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PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> Micro Stakes

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | >> (show all)
Joost1982
newbie


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 35
Loc: the gutter
Why 3bet?
      #12341131 - 10/03/07 08:27 AM

Situation:
25NL 6max, 6 players, all 100BB stack. Everyone folds to the button (with TAG stats, preflop raise 12%) who openraises for 4BB. You are in the SB with AJo. Now what?

Some people say you should fold here because AJo isn't that good of a hand, especially versus a TAG and in this position. However, it is an open button raise, which can mean that villain's range is much wider. So maybe you CAN play the hand. What is better then; call or 3bet?

A few months ago I always called, but lost a lot of money, because I had to fold the hand most of the times. The last few weeks I'm experimenting with 3betting and this makes my plays so much easier. A cbet on almost any flop gives me the pot.

But: what is the correct reasoning behind 3betting?

(1) you gain momentum? With a cbet you get the pot.
(2) you can find out if villain has AA/KK? (he 4bets).
(3) ...?

If villain has a good hand like AQ+ and you hit your ace what is less costly; a preflop call or a 3bet?

If villain has a better hand like TT-AA, what is now more EV, a preflop call or a 3bet?

A lot of questions, but they all relate to the same thing: why 3bet? (here)


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corsakh
Carpal /'Tunnel


Reged: 08/13/06
Posts: 3991
Loc: Kitty said what?
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: Joost1982]
      #12341143 - 10/03/07 08:29 AM

You need to know his steal percentage. If its 12 or close, you should not. If its 25 or more - easy 3bet.

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yapee
member


Reged: 08/13/06
Posts: 101
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: corsakh]
      #12341262 - 10/03/07 08:50 AM

Quote:

You need to know his steal percentage. If its 12 or close, you should not. If its 25 or more - easy 3bet.




I agree. I have recently added the steal attempt% to my HUD and use it to decide whether to 3bet or fold or call or anything in those situations.


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PocketBeats
member


Reged: 12/28/06
Posts: 117
Loc: LAGtard
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: yapee]
      #12341298 - 10/03/07 08:59 AM

Generally at these stakes a 3 bet will make your post flop decisions a lot easier. People play straight forward and this will let you know where you are in the hand.

I would not try this, however, with AJo unless you have seen him steal from the button before.

3 betting this hand will save you money. If an ace flops and he keeps up his aggression you can fold knowing he probably has AQ-AK.

The other good thing about your aggression is that he may fold a better hand. He could fold 88-JJ here as well as AQ. Your image also affects what he folds here.

Edited by PocketBeats (10/03/07 09:00 AM)


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hennnerz
veteran


Reged: 12/02/06
Posts: 1208
Loc: UWE, Bristol
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: PocketBeats]
      #12341504 - 10/03/07 09:29 AM

His range for raising on the button is probs wide, if so then AJo is ahead of his range here, so 3bet. Assuming steal % is not sick low, just go for it but proceed carefully on later streets.

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Joost1982
newbie


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 35
Loc: the gutter
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: PocketBeats]
      #12341535 - 10/03/07 09:33 AM

@ corsakh and yapee: Ok, I agree that 3betting is a good idea when you think villain is stealing, but then the hand is almost irrelevant. You can do it with worse hands. I think the beginning of my post is a bit confusing. My question was not really about the hand, but more a "general" question about 3betting. What is the reason people should 3bet...

@PocketBeats: thanks!


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whyzze
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/24/06
Posts: 1661
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: Joost1982]
      #12341546 - 10/03/07 09:35 AM

to piss off the nits/regs and get more value out of my AA/KK/QQ/AK

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hennnerz
veteran


Reged: 12/02/06
Posts: 1208
Loc: UWE, Bristol
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: Joost1982]
      #12341552 - 10/03/07 09:36 AM

Look at the sticky then the part on 3betting. There was an interesting Concept of the Week done a while back on this.

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thac
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 04/30/06
Posts: 9941
Loc: Go Buckeyes imo
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: whyzze]
      #12341567 - 10/03/07 09:38 AM

I really don't like 3-betting with AJo. Your hand is good against his button opening range, yeah; but your hand is also [censored] against his 3-bet calling range. So you're turning your hand into a bluff, and bloating the pot if you do get called. I'd prefer to call preflop and c/r a lot of flops.

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scallop
old hand


Reged: 10/18/06
Posts: 861
Loc: YouTube: Vader Sessions.
Re: Why 3bet? [Re: thac]
      #12341712 - 10/03/07 09:53 AM

Quote:

I really don't like 3-betting with AJo. Your hand is good against his button opening range, yeah; but your hand is also [censored] against his 3-bet calling range. So you're turning your hand into a bluff, and bloating the pot if you do get called. I'd prefer to call preflop and c/r a lot of flops.




Honestly, I think btn's 3-bet calling range isnt so narrow as to put AJ nearer the bottomw end of the spectrum if the btn is regularly trying to steal blinds (i.e not less than 23 or something.)

I think I mostly raise because I mostly assume that btn raisers are FOS, and also for value, and also because we have the advantage of winning the pot with a c-bet on the flop mostly.

Even if his calling range is narrow there must be an obvious margin between his calling range and the range which he 4-bets with. Most vilians at this level do not smooth call with AA/KK/AK and they lump 55/KJ/AQ into the same bundle, which is irrel anyways since they mostly dont like their hand on the flop and you win with a c-bet.

People hardly ever float down at 50nl.


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