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PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> Small Stakes

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fimbulwinter
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 06/15/04
Posts: 3000
Loc: Posting Less
My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage
      #1618086 - 01/27/05 06:07 AM

Well, im done getting the polo for the gf and clearing the bonus. I'm once again free of poker.

Final results:

6max
Hands: 1400
$ earned (poker): 271
$ earned (bonus): 200
PTBB/100 (poker): 19
PTBB/100 (bonus): 14
VP$IP: 42%
PFR: 19%

Quick Thoughts: the game is beatable, no question. The real question is why aren't a lot of players killing it. after playing bigger games, coming back to a game like 25NL is a pleasure; players can be induced to act like you want them to and tell you exactly what they hold with their betting.

I understand some people are having trouble getting started, and I too once struggled with even these games. Here are a few huge mistakes and small pointers that i think might give some of you guys an extra edge.

A Few Common Mistakes:

1. Not value betting the river. this i bad, especially when in position against an opponent who is very unlikely to be drawing. this (VERY) often happens on J and T high boards where it's almost given that someone has hit with KT or AJ and the other guy hit his connector. Players always seem to dog this; remember that river value bets are the best money in holdem, because the loser is always drawing dead. Don't leave this money on the table.

2. Not allowing a probable drawer to bluff the river. very often when the flop comes Ace etc. people will call to the river to try and spike their flush. sometimes they have as little as $5 left by the river and only a busted draw to show for it. most players holding a strong ace at 25NL will shove it in and inevitably fold out the drawer; if you're out of position check it to him and let him try a desperation bluff; you want him to pay his whole stack for his draw, not just most of it.

3. Not river bluffing when it's hopeless and you've been betting. say you've been betting a flush and gutshot draw and its the river with 30 bucks in the pot and the probable drawer checks to you. almost all 25NL players check behind here and i can't say how many times two draws were shown down in these types of pots. the bluff doesnt and shouldnt be big, you just want them to lay down a higher nopair than you have. remember that this only has to work a small amount of time if you're betting 1/3 pot, and the times I try it i'd guess it works about 50% of the time, so take that EV.

4. Raising when you're either waaay ahead or waaay behind. In a hand I had AQs on button and bumped it. 3 callers. flop came A73 rainbow and someone led into me. either i'm crushed or i'm killing them, and i probably won't be able to get away from this given the 25NL players and the short stacks, so instead of raising when bet into, i just call. this looks weak and induces further bluffs. make your decision right there how to play it and go with your read, if you call there you call down the rest of the hand, even if a 7 or 2 peels off. if you're MAKING them bluff then you MUST call. in the hand the run came an ace and the guy bet again, i called. river blanked and he pushed, i called and he showed KQo. If i'd have raised the flop i'd have made a little. by taking a small risk, i made a lot. note this does not apply to draw heavy boards, so raise those likely semibluffs, but not the pure bluffs.

5. slowplaying the wrong kinds of hands. people ALWAYS slowplayed sets. one hand a guy had JJ on a J98 flop and pushed in on the river with a board of 389JQ. slowplaying should depend not on the strength of hand but on the likelyhood of it being outdrawn. one hand an habitual lag be into my A7s on a board of A33r in an unraised pot. i'f i'm ahead, he has few outs, if im behind he'll probably get paid as he was such a terrible lag. I called and put a blocker out on the turn and river and took a nice pot against his 88.

6. open limping in agressive games. there's a reason it pays to bet in poker; namely because the other guy might fold and you win without having to make a hand. if you're holding a hand that doesnt want a raise, either raise it yourself or fold it. getting in the habit of limp/fold with many hands is suicide, espcially with a positonal lag on the table, and there will be many as you move up.

7. overall, draws were played horribly by all. remember, headup, draws are not +EV if you check/call. the bets are too big to give good pot odds and the stacks too short to give enough implied odds. if you have a great draw, like a straight/gutshot+lush draw, get super aggro. make him lay down or take a coinflip. if you have a good draw, like a flush draw with a possibly clean overcard, either play it passively multiway or aggro headup. if you flop a crap draw, like a low flush draw on a high paired board, FOLD. you DON'T need to play every draw you flop.

8. adjust your starters by stack depth. if you and two other guys at the table have 150BB's (as was very common in this game) you can play 64o from LP. if you have 20BB's, you can play KTo, but stay away from that hand when deep unless you're playing it just for broadway straight value. look at what you can win and make hands that can win that sized pots: <40BB's make TPTK, megadraws (like AKs on a twoflush board) and overpairs; 40<x<100 go for two pair, sets and straights; after that go for anything he can't see.

Good luck out there guys. remember to think about what you WANT to happen and bet your money such that it does. use your stack to control the other guy and eventually break him. even at these levels, players can be coached to think what you want them to; so do it.

fim


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DBowling
veteran


Reged: 08/18/04
Posts: 1533
Loc: O/8 newbie
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: fimbulwinter]
      #1618130 - 01/27/05 06:38 AM

fanfuckingtastic post. should be stickied.

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naegid
newbie


Reged: 11/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Scotland
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: fimbulwinter]
      #1618165 - 01/27/05 07:11 AM

Genius!

This is low stakes NL gold. Thank you for taking the time to post it!


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TrailofTears
veteran


Reged: 07/12/04
Posts: 1279
Loc: My game is eternally rusty.
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: fimbulwinter]
      #1618333 - 01/27/05 08:44 AM

Nice post fim. Much appreciated and should be read and re-read by all who post here. Now, why don't you stick around a bit longer...

- ToT


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SideCash
journeyman


Reged: 02/18/04
Posts: 76
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: fimbulwinter]
      #1618372 - 01/27/05 09:01 AM

On point one, value bet the river, in that situation, with AJ, J still high card on board. How big of a bet do you make on the river?

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sourbeaver
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 1710
Loc: Back > Start
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: SideCash]
      #1619484 - 01/27/05 12:47 PM

Quote:

On point one, value bet the river, in that situation, with AJ, J still high card on board. How big of a bet do you make on the river?




The generic answer is : you bet as much as you think your opponent will call. Put yourself in his spot, imagine the hand he's holding, and imagine what kind of bet you would call in that spot. If it's obvious he's on a busted draw, let him take a shot at a bluff like fim suggested. If you figure he's on second-pair on TP-weak-kick, make an almost insulting bet, such that he'll be compelled to call, or even raise in some situations.

Let's say the pot is 10, you could bet 1-3.
Pot is 20, bet 2-4.

These are numbers I generally use and get called a nice amount of time with dead hands.


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noggindoc
old hand


Reged: 10/28/04
Posts: 939
Loc: Richmond
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: fimbulwinter]
      #1619837 - 01/27/05 01:36 PM

Many thanks for an excellent post fim, this is definitely the type of post that makes this a great website.

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miajag
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 06/18/03
Posts: 8266
Loc: Bawlmer, hon
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: fimbulwinter]
      #1620672 - 01/27/05 03:10 PM

Outstanding post. This has been my bread-and-butter game lately, and all of your advice is right on.

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Kaz The Original
scammer


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 2476
Loc: Will Rent This Space
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: fimbulwinter]
      #1620691 - 01/27/05 03:13 PM

" Not value betting the river. this i bad, especially when in position against an opponent who is very unlikely to be drawing. this (VERY) often happens on J and T high boards where it's almost given that someone has hit with KT or AJ and the other guy hit his connector. Players always seem to dog this; remember that river value bets are the best money in holdem, because the loser is always drawing dead. Don't leave this money on the table.

2. Not allowing a probable drawer to bluff the river. very often when the flop comes Ace etc. people will call to the river to try and spike their flush. sometimes they have as little as $5 left by the river and only a busted draw to show for it. most players holding a strong ace at 25NL will shove it in and inevitably fold out the drawer; if you're out of position check it to him and let him try a desperation bluff; you want him to pay his whole stack for his draw, not just most of it.
"

Are these not contradictory?


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TheWorstPlayer
HoldEmKillah


Reged: 12/08/04
Posts: 19943
Loc: No longer losing money bluffin...
Re: My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage [Re: Kaz The Original]
      #1620755 - 01/27/05 03:22 PM

No, they aren't. The key is to put them on a hand. If the flop comes J-7-2 rainbow and you bet and get called, turn 8, bet, call, river 2, you should bet since they most likely have a jack (or maybe 7). If the flop is 8-9-2 with two hearts and you bet and they call. Turn is A bet call, river is 2, no draws got there, and the river could be a bit of a "scare card" so check it to them and induce a bluff. They are almost 100% on a draw.

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