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PL/NL Texas Hold'em >> Micro Stakes

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ssdex
old hand


Reged: 11/07/06
Posts: 923
Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys
      #11239057 - 07/17/07 12:23 PM

I browse through posts really often in the brew and in general where I see people who have 10 buyin downswings and are ready to quit poker, or are just on life-tilt in general. It is really hard when you first begin poker to understand the concept of "variance". I have written before on my uber nitty strategy of bankroll managment. I am pretty sure there is no other 50nl reg that plays as overrolled as I do, even if I moved up to 100nl, I would still probably be the most overrolled reg there. The reason I prefer to play lower and overrolled has a lot to do with the emotional side of poker. Running bad at higher limits, the downswings emotionally effect me too much and prone me to tilt, much more so than I already am.

The point of this post is to understand that you should be emotionally "numb" to the limits you choose to play. If you don't have a lifestyle that relies on poker for $ then I think you can emotionally move up much faster. I know at the beginning of my poker career when I was in school I could care less about the money at first. But it is hard to deal with when you think you have/take ownership to $15k sitting in a poker account and then 3 weeks later there isn't anything there because your busto. I'm to lazy to link ama's pooh bah post, but if you havent read it, you should. He calls it "connecting", I just say you should be numb.

So, here is my 2 cents. 10 buyin downswing happen people. I have a lot of "unecessary variance" in my game. So I will always have multiple 5 buyin downswings per month and a really good month won't include a 10 downer. A really bad month will probably have a downswing much larger than this. Over 100k hands you can expext 2 or 3 of these type of downswings. But if you are playing where you belong (this in my opinion has nothing to do with your bankroll), then you will be emotionally numb to these swings. You will understand your moves are +EV and you have been playing good just running poorly. You will shove b/c you know you have the right equity, and not be scared to pull the trigger just because you've missed 9 of your last 10 combo draws. It won't matter if your on a 15 buyin downswing or you've played 20k hands at breakeven.

Just because you have 30-40 buyins for a level doesn't mean you should feel obligated to play it. You should play at levels you can emotionally beat, not just beat +EV. Taking shots is obv ok, but take small shots, not big ones. Lots of players can beat levels way above the one they are playing, but they are emotionally -ev at those levels because they can't become "numb" to the instant results. Being emotionally -ev can often overcome even the greatest edge in cards for the shorterm. Often bad enough to bring us close to busto and crush our confidence in poker. Tilt during this time becomes way worse then normal, and they find themselves in the utter state of busto. Most of us have been there. I play nl100 nl200 and even nl400 from time to time, when I am having good months or I feel like I am really keen on my game, but when I find myself venting over beats and not being "numb" towards the results I come back to my haven which is nl50 at stars.

There have been times during my poker career during my worse downers where I considered the fact that I had just run good over hundreds of thousands of hands and was not indeed a winner, times where I wasn't sure if I could beat nl10, much less nl100. If you are playing at levels where you are "numb", I think it is possible to avoid these moments in your poker career. Learn from others mistakes!

This post was inspired by my last 100k hands which were my worse ever at nl50. I ran 4bb/100, which is kind of cancerous and had several very bad downswings (1 20 and 1 25 buyin downsing). Ive also been running at 2bb/100 at nl100 over the last 20k, which is also a poor result, but after review, I feel better about it. The next 100k will go better, maybe like the 400k before that. I am in no hurry to move up permanently, and i'm ok with that now. I'll move up when i'm "numb" at those levels again, i'm just not there yet. Happy reading and good luck at the tables, hope this post is helpful..... great pooh bah post ama.... in his words... connect!

Edited by ssdex (07/17/07 12:31 PM)


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Warteen
Brah?


Reged: 12/10/06
Posts: 1211
Loc: Warteen For Mod '08
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: ssdex]
      #11239129 - 07/17/07 12:29 PM

Tl;dr.

Robusto = rich, not poor. The opposite of busto.

The "u" in uNL represents the Greek letter used as the symbol for "micro", not actually the letter U. So it's incorrect to capitalize it.


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ssdex
old hand


Reged: 11/07/06
Posts: 923
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: Warteen]
      #11239170 - 07/17/07 12:31 PM

ty, just got off a 20 hour poker binge and didn't read over before post!

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Sweir
addict


Reged: 09/09/06
Posts: 634
Loc: Brighton, UK
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: Warteen]
      #11239180 - 07/17/07 12:32 PM

ssdex, nice post. I know what you mean about being numb, I recently moved up and had a downswing, moved back down for a couple of days and then back up again and now feel I am numb to that limit.

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relativity_x
old hand


Reged: 09/19/06
Posts: 947
Loc: 3 bet min-raising
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: ssdex]
      #11239244 - 07/17/07 12:37 PM

A few thoughts.

Quote:

The point of this post is to understand that you should be emotionally "numb" to the limits you choose to play.




I disagree with this. If you start playing numb (I read don't care), you will start playing haphazardly. I think what you're looking for is don't be afraid to lose money (play within your bankroll).

FWIW, sometimes people play better when they're scared to lose.

Quote:

10 buyin downswing happen people




If you have huge buy-in swings every month, I'd start wondering if it's more than variance especially a 20/25+ BI swing. As sbrugby says:

Quote:


Your results are the direct result of your performace. Don't point any fingers when things aren't going well since there is no one to blame but yourself.





I'm not sure what you mean by numb, but I don't think it's a good idea to play numb to the limits you play.


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jk1986
old hand


Reged: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: London
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: Warteen]
      #11239261 - 07/17/07 12:38 PM

Quote:


The "u" in uNL represents the Greek letter used as the symbol for "micro", not actually the letter U. So it's incorrect to capitalize it.



NIT


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Warteen
Brah?


Reged: 12/10/06
Posts: 1211
Loc: Warteen For Mod '08
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: jk1986]
      #11239287 - 07/17/07 12:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:


The "u" in uNL represents the Greek letter used as the symbol for "micro", not actually the letter U. So it's incorrect to capitalize it.



NIT




The dimensions of the "box" in your avatar look a bit questionable - if anything, it looks like more of a luck trapezoid. Maybe that's what you were going for.


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relativity_x
old hand


Reged: 09/19/06
Posts: 947
Loc: 3 bet min-raising
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: Warteen]
      #11239323 - 07/17/07 12:42 PM

Quote:


The dimensions of the "box" in your avatar look a bit questionable - if anything, it looks like more of a luck trapezoid. Maybe that's what you were going for.




boxes can be any dimension. I believe you're thinking of a square.


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ssdex
old hand


Reged: 11/07/06
Posts: 923
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: relativity_x]
      #11239331 - 07/17/07 12:43 PM

Quote:

A few thoughts.

Quote:

The point of this post is to understand that you should be emotionally "numb" to the limits you choose to play.




I disagree with this. If you start playing numb (I read don't care), you will start playing haphazardly. I think what you're looking for is don't be afraid to lose money.

FWIW, sometimes people play better when they're scared to lose.

Quote:

10 buyin downswing happen people




If you have huge buy-in swings every month, I'd start wondering if it's more than variance especially a 20/25+ BI swing. As sbrugby says:

Quote:


Your results are the direct result of your performace. Don't point any fingers when things aren't going well since there is no one to blame but yourself.





I'm not sure what you mean by numb, but I don't think it's a good idea to play numb to the limits you play.




I play tons and tons of hands every month

I have more variance when I 9 table b/c my tilt becomes exponentially worse, which kills my winrates, but after I get to supernova I think I will cutdown to 6 tables.

being "numb" has nothing to do with not caring and spewing money---- thats not the concept---- being numb has to do with retaining confidence even after very bad runs of luck

im not saying you should not review your play if your in a bad downswing, but if that downswing has less to do with tilt and more to do with running bad, then you should keep plugging away.

imo you can't play a level to your highest potential if you are scared of losing the $, all this does is tigten you up and make you less likely to play your best game. If you play better when your scared then you should be playing a tighter game then you normally play b/c you spew too much playing laggier styles.


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corsakh
Carpal /'Tunnel


Reged: 08/13/06
Posts: 3991
Loc: Kitty said what?
Re: Thoughts on Running bad for UNL guys [Re: ssdex]
      #11239350 - 07/17/07 12:44 PM

Gentlemen, your box discussion is fascinating. Whats your opinion on lunch boxes?

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