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Voltaire
member


Reged: 10/09/06
Posts: 160
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: Punker]
      #10985224 - 06/29/07 03:47 AM

Obviously with such a rating, you are a big favorite. Such a match would be the equivalent of rope-a-dope. But Curtains won't take you up on it, and you know it.

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curtains
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 05/04/03
Posts: 13960
Loc: Philadelphia
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: Voltaire]
      #10985235 - 06/29/07 03:48 AM

Quote:

Curtains, I've known a lot of chess players, and one thing I've learned is that some of them have no idea how good a grandmaster is. They haven't a clue about the kind of work that goes into playing at that level.

Apparently that is exactly the nerve I hit. You don't know me from Adam, but you would be very unwise to spot me a rook.





ok but if you were the one who said there would be a differnece between whether you were playing a GM or IM in this bet, then you don't understand really. Honestly the difference between me and a GM in this bet is neglible and I actually think I'll do better than a lot of GM's because it becomes less about chess and more about psychology and predicting how a bad player will play. Given that I play poker and thus have a strong practical feel I feel confident that my results would equal those of maybe 30-50% of GMs in this type of bet. Since your opponents need to make mistakes for you to win, it comes down often to predicting what kind of mistakes your opponents are likely to make. At least I think this is true.

Also the things that GM's understand that I don't understand are hardly going to be applicable in a game against such weak opposition. Hence I have reason to doubt someone's chess understanding if they think that a GM will beat a 1500 in this bet but an IM will only beat a 1300. Its probably only going to be a 50 point difference on average with this specific type of wager.


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Voltaire
member


Reged: 10/09/06
Posts: 160
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: curtains]
      #10985348 - 06/29/07 04:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Curtains, I've known a lot of chess players, and one thing I've learned is that some of them have no idea how good a grandmaster is. They haven't a clue about the kind of work that goes into playing at that level.

Apparently that is exactly the nerve I hit. You don't know me from Adam, but you would be very unwise to spot me a rook.





ok but if you were the one who said there would be a differnece between whether you were playing a GM or IM in this bet, then you don't understand really. Honestly the difference between me and a GM in this bet is neglible and I actually think I'll do better than a lot of GM's because it becomes less about chess and more about psychology and predicting how a bad player will play.



I agree about the psychology, and the point I was going to make is that it is the "extras" of hard work, maniacal devotion, and starting young that make the major difference between IMs and GMs. But there is also a psychological level, and the great GM are also masters at that level, whereas a lot of IMs are just gifted chess players who started playing young and encountered a lot of distractions and never really had the passion or drive (or stupidity!)to become GMs.

Consequently, I think that a GM would find some way to win a rook down significantly more often against a weaker player than an IM would.

But you're right, now that I think about it. Against Durrr as a, I guess, 950 player, it wouldn't make much difference.

Could Durrr (or a similar player) be hustling you? Playing over the two games (by the way, was ...Qxg7 in game one the best move?) it seems clear that you would win even more easily if there were another match. Some posters think Durrr would learn what he needs to do to win, but I suspect for a long time things will just get worse for him since the teacher always learns more about the student than the student learns about the teacher.


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aislephive
Ninja Edit Mastar


Reged: 10/02/05
Posts: 6874
Loc: And now the children are aslee...
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: Voltaire]
      #10985393 - 06/29/07 04:19 AM

Curtains,

How many more pieces / which ones do think you would have to get rid of before the bet becomes +EV for durrr? Do you think you could still win if your queen was taken?


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almostbusto
veteran


Reged: 03/11/06
Posts: 1262
Loc: unemployed
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: curtains]
      #10985396 - 06/29/07 04:19 AM

-Curtains


grats on the score! i just wanted to say i have loosely followed you and your sister since around 2000 when i caught some of your games in chess life. I had an autographed copy of your sister's chess life cover on my wall for like 4 years in college (the black and white one that came out shortly after her winning the women's title i think).

/end stalker rant.


I think a lot of people don't realize:
how god awful durr is at chess.
how great curtains actually is (even though he is rusty).
how hard it is for someone at durr's level to even get to the 1200-1400 level (for most people).
how much the clock plays a role in the odds making. ie, greg might be even money against a 1300 down a knight at G60, but a huge favorite at 5 minute blitz chess, and a dead lock at 1 minute chess over the internet.

i don't know if greg has experience at 1 minute time controls, but if he has the mousing skills, i bet he could take out some pretty experienced opponents down a rook. however, at tournament time controls, i would probably crush him every game i manage to avoid making a really out of character blunder. I am USCF 1726 (small sample size) fwiw, 1700 (lifetime high of 1992) on fics blitz over 6000+ games.


also:

Total time online: 65 days, 6 hrs, 54 mins
% of life online: 2.4 (since Fri Mar 3, 14:22 PST 200


EDIT: just logged in, i guess i am down to the 1630's right now... talk about a downswing...
)

Edited by almostbusto (06/29/07 04:45 AM)


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apefish
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 4673
Loc: To the pain
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: curtains]
      #10985527 - 06/29/07 04:40 AM

Quote:

Game 2, I'm black, queen's rook is missing. At the very end when he lost his queen he had only a few seconds left.


1.g3 d5 2.Bg2 e5 3.d3 c6 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.Bd2 Bg4 6.Nc3 Qc8 7.h3 Be6 8.e3 Nf6 9.Qe2 0-0 10.Ng5 Bd7 11.e4 d4 12.Nd1 c5 13.f4 h6 14.Nf3 Nh5 15.Qf2 exf4 16.Bxf4 Bxf4 17.gxf4 Nxf4 18.Qg3 Qc7 19.Qh2 f5 20.b3 fxe4 21.dxe4 Qa5+ 22.Nd2 Nc6 23.Rf1 g5 24.h4 Nb4 25.Rc1 Qa3 26.Rb1 Nxc2+ 27.Kf2 Qb4 28.Nf3 g4 29.Qg3 Kh7 30.a3 Qb6 31.Bh1 d3 32.Ne3 c4 33.Qxf4 Rxf4 34.Kg3 Qxe3 0-1





Curtains, congrats on the win but please stop helping aholes build the bomb k thnx.


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El Diablo
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 33802
Loc: Parts Unknown
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: apefish]
      #10985556 - 06/29/07 04:44 AM

curtains,

When I was like 7 I used to play chess and I was pretty much the best kid among the kids I played with. And this was in London, I'm not talking about dumb American chess playing kids. Anyway, my teacher said I would be awesome if I played more, but I didn't bother. If I had kept playing chess I would totally be able to kick your ass now.


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Spechel EDD
h0t PiNk 4|yf3


Reged: 01/13/05
Posts: 9665
Loc: crUNKviLLE
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: rory]
      #10985595 - 06/29/07 04:51 AM

Quote:

as an example of an amateur getting gang raped by a GM down a rook:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1242893




wow this is absolutely incredible. watching this i kept thinking why the hell he was giving up pieces so easily like that.


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shaniac
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/22/02
Posts: 4386
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: Spechel EDD]
      #10985614 - 06/29/07 04:56 AM

This thread makes me wish I knew how to play chess.

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almostbusto
veteran


Reged: 03/11/06
Posts: 1262
Loc: unemployed
Re: Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for ra [Re: El Diablo]
      #10985631 - 06/29/07 04:59 AM

-El Diablo


i know your post was sarcastic, but apparently you are Indian, so yea you might be right.

that is a classic a chess myth though, everyone thinks they are pretty decent at chess or they had potential in the game because they beat up on all their buddies/family members who can hardly visualize how a knight moves. they don't realize that probably translates to 600-800 strength.

in reality, the game is a bitch. i am a pretty smart guy, i have put a lot of effort into my game, i have a bunch of chess books on my shelves, and i am an absolute nobody at the game. i am barely skilled enough to be considered respectable at the club level. i takes a lot of work and dedication to be at all decent at the game. the one exception might be if you are exposed to great players from a young age and have access to tutoring and coaching. i am completely self-taught (well i learned from books so i guess thats not *completely* self-taught) so i wouldn't know how much having a mentor would help. i never played someone who was 1400 strength in person until about 3 or 4 years after i bought my first chess book. one of the pitfalls of living in the rural west.

Edited by almostbusto (06/29/07 05:00 AM)


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