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PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> High Stakes

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Daliman
Wong Messiah

Reged: 09/03/02
Posts: 10376
Loc: Wongs are two things, (at leas...

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: king_of_drafts]
#13124242 - 11/26/07 02:56 PM

Your image at the table seemed to be pretty poor at the time, with you getting caught bluffing medium/big a few times and generally racing around the table, so I hated the play. As it turned out, this guy was a bit of a postflop calling station too, (you may not have known yet), but cmon, king, you can't try to force over EVERY pot. Your hand plays SO much better RR'd pre than doing this at the deep tables, and your flop play looks exactly like what it is. methinks you were tilting more than a bit at the time.

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irockhoess
journeyman

Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 71
Loc: Don't Call it a comeback... Iv...

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: Matt Flynn]
#13124563 - 11/26/07 03:17 PM

id much rather bet turn bet river than do this. I cant think of any legitimate hand you would lead flop into 4 players then checkraise someone you have no history with on an AJ23 flush draw board. if you had like top and bottom on the flop, i really really really doubt this deep you ever c/r the turn. I think your bluff is much more hoping that he isnt strong enough to call rather than repping anything yourself and that can get you in a lot of trouble against someone you are unfamiliar with.

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cts
Worth 1k per minute.

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5208
Loc: VA

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: irockhoess]
#13124600 - 11/26/07 03:20 PM

kinda reminds me a hand i played against some euro the other day.

i open A8 hu 50/1 with 150bb stacks he calls. flop AK6r he cr pot. turn 2 he pots riv AK626 he shoves. wtfwtwfwtwfw how coudl anyone be dumb enough to bluff hereh327ghrf23f9h. i still call of course and he flips 54s. there is a reason no one bluffs here bc you get called every time

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irockhoess
journeyman

Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 71
Loc: Don't Call it a comeback... Iv...

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: cts]
#13124749 - 11/26/07 03:28 PM

i think you should have a segment in each thread called "coles corner" where you take the opening post, relate a hand of your own, draw a conclusion, and then we are all a little better off than we were yesterday. actually im copyrighting "coles corner" right now.

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SlowHabit
*

Reged: 04/23/06
Posts: 1509

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: irockhoess]
#13125558 - 11/26/07 04:17 PM

Quote:

i think you should have a segment in each thread called "coles corner" where you take the opening post, relate a hand of your own, draw a conclusion, and then we are all a little better off than we were yesterday. actually im copyrighting "coles corner" right now.

This is a great idea.

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innerpeace
enthusiast

Reged: 06/21/06
Posts: 215
Loc: In deep meditation

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: king_of_drafts]
#13126503 - 11/26/07 05:16 PM

i don't like this at all - the 3 is a terrible river to bluff with. if it worked, which i doubt since you posted it, then hats off to you. if it failed, then i hope you decided not to reload since your play is clearly tilt induced.

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innerpeace
enthusiast

Reged: 06/21/06
Posts: 215
Loc: In deep meditation

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: king_of_drafts]
#13126580 - 11/26/07 05:21 PM

Quote:

A lot of villains would snap call here if they had AK, but have their stomach turn if they had A8.

any thinking villain would know that calling with AK is the same as calling with A8 here. the exception would be when the players in question have an extensive history of playing with each other and a good enough understanding of each other's ranges to make thin value shoves.

if the BB is a "random", then your play is just indicative of a desperation bluff.

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king_of_drafts
Carpal \'Tunnel

Reged: 04/05/06
Posts: 2661
Loc: studying

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: Daliman]
#13127617 - 11/26/07 06:32 PM

Quote:

Your image at the table seemed to be pretty poor at the time, with you getting caught bluffing medium/big a few times and generally racing around the table, so I hated the play. As it turned out, this guy was a bit of a postflop calling station too, (you may not have known yet), but cmon, king, you can't try to force over EVERY pot. Your hand plays SO much better RR'd pre than doing this at the deep tables, and your flop play looks exactly like what it is. methinks you were tilting more than a bit at the time.

it was a bad play but it had little to do with tilt, and why wouldn't I generally try to run over a lineup this weak? samh was the only guy I knew and he's a nit.

it was more like, leading sucks because he's gonna call me with everything he called on the flop, check folding sucks, check calling really sucks, so wth, process of elimination I'll c/r. river was a panic shove and pretty inexcusable I admit

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Rosslex
newbie

Reged: 11/21/07
Posts: 35

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: king_of_drafts]
#13127944 - 11/26/07 06:54 PM

I agree with the sentiment that u should try and run over such weak players. It is the line u took tho that is the problem and it stems from errors preflop and flop imo. checkraising flop and leading turn looks much stronger and can even be followed up with a river shove if u are so inclined...it just doesnt look like a flush draw at any stage and makes it much more difficult for the villain to stack you with AT or such stationish hands that he can justify calling with on the current line.

One thing I have learnt is that if u are bluffing stations you should test them for their stack before the river. There is nothing they find easier than making river calls as they think "ah i am probably good here", a read they are harder pressed to make if u test them earlier in the hand. In such a scenario villain will likely flat call the flop check raise but fold to the turn pot bet lead and in he does call u can still draw out so have some draw and fold equity throughout.

If you had AJ or A3 how would u have played flop and turn presuming u don't rr it preflop?

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Ship Ship McGipp
Carpal \'Tunnel

Reged: 06/07/07
Posts: 3884
Loc: implied millionaire

Re: 15/30 deep bluff [Re: king_of_drafts]
#13128101 - 11/26/07 07:07 PM

Quote:

leading sucks because he's gonna call me with everything he called on the flop,

leave 1.5x in store for the third bullet then obv

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