Huk, I think the fact we have a flush is something thats put too much emphasis on. We could just as well have a pair here, granted he wouldn't slowplay preflop AA-JJ and play it this strong. I guess JJ is reasonble given PF, but does he really bet that this big, I somewhat doubt that. So, just treat our hand as AcTx or so and decide whether we still want to call, fact is, we have lots of stronger hands in our range at this point, thus I can see no real reason to call with the low flush here, unless his bluffing frequnecies is really fundamentally flawed, but basically I doubt this is a preferred bluffing card for him given a 4 is actually atleast a decent part of your range.
Also, furthermore, I think him having a 4 except 44 or 64 is pretty much never happening either.
Edit: We'll I guess we beat 23cc and 73cc and with it being PA, he can probably have those, but that is so marginally better than a pure bluffcatcher that I don't really think it makes enough of a difference. It would make a difference if we have very, very few hands better than bluffcatchers, but that is not the case.
Pretty easy to be on the wrong level here but yeah I don't think he'd put you on a flush very often, alot of people would raise the turn with a flush given the history of you bluff-raising a flush-completing turn. Probably wasn't a paired board in that hand but still, sounds like paired boards should be given less consideration than usual in this matchup. So I like your turn call alot.
On the river, even though its so tough for him to be valuebetting worse I think I'd go with the hand. Disagree with you MDMA, even though we might have stronger hands in our range I think this is still at the very high end. We have flush-blockers which make up a decent part of the range he's representing, and like you said beat a couple of hands he could be v-betting. Simplistic thinking but I would guess it's a close decision and that, barring any 'feel', letting this flush-blocker factor decide it is fine.
Quote: You didnt supply any reads of his betsizing, but his riverbetsize looks more like bluff/FH than a worse flush valuebetting, especially considering the sick price he would be getting if you shoved.
VV cool post. Simple: PA is not a spew monkey bluff tard. U have a bluff catcher by the river, so fold. Only thing he's vbetting is the full house or maybe better flush.
What hand range can u put him on given read? PF: Anything suited, 22+, 67o+, Not AA/KK/QQ (i've seen him just defend HU with jacks). Flop: AJ-AK,QKd,JTc+,45d, A(2-5)s, AXc,any 8+ out draw, 33-99, A4o,7c8x Turn:AXc,TT,x6,7c8x,44,QJc+ River:AcTx (as a bluff), x6, TT, 44, QJc+
Obv the math against this range makes it a call vs the logic of the hand. But I think u need to call here for metagame.
I think given the read given, raising turn would be a mistake. I would not mind at all calling the turn and calling like 99% of river cards vs someone who is so likely to vbet worse or bluff off chips.
you dont really say why.
since we has such a huge range here, we should be shoving some weak hands sometimes, which means we should also be able to show up with a flush here sometimes. a % of the time we should raise turn definitely.