Terms & Conditions

Internet Magazine

Non–US new players
Get five 2+2 books


Order Books
Book Translations
Forum Login
 
 
Expand All   Collapse All

 Two Plus Two 
2+2 Magazine Forum
Special Sklansky Forum
2+2 Pokercast
About the Forums

 General Poker Discussion 
Beginners Questions
Books and Publications
Televised Poker
News, Views, and Gossip
Brick and Mortar
Home Poker
Beats, Brags, and Variance
Poker Theory
Poker Legislation

 Coaching/Training 
StoxPoker
DeucesCracked

 German Forums 
Poker Allgemein
Strategie: Holdem NL cash
Strategie: Sonstige
Internet/Online
BBV
Small Talk
German Poker News

 French Forums 
Forum francophone
Strategie
BBV (French)

 Limit Texas Hold'em 
High Stakes Limit
Medium Stakes Limit
Small Stakes Limit
Micro Stakes Limit
Mid-High Short-handed
Small Stakes Shorthanded
Limit––>NL

 PL/NL Texas Hold'em 
High Stakes
Medium Stakes
Small Stakes
Micro Stakes
Small-High Full Ring
Micro Full Ring

 Tournament Poker 
Small Stakes MTT
High Stakes MTT
MTT Community
STT Strategy
Tournament Circuit

 Other Poker 
Omaha/8
Omaha High
Stud
Heads Up Poker
Other Poker Games

 General Gambling 
Probability
Psychology
Sports Betting
Other Gambling Games
Entertainment Betting

 Internet Gambling 
Internet Gambling
Internet Bonuses
Affiliates/RakeBack
Software

 2+2 Communities 
Other Other Topics
The Lounge: Discussion+Review
El Diablo's General Discussion
BBV4Life

 Other Topics 
Golf
Sporting Events
Politics
Business, Finance, and Investing
Travel
Science, Math, and Philosophy
Health and Fitness
Student Life
Puzzles and Other Games
Video Games
Laughs or Links!
Computer Technical Help
Sponsored Support Forums
RakebackNetwork
RakeReduction.com
Other Links
Books
Authors
Abbreviations
Calendar
Order Books
Books by Others
Favorite Links
Feedback
Advertising Information
Home
Posting Hints
Privacy Notice
Forum Archives

The 2+2 Forums

Before using this Forum, please refer to the Terms and Conditions (Last modified: 2/26/2006)

Be sure to read the   Two Plus Two Internet Magazine

This is an archive. The main forums are here

These forums are read only.


 
UBB.threads™ Groupee, Inc.

PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> Small Stakes

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)
djoyce003
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/29/04
Posts: 5374
Loc: pimpin ho's
Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero)
      #6004357 - 05/30/06 02:32 PM

I posted this in another thread started by Fallen Hero, but after posting my original thoughts, i've developed a few others that I think are worthy of including, and therefore should be included....thus I'm copying my original and adding to it. Sorry if this causes you to read it twice.

First rule of reads - You have to apply any reads you have to the context and history of the hand....does it make sense what the villain is doing?

Example from the other day. I pick up queens in the BB. 4 limps to me, including the SB. I raise it 8xbb. Folds to SB (who is TAG). SB goes all in for 50bb's. Does that make sense? Could he have possibly gone for a limp-reraise with AA or KK here with only the BB left to act who is OOP for the rest of the hand? The answer is clearly no. He put me on the squeeze play and assumed I had garbage. I didn't, I called, and I stacked his completely dominated QJ. Whenever an opponent makes a play, does it make sense in the context of the hand.

A few really valuable reads to have on villains.

Valuable read 1 - villains that overplay TPTK

One of my villain's notes is "plays TPTK like the nuts, even with it's TP of 9's. Raised and called all in with A9 on a 7889 threeflush board."

I've used that read to stack a particular villain at least 4 times.

However, this has to done in the context of the hand. Conversely if you have a read that a loose passive opponent can't fold top pair, and the flop comes 7 high and he'd raised preflop with a relatively narrow raising range, you know he's not going crazy with TPTK...you know he's got an overpair.

Valuable read 2 - Plays way too agressively when there is a flush draw on the board.

These villains are great to flop big hands against in position because you never even have to bet or raise because you know they don't have the draw either. Example, you have pocket 7's in position. Villain raises, you call. Flop comes XX7 with 2 spades. Villain pots it, you call. Turn - blank, villain pushes, you call and stack his AA that he overplayed due to the draw-heavy board.

Valuable Read 3 - total donkey calling station

One of the best reads known to man. Do not semi-bluff these guys, do not threebet all in with a coin flip hand because they'll call, and you are only 50/50....try to catch your hand because they will call once you catch it too. They can't fold TP even on a straigthening flushing board. Value bet, value bet, value bet. I called a $20 turn bet against one of these guys into a $10 pot with a flush draw last week on a TJQK board. Rivered the flush, push overbet for $250 and he called with the ace hi straight.

Valueable read 4 - minbets draws

You've all seen these guys. They minbet into you and try to draw cheap, then they go ahead and call your big raise. I really have no idea what they are thinking...they know they can't pay full price to draw, which is why they bet small, but then they call a raise anyway. Punish these guys, and fold if any draws come home.

Valuable read 5 - minraises small pockets/SC's/suited aces preflop.

Some villains will typically minraise either small pockets, or sc's or suited aces preflop...they don't usually minraise all three, but lots of villains will minraise at least one of these. If you start getting action with a big hand on a ragged board or a board like 55K, you can generally figure they've got the trips with top kicker, or a set on a 852 board or something similar. It can save you money a lot of the time..or you can PUNISH them on a 55K board when you've got KK because you KNOW they've got A5.

Valuable read 6 - can't read boards and tell when he's counterfeited. Also, the converse "smart enough to know he just got counterfeited"

These villains are great. Flop comes 228, and they have 89. You bet with Jacks and they call. Turn 9...you bet they raise, you reraise, and villain has top 2...can't fold right, even though TT+ kills them, which you represent. They don't realize your 2 pair beats them. This is a great read to have. Good LAGS typically realize this but still can't fold. Example from above 982 though, you bet and get raised...think you might be behind to 98 so you flat call. Turn comes a 2, and now villain checks.....now you've got him. Start value-betting, he'll probably call.


Valuable read 7 - minbet-threebets monsters

These are great too because they let you get away cheap. Villain leads into you with a minbet on a draw heavy board knowing you'll raise. You oblige, and now the threebets all in with a set...you easily dump your hand (provided you have this read). Villain doesn't realize he could have potted it and gotten a much bigger raise out of you but hey...his bad play is why you are here.

Valueable read 8 - plays ALL draws agressively

A read that an opponent plays big draws agressively doesn't really help you much other than including the big draw in his range when he's raising on a draw heavy board.

A read that an opponent will play ANY draw agressively is however. Any ragged 2 flush board with him raising makes it easier to include the draw and not a set as his likely holdings. Same thing on connected flops like A78....makes it easier to put him on 9T or 56 and lets you know by his action if he's hit. A good way to determine if villains got a monster or not is to flat call his flop raise when OOP and donk into him on the turn. If he raises you again, it's generally a big hand. If he calls he's probably got the draw and that lets you play the river perfectly. Against a lot of these villains if you threebet the flop big you are likely to get raised all in and are then faced with a tough decision. I generally like to call their flop raise, and then disappoint them by donking a PSB on a blank turn, this destroys their odds and eliminates tough decisions on your part as very few of them have the guts to go all in at that point.

Valuable Read 10 - makes weak C-bets with whiffed hands, makes big c-bets with hands that connected

These villains are really easy to float against with nothing, or punish with big hands. If a villain makes a weak c-bet into me I'll generally raise if I think he'll fold right on the flop, or wait until the turn to raise as that's always more scary and almost always gets a fold. Conversely, if the villain makes a PSB and I have nothing, I know I can safely fold and won't try to float because I know he's got a hand. This is why it's so critical that you always make your cbets a standard size.

Valuable read 11 - Does not consider pot size when determining the strength of a bet

Some villains associate the size of the bet in relation to the stakes as a strong bet, rather than the size of the bet in relation to the pot. For example...some villains think their $10 bet into a $50 pot is strong because it's a big bet for $50NL. We as a group typically consider that a weak bet...but if the villain doesn't, beware.

Valuable Read 12 - villain ALWAYS raises in the BB if it's a headsup blind battle and the SB completes.

This read makes you money in a number of ways. First you know not to complete with hands you want to play OOP to a raise, because you know you'll get one. And second you KNOW he's raising so you limp with TT+ and punish him when he does. After enough of these you can start limping and not expect a raise.

Valuable read 13 - Villain reraises light and flatcalls with truly big hands.

I found a TAG villain that religously reraises with marginal hands (AJ for example) but NEVER reraises with AA/KK. This makes him easy to play against because if he reraises you, you know your AK is good on an a K hi flop, because AA isn't in his reraise range.

Valuable Read 14 - Calls pot-size bets on draws on the flop AND turn, then either goes for the checkraise when it hits (or donk bets it, depends on villain)

Lots of villains (myself included) will call smallish PSB's on the flop with draws. Not as many will call on the turn. The ones that will call large turn bets are truly great buddies for life and worth following around. When you get called by one of these guys on the flop on a draw heavy board. You must make a PS turn bet, screw pot control, punish these donkies. Conversely, slow way down when the draw hits and consider folding. The other great thing about these guys if that they'll almost always go for a checkraise when they complete their draw, disappoint them by not letting them get the checkraise in.

Marginal but sometimes valuable timing tells

Assuming a villain normally acts in a certain period of time, sometimes something outside of that normal range can give you a tell. The most common one is the delayed call or bet. If a villain raised on the flop and then a flush card falls, and that villain takes an inordinately long period to act after the card hits, it's almost a certainty that he hit the flush. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this and it's been the flush. They are thinking that you'll associate their long thought period with weakness, but in reality it's strength. I generally insta-fold TP with this read and i'm almost always right. This read is subject to a villain that is only single-tabling though. If it's against a multi-tabling tag it's not as reliable as he could be acting on another table, etc.

Other Ramblings - Absent reads I'm typically very reluctant to call large river bets with good, but not unbeatable hands. I've gotten burned by this lately with things like K high flushes facing pushes and losing to the nut flush, things like that. Villains typically just don't bet rivers huge without the nuts or near nuts. Also beware of the full pot size bet or slight overbet if you checked the turn behind after a draw hit. This almost always signifies a whiffed turn-checkraise that the villain is trying to make up for. If a villain is capable of bluffing the river with missed draws and things of that nature, then calling is standard, but I have to have a read to make me do this and it has to be a very good read.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
keikiwai
BBV Lollercoaster Safety Technician


Reged: 02/17/05
Posts: 19541
Loc: Hi. My name is Rosa Kato <3
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: djoyce003]
      #6004488 - 05/30/06 02:41 PM

nice post. i responded in the other thread. i think another very important tell is whether checking induces a bluff or not.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Johan L
addict


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 489
Loc: NL100$ FR 15/5/2.5
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: djoyce003]
      #6004519 - 05/30/06 02:45 PM

This is good material!
How many tables do you play simultaneously?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Poker Fool
addict


Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 574
Loc: on your left
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: Johan L]
      #6004540 - 05/30/06 02:46 PM

worth waiting for, much thanks.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
djoyce003
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/29/04
Posts: 5374
Loc: pimpin ho's
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: Johan L]
      #6004634 - 05/30/06 02:54 PM

I don't have a good poker setup (I just play on my work laptop) so I usually 3 table. Also the showndown hands feature in PokerAce has been invaluable in that I know instantly what they had and how they played it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Johan L
addict


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 489
Loc: NL100$ FR 15/5/2.5
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: djoyce003]
      #6004678 - 05/30/06 02:57 PM

Take some of yoyr roll and buy two Samsung syncmaster 214T and a stationary PC with VGA and DVI out, use "Extend desktop" and 8 table with style?

It makes sense that you dont play that many tables when you have developed such excellent reads!
Best post ever?

You can have my avatar if you want it...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Heine
addict


Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Midland
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: djoyce003]
      #6004735 - 05/30/06 03:01 PM

Pure gold.

Most of these i use every chance i get. I always note how they play sets as well. Great post, and everyone should read it once or twice just to keep their note taking sharp.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
quarkncover
SSNL Grand Nagus


Reged: 05/01/05
Posts: 3210
Loc: Quark's Bar
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: djoyce003]
      #6004760 - 05/30/06 03:03 PM

Great Post Djoyce.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jk3a
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 10/22/05
Posts: 3531
Loc: The 816, Holla
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: djoyce003]
      #6004831 - 05/30/06 03:09 PM

Could someone please tell me what a squeeze play is?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Al_Money
Soon to be Al Busto


Reged: 01/27/06
Posts: 3460
Loc: 1/2-2/4, AIM in profile
Re: Belated Carpal Tunnel Post - Reads (hijacked from Fallen Hero) [Re: djoyce003]
      #6004836 - 05/30/06 03:09 PM

Quote:


Valueable read 4 - minbets draws

You've all seen these guys. They minbet into you and try to draw cheap, then they go ahead and call your big raise. I really have no idea what they are thinking...they know they can't pay full price to draw, which is why they bet small, but then they call a raise anyway. Punish these guys, and fold if any draws come home.





I see this so much it's not even funny. Good post.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 40 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Isura, orange, ajmargarine, 4_2_it, Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta, Mike Haven 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating: *****
Topic views: 19088

Rate this topic

Jump to

contact us 2+2 Publishing

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Message Boards and Forums Directory

Pages provided by ConJelCo