Terms & Conditions

Internet Magazine

Non–US new players
Get five 2+2 books


Order Books
Book Translations
Forum Login
 
 
Expand All   Collapse All

 Two Plus Two 
2+2 Magazine Forum
Special Sklansky Forum
2+2 Pokercast
About the Forums

 General Poker Discussion 
Beginners Questions
Books and Publications
Televised Poker
News, Views, and Gossip
Brick and Mortar
Home Poker
Beats, Brags, and Variance
Poker Theory
Poker Legislation

 Coaching/Training 
StoxPoker
DeucesCracked

 German Forums 
Poker Allgemein
Strategie: Holdem NL cash
Strategie: Sonstige
Internet/Online
BBV
Small Talk
German Poker News

 French Forums 
Forum francophone
Strategie
BBV (French)

 Limit Texas Hold'em 
High Stakes Limit
Medium Stakes Limit
Small Stakes Limit
Micro Stakes Limit
Mid-High Short-handed
Small Stakes Shorthanded
Limit––>NL

 PL/NL Texas Hold'em 
High Stakes
Medium Stakes
Small Stakes
Micro Stakes
Small-High Full Ring
Micro Full Ring

 Tournament Poker 
Small Stakes MTT
High Stakes MTT
MTT Community
STT Strategy
Tournament Circuit

 Other Poker 
Omaha/8
Omaha High
Stud
Heads Up Poker
Other Poker Games

 General Gambling 
Probability
Psychology
Sports Betting
Other Gambling Games
Entertainment Betting

 Internet Gambling 
Internet Gambling
Internet Bonuses
Affiliates/RakeBack
Software

 2+2 Communities 
Other Other Topics
The Lounge: Discussion+Review
El Diablo's General Discussion
BBV4Life

 Other Topics 
Golf
Sporting Events
Politics
Business, Finance, and Investing
Travel
Science, Math, and Philosophy
Health and Fitness
Student Life
Puzzles and Other Games
Video Games
Laughs or Links!
Computer Technical Help
Sponsored Support Forums
RakebackNetwork
RakeReduction.com
Other Links
Books
Authors
Abbreviations
Calendar
Order Books
Books by Others
Favorite Links
Feedback
Advertising Information
Home
Posting Hints
Privacy Notice
Forum Archives

The 2+2 Forums

Before using this Forum, please refer to the Terms and Conditions (Last modified: 2/26/2006)

Be sure to read the   Two Plus Two Internet Magazine

This is an archive. The main forums are here

These forums are read only.


 
UBB.threads™ Groupee, Inc.

Other Topics >> Video Games

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | >> (show all)
zyrrth
old hand


Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 879
Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot
      #13177858 - 11/29/07 09:00 PM

http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/gamespot-editor-fired-over-kane--lynch-review-328244.php



Rumor is he has been fired because Eidos who bought a ton of ads on the gamespot frontpage weren't too pleased with his review of the game.
If you've ever been at gamespot.com you'll probably know him since he has been a reviewer there for 10 years iirc.

If it's true it certainly destroys any cred gamespot had left.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Senor Cardgage
old hand


Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1080
Loc: Re-financin'
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: zyrrth]
      #13178456 - 11/29/07 09:44 PM

I never really liked this guy's reviews to be honest, but if that's true... wow, that sucks.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4 High
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 06/28/05
Posts: 3617
Loc: Team Pretendinitis
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Senor Cardgage]
      #13178573 - 11/29/07 09:55 PM

Wow that sucks.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
toss
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/30/04
Posts: 7915
Loc: Almusto
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: zyrrth]
      #13178605 - 11/29/07 09:58 PM

At first I was like "that sucks" then I saw his 8.8 rating for Twilight Princess.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
astroglide
retired


Reged: 09/04/02
Posts: 13836
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: toss]
      #13178887 - 11/29/07 10:21 PM

Quote:

At first I was like "that sucks" then I saw his 8.8 rating for Twilight Princess.




i didn't play TP, but i was in the room while my gf was going through it. the wolf sections looked lame, there was a fairy audibly sighing every five seconds, the wagon on fire section looked very annoying, the androgynous huge-eyed cutscene graphics were disturbing, etc. i'm sure the game is good overall, but using ocarina as a baseline of 10 it's hard for me to imagine TP breaking 9 in my book if i actually played it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack of Arcades
The People's Champ


Reged: 01/30/05
Posts: 13859
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: astroglide]
      #13179124 - 11/29/07 10:39 PM

I'm not sure I could really be precise enough for a 100 point scale but 9 sounds right for Twilight Princess.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
toss
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/30/04
Posts: 7915
Loc: Almusto
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: astroglide]
      #13180014 - 11/29/07 11:39 PM



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GetThere1Time
insidious


Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 11334
Loc: burning hundreds
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: toss]
      #13180688 - 11/30/07 12:34 AM



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
toss
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/30/04
Posts: 7915
Loc: Almusto
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: GetThere1Time]
      #13181028 - 11/30/07 01:01 AM

Lol

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jeremy517
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 07/11/04
Posts: 3083
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: toss]
      #13181835 - 11/30/07 02:09 AM

Off the original topic: I'm a huge Nintendo and Zelda fan, but I think 8.8 is too high for TP. Everything outside of the dungeons was not good at all, and was a huge step back from MM and WW. Also, the Palace of Twilight and Hyrule Castle were not up to Zelda standards.

On the original topic: Yeah, that sounds pretty suspicious.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bakku
(not) bustobusto


Reged: 02/03/04
Posts: 2786
Loc: nightman
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: astroglide]
      #13182324 - 11/30/07 02:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

At first I was like "that sucks" then I saw his 8.8 rating for Twilight Princess.




i didn't play TP, but i was in the room while my gf was going through it. the wolf sections looked lame, there was a fairy audibly sighing every five seconds, the wagon on fire section looked very annoying, the androgynous huge-eyed cutscene graphics were disturbing, etc. i'm sure the game is good overall, but using ocarina as a baseline of 10 it's hard for me to imagine TP breaking 9 in my book if i actually played it.




i agree with all of this except for the wagon on fire section, which i thought was fine. the wolf parts were super lame and borderline unbearable. some of the optional heart piece quests were retarded. i'm sure there were other things i didn't like about the game when i played it but i can't remember anymore. giving TP an 8.8 is fine imo


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JuntMonkey
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 05/27/05
Posts: 3655
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: bakku]
      #13183175 - 11/30/07 05:07 AM

This sucks because I recently started loving their podcasts and now they'll be down a man (don't even know which one he is and probably won't notice he's gone, but whatever).

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dire
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 11/14/05
Posts: 2511
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: JuntMonkey]
      #13183364 - 11/30/07 05:41 AM

Wow... an oddly well timed anecdote from Shacknews regarding Eidos' treatment of reviewers.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zyrrth
old hand


Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 879
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Dire]
      #13183879 - 11/30/07 07:31 AM

Here's the video review he did for kane and lynch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FuJ81sDR2o
for some reason it's not linked to on the kane and lynch gamespot site, hmmmmmm.
They also removed the k&l ads on their frontpage.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nicholasp27
27th level thinker


Reged: 08/24/04
Posts: 24908
Loc: Springfield
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: zyrrth]
      #13184384 - 11/30/07 09:00 AM

this is gonna hurt

a) gamespot
b) eidos
c) cnet


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zyrrth
old hand


Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 879
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Nicholasp27]
      #13184406 - 11/30/07 09:03 AM

post by a guy who says he was involved in the K&L ads
http://www.forumopolis.com/showpost.php?p=1869780&postcount=52


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dibbs
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 12/29/04
Posts: 3203
Loc: Parts Unknown
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Nicholasp27]
      #13184422 - 11/30/07 09:05 AM

I just learned they were owned by Cnet which kinda spooks me, I put a lot of stock into Cnet reviews on tech stuff and thought them to be pretty unbiased, now I'll always have to wonder.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4 High
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 06/28/05
Posts: 3617
Loc: Team Pretendinitis
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: dibbs]
      #13184480 - 11/30/07 09:14 AM

Of course now that they've been fired we will hear people like that one dude claim "there were always problems, he had issues" etc.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nicholasp27
27th level thinker


Reged: 08/24/04
Posts: 24908
Loc: Springfield
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: dibbs]
      #13184547 - 11/30/07 09:25 AM

an insider has said he was fired over the 'tone' in his video review

this would be somewhat backed up by the fact that they've removed many of the links to the video review on their site


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scotchnrocks
*


Reged: 03/15/06
Posts: 808
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: 4 High]
      #13184570 - 11/30/07 09:28 AM

What a shame. I used to have a lot of confidence in Gamespot reviews. When they give something a 6.0, I believe it must have deserved it. Whoever said this will only serve to hurt Gamespot is correct. Screw them and Cnet if this is how they want to run their show.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack of Arcades
The People's Champ


Reged: 01/30/05
Posts: 13859
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: scotchnrocks]
      #13185131 - 11/30/07 10:29 AM

Reviews are usually a joke, it's hard to find good ones.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ThaSaltCracka
Brotha TSC


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 24282
Loc: Team Slayer!
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Jack of Arcades]
      #13185455 - 11/30/07 11:02 AM

Quote:

Reviews are usually a joke, it's hard to find good ones.


I don't agree with this. Most of the reviews I have read for games I have most recently played have all been pretty spot on.


The big issue here is that it now throws the legitimacy of any review in question.

FWIW, this has been a problem with music reviews as well. Several record labels have threatened to pull advertising money from magazines or websites if they get bad reviews from them.

I say [censored] that [censored], [censored] POS companies. You think this is communist Russia? Worried about bad reviews? THEN MAKE GOOD STUFF!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
astroglide
retired


Reged: 09/04/02
Posts: 13836
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: toss]
      #13186016 - 11/30/07 11:46 AM

lame graphic overuse, toss. i have watched most of the game being played for hours on end.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AceLuby
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 05/08/06
Posts: 3769
Loc: Rockin my new guitar instead o...
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Jack of Arcades]
      #13187249 - 11/30/07 01:28 PM

Quote:

Review scores are usually a joke, it's hard to find good ones.




FYP

The reviews themselves are usually good, but the scoring system is terrible.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
goofyballer
Emo Communist


Reged: 06/12/05
Posts: 7108
Loc: THESE IZ THE OLD FORUMZ
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: AceLuby]
      #13187395 - 11/30/07 01:39 PM

1UP.com usually seems to tilt their scores upwards less than most other sites (IIRC they gave NHL 2K8 a 40).

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack of Arcades
The People's Champ


Reged: 01/30/05
Posts: 13859
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: AceLuby]
      #13187849 - 11/30/07 02:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Review scores are usually a joke, it's hard to find good ones.




FYP

The reviews themselves are usually good, but the scoring system is terrible.




The 100 point scale is useless, nobody's going to be able to say "hmm, this is a 7.4, it's better than that game I gave a 7.3 but worse than that one I gave a 7.5)."

I made a spreadsheet of all PS2 reviews from IGN (minus duplicates).

1254 (88%) were rated as 5 or better.

877 (61%) were rated as 7 or better.

752 (52%) were rated as between 7 and 8.9

The average rating was a 7, and the median was a 7.3.

Here are the ranges for IGN's 100 point scale:

1-1.9 Abysmal
2-2.9 Terrible
3-3.9 Bad
4-4.9 Poor
5-5.9 Mediocre
6-6.9 Passable
7.0 Decent
7.5 Good
8.0 Impressive
8.5 Great
9.0 Outstanding
9.5 Incredible
10 Masterful

IGN seems to recognize that their scale is bogus, which is why they made it more granular toward the end.

Here are the totals for the above ranges:

Abysmal: 2
Terrible: 28
Bad: 52
Poor: 104
Mediocre: 140
Passable: 237
Decent: 196
Good: 191
Impressive: 200
Great: 165
Outstanding: 97
Incredible: 28
Masterful: 0

Using this scale you get a decent bell curve, but you still get the weird anomaly of having more "great" games than "mediocre" ones, and more "Impressive" games than anything but "passable," but that's due to 13% of games getting exactly a 7 or an 8.

47% of all games were rated "good" or better. Were there really 700 good ps2 games?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DVaut1
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 11/22/04
Posts: 4751
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Jack of Arcades]
      #13188103 - 11/30/07 02:33 PM

Quote:

47% of all games were rated "good" or better. Were there really 700 good ps2 games?




700 sounds like alot. Then again, 7 years is an eternity in the life of a console and the PS2 (up until very recently) was still going strong with a constant flow top-tier releases.

And I'd also be willing to bet that 100 to 150 of those "good" games are iterations/releases of the sports franchises.

EA Sports alone has Madden, NCAA Football, March Madness, NBA Live, MVP Baseball, Tiger Woods, NASCAR, NHL, FIFA, Fight Night, Arena Football; Sega/Visual Concepts has the '2k' series of games (annual NBA & NHL releases plus history of '2k' versions of college basketball, college football, MLB, NFL). Most of these games usually garner "good" or better ratings from IGN.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ThaSaltCracka
Brotha TSC


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 24282
Loc: Team Slayer!
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: DVaut1]
      #13188213 - 11/30/07 02:43 PM

I don't think it unrealistic that most games that are released are at least above average. I mean, why else would it have been released if they didn't think people would buy it? People won't generall just buy [censored]. A video game is not like a CD, where you can sell tons of pop crap because its popular. It actually has to be good for a lot of people to buy it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dire
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 11/14/05
Posts: 2511
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: ThaSaltCracka]
      #13188238 - 11/30/07 02:45 PM

Quote:

I don't think it unrealistic that most games that are released are at least above average. I mean, why else would it have been released if they didn't think people would buy it? People won't generall just buy [censored]. A video game is not like a CD, where you can sell tons of pop crap because its popular. It actually has to be good for a lot of people to buy it.




Maybe this is just semantics, but I equate average with the mean. So it'd be impossible, by definition, for the majority of released games to be 'above average'.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DVaut1
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 11/22/04
Posts: 4751
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: ThaSaltCracka]
      #13188310 - 11/30/07 02:51 PM

Quote:

I don't think it unrealistic that most games that are released are at least above average.




I think some people would argue this is a contradiction in terms.

I think what JoA is arguing is that on a 1-10 scame, a rating of "5" should indicate a median game, ie., a game where roughly half the games available are better and half the games are worse. Instead, IGN seems to use the rating of "7.3" to indicate a median game. I suppose this is okay, except they use a 1-10 scale, so a rational reader might expect the median game to be a 5. IGN even heightens the confusion by labeling 'median' games, ie, games which have a rating around "7.3" as between "decent" and "good", while maintaining a "5" rating is still "mediocre", when "5" really means (using the history of how they've rated their games as a metric) "clearly below average".


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Blarg
I'll let others elaborate


Reged: 06/06/04
Posts: 27473
Loc: Who is Fistface?
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: ThaSaltCracka]
      #13188530 - 11/30/07 03:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Reviews are usually a joke, it's hard to find good ones.


I don't agree with this. Most of the reviews I have read for games I have most recently played have all been pretty spot on.


The big issue here is that it now throws the legitimacy of any review in question.

FWIW, this has been a problem with music reviews as well. Several record labels have threatened to pull advertising money from magazines or websites if they get bad reviews from them.

I say [censored] that [censored], [censored] POS companies. You think this is communist Russia? Worried about bad reviews? THEN MAKE GOOD STUFF!




Since when haven't reviews been questionable though? This has been an ongoing problem since gaming mags and websites started. It's not new and it will never go away.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AceLuby
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 05/08/06
Posts: 3769
Loc: Rockin my new guitar instead o...
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Blarg]
      #13188604 - 11/30/07 03:12 PM

I've adopted the notion of reading the article and seeing if I would like it based on what they wrote. It's usually pretty objective. The number has really become useless IMO.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dire
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 11/14/05
Posts: 2511
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Blarg]
      #13188612 - 11/30/07 03:13 PM

Another problem that hasn't been mentioned is that it's not only publishers who want inflated reviews. Many times it's also the readers. For example, when the extremely hyped Lair received a 4.9/10 from PSM - readers (who obviously had never played the game) were completely outraged and on their site there were numerous posts of people flaming and stating they were cancelling their membership. Obviously there's no way to know if anybody actually did (or if they were even subscribed in the first place), but it still shows the mentality - and yet another problem reviewers/sites have.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JaredLModerator
Hippy


Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 10851
Loc: No te olvidamos
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Dire]
      #13188645 - 11/30/07 03:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't think it unrealistic that most games that are released are at least above average. I mean, why else would it have been released if they didn't think people would buy it? People won't generall just buy [censored]. A video game is not like a CD, where you can sell tons of pop crap because its popular. It actually has to be good for a lot of people to buy it.




Maybe this is just semantics, but I equate average with the mean. So it'd be impossible, by definition, for the majority of released games to be 'above average'.




You meant median I guess.

If there are 3 games with scores of 1,7 and 10 then their average is 6 and 2 of the 3 are above average.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack of Arcades
The People's Champ


Reged: 01/30/05
Posts: 13859
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Blarg]
      #13188681 - 11/30/07 03:18 PM

If you count up every game rated "good" or better that has another game in the series rated "good" or better, you end up with 377 games from 112 series.

If you just look at those as part of a big series (With 2 or more other games rated "good" or better" it's at 295 games from 70ish series.

So there's about 250-300 games "good" or better that were stand alone games or with [censored] sequels. A couple of more games are in series that cross platforms. Some others are debatable (ie, Bully, Arena Football). I'm going to attempt to make a final list of all ps2 games that fit a certain criteria of stand-alone games.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dire
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 11/14/05
Posts: 2511
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: JaredL]
      #13188899 - 11/30/07 03:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't think it unrealistic that most games that are released are at least above average. I mean, why else would it have been released if they didn't think people would buy it? People won't generall just buy [censored]. A video game is not like a CD, where you can sell tons of pop crap because its popular. It actually has to be good for a lot of people to buy it.




Maybe this is just semantics, but I equate average with the mean. So it'd be impossible, by definition, for the majority of released games to be 'above average'.




You meant median I guess.

If there are 3 games with scores of 1,7 and 10 then their average is 6 and 2 of the 3 are above average.




You know what I mean. 5 games of 1 10 10 10 10 and 80% are >= the median too! Oh noes!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jack of Arcades
The People's Champ


Reged: 01/30/05
Posts: 13859
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: JaredL]
      #13188903 - 11/30/07 03:34 PM

Well, yeah, but when there are 1400 reviews the mean (7) and median (7.3) are pretty close.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scotchnrocks
*


Reged: 03/15/06
Posts: 808
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Blarg]
      #13189131 - 11/30/07 03:51 PM

Quote:


Since when haven't reviews been questionable though? This has been an ongoing problem since gaming mags and websites started. It's not new and it will never go away.




I agree. Video games reviews are a subjective thing. The reviewer is basically reviewing a piece of art. There's no hard quantifiable data to assist in balancing things out, it is purely the reviewer's opinion.

With cars there is horsepower, lap times, etc. Video cards have specs on their hardware that can help differentiate them, etc.

There will never be a perfect system for reviewing video games, our best hope is an impartial reviewer.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ThaSaltCracka
Brotha TSC


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 24282
Loc: Team Slayer!
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: scotchnrocks]
      #13189408 - 11/30/07 04:10 PM

Dire, DVaut, you two Gents are correct.

In some ways this is like the rating scale for women.

Clearly 5 is the middle of the ground, completely average, etc... blah blah blah. But most people seem to say 7 is average, 8 is great, 9 is amazing, 10 is perfect. Its like numbers 1-6 are thrown away, or have equal value, which isn't true. So, yeah, those average games should be a 5, but come on, when they say 7, we know what they mean. Its average.

A rating on a scale means what people want it to mean. In this case, 7 out of 10 means average.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ThaSaltCracka
Brotha TSC


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 24282
Loc: Team Slayer!
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: scotchnrocks]
      #13189434 - 11/30/07 04:11 PM

Quote:

There will never be a perfect system for reviewing video games, our best hope is an impartial reviewer.


This is impossible though.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
vulturesrow
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 7937
Loc: Old Right
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: ThaSaltCracka]
      #13189489 - 11/30/07 04:15 PM

Quote:

Dire, DVaut, you two Gents are correct.

In some ways this is like the rating scale for women.

Clearly 5 is the middle of the ground, completely average, etc... blah blah blah. But most people seem to say 7 is average, 8 is great, 9 is amazing, 10 is perfect. Its like numbers 1-6 are thrown away, or have equal value, which isn't true. So, yeah, those average games should be a 5, but come on, when they say 7, we know what they mean. Its average.

A rating on a scale means what people want it to mean. In this case, 7 out of 10 means average.




Flawed analogy IMO. You only need a 3 point scale for women:

0, never; 1, after a few beers; 3, yes.

Questions?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Senor Cardgage
old hand


Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1080
Loc: Re-financin'
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: vulturesrow]
      #13190789 - 11/30/07 05:42 PM

Yeah, the tension between 5 or 7 being average seems to stem from school grading, IMO. When you're used to thinking of anything 60% or below as failing, it kind of makes sense.

I do wish the games were more spaced out, with 5 being around the mean. When the average game is around a 7, there's not as much space to differentiate between the good and great games.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Blarg
I'll let others elaborate


Reged: 06/06/04
Posts: 27473
Loc: Who is Fistface?
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Senor Cardgage]
      #13191360 - 11/30/07 06:15 PM

I like the 7 being construed as average because it applies so well to so many things in ways that actually matter. Though there may be large variations in the disgustingness of food or the unattractiveness of women, for instance, it doesn't really matter. The numbers lower than 7 are functionally identical if we discount the influence of alcohol. At which point we're past the ability to argue fine distinctions anyway.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zyrrth
old hand


Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 879
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Blarg]
      #13192696 - 11/30/07 07:56 PM

Tycho (Penny Arcade) who got the story out:
It's been a couple weeks discussing reviews and reviewers around here, but somewhere along the way I neglected to mention that their job is essentially impossible. The 7-9 scale they toil under is largely the result of an uneasy peace between the business and editorial wings of the venue. No matter what score they give it, high or low, they're reviled equally by the online chorus. Apparently, even when they do it right they're doing it wrong.

Jeff Gerstmann is no stranger to controversy. In general terms, Gamespot can be relied upon to give high-profile games scores which are slightly lower than their counterparts elsewhere. It's almost as though there is an algorithm in place there to correct the heady rush associated with cracking open an anticipated new title. Gerstmann's 8.8 review of Twilight Princess cemented his reputation as a criminal renegade with no law but his own, even though he gave the game an 8.9 - a nine, essentially - out of ten.

I will tell you the Gerstmann Story as we heard it. Management claimed to have spoken to Jeff about his "tone" before, and no doubt it was this tone that created tensions between their editorial content, the direction of the site, and the carefully crafted relationships that allowed Gamespot to act as an engine of revenue creation. After Gerstmann's savage flogging of **** & *****, a game whose marketing investment on Gamespot alone reached into the hundreds of thousands, Eidos (we are told) pulled hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of future advertising from the site.

Management has another story, of course: management always has another story. But it's the firm belief internally that Jeff was sacrificed. And it had to be Jeff, at least, we believe, precisely because of his stature and longevity. It made for a dramatic public execution that left the editorial staff in disarray. Would that it were only about the 6.0 - at least then you'd know how to score something if you wanted to keep your Goddamned job. No, this was worse: the more nebulous "tone" would be the guide. I assume it was designed to terrify them.

For Gabriel, this tale proves out his darkest suspicions. People believe things like this anyway, but they don't know it, and the shift from intuitive to objective knowledge is startling. I think it rarely gets to this point. The apparatus is very tight: there are layers of editorial control that can massage the score, even when the text tells a different tale. A more junior reviewer might have seen their **** & ***** review streamlined by this process, divested of its worrisome angles and overall troubling shape. It was Jeff Gerstmann's role high in the site's infrastructure that allowed his raw editorial content to pierce the core of the business.

(CW)TB out.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
toss
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/30/04
Posts: 7915
Loc: Almusto
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: astroglide]
      #13192798 - 11/30/07 08:05 PM

I really wished you played it if just for a little bit.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cassette
veteran


Reged: 02/19/05
Posts: 1289
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: zyrrth]
      #13192940 - 11/30/07 08:16 PM

I liked that guy.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Khaos4k
veteran


Reged: 02/23/06
Posts: 1313
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: cassette]
      #13193052 - 11/30/07 08:25 PM

I think gamespy's scoring system is perfect. 5 star instead of 10 point or 100 point system. Average gets a 2.5-3.5 while great games get a 4 and game of the year candidates get 5's.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zyrrth
old hand


Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 879
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Khaos4k]
      #13193302 - 11/30/07 08:47 PM

http://valleywag.com/tech/jeff-gerstmann/gamespot-editor-on-fired-writer-328775.php

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GetThere1Time
insidious


Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 11334
Loc: burning hundreds
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: zyrrth]
      #13193608 - 11/30/07 09:11 PM



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dire
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 11/14/05
Posts: 2511
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: GetThere1Time]
      #13193627 - 11/30/07 09:12 PM

lol... wait. is that a photoshop?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Blarg
I'll let others elaborate


Reged: 06/06/04
Posts: 27473
Loc: Who is Fistface?
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: zyrrth]
      #13193659 - 11/30/07 09:15 PM

Interesting link!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GetThere1Time
insidious


Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 11334
Loc: burning hundreds
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Dire]
      #13193670 - 11/30/07 09:17 PM

I have no idea. I found it in the bowels of the internet. Looks weird but my guess is that's because it was slapped in paint and made into a jpg (which explains the fuzz) but legit. Either way, lol.

edit: then again the red lines are bleeding off the page. still funny though

Edited by GetThere1Time (11/30/07 09:19 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zyrrth
old hand


Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 879
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: GetThere1Time]
      #13196018 - 12/01/07 01:05 AM



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
scotchnrocks
*


Reged: 03/15/06
Posts: 808
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: zyrrth]
      #13196383 - 12/01/07 01:43 AM

Quote:

http://valleywag.com/tech/jeff-gerstmann/gamespot-editor-on-fired-writer-328775.php




wow


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JaredLModerator
Hippy


Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 10851
Loc: No te olvidamos
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: scotchnrocks]
      #13196773 - 12/01/07 02:23 AM

I think 8.8 is fair for Twilight Princess. Twice in the game (wolf parts both times) I said [censored] it and didn't play for a few days. I started again only after being convinced to keep going by one or both of Chuckleslovakian or MadTown.

I don't think a game which is that frustrating should get more than 9/10.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dromar
old hand


Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 995
Loc: All-in...
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: JaredL]
      #13199584 - 12/01/07 11:37 AM

Quote:

I think 8.8 is fair for Twilight Princess. Twice in the game (wolf parts both times) I said [censored] it and didn't play for a few days. I started again only after being convinced to keep going by one or both of Chuckleslovakian or MadTown.

I don't think a game which is that frustrating should get more than 9/10.




I thought TP was a reasonably good game, but I prefer a more stringent point allocation (namely ave=5 rather than 7). I'd give TP an 8.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Thanir
very hairy little japanese boy


Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 626
Loc: Truckee
Re: Jeff Gerstman fired from Gamespot [Re: Dromar]
      #13205189 - 12/01/07 07:17 PM

Quote:

In the growing wake of the controversy surrounding GameSpot's alleged firing of editorial director Jeff Gerstmann comes a little bit of surprising solidarity.

A bunch of Ziff Davis staffers (including 1Up) made a banner to show their support for fellow game reviewers and marched it the two blocks to the GameSpot building on Friday. The banner, and impromptu march, shows that despite being competition, what may have happened at GameSpot could have wide-spread implications in the game publication industry.

We're also told that the Kane & Lynch user reviews on Gamespot have been, at least temporarily, disabled and there are rumors that people are canceling their Gamespot accounts "en masse."




http://kotaku.com/gaming/advertorials/1up-shows-support-for-gamespot-reviewers-328882.php

Good to see other publications see the problems this could cause.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 1 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  JaredL, Mike Haven 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 1759

Rate this topic

Jump to

contact us 2+2 Publishing

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Message Boards and Forums Directory

Pages provided by ConJelCo