same thing on Stars/FTP/Prima/UB/etc., they're making the same 3-5 BB/100 as every other winning regular at 25/50. This makes them the greatest poker player alive sans hole card cam, because they're successfully losing exactly the right amount of pots to compensate for the 2-3 big pots a session they're supposed to cheat themselves into.
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Red_Diamond
addict
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 567
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Well, for my four cents...
If what AP says is true, that there was no cheating going on. Then 2+2 really needs to hire this player to write a whole volume of the next 2+2 books. Obviously, he must have a wealth of poker information that is not available in any of the books, nor do I expect they could fill even 100 of them.
But then again, if you're THAT good, why would you give away your secrets?
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Quote:
Quote:
Of course it is possible that this is happening every day on every poker website. Anyone who claims this is an isolated incident is full of sh*t. This is just the only time that someone has used their edge in such a retarded and blatant manner, and in big money cash games and tournies, as to alert smart intelligent players in the online poker community to the fact that something fishy was going on. Smart players with this ability would just lie low under the radar quietly raking in tons of money but never being so blatant about it as to raise suscpicion.
People keep saying that, but the high stakes games on every single site have been datamined for just about forever and no single player has ever jumped out 1/100 as much as this.
Basically, if someone else is doing the same thing on Stars/FTP/Prima/UB/etc., they're making the same 3-5 BB/100 as every other winning regular at 25/50. This makes them the greatest poker player alive sans hole card cam, because they're successfully losing exactly the right amount of pots to compensate for the 2-3 big pots a session they're supposed to cheat themselves into.
I'll propose a theory that sites could just rotate accounts and pull off the same thing (albeit not as moronic as potripper) and still fly under the radar while making 5-10k a week or whatever.
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dergitarrist
journeyman
Reged: 06/03/07
Posts: 59
Loc: o.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Suddenly U.S. regulation is sounding like not such a bad thing.
As a European, It never ceases to amaze me how some Americans tend to think everything on the whole world is subject to their regulation..
Obviously the regulations from Europe aren't getting the job done if this is happening.
You do realize that you're missing my point, right? The U.S. are a super-power but they're not all the world depends on. You CANNOT regulate something that is spread all over the globe and operates from locations such as Costa Rica.. some day Americans will have to realize this. 
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"I for one am done playing online poker. Bring on the B&M."
I view this risk as the same thing as running into a "card mechanic" dealer in a B&M...In fact I would worry more about a "live" dealer "stacking the deck" then I would an Internet site security...
IMO that's a crazy comparison. Maybe I don't know enough about "mechanics" and their "art", but I think the risk of running into collusion, hacking or any other form of cheating at on online poker site is much higher than the risk of running into a crooked dealer at a reputable B&M casino. Moreover, having the ability to see other people's hole cards is a much more devastating advantage to have over your opponents than to be working with a crooked dealer who can deal you the nuts every now and then.
Anyone who tries to minimize this hole card scandal is either (a) foolish, (b) a winning player worried that the "online is rigged" cry will dry up their action or (c) a freaking cheater.
The bottom line is that IMO it has been proven without a doubt that certain players on Absolute could see other player's hole cards. That is astounding, isn't it?!?!? That is f*cked up, isn't it?!?!? I can understand how a winning player might react to this information with a bit of skepticism and a kind of "ok, that's great, let's just fix the problem quietly" kind of attitude, but come on. This is bad bad bad for online poker.
I agree, this is "bad bad" for online poker. So, please, everyone stop ***** talking about it! It happened, and I'm sure it happens elsewhere, AP is just the only place where someone has been stupid enough to get caught. We all know the risks of playing online, but we accept those risks as soon as we deposit money on to the account. I am trying to minimize this whole thing because yes, I am a winning player and I DON'T want online poker to go away. The more people bitch about this whole thing the more likely it is that all of online poker will go down for it. So please, if you are unhappy with AP, don't F****ING play there. But I am very happy playing there, so please don't ruin it for me and others like me.
While I agree it's a bad bad thing I do not think it will kill or has to kill online poker..What I feel is important is how Absolute handles the situation...IMO this situation needed somebody on the "inside"...I would like to Absolute step up to plate and explain what and how it happen..Honesty and forthcoming would go along way...Lies, deceit and covering up will have a worse impact then a 100% honest admission of what went wrong..Security breaches and computer "hack" attacks happen in all industries...
I certainly do not think this issue should be shoved under the rug..Absolute needs to be held accountable..
Online poker survived when the RNG was cracked on a site it will easily survive this...IMO this will and should not hit mainstream media and the very few "fish" will ever know about it...
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Josem
Ninja Tar
Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 4780
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Quote:
This has been asked before but not really responded too:
Yes, it has actually.
Quote:
So it is perfectly reasonable to assume that other other major sites have been hacked as well, and the super user accounts are just not caught because they play more reasonable, and quietly make $1,000's.
No - as a general rule in life, it is a bad idea to believe things are happening if you have no evidence to make you think they are happening.
To make an analogy - this is disagreeing with a George Bush policy, and thinking less of Hillary Clinton as a result. Whether or not you're a fan on George Bush, it is obviously silly to blame Hillary for his actions.
The same thing is happening here - Absolute is crap, so you're being critical of PokerStars (or Party or FTP or whatever)
Quote:
Do we just accept that this is the reality of playing online poker?
No - because it is not the reality of playing online poker.
Quote:
Of course it is possible that this is happening every day on every poker website.
Please provide the evidence of this.
Quote:
Anyone who claims this is an isolated incident is full of sh*t.
No - anyone claims this is an isolated incident is a rational person who only believes stuff when there is a reason to believe stuff.
Quote:
Maybe I don't know enough about "mechanics" and their "art", but I think the risk of running into collusion, hacking or any other form of cheating at on online poker site is much higher than the risk of running into a crooked dealer at a reputable B&M casino.
I assume you're kidding here.
Total number of dodgy operators in the history of online poker: Two - Planet Poker & Absolute Poker.
Total number of dodgy operators in the history of live poker: Countless
Quote:
Anyone who tries to minimize this hole card scandal is either (a) foolish, (b) a winning player worried that the "online is rigged" cry will dry up their action or (c) a freaking cheater.
I am not trying to "minimise" the scandal (I created a website to expose this, for goodness sake!) but rather, acting & thinking rationally.
Quote:
The bottom line is that IMO it has been proven without a doubt that certain players on Absolute could see other player's hole cards. That is astounding, isn't it?!?!? That is [censored] up, isn't it?!?!?
Yes, it is. Don't play on Absolute.
Quote:
I can understand how a winning player might react to this information with a bit of skepticism and a kind of "ok, that's great, let's just fix the problem quietly" kind of attitude, but come on.
I don't think anyone is advocating that.
Quote:
This is bad bad bad for online poker.
It is bad for online poker because of the hyperbole of ignorant and poor thinking people like in this thread.
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twoblacknines
old hand
Reged: 10/16/05
Posts: 919
Loc: Lonesome Crowded West
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Josem, you say it's not reasonable to assume this has happened on other sites:
"as a general rule in life, it is a bad idea to believe things are happening if you have no evidence to make you think they are happening."
The problem is we don't know how this happened. There are theories that it involved someone on the "inside", or AP being hacked. The point is, since we have no idea HOW this happened, we can't say well stars is more secure.
A year ago I would not of believed it was possible to see other people's hole cards unless you had some kind of trojan on their computers or something. Now it seems that a way has been found and I think the most important thing is to find out exactly how this happened and eliminate the possibility of it ever happening again.
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Quote:
So it is perfectly reasonable to assume that other other major sites have been hacked as well, and the super user accounts are just not caught because they play more reasonable, and quietly make $1,000's.
Quote:
No - as a general rule in life, it is a bad idea to believe things are happening if you have no evidence to make you think they are happening.
Wait, what? Now we have the evidence that proves cheating happened, yet we're ignorant to suspect other sites also? You're comming down on AP hard, yet you're quick to tell people they would be foolish to believe this might be happening elsewhere? 
Edited by ibluffoldladies (10/15/07 07:22 PM)
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waq
journeyman
Reged: 03/05/07
Posts: 58
Loc: taking care of old people
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Please read Adanthar's post above.
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Quote:
Please read Adanthar's post above.
I did, and I made a response to it. The smart cheaters would actually look just like every other winning player, so that doesn't convince me it isn't happening.
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El_Hombre_Grande
old hand
Reged: 10/04/05
Posts: 1091
Loc: On another hopeless bluff.
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I believe it has changed the equation. There is obviously the possibility that these sites are "hackable"-- its looks like we hasve proof of that. So to say that my opinion of the industry security as a whole shouldn't go down is simply incorrect. Before this, I didn't believe it was possible. Now I'm sure that it is. Of course that affects my view of the security risks of all online poker.
But that's not what bothers me the most. At sites that allow PT and PAHUD, this type of idiot will get caught. But i'm more concerned about someone (or several dozen or 500 or whatever) who isn't so blatantly stupid. To be able to just slightly tip the odds -- to know when that all in is AA instead of QQ when you have KK, to know when that big river bet is a bluff when its close --- a superaccount could quietly take hundreds of thousands of dollars without raising eyebrows if it was operated by any number of intelligent persons. No one says you have to play 90/70 with infinity river aggression. You could play 23/17/5 with a hell of a sixth sense.
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Josem
Ninja Tar
Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 4780
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Quote:
Wait, what? Now we have the evidence that proves cheating happened, yet we're ignorant to suspect other sites also? You're comming down on AP hard, yet you're quick to tell people they would be foolish to believe this might be happening elsewhere?
No, you're not ignorant to be wary other sites. Any dilligent, reasonable, person, should be constantly considering the security of his/her money. That's fair, and it is actually an important process for anyone to protect their assets.
However, there is a leap between being careful, and believing that other sites are similarly rigged.
There is no evidence that other sites are rigged - so it is not reasonable to believe other sites are rigged.
Of course, if evidence of rigging arose, then you should believe other sites are rigged.
*throughout all my posts, when I refer to "other sites," I mean leading sites such as Stars, Party, and even FTP
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Josem
Ninja Tar
Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 4780
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Quote:
The problem is we don't know how this happened. There are theories that it involved someone on the "inside", or AP being hacked. The point is, since we have no idea HOW this happened, we can't say well stars is more secure.
It is becoming highly likely that it was an inside job, if that accounts for anything.
However, the point remains that Stars has different software and different systems*. If Absolute had a software hole, then it is irrelevant to Stars (or Party, or whatever) because they use different software. If Absolute had a system hole, it is irrelevant to other sites because they use different systems.
However, because Absolute and Ultimate Bet are owned by the same mob, it would be reasonable to assume that there is some activities/software/processes/systems that are jointly used by both brands. Thus, I would be very wary of UB's activities.
Quote:
A year ago I would not of believed it was possible to see other people's hole cards unless you had some kind of trojan on their computers or something. Now it seems that a way has been found and I think the most important thing is to find out exactly how this happened and eliminate the possibility of it ever happening again.
This is fair, and I agree with this.
*in this context, I'm using the word 'systems' to refer to the non-software processes of the company - things like auditing, oversight, management, etc.
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GaryTheGoat
enthusiast
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 374
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adanthar:
Quote:
People keep saying that, but the high stakes games on every single site have been datamined for just about forever and no single player has ever jumped out 1/100 as much as this.
Basically, if someone else is doing the same thing on Stars ...
I'm concerned that Stars seems to be becoming less transparent by:
- prohibiting datamining of observed tables
- Lee Jones advocating use of "revolving" screen names
- prohibiting use of pe, etc.
- opting out for information going to other commercial databases
Don't these moves inhibit our ability to protect ourselves from smart superusers? Some of the listed items were used in breaking this Absolute scandal. I think that the current trend should be towards more transparency not less.
Can we rely on ANY poker site to provide the protection that we're paying for with rake?
gg
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Quote:
There is no evidence that other sites are rigged - so it is not reasonable to believe other sites are rigged.
Of course, if evidence of rigging arose, then you should believe other sites are rigged.
I agree, but the problem is that it's possible to cheat without there ever being any evidence. If I were a superuser account, I would play losing sessions to cover my tracks, and just take profits that seem normal.
This is the reality that all online players have to face now, and it's pretty damn scary. Now, if these sites started to use a credible third party for audit's, security, etc. (instead of the useless KGC), then my trust in their integrity might come back. That said, I don't even know if there's a way to police or prevent these kind of cheats from happening - even with a credible third party.
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carlgraham
member
Reged: 06/09/05
Posts: 141
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
You do realize that you're missing my point, right? The U.S. are a super-power but they're not all the world depends on. You CANNOT regulate something that is spread all over the globe and operates from locations such as Costa Rica.. some day Americans will have to realize this.
I think this is a little simplistic. The U.S. has the same authority as any other nation to license/regulate businesses dealing with its citizens. So the government could legalize online gambling, but only for sites which are licensed, then ban all other sites. The WTO accepts reasonable consumer protections (e.g. product safety laws or anti-trust laws), just not outright bans on foreigners doing business. The requirement is that the regulations apply evenly to international entities and domestic ones.
As for licensing, it's quite simple - require independent external audits, file periodic financial records, retain hand histories and hand them over if subpoenaed, submission to U.S. jurisdiction and service of process (i.e. courts), have protections against minors playing, etc. And, of course, pay taxes on profits from Americans!!
I can't see legitimate site which would want to the lucrative (and legal) U.S. market, or risk operating underground rather than legally, just because they didn't like the regulations. Similarly, failure to get the "U.S. Govt Seal of Approval" would probably be somewhat of a scarlet letter - if the regulations were reasonable, what would a site have to hide by not conforming to them?
And how many Americans, when they could directly transfer money to a licensed site, would choose instead to go through the hassle of trying to transfer money through ewallets to sites which don't even bother to adhere to our strict regulations? It would be tantamount to playing at a raked underground poker game, rather than at the licensed casino down the road. Or like sneaking off to South America for a medical procedure available here from licensed doctors.
I think it could not only work, but would benefit casinos and consumers alike by legitimizing the industry.
Cheers, Carl.
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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It looks like AP and UB have been removed from BW.
http://www.bonuswhores.com/site-list.php
They are missing from the site list.
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PMR
newbie
Reged: 05/09/07
Posts: 40
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And yet they have not been blacklisted.
http://www.bonuswhores.com/blacklisted-sites.php
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poker1928
stranger
Reged: 10/15/07
Posts: 9
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I don't know if this has been mentioned, but given that absolute gave that one person everyones IP address, it is not a leap to think that they have before. How difficult would it be for a hacker, if he knew everyones IP address, to create a "superuser" account?
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Josem
Ninja Tar
Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 4780
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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having people's IP addresses would be of no significant value in this situation
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GaryTheGoat
enthusiast
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 374
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Absolute's Superuser Decision: Incorrect/Evidence Public
PokerStars'wcoop2007 Decision: Correct/Evidence Private
Stars Conclusion (short answer = void is owned)
gg
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
And yet they have not been blacklisted.
http://www.bonuswhores.com/blacklisted-sites.php
Yeah I'm looking into that.
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
Quote:
And yet they have not been blacklisted.
http://www.bonuswhores.com/blacklisted-sites.php
Yeah I'm looking into that.
AP has now been blacklisted there.
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goofyballer
Emo Communist
Reged: 06/12/05
Posts: 7108
Loc: THESE IZ THE OLD FORUMZ
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And yet they have not been blacklisted.
http://www.bonuswhores.com/blacklisted-sites.php
Yeah I'm looking into that.
AP has now been blacklisted there.
This is awesome and a huge step imo. I used bw.com a lot when I was first starting out at online poker and my early bankroll was highly dependent on bonus whoring, so hopefully more people like me 3 years ago will see that site and this will make a real monetary impact on Absolute.
BonusWhores is basically a huge affiliate, right? It would be great to see other affiliates step in line and cease advertising and taking new customers for Absolute.
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
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More than that though...I would like to see these sites specifically recommend against playing or depositing there.
Ceasing advertising only accomplishes part of the goal.
However, RTR and TITN and places like that do have a responsibility to their current customers who want to continue to play there I guess. Burning all bridges with AP could result in no more RB payments and then their own customers are unhappy with them for taking such action.
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adanthar
Possibly Too Level Headed
Reged: 04/02/04
Posts: 14174
Loc: Intrepidly Reporting
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Quote:
Don't these moves inhibit our ability to protect ourselves from smart superusers? Some of the listed items were used in breaking this Absolute scandal. I think that the current trend should be towards more transparency not less.
Can we rely on ANY poker site to provide the protection that we're paying for with rake?
To be perfectly honest, I not only think this is an isolated incident, I also think that this has opened a bunch of eyes at various security departments. You won't see Stars, FTP, etc. directly commenting on this because they don't want to speak badly about a competitor, but you can bet a lot of money that they are on top of this (I certainly am), with or without making it clear to everyone else what they're doing.
Certainly, my well educated guess is that no hole card cam account - if they even exist elsewhere - will ever have the ability to be logged into unchecked again.
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Suigin406
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/22/06
Posts: 8613
Loc: fire isiah and minaya
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great to see that AP has now been blacklisted, but who knows if that'll actually affect their traffic...
when i first started playing, BW was a huge help for me when building my BR, so it's nice to see this, it really is
sux for the affiliates, they can't ditch their customers who want to play there though
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Jehaim
Hero bets $1
Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 3375
Loc: His love is everlasting
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Lol at their avatar=
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mother_brain
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/16/05
Posts: 1716
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Quote:
You won't see Stars, FTP, etc. directly commenting on this because they don't want to speak badly about a competitor, but you can bet a lot of money that they are on top of this (I certainly am), with or without making it clear to everyone else what they're doing.
I will agree with this comment 100% once we have evidence that APs site traffic and rake intake has been effected due to this scandal. Until AP's profit is effected by this scandal we have no reason to believe that incentive has been created for the other sites to be more dilligent in their efforts to catch cheaters.
Business 101: if a company doesn't think that doing something will help them profit, they wont do it.
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pokeriz
stranger
Reged: 10/16/07
Posts: 19
Loc: Europe
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I agree with this [censored] 100% too.
here i have more detailed information about AP Cheating Scandal:
http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44393
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Grisgra
Calling you down with K-high.
Reged: 08/17/04
Posts: 4504
Loc: Crying bloody tears at 20/40
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Quote:
I agree with this [censored] 100% too.
here i have more detailed information about AP Cheating Scandal:
http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44393
Not sure if that's more information or more a hypothetical outline of what might have happened.
Also, needs to be corrected:
"There is particular reason to begin on this day, but rather is just an arbitrary date that the rogue programmer decides to begin the operation."
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e_phemeral
enthusiast
Reged: 02/22/06
Posts: 306
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Quote:
Quote:
Wait, what? Now we have the evidence that proves cheating happened, yet we're ignorant to suspect other sites also? You're comming down on AP hard, yet you're quick to tell people they would be foolish to believe this might be happening elsewhere?
No, you're not ignorant to be wary other sites. Any dilligent, reasonable, person, should be constantly considering the security of his/her money. That's fair, and it is actually an important process for anyone to protect their assets.
However, there is a leap between being careful, and believing that other sites are similarly rigged.
There is no evidence that other sites are rigged - so it is not reasonable to believe other sites are rigged.
Of course, if evidence of rigging arose, then you should believe other sites are rigged.
*throughout all my posts, when I refer to "other sites," I mean leading sites such as Stars, Party, and even FTP
Josem, my point is this: Up until this AP story broke, I would never have thought that it was possible for someone to cheat in this way at an online site by having the ability to see everyone else's hole cards. Now based on what I have read here on 2+2 and other sites, I conclusively believe that players on AP have had the ability to view other people's hole cards. The fact that it has happened on one of the major sites logically means that it is "POSSIBLE" (please look up the definition of this word if you don't understand what it means) that this same sort of cheating has gone on or is going on at other sites.
Previously, anyone who asserted that people could cheat and see other people's hole cards in online poker rooms would be shouted down/laughed at/ridiculed. Well, now it has been proven that people can cheat and see other people's hole cards in one of the main online poker rooms serving the US market.
I understand why all you people who make a living off of internet poker are worried. I think you should be.
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Red_Diamond
addict
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 567
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Absolute Poker remains a 100% secure place to play. We value all of our players and we will continue to provide our community with a safe, secure and exciting online poker experience.
The Absolute Poker Management
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jgunnip
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/06/04
Posts: 5321
Loc: shipping ironman bonus medals
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Quote:
Absolute Poker remains a 100% secure place to play. We value all of our players and we will continue to provide our community with a safe, secure and exciting online poker experience.
The Absolute Poker Management
I'm convinced.
kudos to BonusWhores for blacklisting them!
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Guthrie
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 2871
Loc: Underground
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Quote:
Quote:
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Suddenly U.S. regulation is sounding like not such a bad thing.
As a European, It never ceases to amaze me how some Americans tend to think everything on the whole world is subject to their regulation..
Obviously the regulations from Europe aren't getting the job done if this is happening.
You do realize that you're missing my point, right? The U.S. are a super-power but they're not all the world depends on. You CANNOT regulate something that is spread all over the globe and operates from locations such as Costa Rica.. some day Americans will have to realize this.
I think you're the one who is missing the point. The bulk of online poker players are Americans who choose to play at foreign sites despite the risks, and despite the roadblocks put up by the U.S. government, only because that's the only place to play online.
If the U.S. specifically legalizes online poker and starts regulating it they will regulate only U.S. sites. Guess where most of the play will go?
American fish will flock to U.S. sites, regulated by the U.S. government, where they can transfer money in and out directly from their bank, credit card, or any of many other safe and legal options that will suddenly become available.
American pros will follow them, as will pros worldwide. You, of course, can continue to play on rogue sites based in third-world countries, to protest the big bad U.S.
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GrindingIt
journeyman
Reged: 05/13/07
Posts: 83
Loc: GrindingIt
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The funniest thing about these posts is some of the people here calling AP stupid when they're 50 times dumber. Sorry to some people here making some sense but some people in this post are just complete morons with no clue about anything. Listen morons, if it's proved, 95% of fish will quit playing online poker period. This is why most of the original high stakes players backed off. You guys, I assume (and probably incorrectly), make a living off poker. If you want to quit online and play live, great move. Otherwise, do you have any brains at all? And if you don't play for a living wtf do you know about poker?
The best could be done is get proof and use it to make AP pay back people who lost and to get the software tested properly now and in the future to prevent anything from happening again.
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timmay28
enthusiast
Reged: 03/27/07
Posts: 237
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What are the chances that some other competing poker site set this up... just create this "pottipper" account, contact a few high stakes players, and pay them all a nice sum of cash to IM each other and play out hands that make it appear that there's a superuser on the loose?
Probably too much of a stretch but admittedly I know little about this ordeal, just throwing an idea out there.
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Red_Diamond
addict
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 567
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That could backfire badly, why risk it? To many people, negative attention is better than no attention at all. Thus, AP is getting perhaps millions of dollars of free advertisement from this.
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Noodles.
enthusiast
Reged: 06/03/07
Posts: 395
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Quote:
What are the chances that some other competing poker site set this up... just create this "pottipper" account, contact a few high stakes players, and pay them all a nice sum of cash to IM each other and play out hands that make it appear that there's a superuser on the loose?
Probably too much of a stretch but admittedly I know little about this ordeal, just throwing an idea out there.
So basically what you are saying is that all people in the tourney knew about what was happening and were paid for it? (Otherwise POTRIPPER might be at a table with unknowing people)
LOL try again.
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KurtSF
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/06/06
Posts: 3983
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Update: the IP and email address of the superuser account was traced to one Scott Tom, CEO of Absolute poker.
See the latest in this thread.
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golfnutt
journeyman
Reged: 10/11/07
Posts: 91
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Quote:
Quote:
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Suddenly U.S. regulation is sounding like not such a bad thing.
Then we take a look at American public schools. Suddenly US regulation sounds like a bad thing again.
Public schools are more than regulated by the govt. They are operated by the govt. Regulating a private industry is a different matter. A better analogy would be casinos, which are regulated by the govt but still run by private enterprise.
+1
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Mason Malmuth
Grand Poobah
Reged: 08/28/02
Posts: 5654
Loc: Nevada
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Hi Absolute Support:
I think you're going to have to give more thorough explanations than what you have here, and you need to do it not only in this thread but in the thread in our other forum Poker Beats, Brags, and Variance located here.
I have written before, that it is very important for a poker room to not only be honestly run, but for players to have the perception that it is honestly run. When an honest poker room looses the confidence of its players, it can mean a significant drop in business for that poker room, and this should be true whether it is a B&M or an Internet cardroom.
So I recommend to you, given the size and scope of these threads, to invest the time and answer every issue that you can to the satisfaction of our posters. I believe it's in your best interest.
Best wishes,
Mason Malmuth
Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
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GaryTheGoat
enthusiast
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 374
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Quote:
Hi Absolute Support:
I think you're going to have to give more thorough explanations than what you have here, and you need to do it not only in this thread but in the thread in our other forum Poker Beats, Brags, and Variance located here.
I have written before, that it is very important for a poker room to not only be honestly run, but for players to have the perception that it is honestly run. When an honest poker room looses the confidence of its players, it can mean a significant drop in business for that poker room, and this should be true whether it is a B&M or an Internet cardroom.
So I recommend to you, given the size and scope of these threads, to invest the time and answer every issue that you can to the satisfaction of our posters. I believe it's in your best interest.
Best wishes,
Mason Malmuth
Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Thanks Mason.
gg
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DMoogle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/04/06
Posts: 2462
Loc: Oakton, VA, USA
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Owned by Mason Malmuth.
gg indeed. 
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ibluffoldladies
addict
Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 671
Loc: 3-betting your grandmother
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Thanks Mason. I'm glad to see you share our concerns.
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questions
addict
Reged: 01/11/07
Posts: 611
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Totally with Mason on this. I will not be redepositing on Absolute for the time being, and am having serious second thoughts about Ultimate Bet. A fuller explanation is in order.
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questions
addict
Reged: 01/11/07
Posts: 611
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I'm one of the luckier players because I'm a net winner on Absolute, though I wonder how much more I would have won? Anyway, it doesn't matter. I won't be playing on Absolute anymore, and won't be redepositing anything serious on UB.
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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Quote:
Hi Absolute Support:
I think you're going to have to give more thorough explanations than what you have here, and you need to do it not only in this thread but in the thread in our other forum Poker Beats, Brags, and Variance located here.
I have written before, that it is very important for a poker room to not only be honestly run, but for players to have the perception that it is honestly run. When an honest poker room looses the confidence of its players, it can mean a significant drop in business for that poker room, and this should be true whether it is a B&M or an Internet cardroom.
So I recommend to you, given the size and scope of these threads, to invest the time and answer every issue that you can to the satisfaction of our posters. I believe it's in your best interest.
Best wishes,
Mason Malmuth
Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Thanks Mason glad to see 2+2 stepping up to the plate on this issue..I hope other orgs. do the same...How Absolute handles this "issue" can have a lasting impact on online poker for some time esp considering the current legal climate..
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Yo'Maha
enthusiast
Reged: 10/24/05
Posts: 229
Loc: Land of the Donkeys
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Quote:
Do they really care more about their ads than about poker players, and could therefore condone cheating?
Of course they do.....After the UIGEA, this could be the death-blow to the mainstream poker movement as we know it. Even after the UIGEA, look at the percentages of magazine ads by internet sites. With only a handful remaining that accept US Players, these mags would simply go out of business without them.
I've noticed quite a few live-game cheating articles lately.......everything from how to mark cards to player collusion at the tables. I've yet to see even a hint of online problems. If anything, they seem to be protecting the online game while villifying the live game. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not....but interesting to say the least.
This will unfortuantely go nowhere...and AP knows it.
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MicroBob
Johnny Chan Spotter
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 29344
Loc: The cat is back by popular dem...
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Thanks Mason. Definitely glad to see you speak up.
Might be better to send it directly to AP but one assumes they have people who continue to read this stuff even if they choose not to respond so I assume your post here is probably as good as sending it to them directly.
hoping Mason and 2+2 will consider refusal of advertising dollars from AP pending a better dialogue on this issue.
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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For those that do not follow the BBV thread(you really should BTW)..
Absolute Poker Management wishes to inform the poker community of the following information in response to the most recent claims posted over the past 48 hours on the 2+2 and Pocket Fives forums wherein again it is alleged that some person or persons breached Absolute Poker’s redundant and varying levels of game client security. As was stated in Absolute Poker’s Official Response released on Friday October 12, 2007, Absolute Poker conducted an extensive investigation in response to the claims it was made aware of and received. The results of that investigation indicated that to the best of Absolute Poker’s knowledge, information and belief there was no security breach. Specifically, Absolute Poker’s internal investigation determined that it is impossible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards.
Based on the most recent claims that Absolute Poker has been made aware of and at the request of some of our players and business partners, Absolute Poker has agreed to retain a widely acclaimed independent third party auditor, Gaming Associates, to conduct an independent audit of Absolute Poker’s security systems. Specifically, Absolute Poker has requested that Gaming Associates conduct a thorough and extensive review of Absolute Poker’s practices and security systems to determine whether it is possible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards thereby gaining an unfair advantage. (http://www.gamingassociates.com)
Absolute Poker has agreed to fully cooperate with Gaming Associates and its investigative team and to provide the above with unfettered access to all systems, protocols and databases at Absolute Poker worldwide. Absolute Poker has also agreed to allow Gaming Associate’s final report to be made available to Pocket Fives and Bluff Media for their review.
With respect to the claims that Scott Tom, a former Member of Team Absolute Poker, is in anyway involved in wrong-doing, Absolute Poker has requested a formal investigation into that matter as well. Mr. Tom has not been involved with Absolute Poker for over a year and to the best of our knowledge, information and belief has not had access to any of Absolute Poker’s systems, databases or information.
Absolute Poker reserves the right to pursue any and all remedies whether in law or equitable which may procure to it as a result of any unlawful and injurious actions taken by any individuals who may have falsified any information, documents, files, or have by other means attempted to disparage and/or harm Absolute Poker, its Players, its current or former management, employees, business partners or affiliates.
Absolute Poker shall bear all expenses related to such investigation and is eager to learn about Gaming Associate’s findings. Absolute Poker highly values and intends to protect its players, shareholders, business partners, and affiliates.
Absolute Poker Management
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ubercuber
addict
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 695
Loc: 2 12 blitzin FICS
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I tend to buy into BS hook line and sinker, but this seems like a reasonable response.
I didn't cash everything out... left some chump change on ...I currently have no way to get money back on! Main roll now at Stars.
I hope like hell that AP pulls off an integrity laden, clusterbomb, and salvages their reputation. (Going back to the already hard enough bonus structure that existed pre sleeze days would be a nice gesture!)
As long as ABS is reading these, I am going to hijack for 1 sec, sorry:
NON WITHDRAWAL BONUS. Why should I jump through hoops to get $600 onto a site for a bonus, when I already have $600+ on the site? Dumb. I AM FROM THE US! SEE THE NEWS LATELY? MOVING MONEY IS A PAIN NOW! WHATEVER WAS THE POINT OF ME WITHDRAWING, WAITING 3 THREE DAYS AND DEPOSITING? JUST PUT THE BONUS IN THE ACCOUNT BASED ON PRESENT BALANCE FOR THE PROMO START DATE, MOST U.S. PLAYERS WOULD JUST LEAVE MONEY THERE. WOOT! (That is assuming you get your logic caps adjusted and start firing rounds at the gamblers worst enemy. Luck is a bitch sometimes, but cheaters never make it up to you. F[cencorced]S!!! Fire!  Shoot! Kill! Gut! Bleed! Display!)
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jeffnc
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/18/04
Posts: 1631
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Quote:
Of course they do.....After the UIGEA, this could be the death-blow to the mainstream poker movement as we know it. Even after the UIGEA, look at the percentages of magazine ads by internet sites. With only a handful remaining that accept US Players, these mags would simply go out of business without them.
I've noticed quite a few live-game cheating articles lately.......everything from how to mark cards to player collusion at the tables. I've yet to see even a hint of online problems. If anything, they seem to be protecting the online game while villifying the live game. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not....but interesting to say the least.
That makes no sense at all considering the number of ads for live casinos.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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Quote:
Thanks Mason. Definitely glad to see you speak up.
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rbnn
newbie
Reged: 09/28/07
Posts: 33
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Could you please fix the "loose" misuse?
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HatesLosing
member
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 153
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I think it's obvious that SOMEONE on the inside has access to hole cards, otherwise the security people at AP couldn't do their job properly. What is being suggested is that someone who was, or is, on the inside was somehow relaying hole cards to the user "POTRIPPER", and NOT that "POTRIPPER" saw the hole cards directly through the client that everyone else downloads.
It's fairly obvious that "POTRIPPER" knew his opponent's hole cards to anyone who has a clue about Hold Em strategy.
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AudioPhile84
stranger
Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 14
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http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/20...lown-wide-open/
There's a NY Times article about this. AP's latest statement seems to be a threat that they will sue people who accuse them of cheating. Oh well, I'm glad I don't play on there.
"Absolute Poker reserves the right to pursue any and all remedies whether in law or equitable which may procure to it as a result of any unlawful and injurious actions taken by any individuals who may have falsified any information, documents, files, or have by other means attempted to disparage and/or harm Absolute Poker, its Players, its current or former management, employees, business partners or affiliates."
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Pokeraddict
addicted to poker
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 4535
Loc: Not Absolute
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Quote:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/20...lown-wide-open/
There's a NY Times article about this. AP's latest statement seems to be a threat that they will sue people who accuse them of cheating. Oh well, I'm glad I don't play on there.
"Absolute Poker reserves the right to pursue any and all remedies whether in law or equitable which may procure to it as a result of any unlawful and injurious actions taken by any individuals who may have falsified any information, documents, files, or have by other means attempted to disparage and/or harm Absolute Poker, its Players, its current or former management, employees, business partners or affiliates."
Yeah I'd like to see AP sue people in the U.S. That will go over well. They are entirely in the wrong anyway and I would think as far as the U.S. court system feels they are a fraud for simply accepting U.S. players. IMO that is just a baseless threat.
BTW if any of this was falsified why have they not come out to prove it wrong?
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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Quote:
Quote:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/20...lown-wide-open/
There's a NY Times article about this. AP's latest statement seems to be a threat that they will sue people who accuse them of cheating. Oh well, I'm glad I don't play on there.
"Absolute Poker reserves the right to pursue any and all remedies whether in law or equitable which may procure to it as a result of any unlawful and injurious actions taken by any individuals who may have falsified any information, documents, files, or have by other means attempted to disparage and/or harm Absolute Poker, its Players, its current or former management, employees, business partners or affiliates."
Yeah I'd like to see AP sue people in the U.S. That will go over well. They are entirely in the wrong anyway and I would think as far as the U.S. court system feels they are a fraud for simply accepting U.S. players. IMO that is just a baseless threat.
BTW if any of this was falsified why have they not come out to prove it wrong?
This could turn out to be an interesting twist...I am no Lawyer and have very limited legal knowledge..But could the APS "super user" scandal lead to legal online poker in the USA..
The US court system has NEVER ruled that online poker is against the Law..In fact the courts have ruled a number of times the the 61 Wire Act only applies to Sports Betting(re The Master card case for example) and APS has no connection to sports betting..If APS did bring suit in the US it would "force" a US Court to rule on the "Legality" of poker ONLY in order to establish "standing"(hope that's the correct use of the legal term)...Even if APS case was completely baseless(which I believe without a doubt it would be) the courts would first have to rule on the "legality" of poker..
I am 100% against APS and how they have handled this situation...
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jgunnip
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/06/04
Posts: 5321
Loc: shipping ironman bonus medals
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There is new information today that not only is user #363 likely a former AP employee but that the POTRIPPER account is also likely a former AP employee and close associate of the #363 account
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Henry17
veteran
Reged: 08/09/07
Posts: 1285
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Quote:
The US court system has NEVER ruled that online poker is against the Law..In fact the courts have ruled a number of times the the 61 Wire Act only applies to Sports Betting(re The Master card case for example) and APS has no connection to sports betting..If APS did bring suit in the US it would "force" a US Court to rule on the "Legality" of poker ONLY in order to establish "standing"(hope that's the correct use of the legal term)...Even if APS case was completely baseless(which I believe without a doubt it would be) the courts would first have to rule on the "legality" of poker..
I don't understand why APS would have to get a ruling on online poker being legal to get standing.
The reason they will never sue anyone is because the damage to APS caused by the publicity of a lawsuit would be much greater then they could ever hope to recover.
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1p0kerboy
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 6026
Loc: 492k
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More breaking news in the BBV thread a bit ago.
They found out who's account it was that was cheating.
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Bobo Fett
il buono, il cattivo, il cacciatore di bounty
Reged: 05/06/06
Posts: 3283
Loc: Canada, Eh!
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This is the latest thread, btw.
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oap876
newbie
Reged: 05/16/06
Posts: 36
Loc: Miami, FL
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I am pretty sure that they are going to [censored] themselves when they read this.
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biggsyxx
stranger
Reged: 10/11/07
Posts: 2
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just watched it now on u-tube....i didnt really buy in to this 'seeing all the hole cards'....first thing i thought was credit card fraud...seemed like 1 player playing at least 5 of the acounts himself...and some of the worst disguised chip dumping ive ever seen. He could have been cheating for while and was dumping chips to his 'exit' account, but the manner of the dumping was just plain ridiculous. My bets prob a credit card scam...but im pretty certain its the same person filling a table with his own accounts.
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Jim Kuhn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/03/02
Posts: 2757
Loc: USA
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Link to cliffnotes and recent developments HERE. Those threads are massive but the cliffnotes do a great job of summarizing this situation.
Thank you,
Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
  
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KEW
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 1883
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Quote:
just watched it now on u-tube....i didnt really buy in to this 'seeing all the hole cards'....first thing i thought was credit card fraud...seemed like 1 player playing at least 5 of the acounts himself...and some of the worst disguised chip dumping ive ever seen. He could have been cheating for while and was dumping chips to his 'exit' account, but the manner of the dumping was just plain ridiculous. My bets prob a credit card scam...but im pretty certain its the same person filling a table with his own accounts.
Nice trick.. How could this be done in a Multi-table tourney with random seating
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highhustla
old hand
Reged: 07/31/05
Posts: 993
Loc: San Diago
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Quote:
just watched it now on u-tube....i didnt really buy in to this 'seeing all the hole cards'....first thing i thought was credit card fraud...seemed like 1 player playing at least 5 of the acounts himself...and some of the worst disguised chip dumping ive ever seen. He could have been cheating for while and was dumping chips to his 'exit' account, but the manner of the dumping was just plain ridiculous. My bets prob a credit card scam...but im pretty certain its the same person filling a table with his own accounts.
THANK GOD WE FINALLY CRACKED THE CASE
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Yo'Maha
enthusiast
Reged: 10/24/05
Posts: 229
Loc: Land of the Donkeys
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Quote:
just watched it now on u-tube....i didnt really buy in to this 'seeing all the hole cards'....first thing i thought was credit card fraud...seemed like 1 player playing at least 5 of the acounts himself...and some of the worst disguised chip dumping ive ever seen. He could have been cheating for while and was dumping chips to his 'exit' account, but the manner of the dumping was just plain ridiculous. My bets prob a credit card scam...but im pretty certain its the same person filling a table with his own accounts.
This is getting black-helicopter crazy.....who is bigsyxx? 2 posts and he doesn't agree.....? .......fishy....
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PokerGOAT
newbie
Reged: 10/04/05
Posts: 30
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Someone has likely mentioned this but here's my theory. Absolute Poker had nothing to do with this thread. The former president guy who cheated did so just out of spite, his only motivation to hurt AP. He obviously didn't care that it looked obvious, he counted on it. I bet he knew there was little chance he'd actually see any of the money so he just dumped it off to random people at high stakes games. Then to make AP look even worse he made this post pretending to be from AP since if that is an actual response, WOW GG AP.
Edited by PokerGOAT (10/21/07 08:02 AM)
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GaryTheGoat
enthusiast
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 374
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Quote:
Someone has likely mentioned this but here's my theory. Absolute Poker had nothing to do with this thread. The former president guy who cheated did so just out of spite. He obviously didn't care that it looked obvious, he counted on it. I bet he knew there was little chance he'd actually see any of the money so he just dumped it off to random people at high stakes games. Then to make AP look even worse he made this post pretending to be from AP.
Nah...Nah...Nah...Nah...Nahhhhhh...from one goat to another.
gg
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LouisCyphre
veteran
Reged: 06/05/06
Posts: 1214
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Quote:
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This thing reads like a Stephen King novel.
Disgruntled employee decides to screw AP. He fixes an update so his accounts can see hole cards. He cheats in such a way that it is inevitable it will be noticed. When the expected "investigation" is concluded and AP thinks it has swept the problem under the rug, he makes his HHs publicly available. AP [censored] with the wrong dude. They should have known better-- his name is Louis Cyphre.
Damn. I can't fool you. You see right through my well-laid plans.
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JennGirlBad
stranger
Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 22
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I guess all this stuff is kind of scary but if you think about it there are far deeper scandals at the highest levels of business and government, so these last few issues (Stars/Void, FT/Bots and ABS/PotRipper) seem to pale in comparison for an industry that outsiders might have already deemed as dubious.
I think it brings to light how the sites should respond to situations like this in the future and follow the Stars business practice of leading the way in security.
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Jim Kuhn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/03/02
Posts: 2757
Loc: USA
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This post is most likely from Absolute Poker. The email address is from Absolute and the ip traces to Costa Rica. They have been reading these forums and would have disputed this post if their management had not posted this thread.
Thank you,
Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
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ski
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/26/06
Posts: 2810
Loc: Leaving Thailand soon.
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Looking back on it, they almost certainly knew all along.
"We examined screen shots from Poker Tracker Software that displayed an “infinite” river aggression factor for one of the player accounts at issue. We examined similar screen shots which showed a lower but still relatively high river aggression factor. We were very concerned by this anomaly. Accordingly, we reviewed each and every hand that this player played during the relevant time period and determined that while the play was extremely aggressive, particularly on the river, there were several instances where the player merely called on the river."
like when he had an unimproved 23o....see we're not cheating, why would we just call the river with 23o unimproved if we were cheaters?
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_Kindred_
newbie
Reged: 10/14/06
Posts: 44
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I hope absolute poker DIES. Anyone that plays there should have their head examined.
Think about how bad their "collusion detection" has to be if this went unoticed. Die AP
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Two Plus Two 
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