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PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> Micro Stakes

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EMcModerator
The People's Mod


Reged: 02/24/05
Posts: 7663
Loc: LETS GO YANKEES!!
**uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:**
      #7758541 - 10/22/06 10:10 AM

NL is a complex game. We all know this. Sure, you get 2 cards, but the game is far more than just the 2 in your hand and the 5 on the board. For the next few weeks, uNL is going to have a concept of the week thread discussing a certain concept or theory in NL Hold'em.

In this thread you should post HH's showing situations where the concept was applied effectively as well as examples of poor usage of the concept. Also, please debate over various aspects of the concept and it's pro's and con's.

--------
Week 1,Floating:




What is Floating?
Generally speaking, floating is calling a bet in position on an earlier round of betting, typically the flop, with the intention of betting later should the conditions become available. Usually the goal of the float is to get a marginally better hand to fold or to extract value with a marginal hand.

Who to Float?
I have found via experience that the best players to float are TAGs that can lay down a hand when beat, and players that habitually continuation bet (Except me. Never float me.)

What hands to float with?

Theoretically, I guess one could float with any two cards. However, usually it is best to float in my opinion with mid to low pocket pairs, and mid pairs on the board, or decent, but not strong draws. Some call it value betting, but to me thats floating.

example hand:

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $95.25
UTG+1: $146.95
EMc: $99.50
Button: $34.45
SB: $69.25
BB: $51.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) EMc is CO with 6 6
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $3, EMc calls, 3 folds.

Flop: 8 8 2 ($7.5, 2 players)
UTG+1 bets $4, EMc calls.

Turn: 5 ($15.5, 2 players)
UTG+1 bets $7, EMc raises to $21, UTG+1 Folds

------

This is the first week so if anyone has any suggestions please PM them to me, NOT, I repeat NOT, post them. Lets keep this thread on target.


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Heine
addict


Reged: 09/28/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Midland
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: EMc]
      #7758652 - 10/22/06 10:35 AM

Quote:

Who to Float?
I have found via experience that the best players to float are TAGs that can lay down a hand when beat, and players that habitually continuation bet (Except me. Never float me, or Heine)




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the machine
something about dancing AZN baby


Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4975
Loc: leveling myself
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: EMc]
      #7758788 - 10/22/06 11:04 AM

very nice Edwardo

in the hand you posted though i feel that this is more for value. it is very possible we have the best hand here.

IMO i feel a "true" float is when we are calling someones bet regardless of what we have so we can make a stab at the pot on another street. It not a strategy i recomend to all people to use. I tend to use it if I think the player is really bad and i can move him off the pot with a simple bet when checked to. Or I also like to use it against players that i thnk are good. One of the tools I incorporate with my floating is the possible outs it looks like my hand has. 3rd level thinking, what do we think our opponent thinks we have.

When there are 2 spades on the flop and our opponent bets we call behind, turn is a third spade. he checks we bet out 2/3 pot. Villain folds. we had KJ.

i dont recomend doing this alot but this is what i consider a float. Also, calling with nothing and no draw because i see over 1000 hands villains stats are 33/22/3.5 with 100% C-Betting. I know he cant hit the flop everytime so i call behind to get a check from him on the turn and i can make a bet. Obviously this is player dependent/flop dependent and probably shouldnt be done that often

While most of this is not very uSNL friendly its just my opinion


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Jigsaws
rock and roll pancake


Reged: 06/06/06
Posts: 3768
Loc: pumalicious
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: the machine]
      #7758838 - 10/22/06 11:17 AM

I hate getting floated:

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $26.80
Hero: $55.50
Button: $128.70
SB: $46.75
BB: $18.65

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with J Q
UTG folds, Hero raises to $2, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: T 2 9 ($4.75, 2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, Button calls.

Turn: 4 ($11.75, 2 players)
Hero bets $8, Button raises to $18.5, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $10.5 returned to Button.

Button shows KdQh???

Results:
Final pot: $25.75


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redCashion
veteran


Reged: 02/19/06
Posts: 1286
Loc: Bill Fillmaff Protege
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: Jigsaws]
      #7758858 - 10/22/06 11:21 AM

This is a play I've only recently added to my arsenal. It is one of the most satisfying plays IMO because you are creating value essentially from nothing. Here was a float play made in a session this morning against a guy with stats like 25/13/4. The key IMO is finding guys who will only fire one bullet, since there is no way I call a turn bet here.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Hero ($55.85)
MP3 ($38.70)
CO ($26)
Button ($37.40)
SB ($15.75)
BB ($131.90)
UTG ($49.20)
UTG+1 ($98.30)
MP1 ($36.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, K. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $2.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, 5 folds.

Flop: ($6.25) 6, J, 8 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($14.25) 2 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $10.5, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: $24.75


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the machine
something about dancing AZN baby


Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4975
Loc: leveling myself
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: redCashion]
      #7758911 - 10/22/06 11:32 AM

Quote:

This is a play I've only recently added to my arsenal. It is one of the most satisfying plays IMO because you are creating value essentially from nothing. Here was a float play made in a session this morning against a guy with stats like 25/13/4. The key IMO is finding guys who will only fire one bullet, since there is no way I call a turn bet here.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Hero ($55.85)
MP3 ($38.70)
CO ($26)
Button ($37.40)
SB ($15.75)
BB ($131.90)
UTG ($49.20)
UTG+1 ($98.30)
MP1 ($36.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, K. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $2.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, 5 folds.

Flop: ($6.25) 6, J, 8 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($14.25) 2 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $10.5, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: $24.75






this is what i consider to be true floating


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Freelancer
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 2215
Loc: Embrace the variance !!
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: the machine]
      #7758955 - 10/22/06 11:45 AM

I'm going to follow this thread closely, I've tried to float several times so far and I'm -EV overal. I have a feeling I am targeting to many weak/bad players, it works best against basic ABC TAGS. I also usually fold to a turn bet if I am planning to float.

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BombayBadboy
veteran


Reged: 10/19/06
Posts: 1356
Loc: CRAI me a river...
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: Freelancer]
      #7758979 - 10/22/06 11:49 AM

Hah, floaters are -EV for me. I get really annoyed when people always call flop bets. It sets me off, really. I need to work on that. This is something I'm going to pay attention to next week. I'll try to float some TAGs and punish the floaters (c/r all in baby! )

On a sidenote, I really really like this idea of discussing a concept a week. Thumbs up.


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redCashion
veteran


Reged: 02/19/06
Posts: 1286
Loc: Bill Fillmaff Protege
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: BombayBadboy]
      #7759016 - 10/22/06 11:57 AM

The key to finding people to float against for me has been looking at their preflop raising percentages. If it's over 10 they are raising with some very sub-premium hands and are relying on cbetting to make it profitable. Also, the combination of high preflop raising, and low flop aggression is a good one because they are less likely to fire back at you with air if they check the turn.

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tubasteve
Space rented by Jurollo


Reged: 10/04/05
Posts: 7271
Loc: 3-bet
Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 1, Floating:** [Re: BombayBadboy]
      #7759017 - 10/22/06 11:57 AM

I wouldn't recommend floating a whole lot at NL50 and lower...it's a fine tool at times but I'm afraid people are gonna read this thread and start calling flop bets with ATC in position. Don't get carried away.

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