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General Poker Discussion >> News, Views, and Gossip

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stigmata
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Reged: 08/12/04
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The Ljubljana Conspiracy.
      #3896631 - 11/09/05 06:47 AM

The whole DERB thing is now utterly out of control, so I apologise for making matters worse. See the recent threads in Mid/High Limit for background.

1) DERB comes from Ljubljana, Slovenia. He has a somewhat questionable style of play, yet is a suprisingly big winner at the high stakes limit partypoker games.

2) Andrew Prock, who started the recent "DERB" thread is part of "Project Mayhem", based in, you guessed it, Ljubljana. However, when this was pointed out to him in the DERB thread, he stopped responding.

3) Other Project Mayhem members include Abdul Jalib and Izmet Fekali.

4) The "Fekali family" are from Ljubljana, and Abdul Jalib apparantly moved there.

4) Angelina Fekali, one of the earliest registered members on 2+2, suddenly appears and makes only her 4th ever post in one of the DERB threads, in response to a cryptic David Sklansky "Joke". The tone of the post would suggest some connection between Angelina Fekali and David Sklansky.


There are numerous unanswered questions concerning the Ljubljana connection. Is DERB part of "Project Mayhem" and linked to the Fekali's and Abdul Jalib? Are the Fekali's a real family or just the invention of a fertile imagination? I think Abdul Jalib may just be an alias itself? Who is Tonda? Tonda Hall? What does Andy Prock and David Sklansky know that the rest of us don't?


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Kneel B4 Zod
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896649 - 11/09/05 06:58 AM

I heard that DERB only plays hand that algabraically can form 4815162342

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jrbick
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896653 - 11/09/05 07:00 AM

FWIW, this is getting pretty sick. Creepy-kind-of-sick.

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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Kneel B4 Zod]
      #3896658 - 11/09/05 07:02 AM

Quote:

I heard that DERB only plays hand that algabraically can form 4815162342




Yes, Yes, and that number is the exact dimensions of the Great Pyramid of Khufu!!!


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Equal
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/25/04
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896662 - 11/09/05 07:02 AM

Ooooh I got the third reply to what is sure to be a 1,000 post thread.

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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896683 - 11/09/05 07:14 AM

Now that I have everyones attention, I can ask the question that has really been burning on people lips since this whole debacle started:

How the hell do you pronounce Ljubljana?


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J_V
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896684 - 11/09/05 07:14 AM

Don't worry - the island will tell us what to do.


P.S. Is anything really funnier than a cryptic Sklansky joke?

Edited by J_V (11/09/05 07:16 AM)


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BarronVangorToth
Flop EV Calculator


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896702 - 11/09/05 07:25 AM

I'm glad you started this thread. I've been thinking for the last week or so that this is all some puzzle that should be ... clearer.

Illumination ahoy.


Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com


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TylerD
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896720 - 11/09/05 07:37 AM

Quote:

Now that I have everyones attention, I can ask the question that has really been burning on people lips since this whole debacle started:

How the hell do you pronounce Ljubljana?




lyOO'blyänä


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TStoneMBD
Man of Leisure


Reged: 07/01/04
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896737 - 11/09/05 07:45 AM

wow there is alot of information that i wasnt aware of that you mentioned in this thread. andy prock created pokerstove and has said in other threads that there is alot of mathematical information that he knows about but wont share with the public. hes indicated that he has some really sickening software out there that everyone would love to have but he wont share it.

i really doubt andy prock is from slovenia as andy prock is clearly an american name. slovenia probably just hired him or purchased software from him and he probably helps develop their research online.

it really just sounds like they are developing poker bots which is indicated from the old rpg post about slovenia developing bots that everyone thought was a joke.

i did a search on google for tonda and it appears to just be a name. it is also a city in tuscany. i tried to do a slovenian translation of tonda to english and it it just came up with tonda.


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Snoogins47
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896846 - 11/09/05 08:22 AM

I hear if you record the text of 'Theory of Poker' and play it backwards, it says "This is all for you, sweet Satan." Over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: TStoneMBD]
      #3896907 - 11/09/05 08:40 AM

Quote:

wow there is alot of information that i wasnt aware of that you mentioned in this thread. andy prock created pokerstove and has said in other threads that there is alot of mathematical information that he knows about but wont share with the public. hes indicated that he has some really sickening software out there that everyone would love to have but he wont share it.

i really doubt andy prock is from slovenia as andy prock is clearly an american name. slovenia probably just hired him or purchased software from him and he probably helps develop their research online.

it really just sounds like they are developing poker bots which is indicated from the old rpg post about slovenia developing bots that everyone thought was a joke.

i did a search on google for tonda and it appears to just be a name. it is also a city in tuscany. i tried to do a slovenian translation of tonda to english and it it just came up with tonda.




Nice Work TStone.

I agree A. P. is probably american. It's only that he is listed as being part of "Project Mayhem", which is based in Ljubljana. Of course, the project mayhem website appears to be purposefully shadowy and obtuse.

The old RGP post about Slovenian pokerbots was made on April 1st.

I searched Google for the terms Tonda & poker. There is a poker player called Tonda Hall mentioned in passing in a tournament log. However, s/he does not appear in the hendon mob database.


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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3896910 - 11/09/05 08:40 AM

DISCLAIMER: Don't worry I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat (yet ). However, everyone does love a good conspiricy. I am also of the belief that there are people lurking in the background who know more than they are letting on. Most of this information is probably more of a "gossipy" nature, rather than "OMFG leet poker botz gonna pizown our asses". Either way, I can understand their reasons for wanting to retain privacy, and I apologise for prying. However, the whole issue has become rather public and the presence of cryptic posts and obtuse websites seems somewhat designed to provoke curiosity & fuel gossip.

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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897014 - 11/09/05 09:06 AM

Tonda is Abdul's Wife, apparantly.

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Spicymoose
Pooh-Bah


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897050 - 11/09/05 09:16 AM

Here is some interesting information from Angelina herself.

Quote:


Yes, I am Izmet
Posted by: Angelina (angelina@fekali.com)


I guess it is time to set some records straight and maybe I have waited too long to do it, so here it is:

My name is Angelina Fekali and I have no brother. "Izmet Fekali", the frequent poster here and on rgp, does not exist. I made him up. As some of you have caught on to this little ruse and over the months the truth was harder and harder to hide. As I said, it is time to give up and take a stand for myself. There's no need for me to wear men's clothes anymore, I sincerely hope so.

A lot of you will probably not understand, but where I come from, women are not treated with equal respect. Since respect was all too often denied to me simply because of my gender, I decided to make my life easier on poker forums and become a guy. I was eager to learn and I very much wanted to be taken seriously. I tried very hard to become "one of the boys", hiding my true feelings and intentions behind "Izmet's" macho sheep humor.

My fears were not unfounded, it turned out, as I started to play at Paradise under my real name, no way a girl from Slovenia could play good poker, it's a man's game, I am listening to these kind of remarks for a year now. Well guys, you better believe it. Women can and do play good poker. I am sure this fact will hit hard some of you, but you need to face it. Women can play too.

I met David Sklansky In Las Vegas in 1999 when my dear father took a vacation there (looking for a game of 5card potlimit stud). Unbeknownst to my father, I fell in love with David, many of you have no idea how charming this man can be on top of his intelligence. He was relentless in his wooing, I must laugh every time when I think of our first few hours alone when he pulled out a deck of cards and said, "let's play for fun, do you know poker?". I didn't and he offered to teach. Little did I know that I saved about $400 (his standard tutoring hourly rate) that hour, little did I know that he tried very, very hard to lose to me in that headsup game, little did I know that I am one of the few that can brag "I beat Sklansky in poker". Little did I know that life will never be the same.

I was hooked. Both on Sklansky and hold'em. He sensed my enthusiasm and offered to teach me more. To cut a long story short, we had great time and I had to go back home. Six months later, after lots of research, sims and thinking about the game, I was eager to play him again, to prove I was a student, a friend and, most importantly, to prove I was smart enough for him. I was in Vegas again, desperately in love, only to find another woman sitting besides David at the poker table. It broke my heart and it broke our relationship.

That is when I met Abdul Jalib M'hall. I am sorry not to go into detail here, let me just say that I met his wife too, she is a very nice person and I am sorry to bring some pain into her life. Out of respect for her I shall not do our dirty laundry in public.

Needless to say, I befriended Abdul because of his refusal to accept Sklansky as an authority on hold'em, he was a renegade and a free mind, he appealed to me a lot. He provided me with tools to fight Sklansky on his own turf, poker, without being an underdog to Sklansky's strategies. I can't thank Abdul enough for this, if you are reading this, Jabba dear, you will always have a special place in my heart reserved. Thank you.

I don't travel much to Vegas anymore. My life is settled now, men can't hurt me anymore, any frustrations I may have left I take out on unsuspecting $20-40 Paradise players. If you are there and see me 4-bet you on the turn with a shaky hand, it is probably because I imagine I'm playing against David.

I just can't pull him out of my mind, it seems.

I love you all.

Angelina Fekali





This comes from the thread here:
http://www.twoplustwo.com/digests/genpokarch_apr01_msg.html

Unfortunately...
Quote:

Posted on: Sunday, 1 April 2001, at 8:48 a.m.




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stigmata
Carpal \'Tunnel


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3897075 - 11/09/05 09:23 AM

To be honest, it all feels like one big april fools joke....

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BarronVangorToth
Flop EV Calculator


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3897087 - 11/09/05 09:25 AM

This is getting ... weird.

There are a number of scenarios as to how this all is incorporated into reality, none of them not creepy.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com


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Spicymoose
Pooh-Bah


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897094 - 11/09/05 09:26 AM

http://www.slopoker-forum.com/ seems to have a lot of people from there, but I can't understand anything it says...

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turnipmonster
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897164 - 11/09/05 09:41 AM

this is like the 2+2 version of the rgp "pattern mapper" thread!

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TheWorstPlayer
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897173 - 11/09/05 09:42 AM

Quote:

To be honest, it all feels like one big april fools joke....



Yes. Based on tone, I would be EXTREMELY surprised if that post were anything other than an April Fool's joke.


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jrbick
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: BarronVangorToth]
      #3897276 - 11/09/05 09:58 AM

Quote:

This is getting ... weird.

There are a number of scenarios as to how this all is incorporated into reality, none of them not creepy.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com




Glad I'm not alone in this. The larger spectrum (one that is plausible, well, several that are plausible) is at least disturbing.

This is beginning to play out like a mix between Kate Chopin's "The Awakening" and Anton Checkhov's "The Lady with the Pet Dog." But that's probably due in large part to Angelene's archived post.


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MattSuspect
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897305 - 11/09/05 10:04 AM

Do you guys actually believe ANY Of this?
Seriously.

Josif, son of Mekan Fekali, 5-card stud prodigy at the age of four, dropped out of the Municipal High School of Tirana (Albania) at the age of five, persuing his lifelong dream, a career of a sheep herder. Herded sheep as a freelancer until he immigrated from Albania to Ljubljana, Slovenia in 1960, where he retired twenty years later, serving in position of Special Slovene Herding Advisor.

It's like a bad Austin Powers sequel.


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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: MattSuspect]
      #3897354 - 11/09/05 10:11 AM

Quote:

Do you guys actually believe ANY Of this?
Seriously.





Hence in my original post, I asked "Are the Fekali's a real family or just the invention of a fertile imagination?". I agree that the Fekali website sounds like a bad movie, but this is only one question out of several, and it does not by association make everything unbelievable.

However, I wouldn't be entirely suprised that Angelina's April Fools was part of a larger prank, and that Angelina = Izmet = Abdul.

Edited by stigmata (11/09/05 10:14 AM)


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DougShrapnel
Diamond


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897364 - 11/09/05 10:12 AM

Vince Lepore is also in on this.

Ljubljana Cheaters Caught. Anyone we know?
Posted by: Bob
Posted on: Friday, 19 January 2001, at 4:44 p.m.

SLOVENIA Casino Cheat Goes Free Melanie Banks, Gambling Newsletter Slovenian police caught an Italian citizen January 16 using a miniature video camera and a mobile phone to cheat in a game of poker in a casino in Ljubljana, which borders with Italy.

"We had a couple of attempts to cheat in casinos before, but none of them was as technologically advanced as this one," said Ivan Maras, police spokesman. The man put a bag with a mini video camera behind the dealer so that images of the cards could be transmitted to a hotel room nearby where an accomplice advised the gambler by mobile phone via a tiny receiver mounted in his ear. The cheat was detained for six hours but the police had to free him when they couldn't prove how much money had been won by the scam. The accomplice also went free.




Re: Ljubljana Cheaters Caught. Anyone we know?
Posted by: Izmet Fekali (izmet@fekali.com)
Posted on: Friday, 19 January 2001, at 6:20 p.m.

Do you have anybody in mind?

---
Izmet Fekali
Burek Experts Ltd.
Catering the World Since 1389!
Albania, Slovenia, Europe
http://www.fekali.com




Re: Ljubljana Cheaters Caught. Anyone we know?
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 23 January 2001, at 11:15 p.m.

Right!

Vince


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ChuckSty
stranger


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: jrbick]
      #3897392 - 11/09/05 10:18 AM

A friend of mine on another forum was telling me about DERB a few days ago, so i figured i'd check it out. Instead somehow i managed to stumble upon the poker illumaniti. This is quite suspenseful, and completely insane, and yet i am quite intrigued and want to hear more. In fact at this point i hardly even care about the poker relevance. I am hooked... like sands in an hourglass

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PTjvs
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3897449 - 11/09/05 10:27 AM

It's fairly apparent that Angelina is the very first gimmick account on 2+2, opened by none other than DS himself. NH Mr. DS.

jvs


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NoSoup4U
enthusiast


Reged: 04/06/04
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897748 - 11/09/05 11:14 AM

Quote:

Tonda is Abdul's Wife, apparantly.




This is so much fun to watch that I hate to contribute, but Tonda is beyond doubt Abdul's wife. Old school RGPers will remember her at one of the BARGE events.

For instance:

This thread or that thread.

Please continue with the entertainment.


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stigmata
Carpal \'Tunnel


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: NoSoup4U]
      #3897824 - 11/09/05 11:23 AM

Yep, I'm gonna spill out some more old gossip, from Tonda's mouth:

Quote:

He moved to Slovenia in the summer of 03. He had visited there several months before (when we were still married) and I gather, deduced he liked his rich buddy’s (Ismet Fekali) lifestyle better than he liked married life. We kept in touch up until about 3-4 months ago when he seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth. I’ve been worried that something has happened to him, but there is little I can do about it.

The last time I talked to him, he was still playing poker for a living both online and playing in some European tournaments. At present, your guess is as good as mine.




This adds a new intepretation to Angelina's apology in the April Fools letter. If she and Izmet are in fact the same person, then he (and his alter-ego sister) are in some ways responsible for the marriage break up of Abdul and Tonda.

Similarly, the rest of the April fool letter could be re-intepreted along these grounds. The "seduction" by Sklansky poker theory and then later by Abdul Jalib's other way (the way of the DERB?).

I'm reading far too much into this, but it's fun!

Edited by stigmata (11/09/05 11:42 AM)


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Nut4Dawgs
Grandfather


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3897999 - 11/09/05 11:49 AM

Quote:

To be honest, it all feels like one big april fools joke....





I have absolutely no idea WTF is going on here. Out of curiosity I opened the thread and am totally confused/amused.

I did happen to notice that Angelina's initials, A.F., could be a reference to April Fool. Farfetched observation? Stoopid observation? Example of how the mind of DS might work?


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Schneids
3 BB/100


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Nut4Dawgs]
      #3898044 - 11/09/05 11:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

To be honest, it all feels like one big april fools joke....





I have absolutely no idea WTF is going on here. Out of curiosity I opened the thread and am totally confused/amused.

I did happen to notice that Angelina's initials, A.F., could be a reference to April Fool. Farfetched observation? Stoopid observation? Example of how the mind of DS might work?




Except there really is a regular player on Paradise poker who is named Angelina.


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MaxPower
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3898083 - 11/09/05 12:00 PM

I think it is common knowledge that Abdul Jalib is an alias. I think his real name is Michael Hall.

My assumption has always been that Angelina is an alias for Izmet Fekali.

I do think it is interesting that Louie Landale is part of Project Mayhem. He used to post here a lot, but I haven't seen him here in a while.


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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: PTjvs]
      #3898115 - 11/09/05 12:04 PM

Quote:

It's fairly apparent that Angelina is the very first gimmick account on 2+2, opened by none other than DS himself. NH Mr. DS.

jvs




I don't know. http://www.fekali.com:3455/26/21

I could see David hring a model, but the whole multiple monitor set-up and Paradise Poker is definately NOT David's work.

It is becoming clear how the Ljubljana connection fits togethor. David Sklansky's joke now makes sense.

Certainly it would appear that "Addul Jalib" moved to Ljubljana to be with his friend Izmet, and that this preceeded his divorce to Tonga. Angelina's existence and status in this is still obscure.

However, the main issue is still untouched. How does DERB fit in with all this? The main hypothesis is that he is, in fact, Abdul Jalib or a creation of Abdul, with his, in the words of Angelina:

"refusal to accept Sklansky as an authority on hold'em ... renegade and a free mind".


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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Schneids]
      #3898196 - 11/09/05 12:12 PM

Quote:

Except there really is a regular player on Paradise poker who is named Angelina.




Is she just playing NL? Care to eloborate on strategy?

***
I need to calm down about this, I just knocked myself into Pooh-Bah status, what with all the frenzied excitement

Edited by stigmata (11/09/05 12:14 PM)


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ManageJames
newbie


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3898204 - 11/09/05 12:12 PM

Two things:

-A person or group of people has put a lot of energy into making stuff about Izmet Fekali and related individuals. It's pretty funny and people have fallen for all kinds of stuff.
-There is still a person, using a seemingly suicidal strategy, destroying the high-limit games.


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Snoogins47
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: ManageJames]
      #3898369 - 11/09/05 12:34 PM

Whatever is actually going on, this is one of the cooler things I've ever experienced, and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

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Dane S
Danenania of yore


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3898518 - 11/09/05 12:55 PM

This has all the makings of a DaVinci code style bestseller.

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wuwei
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3898583 - 11/09/05 01:04 PM

My theory is that the whole incident of Abdul getting kicked off the 2+2 boards was staged, and it was just the beginning of a nefarious plot to take over both the poker world and an eastern European country. As S & M realized Abdul was getting closer and closer to the "truth," they realized they only had two options: have some Vegas heavies deal with him, or take him into the fold.

David, Mason, and Abdul have been working together for years to develop a dominant poker strategy superior to the strategy described in their books. Verily, a strategy that in fact preys on both the robotic players who utiize the theory outlined in 2+2's catalog of poker knowledge and the fish who swim in these shark filled waters.

Derb is the result of those efforts. Fear the Derb.


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Victor
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3898734 - 11/09/05 01:22 PM

Quote:

4) Angelina Fekali, one of the earliest registered members on 2+2, suddenly appears and makes only her 4th ever post in one of the DERB threads, in response to a cryptic David Sklansky "Joke". The tone of the post would suggest some connection between Angelina Fekali and David Sklansky.




angelina posted quite often before the split, fwiw.


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Nut4Dawgs
Grandfather


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Dane S]
      #3898774 - 11/09/05 01:27 PM

Quote:

This has all the makings of a DaVinci code style bestseller.





Or a TV series.


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mmcd
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3898784 - 11/09/05 01:28 PM

Quote:

The whole DERB thing is now utterly out of control, so I apologise for making matters worse. See the recent threads in Mid/High Limit for background.

1) DERB comes from Ljubljana, Slovenia. He has a somewhat questionable style of play, yet is a suprisingly big winner at the high stakes limit partypoker games.

2) Andrew Prock, who started the recent "DERB" thread is part of "Project Mayhem", based in, you guessed it, Ljubljana. However, when this was pointed out to him in the DERB thread, he stopped responding.

3) Other Project Mayhem members include Abdul Jalib and Izmet Fekali.

4) The "Fekali family" are from Ljubljana, and Abdul Jalib apparantly moved there.

4) Angelina Fekali, one of the earliest registered members on 2+2, suddenly appears and makes only her 4th ever post in one of the DERB threads, in response to a cryptic David Sklansky "Joke". The tone of the post would suggest some connection between Angelina Fekali and David Sklansky.


There are numerous unanswered questions concerning the Ljubljana connection. Is DERB part of "Project Mayhem" and linked to the Fekali's and Abdul Jalib? Are the Fekali's a real family or just the invention of a fertile imagination? I think Abdul Jalib may just be an alias itself? Who is Tonda? Tonda Hall? What does Andy Prock and David Sklansky know that the rest of us don't?





I can't believe you left out the whole communism angle of the conspiracy.


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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: wuwei]
      #3898824 - 11/09/05 01:31 PM

Quote:

the whole incident of Abdul getting kicked off the 2+2 boards




This needs to be eloborated. The plot thickens....


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offTopic
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3898915 - 11/09/05 01:41 PM

For your entertainment...

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Chris.
old hand


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3899064 - 11/09/05 01:56 PM

Lots of stuff linked to the Angelina web site if you start poking around:

Izmet Fekali's Playing with the Fish


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Rick Nebiolo
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: offTopic]
      #3899066 - 11/09/05 01:57 PM

Quote:

For your entertainment...




Great link. Geary's story hits it.

~ Rick


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Phogster
journeyman


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3899143 - 11/09/05 02:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

the whole incident of Abdul getting kicked off the 2+2 boards




This needs to be eloborated. The plot thickens....




Stigmata, you've been watching too many soap operas.


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beset
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Phogster]
      #3899380 - 11/09/05 02:30 PM

I've moved to Slovenia. Thanks for inspiring me.

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offTopic
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Rick Nebiolo]
      #3899399 - 11/09/05 02:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

For your entertainment...




Great link. Geary's story hits it.

~ Rick




This, and PaulP's banning caused me to look back into some of my favorite RPG threads. I completely missed that you started the thread that culminated in the "banal, joyless, prick" quote! Congrats on your little piece of history!


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JBB
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3899435 - 11/09/05 02:34 PM

Now THIS is what NVG is all about! Way to be!

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TwoNiner
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: JBB]
      #3899973 - 11/09/05 03:29 PM

Quote:

http://www.slopoker-forum.com/ seems to have a lot of people from there, but I can't understand anything it says...




Yeah, I signed up with English as my language but everything still reads "derka derka derka"


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Spicymoose
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: TwoNiner]
      #3900034 - 11/09/05 03:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.slopoker-forum.com/ seems to have a lot of people from there, but I can't understand anything it says...




Yeah, I signed up with English as my language but everything still reads "derka derka derka"




In Slovanian that means "derb derb derb."


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Ed Miller
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3900612 - 11/09/05 04:24 PM

This rules.

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Equal
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Ed Miller]
      #3901135 - 11/09/05 05:18 PM

Is it possible that DERB is actually David SKLANSKY!?!?! The pieces all seem to fit... he must have been ROFLing when he made the "What's with this DERB?" thread....

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newhizzle
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3901411 - 11/09/05 05:45 PM

this is getting really really good

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Lori
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3901588 - 11/09/05 06:06 PM

Angelina posted here forever before registration was required, the four posts listed are since registration.

Lori


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mother_brain
Pooh-Bah


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Lori]
      #3901622 - 11/09/05 06:09 PM

Angelina is Andy Beal

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Spicymoose
Pooh-Bah


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: mother_brain]
      #3901886 - 11/09/05 06:37 PM

Ed Miller made a strange appearance in this thread. He must be the real Tonda.

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Dominic
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: MattSuspect]
      #3902292 - 11/09/05 07:26 PM

Quote:

Do you guys actually believe ANY Of this?
Seriously.

Josif, son of Mekan Fekali, 5-card stud prodigy at the age of four, dropped out of the Municipal High School of Tirana (Albania) at the age of five, persuing his lifelong dream, a career of a sheep herder. Herded sheep as a freelancer until he immigrated from Albania to Ljubljana, Slovenia in 1960, where he retired twenty years later, serving in position of Special Slovene Herding Advisor.

It's like a bad Austin Powers sequel.




Hey, I was a freelance sheep-herder back in ther 80s.


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checkmate36
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Dominic]
      #3902322 - 11/09/05 07:30 PM

I really just want to know what his party handle is but the soap opera is kind of interesting in a sick kind of way.

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beset
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: TStoneMBD]
      #3902418 - 11/09/05 07:41 PM

Quote:


i really doubt andy prock is from slovenia as andy prock is clearly an american name. slovenia probably just hired him or purchased software from him and he probably helps develop their research online.





The theory isn't that they are all slovenian but that the slovenian government bankrolls poker players and poker research and people relocated there. Sgt. Rock is listed at that project mayhem site and he's from Seattle.


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Python49
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3902868 - 11/09/05 08:34 PM

if someone could just write a summary outlining everything going on and how angelina, DS's comment about "someone" being proud (i forget the name), that website linked, and this guy andy, and what theories people have on whats going on... that would be very helpful to those of us who have not been keeping up with every last detail or newly discovered "piece to the puzzle". Thanks.

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Eurotrash
noob


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3903040 - 11/09/05 08:59 PM

this thread is awesome.

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waxie
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Eurotrash]
      #3903185 - 11/09/05 09:21 PM

I would like to write a history of the entire DERB controversy.

I am currently enrolled in a nonfiction writing class and I think I can convince the professor to allow this story to be my final exam.

Any publishers out there?


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Case Closed
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: MaxPower]
      #3903275 - 11/09/05 09:36 PM

Advocating DERB style?

This thread is badass.


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casinogosain
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Chris.]
      #3903843 - 11/09/05 10:56 PM

Found in the lower left corner of Izmet's site:
Quote:


Kdo je lažnivec?





Plugged into Google leads to this:
some page about Jesus in slovenian

I don't know what to do with this information.

-Ash


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wuwei
Pooh-Bah


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: casinogosain]
      #3904125 - 11/09/05 11:33 PM

Quote:

Found in the lower left corner of Izmet's site:
Quote:


Kdo je lažnivec?





Plugged into Google leads to this:
<a href="www.jesuswho.org/slovenian/whois.htm" target="_blank">some page about Jesus in slovenian</a>

I don't know what to do with this information.

-Ash




Neither do I, but I sense it's very important in the quest to unravel this mystery.

Sklansky sure has a strange fascination with Jesus...


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Nut4Dawgs
Grandfather


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: casinogosain]
      #3904171 - 11/09/05 11:38 PM

The link doesn't work...

Not Found

The requested URL /www.jesuswho.org/slovenian/whois.htm was not found on this server.
Apache/2.0.52 (Red Hat) Server at forumserver.twoplustwo.com Port 80



Or, is this another piece of the puzzle.



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AceHigh
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: TStoneMBD]
      #3904172 - 11/09/05 11:38 PM

Quote:

i really doubt andy prock is from slovenia as andy prock is clearly an american name.




Andrew is definately American and lives in California. (unless he recently moved to Ljubljana).


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wuwei
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Nut4Dawgs]
      #3904234 - 11/09/05 11:48 PM

Quote:

The link doesn't work...

Not Found

The requested URL /www.jesuswho.org/slovenian/whois.htm was not found on this server.
Apache/2.0.52 (Red Hat) Server at forumserver.twoplustwo.com Port 80



Or, is this another piece of the puzzle.






Try this one.


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brick
Pooh-Bah


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Case Closed]
      #3905374 - 11/10/05 02:49 AM

Quote:

Advocating DERB style?

This thread is badass.




This thread is badass. Really the whole DERB things is very fun.


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uDevil
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: waxie]
      #3905414 - 11/10/05 02:58 AM

Quote:

Any publishers out there?




The editor of this magazine seems to have an interest in this kind of thing.


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Clayton
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: uDevil]
      #3905451 - 11/10/05 03:08 AM

I heard that Angelina is giving birth to El Diablo's child, and the unborn fetus is already learning DERB tactics in the womb.

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billyjex
Got Kids?


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: casinogosain]
      #3905517 - 11/10/05 03:26 AM

I think there were hints about this is the Da Vinci Code.. I truly believe that DERB is none other than a descendent of Jesus Christ!

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brick
Pooh-Bah


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My Hypothesis [Re: stigmata]
      #3905630 - 11/10/05 03:58 AM

I think DERB is actually a bot programmed by Andrew Prock who really was hired to do the programming by Angelina. Angelina is Izmet’s wife of course and Tonda is Abdul’s wife. David and Angelina did hookup at one point but only because Ange needed to steal the text for HPFAP in order to build the bot that can crush 2+2’ers. BTW, Tonda is the one from Ljubljana who plays too loose and loses.


In case you are wondering Burek is a flaky meat pie. So why did Izmet sign all his posts with this?
Izmet Fekali
Burek Experts Ltd.
Catering the World Since 1389!”

I have no idea!!



Ljubljana sounds awesome. I want to live there for a while. Izzy & Ange, do you have room for me?
http://www.playboy.com/features/features/travel/06.html


So are they colluding? I doubt is based on this post by Abdul:
http://www.fekali.com:3455/16/38

Oh yeah, the original SSH. Izmet on poker:
http://www.fekali.com:3455/16/Home


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w_alloy
old hand


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: AceHigh]
      #3905744 - 11/10/05 04:31 AM

When Prock was in Ljubljana twice earlier this year he didnt mention visiting any parties mentioned in this thread.

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Jeff W
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Snoogins47]
      #3906045 - 11/10/05 06:50 AM

Quote:

I hear if you record the text of 'Theory of Poker' and play it backwards, it says "This is all for you, sweet Satan." Over, and over, and over, and over, and over.




That is too awesome for words.


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barongreenback
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3906343 - 11/10/05 08:44 AM

Hmmmm, doesn't seem to be run of the mill poker strategy: SLO think tank

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NoSoup4U
enthusiast


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: w_alloy]
      #3906523 - 11/10/05 09:25 AM

Quote:

When Prock was in Ljubljana twice earlier this year he didnt mention visiting any parties mentioned in this thread.




So close...


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Dane S
Danenania of yore


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: barongreenback]
      #3906559 - 11/10/05 09:36 AM

Quote:

Hmmmm, doesn't seem to be run of the mill poker strategy: SLO think tank




WTF?


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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Dane S]
      #3906592 - 11/10/05 09:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hmmmm, doesn't seem to be run of the mill poker strategy: SLO think tank




WTF?




Got them. Red Handed.

http://www.fekali.com:3455/28/12

Seriously, just try editing a page. Anyone could of done that.


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dankhank
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: w_alloy]
      #3906779 - 11/10/05 10:20 AM

Quote:

When Prock was in Ljubljana twice earlier this year he didnt mention visiting any parties mentioned in this thread.




actually, earlier in this thread maxpowers said that abdul jalib was an alias for some guy named michael hall, and they visit a guy named mike in ljubljana and take a picture with him (5/19).

the thing i learned from this thread is that it makes more sense now why andy prock jumped to the defense of DERB six months ago without giving specifics about why his style works. he was defending a friend, but perhaps talking a bit out of his ass while doing it, since it wasn't a first hand knowledge thing.


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NoSoup4U
enthusiast


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: dankhank]
      #3907489 - 11/10/05 12:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When Prock was in Ljubljana twice earlier this year he didnt mention visiting any parties mentioned in this thread.




actually, earlier in this thread maxpowers said that abdul jalib was an alias for some guy named michael hall, and they visit a guy named mike in ljubljana and take a picture with him (5/19).

the thing i learned from this thread is that it makes more sense now why andy prock jumped to the defense of DERB six months ago without giving specifics about why his style works. he was defending a friend, but perhaps talking a bit out of his ass while doing it, since it wasn't a first hand knowledge thing.




Spoilsport! Did they buy a horse?


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barongreenback
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3907572 - 11/10/05 12:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Hmmmm, doesn't seem to be run of the mill poker strategy: SLO think tank




WTF?




Got them. Red Handed.

http://www.fekali.com:3455/28/12

Seriously, just try editing a page. Anyone could of done that.



Rationality has no place in a conspiracy theory thread. There are clearly only 2 possible explanations:

1. They are a Slovenian government funded porn ring. I don't know Slovenia's reason for involvement but I'd like to check recent UFO activity in that part of the world. I also need hardly mention the obvious Slovenia - Pakistan - Bin Laden – Asian tsunami connection.

2. Those links go to articles detailing revolutionary BB defence strategies and limit ring game use of the action bluff. They are disguised to avoid the attention of 2+2ers. We all know the poker world revolves around us.

3. Explanation X.


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offTopic
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: dankhank]
      #3907607 - 11/10/05 12:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When Prock was in Ljubljana twice earlier this year he didnt mention visiting any parties mentioned in this thread.




actually, earlier in this thread maxpowers said that abdul jalib was an alias for some guy named michael hall, and they visit a guy named mike in ljubljana and take a picture with him (5/19).

the thing i learned from this thread is that it makes more sense now why andy prock jumped to the defense of DERB six months ago without giving specifics about why his style works. he was defending a friend, but perhaps talking a bit out of his ass while doing it, since it wasn't a first hand knowledge thing.





C'mon people...what about Luka?

"Luka"..."Lojzka "...hmm...


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Phat Mack
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: AceHigh]
      #3908074 - 11/10/05 01:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

i really doubt andy prock is from slovenia as andy prock is clearly an american name.




Andrew is definately American and lives in California. (unless he recently moved to Ljubljana).




I saw Mr. Prock in Vegas last August playing pot limit Mississippi studooki. Now that I reflect on it, he was probably on a field trip conducting research for the next generation DERB bot.


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Phat Mack
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Re: My Hypothesis [Re: brick]
      #3908179 - 11/10/05 01:26 PM

Quote:

BTW, Tonda is the one from Ljubljana who plays too loose and loses.





I believe that all the Abdulian posts were deleted from the archives, so there's no way to check this, but Tonda's (if Tonda is indeed Mrs. Hall (Mrs. Hall, if I remember correctly, posted on 2+2 as "Lone Star" (and her posts, I believe, were also expunged)))... anyway... Tonda's problem was not that she played too loose, but that Abdul couldn't teach her to look at her cards correctly. Why the incorrect handing of cards would be a problem in internet play is unclear, but if we can solve this mystery, it may clear the whole DERB matter up.


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Spicymoose
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3909219 - 11/10/05 03:22 PM

I think I just solved the mystery.

DERB plays way too many hands, yet still seems to win. Many have talked about somehow scanning players cards so that DERB knows what you have. Andrew Prock created Poker Stove, which many 2+2ers use. Coincidence?

Think that one over.


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newhizzle
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3909443 - 11/10/05 03:47 PM

Quote:

I think I just solved the mystery.

DERB plays way too many hands, yet still seems to win. Many have talked about somehow scanning players cards so that DERB knows what you have. Andrew Prock created Poker Stove, which many 2+2ers use. Coincidence?

Think that one over.




i can tell you from experience that DERB does not play like he can see your cards

if he could i see reasons to change his game up a bit to throw party off, but its very clear that he cant see what you have by the way hell sometimes spew even when you have a monster

also if he could, meta-effects wouldnt really be necessary, so theres not too much reason for him not to play an almost perfect FTOP game, just varying it so that people dont catch on to the fact that he could see your cards



also, i dont think anyones mentioned this yet, but his character on party is a girl


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snappo
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3910443 - 11/10/05 05:25 PM

Quote:

I think I just solved the mystery.

DERB plays way too many hands, yet still seems to win. Many have talked about somehow scanning players cards so that DERB knows what you have. Andrew Prock created Poker Stove, which many 2+2ers use. Coincidence?

Think that one over.




Are you implying that there is code in pokerstove to send your hole cards to someone over the internet? If so it isn't true it would be extremely easy to find out if packets are being sent out by the program and someone would've made a big deal out of it by now.


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Oski
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: DougShrapnel]
      #3910511 - 11/10/05 05:32 PM

Quote:

Vince Lepore is also in on this.

Ljubljana Cheaters Caught. Anyone we know?
Posted by: Bob
Posted on: Friday, 19 January 2001, at 4:44 p.m.

SLOVENIA Casino Cheat Goes Free Melanie Banks, Gambling Newsletter Slovenian police caught an Italian citizen January 16 using a miniature video camera and a mobile phone to cheat in a game of poker in a casino in Ljubljana, which borders with Italy.




Ljubljana does not border Italy. In fact, I don't think there is casino gaming in the city. However, Nova Gorica (Slovenia) borders Italy and has three large casinos.

The casinos cater to Italians and the staff all speak Italian.


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NLSoldier
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3912133 - 11/10/05 09:19 PM

I had a dream about the consipriacy during my 6 hr afternoon "nap" today. Sklansky had murdered abdul jalib and was hiding out in an underground room in 2+2 headquarters. Some top 2+2ers were sorting out the facts and finally getting close to the truth. Some other top 2+2ers were in cahoots with sklansky and kept holding secret meetings with him in his secret hiding place.

Then somehow I was at 2+2 HQ and stumbled upon the hallway which lead to the secret hideout. When I looked down the hall I saw sklansky chasing mike caro with a shotgun. When he saw me he decided to chase me and instead so I took off and ran upstairs and jumped out a window. He continued to follow me down the street and his shots were coming closer and closer to me until all the sudden, just when I thought he had me, he dropped dead. Shot from behind. I looked back and saw Mason, gun-drawn walking toward David's body.

Then I woke up, thats the best I can remember it anyways. I couldnt make this sh!t up if I tried.


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Sponger.
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: NLSoldier]
      #3912193 - 11/10/05 09:28 PM

Get a [censored] life! Dream about hot chicks not 2+2.

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Mason MalmuthAdministrator
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Re: My Hypothesis [Re: Phat Mack]
      #3912469 - 11/10/05 10:03 PM

Hi Mack:

None of these posts were deleted from the archives.

I also think the correct spelling is "Tanya" and she did post as Lonestar.

Best wishes,
Mason


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eviljeff
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: NLSoldier]
      #3913209 - 11/10/05 11:53 PM

Quote:

I had a dream about the consipriacy during my 6 hr afternoon "nap" today. Sklansky had murdered abdul jalib and was hiding out in an underground room in 2+2 headquarters. Some top 2+2ers were sorting out the facts and finally getting close to the truth. Some other top 2+2ers were in cahoots with sklansky and kept holding secret meetings with him in his secret hiding place.

Then somehow I was at 2+2 HQ and stumbled upon the hallway which lead to the secret hideout. When I looked down the hall I saw sklansky chasing mike caro with a shotgun. When he saw me he decided to chase me and instead so I took off and ran upstairs and jumped out a window. He continued to follow me down the street and his shots were coming closer and closer to me until all the sudden, just when I thought he had me, he dropped dead. Shot from behind. I looked back and saw Mason, gun-drawn walking toward David's body.

Then I woke up, thats the best I can remember it anyways. I couldnt make this sh!t up if I tried.




I want to be the first to officially recognize this as awesome.


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Case Closed
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: NLSoldier]
      #3913895 - 11/11/05 01:48 AM

That is quite the dream. I don't know what those dream books have to say about David S. chasing you with a shotgun.

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Snoogins47
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: TylerD]
      #3913956 - 11/11/05 02:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Now that I have everyones attention, I can ask the question that has really been burning on people lips since this whole debacle started:

How the hell do you pronounce Ljubljana?




lyOO'blyänä




http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?ggljub01.wav=Ljubljana


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NoSoup4U
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Re: My Hypothesis [Re: Mason Malmuth]
      #3915538 - 11/11/05 09:54 AM

Quote:

Hi Mack:

None of these posts were deleted from the archives.

I also think the correct spelling is "Tanya" and she did post as Lonestar.

Best wishes,
Mason




Its "Tonda", I promise. Perhaps you would be more convinced by an authority


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TheRegulat0r
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: eviljeff]
      #3916111 - 11/11/05 11:31 AM

This thread is [censored] nuts. I love it.

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waxie
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: TheRegulat0r]
      #3916631 - 11/11/05 12:51 PM

I've figured it out.

We all know that it's impossible to beat bad players. They don't respect raises, they complete in the SB with crap. A thinking player, like myself, just can't beat bad players. In order to win money, we've all got to play good players.

Sklansky and his posse kept losing to the bad players. So they published the Theory of Poker to turn those bad players into good players-- this would make them more beatable. However, the TwoPlusTwo guys also knew that these new good players, who are TAG, would need fishy players...so, using EPSN and WPT, they caused the poker boom and an influx of weak players.

The DERB style is best for beating these good players. DERB is actually Sklansky and the rest is a total farce. The guys behind TwoPlusTwo are so smart, they invented a winning style, TAG, that could be beaten by the DERB style. Then, they increased the number of TAG players by causing the poker boom. The TAG players beat the fish and then DERB beats the TAG.


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jackdaniels
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3918208 - 11/11/05 04:07 PM

This thread IS awesome!

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SL__72
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: jackdaniels]
      #3919029 - 11/11/05 05:36 PM

If this thread was in OOT I'm sure the mystery of DERB's true identity would have been solved days ago.

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Cancuk
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DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: BarronVangorToth]
      #3919058 - 11/11/05 05:41 PM

So, i thought to sort out all of these questions that we were having, I would just go straight to the source. Izmet Fekali.

I emailed Mr. Fekali asking him if:
1) he was DERB
2) If he wasn't, was DERB part of his "research group"
3) If he wasn't part of his "research group", the dose he know who he is?
4) If he still frequents twoplustwo.com

He said that he doesn't frequent twoplustwo.com, that DERB isn't part of his "research groups", but he does know the player.

I also asked if he could shed any light on how the player plays, and this is what he said:

"He is a player from our private Ljubljana game where players tend to pick up ideas. He will make a lot of money frome weak players. Solid players should not have problems adjusting to his play."

So, there you have it. Take it if you want, but, my money still says he's a bot.


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Justin A
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: NLSoldier]
      #3919575 - 11/11/05 06:53 PM

Quote:

I had a dream about the consipriacy during my 6 hr afternoon "nap" today. Sklansky had murdered abdul jalib and was hiding out in an underground room in 2+2 headquarters. Some top 2+2ers were sorting out the facts and finally getting close to the truth. Some other top 2+2ers were in cahoots with sklansky and kept holding secret meetings with him in his secret hiding place.

Then somehow I was at 2+2 HQ and stumbled upon the hallway which lead to the secret hideout. When I looked down the hall I saw sklansky chasing mike caro with a shotgun. When he saw me he decided to chase me and instead so I took off and ran upstairs and jumped out a window. He continued to follow me down the street and his shots were coming closer and closer to me until all the sudden, just when I thought he had me, he dropped dead. Shot from behind. I looked back and saw Mason, gun-drawn walking toward David's body.

Then I woke up, thats the best I can remember it anyways. I couldnt make this sh!t up if I tried.




I'm so bitter that I never have dreams this great.


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The Truth
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: SL__72]
      #3921921 - 11/12/05 02:30 AM

I'm suprised the powers that be didn't lock the thread long ago

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Peter666
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Re: My Hypothesis [Re: NoSoup4U]
      #3922098 - 11/12/05 03:12 AM

To add more confusion: Tonda is not a real name, or at least not a Slovenien name. Whatever it is, it has been made up. If we are talking about a real person who uses their real name then "Tanya" makes sense if they are Slovenien.

But very few are cool enough to be Slovenien.


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Peter666
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: wuwei]
      #3922131 - 11/12/05 03:26 AM

"Kdo je lažnivec?"

This correctly translated is: Who is the liar?


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disjunction
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: Cancuk]
      #3922786 - 11/12/05 08:07 AM

Quote:

Take it if you want, but, my money still says he's a bot.




If DERB were a bot, his play would most likely get worse as more players entered the pot. It might be interesting for someone with a lot of hands on him with Pokertracker should check his results with 2,3,4,5,6 players seeing the flop, and compare it with other players of his winrate, and separately compare with other players with the same VPIP/Aggression, even if the latter are losing players. It would be very interesting if losing players play better than DERB multiway. If there are no good comparisons to be made for winrate, examining AA, KK, QQ, JJ multiway hands that see showdown may be interesting. This is all unscientific.


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Spicymoose
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: disjunction]
      #3922797 - 11/12/05 08:15 AM

Quote:

If DERB were a bot, his play would most likely get worse as more players entered the pot. It might be interesting for someone with a lot of hands on him with Pokertracker should check his results with 2,3,4,5,6 players seeing the flop, and compare it with other players of his winrate, and separately compare with other players with the same VPIP/Aggression, even if the latter are losing players. It would be very interesting if losing players play better than DERB multiway. If there are no good comparisons to be made for winrate, examining AA, KK, QQ, JJ multiway hands that see showdown may be interesting.




Quote:

This is all unscientific.




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newhizzle
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3922890 - 11/12/05 08:51 AM

there was a guy at the party 50 game last night named DerbsACheat, i would imagine he was a 2+2er, he only stayed for like 1 round tho

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disjunction
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3923540 - 11/12/05 12:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

This is all unscientific.







But just because you can't figure out a good methodology, this is not a reason to just throw up your hands and give up. Every time I sit down at the poker table I perform an unscientific study, if a guy plays the first two hands I see like he has the nuts, I tentatively call him an LAG.

In the real world, you can't just sit around waiting for perfect data.

Edited by disjunction (11/12/05 12:34 PM)


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Rick Nebiolo
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: Cancuk]
      #3924556 - 11/12/05 03:24 PM

Quote:

So, i thought to sort out all of these questions that we were having, I would just go straight to the source. Izmet Fekali.

I emailed Mr. Fekali asking him if:
1) he was DERB
2) If he wasn't, was DERB part of his "research group"
3) If he wasn't part of his "research group", the dose he know who he is?
4) If he still frequents twoplustwo.com

He said that he doesn't frequent twoplustwo.com, that DERB isn't part of his "research groups", but he does know the player.

I also asked if he could shed any light on how the player plays, and this is what he said:

"He is a player from our private Ljubljana game where players tend to pick up ideas. He will make a lot of money frome weak players. Solid players should not have problems adjusting to his play."

So, there you have it. Take it if you want, but, my money still says he's a bot.




I had some contact with Izmet and Abdul several years back. Izmet is a cool guy but is capable of spinning so many stories that anything goes. That said, I still put my money on DERB being Abdul Jalib and not a bot.

~ Rick


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Spicymoose
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: disjunction]
      #3926064 - 11/12/05 08:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This is all unscientific.







But just because you can't figure out a good methodology, this is not a reason to just throw up your hands and give up. Every time I sit down at the poker table I perform an unscientific study, if a guy plays the first two hands I see like he has the nuts, I tentatively call him an LAG.

In the real world, you can't just sit around waiting for perfect data.




Yes, I know that studies don't have to be scientific to be useful. The main reason I replied to your post the way you did, is because it is absolutely ridiculous to do what you proposed. DERB is obviously a real person, and it would be a huge waste of time to try to compile some data to show whether or not he is a bot.


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disjunction
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3926407 - 11/12/05 09:19 PM

Quote:



Yes, I know that studies don't have to be scientific to be useful. The main reason I replied to your post the way you did, is because it is absolutely ridiculous to do what you proposed. DERB is obviously a real person, and it would be a huge waste of time to try to compile some data to show whether or not he is a bot.




Huge waste of time??? It would take about 2 minutes using Pokertracker, if that. It's in the filter on the main page. I guess your time is more valuable than mine.

I tend to agree that DERB is probably a real person. However, mine was one of the few posts that actually suggested analyzing one of the hypotheses that have been made. If it doesn't come in useful for DERB, it may come in handy when some other player is in question.

These boards have had multiple discussions about bots and nobody ever says anything useful. I tend to withhold saying anything useful, as well, because all I'd get in return is snide comments. On 2+2, it seems, the only way out of this box is to post one's winrate, IQ, and/or GRE scores. Luckily I'm going to be away from the Internet for the next week...


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sweetjazz
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: disjunction]
      #3926468 - 11/12/05 09:29 PM

Your post was fine. The boards are just too cluttered for very many "nice post" replies, so you are only going to see criticisms. If you think a criticism missed the mark, don't take it personally.

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casinogosain
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3926521 - 11/12/05 09:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If DERB were a bot, his play would most likely get worse as more players entered the pot. It might be interesting for someone with a lot of hands on him with Pokertracker should check his results with 2,3,4,5,6 players seeing the flop, and compare it with other players of his winrate, and separately compare with other players with the same VPIP/Aggression, even if the latter are losing players. It would be very interesting if losing players play better than DERB multiway. If there are no good comparisons to be made for winrate, examining AA, KK, QQ, JJ multiway hands that see showdown may be interesting.




Quote:

This is all unscientific.







Is DERB the next phase of our Intelligent Designer's plan?

-Ash


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bakethejake
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: jackdaniels]
      #3926525 - 11/12/05 09:44 PM

Quote:

This thread IS awesome!




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JohnG
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: w_alloy]
      #3927282 - 11/13/05 12:31 AM

Quote:

When Prock was in Ljubljana twice earlier this year he didnt mention visiting any parties mentioned in this thread.




Apart from at least 2. Abdul and izmet.


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newhizzle
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3935819 - 11/14/05 06:46 AM

ive noticed something playing against DERB that sort of contradicts the belief that he is a winner because of meta-effects, from what ive seen, DERB likes to slowplay when he flops a monster like a flush or a set, he will bet/call or check/call the flop and wait till the turn to get aggressive, i havent played many hands with him, so i dont know how often he does it, but almost every time hes flopped a monster against me, he waits till the turn, i dont see how meta-effects can really help him that much if he dosent jam the flop with his good hands right?

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Mason MalmuthAdministrator
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: newhizzle]
      #3935850 - 11/14/05 06:53 AM

Hi newhizzle:

You may be right in the sense that this may not be the way to maximize his profit on these hands, but he should still make a pretty good profit on them. Also, they don't occur very often. So you're looking at a difference that may not be that great that only happens on occasion. So, assuming that you are correct, this should not impact Derb's long run results very much.

Best wishes,
Mason


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newhizzle
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Mason Malmuth]
      #3935953 - 11/14/05 07:41 AM

hi mason,

the reason i pointed this out is because i think a lot of people believe that the way that DERB makes up lost bets where he jams the flop with bad hands is by playing good hands the same way and getting played back at by people who think he is either FOS or on some kind of draw, but if he dosent get full value on these hands, then where does he make up these lost bets and where do his extra profits come from, just fold equity?


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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: newhizzle]
      #3935967 - 11/14/05 07:48 AM

Also, he sometimes waits for the turn to raise with top/middle pair. Waiting for the turn to raise with both medium and high strength hands balances his common turn semi-bluffs. This part of his game seems designed to exploit "robotic" ABC type players who are raising preflop, and then auto-betting the flop/turn when HU, but folding often to turn check-raises.

He seems to be exploiting the fact that these ABC-TAGs are often putting too much in the pot with the worst hand postflop, but conversely is also exploiting fold equity on the turn.

This analysis is based on an extremely limited number of hands, so please be circumspect.


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newhizzle
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3936004 - 11/14/05 08:03 AM

this makes sense

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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: newhizzle]
      #3936021 - 11/14/05 08:10 AM

In a related note, the av. pot size DERB wins is totally normal, so the idea that he is generating excess action appears to be a total fallacy.

My general thoughts on the strategic side of DERB:

PREFLOP: The effect of rake is really quite small at 30/60 up. The punishment for playing loosely is probably less than many people probably think. Also, domination is much more likely when playing multiway pots than when HU, so is probably less of a problem at high-stakes online poker than elsewhere. Thus again, DERB is perhaps not being punished as badly for poor hand selection as we may think.

POSTFLOP: He seems to play well from a game-theoretic viewpoint when HU after the flop. In fact, postflop his play is somewhat remeniscint of the sparbot produced the Poki team. E.g. A good level of aggression, which is well balanced between the flop/turn and different strength hands and semi-bluffs, some very liberal calldowns with K-high etc, but sometimes poor hand reading skills. Furthermore, his postflop play seems to be somewhat designed to exploit the most common ABC play: Raise preflop first-in with position, bet the flop, bet the turn, fold if unimproved. His exploitation of this play explains the loose cold-calls and loose blind defence.

As stated before, this is all just an educated guess from a very limited number of hands. I may or may not investigate my these hypothesese further. I also agree with others that he is probably an OK player who has ran very good, but this does not mean that nothing can be learnt from him.


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Spicymoose
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3936174 - 11/14/05 09:01 AM

Quote:

In a related note, the av. pot size DERB wins is totally normal, so the idea that he is generating excess action appears to be a total fallacy.





It is a fallacy to think that simply because his average pot size is normal, that he isn´t generating excess access. I don´t know that he is in fact generating action, but he could easily have a normal average pot size. This could happen if some of his pots are huge from excess action, and many of his pots are extra small, from his excess folding equity.


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stigmata
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Spicymoose]
      #3936220 - 11/14/05 09:13 AM

Fair point, but it does stand as evidence against the idea that he is routinely getting excess action.....

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rigoletto
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3936784 - 11/14/05 10:41 AM

Quote:

Fair point, but it does stand as evidence against the idea that he is routinely getting excess action.....




He doesn't have to get excess action, as long as he ALLWAYS get action!


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Mason MalmuthAdministrator
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: newhizzle]
      #3945250 - 11/15/05 06:40 AM

Hi newhizzle:

He would tend to get extra value on his more common winning hands. Top pair would be a good example.

Let me give an example. I remember a hand played in a $40-$80 hold 'em game at The Mirage from a couple of years ago. A nutty girl bet on the river and there was an ace-king on board. She got three callers and the third caller had an ace-nine. How this person could make this call is beyond me, but I suspect that if someone else had made the initial bet, he would have folded.

Best wishes,
Mason


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #3956447 - 11/16/05 12:16 PM

Quote:

In a related note, the av. pot size DERB wins is totally normal, so the idea that he is generating excess action appears to be a total fallacy.



Yes, but doesn't it matter that he is coming in with much weaker hands on average? You would expect his average pot size to be smaller since weaker hands are harder to value bet.


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omahahahaha
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: SamG]
      #3999965 - 11/21/05 10:48 PM

someone playing at my SuperMonday tourney tonight had the screen name of: IZMETtheDERB

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RR
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: Rick Nebiolo]
      #4000212 - 11/21/05 11:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So, i thought to sort out all of these questions that we were having, I would just go straight to the source. Izmet Fekali.

I emailed Mr. Fekali asking him if:
1) he was DERB
2) If he wasn't, was DERB part of his "research group"
3) If he wasn't part of his "research group", the dose he know who he is?
4) If he still frequents twoplustwo.com

He said that he doesn't frequent twoplustwo.com, that DERB isn't part of his "research groups", but he does know the player.

I also asked if he could shed any light on how the player plays, and this is what he said:

"He is a player from our private Ljubljana game where players tend to pick up ideas. He will make a lot of money frome weak players. Solid players should not have problems adjusting to his play."

So, there you have it. Take it if you want, but, my money still says he's a bot.




I had some contact with Izmet and Abdul several years back. Izmet is a cool guy but is capable of spinning so many stories that anything goes. That said, I still put my money on DERB being Abdul Jalib and not a bot.

~ Rick




I have to agree with you. This has been a pretty fun thread for me, a lot of history in this thread.


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solidswede
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #4061458 - 11/30/05 03:48 AM

DERB is not Izmet Fekahli. Fekahli's is a real family

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Vanishing Act
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: solidswede]
      #4063694 - 11/30/05 12:31 PM

1)

Quote:

When Prock was in Ljubljana twice earlier this year he didnt mention visiting any parties mentioned in this thread.




Except he absolutely did. When in Ljubljana, he mentions seeing friends named Jonas and Mike, which may or may not have anything to do with anything, but he did mention seeing Izmet Fekali by name (the stables look really nice).

2) It seems pretty obvious that the Fekali family is some joke that goes back to the RGP days, but it also seems like Izmet Fekali is a real person and that might even be his real name. So, then, who is Angelina on Paradise, and who is this?

Edit: And can I get her number?

Edited by Vanishing Act (11/30/05 12:39 PM)


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slavic
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: waxie]
      #4063998 - 11/30/05 01:06 PM

Quote:

The DERB style is best for beating these good players. DERB is actually Sklansky and the rest is a total farce. The guys behind TwoPlusTwo are so smart, they invented a winning style, TAG, that could be beaten by the DERB style. Then, they increased the number of TAG players by causing the poker boom. The TAG players beat the fish and then DERB beats the TAG.




I hate to interject facts into this thread, but the DERB style does not do well at all versus a TAG. It depends on weaker players, and irrationaly overaggressive postflop players.


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Dids
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Mason Malmuth]
      #4068294 - 11/30/05 07:48 PM

Quote:

Hi newhizzle:

He would tend to get extra value on his more common winning hands. Top pair would be a good example.

Let me give an example. I remember a hand played in a $40-$80 hold 'em game at The Mirage from a couple of years ago. A nutty girl bet on the river and there was an ace-king on board. She got three callers and the third caller had an ace-nine. How this person could make this call is beyond me, but I suspect that if someone else had made the initial bet, he would have folded.

Best wishes,
Mason




I'm guessing times have changed some- because is A9 calling here really that shocking in a 40 game these days?


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sublime
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Dids]
      #4069070 - 11/30/05 09:26 PM


I'm guessing times have changed some- because is A9 calling here really that shocking in a 40 game these days?


not really online, but live it would be somewhat.

i agree its not 'that' crazy since the pot must have been huge.


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sublime
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Mason Malmuth]
      #4069083 - 11/30/05 09:27 PM

Quote:

Hi newhizzle:

You may be right in the sense that this may not be the way to maximize his profit on these hands, but he should still make a pretty good profit on them. Also, they don't occur very often. So you're looking at a difference that may not be that great that only happens on occasion. So, assuming that you are correct, this should not impact Derb's long run results very much.

Best wishes,
Mason




Hi Mason Malmuth:

Please give DERB the respect he deserves and not pronounce his name Derb.

Best Wishes,
Sublime


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samr
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: sublime]
      #4069569 - 11/30/05 10:29 PM

Check the date.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gambl...76dd8c77b1f9f23


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Steve Giufre
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: solidswede]
      #4070900 - 12/01/05 01:24 AM

Quote:

DERB is not Izmet Fekahli. Fekahli's is a real family




And he isnt Angelina, and he isnt a bot. He's just a poker player who plays too many hands, puts in too much action, and gets paid by other bad players way more than he should.


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BluffTHIS!
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Vanishing Act]
      #4071508 - 12/01/05 03:06 AM

From the secret annals of the SPRA:

Agent Prock stood there in the drizzling rain on the street corner in Ljubljana. He pulled his collar up against the warm summer rain and casually lit a cigarette, subltely using the silver lighter as a mirror to check behind him. With a quick snap he shut the lighter and furtively looked at the opposite side of the street once again. Then he sauntered off down the block and made a quick left turn into the alley. Near the end of the deadend alley, invisible from the street, was a recess and a secret door which he opened by pressing a certain brick. The door closed silently behind him and he entered a dimly lit warehouse and walked to the office a short distance ahead.

As soon as he had entered the office, and before he could make an admiring comment about Angelina's oh so svelte and enticing appearance in her customary mini skirt and tight thin top which showed the outline of her breasts sharply, Izmet barked out the question, "Were you followed?". "What do you take me for", said Prock, "of course I wasn't followed". "Good", said Izmet, the leader of the super-secret SPRA, the Slovenian Poker Research Agency. "You know what happens to incompetents around here". And well did Prock know, having seen the unmarked graves in the back field where the screw-up agents and bot programmers were buried.

Only then did he notice the shadowy figure in the corner of the office, purposely sitting out of the light in the corner so that his features could not be fully recognized. It was none other than Secret Agent DERB, a man with many alias' who had travelled the world seeking help to research the way to crack the TAG poker style. In years past people knew him as Michael Hall, then as Abdul Jalib, and now simply as Agent DERB. Agelina walked over to sit beside DERB, and she started to massage his aching wrists, fatigued by unending hours of mouse gestures while 10-tabling the Party 30/60 tables and wreaking havoc on the bankrolls and psyches of the so-called TAGs, minions of the leaders of SPRA's mortal enemy, the 2p2, lead by co-chairmen Sklansky and Malmuth.

Izmet said, "Let's get down to business". He looked at Prock and said, "Were you successful? Did you get it?". Prock nodded and said, "Yes but it wasn't easy. They kept it locked up in the safe of the 2p2 headquarters. Sklansky's never around, but Malmuth comes and goes at odd times, and Sklansky's welp Matt hardly ever leaves, sitting there in front of his damn computer watching porn on one monitor and reading those endless mind-numbing posts on 2p2's forums on the other. I had to wait until nearly 5 in the morning on the 3rd day I was staking out their joint before I could get in. Those dumb humps had the usual simple-to-figure-out password on their security system, taking the integer part of the cube root of the square of "MikeCaroIsaDope" rendered into a numeral. Once I was in, it only took me 10 minutes to spring open the safe. I did have a close call leaving though, as Mason was stumbling in after another "experimental" losing no-limit session at the Bellagio. But I ducked behind a file cabinet and slid out when he went to the john to relieve himself."

Prock then reached inside his coat and pulled out an envelope, which he handed over to Izmet. "At last!", cried Izmet, "We have the last piece of the TAG counter-strategy those greedy fools keep from all the sheep who hang on their every word and bow down to the TAG philosophy. They've kept it all to themselves, forcing us to spend years working it out. But now we have the last bit that we couldn't figure out! Now our programmers will be able to code the ultimate bot, based on DERB's trial and error and this final piece of strategy. No longer will the TAGs suck the fish dry, but will become the fish for us instead!", exclaimed Izmet with fervor and an almost eery glow.

Angelina spoke softly and said, "Well open it and don't keep us waiting! Agent DERB is tired and needs to get some sleep. He only stayed up after another 40 hour session so he could hear this before going to bed". Izmet slowly opened the envelope, marked 'Top Secret' and bearing the 2p2 logo, and took out the single page inside. On it was only once sentence, in very large handwriting obviously written by Sklansky. It said . . .


8-5 is the golden ratio in poker, the ratio of low to high cards.


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MyTurn2Raise
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: BluffTHIS!]
      #4072332 - 12/01/05 07:00 AM

That's it...I want to move to Ljubljana and become an 'apprentice' of the great poker minds that seem to inhabit the land! I do not have much to exchange except being a willing pupil. In my opinion, the teacher gets as much if not more out of master-apprentice relationships. I have been playing for a living for 18 months now, so there is much I need to unlearn. I am more than willing.

BTW-It looks like a lovely area of the world. I only know English...looks like I'll be learning other things as well.


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oreopimp
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: TStoneMBD]
      #4072720 - 12/01/05 09:12 AM

Quote:

andy prock created pokerstove and has said in other threads that there is alot of mathematical information that he knows about but wont share with the public. hes indicated that he has some really sickening software out there that everyone would love to have but he wont share it.




Any ideas to what kind of stuff this "special super secret" software does?


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spud347
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: oreopimp]
      #4197689 - 12/14/05 08:37 PM

There's only one thing that really got to me in this thread:

DS tutors for $400/hour?! That's like the GDP of some small countries!


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Quicksilvre
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #4207237 - 12/15/05 08:41 PM

What?

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KaneKungFu123
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #4210502 - 12/16/05 07:38 AM




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Keepitsimple
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: KaneKungFu123]
      #4210744 - 12/16/05 09:02 AM

I have never understood women from eastern europe.

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BluffTHIS!
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Keepitsimple]
      #4210929 - 12/16/05 09:42 AM

Quote:

I have never understood women from eastern europe.




1. They grew up poor.
2. They want to be rich.
3. They will do whatever is necessary to accomplish #2.


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Qbit
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #4215085 - 12/16/05 06:56 PM

Recently asked Hosh about Derb. He refused to give details on the strategy. He admits to working on some strategy with Abdul a long time ago. But is mum on strategy Derb is using and the how Derb seems to get the accuracy for the check raises on the turn. Seems like he considers them friends so will not even discuss any stategy being used online today.

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astroglide
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Qbit]
      #4215534 - 12/16/05 08:20 PM

who is hosh?

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Victor
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Qbit]
      #4215765 - 12/16/05 09:01 PM

Quote:

Recently asked Hosh about Derb. He refused to give details on the strategy. He admits to working on some strategy with Abdul a long time ago. But is mum on strategy Derb is using and the how Derb seems to get the accuracy for the check raises on the turn. Seems like he considers them friends so will not even discuss any stategy being used online today.




great post. way to keep the drama alive.


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jackdaniels
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Victor]
      #4231586 - 12/19/05 10:03 AM

I just read the following quote:

Quote:

Second, Abdul and Fekali leaned heavily on TTH in creating their theories of poker. There is strong evidence that there are at least three Abdul-Fekali adherents (Abdul, Fekali, and Fekali’s sister) who are members of Sklansky’s 500 Club. This alone makes TTH worth investigating.





From this thread back in 2002

Sklansky’s 500 Club????????


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Ed Miller
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: astroglide]
      #4233157 - 12/19/05 01:55 PM

Quote:

who is hosh?




In 2003, he played a lot of $15-$30 at the Bellagio. Probably 60 hours a week. He probably won a bit. I don't have more recent info because I'm out of touch.


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SinCityGuy
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Ed Miller]
      #4233968 - 12/19/05 03:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

who is hosh?




In 2003, he played a lot of $15-$30 at the Bellagio. Probably 60 hours a week. He probably won a bit. I don't have more recent info because I'm out of touch.




I haven't played B&M in over a year, but I used to play with this guy at the Bellagio. He is more commonly known as "Canadian Mike".


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The DaveR
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Ed Miller]
      #4234231 - 12/19/05 04:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

who is hosh?




In 2003, he played a lot of $15-$30 at the Bellagio. Probably 60 hours a week. He probably won a bit. I don't have more recent info because I'm out of touch.




I think he was playing in March this year when I was in town. He was passing out his affiliate cards if I remember correctly, and if we're thinking about the same person.


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Riina
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: J_V]
      #4235296 - 12/19/05 06:44 PM

yes, this UNcrypted Sklansky REMARK :

"I see no reaon for it to be farfetched that if there is a God he is mildly disgusted by the typical worshipper much the same way I am mildly disgusted by the typical fan who hasn't studied my stuff" 11/15/2005


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AceHigh
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: jackdaniels]
      #4235376 - 12/19/05 06:54 PM

Quote:

Sklansky’s 500 Club????????




I think this refers to a comment where DS guessed there were about 500 professional players were making a "good" living at poker. I forget how he defined good, but is was pretty mediocre, like $80,000 or more in a year. Obviously a few would be making a lot more.

Edited by AceHigh (12/19/05 06:54 PM)


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BadBoyBenny
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Re: My Hypothesis [Re: brick]
      #4247152 - 12/20/05 11:54 PM

I've been to Ljubliana. All I can think of to say right now is that city parties hard. And there are parts of Slovenia that are absolutely gorgeous. However, it was not as fun or beautiful as Croatia.

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Cancuk
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Re: DERB is...based on Izmet Fekali Email [Re: disjunction]
      #4249074 - 12/21/05 06:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Yes, I know that studies don't have to be scientific to be useful. The main reason I replied to your post the way you did, is because it is absolutely ridiculous to do what you proposed. DERB is obviously a real person, and it would be a huge waste of time to try to compile some data to show whether or not he is a bot.




Huge waste of time??? It would take about 2 minutes using Pokertracker, if that. It's in the filter on the main page. I guess your time is more valuable than mine.

I tend to agree that DERB is probably a real person. However, mine was one of the few posts that actually suggested analyzing one of the hypotheses that have been made. If it doesn't come in useful for DERB, it may come in handy when some other player is in question.

These boards have had multiple discussions about bots and nobody ever says anything useful. I tend to withhold saying anything useful, as well, because all I'd get in return is snide comments. On 2+2, it seems, the only way out of this box is to post one's winrate, IQ, and/or GRE scores. Luckily I'm going to be away from the Internet for the next week...




Do you want a hug?


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smellmuth
Dark Side Player


Reged: 11/04/05
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: jackdaniels]
      #4267030 - 12/23/05 01:37 PM

i am officially freaked out.

EDIT: while i was tripping out to this thread last night, it occured to me that abdul jalib M'HALL = Michael Hall.

Edited by smellmuth (12/23/05 01:38 PM)


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mmcd
Carpal \'Tunnel


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Just an FYI [Re: stigmata]
      #4407874 - 01/10/06 08:12 PM

According to my buddylist, DERB's new screename is JozeSulica.

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slickpoppa
*


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Posts: 5588
Re: Just an FYI [Re: mmcd]
      #9628247 - 03/20/07 10:14 AM

bump

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bottomset
Carpal \'Tunnel


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Re: Just an FYI [Re: slickpoppa]
      #9628487 - 03/20/07 10:43 AM

Quote:

bump




wtf why on earth did you bump this


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PaulWilmot
journeyman


Reged: 11/09/05
Posts: 89
Re: Just an FYI [Re: mmcd]
      #9628543 - 03/20/07 10:49 AM

Quote:

According to my buddylist, DERB's new screename is JozeSulica.




eh, sir, thats a negative


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Rootabager
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 05/07/05
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Re: Just an FYI [Re: PaulWilmot]
      #9629955 - 03/20/07 12:50 PM

All these old derb threads were such a great read. I love conspiracy theories.

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Ron Burgundy
hey aqualung


Reged: 08/03/05
Posts: 5208
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Re: Just an FYI [Re: Rootabager]
      #9633496 - 03/20/07 05:24 PM

lol, check out Izmet's blog post from October last year. He might be good at poker, but he sure sucks at predicting the effects of UIGEA.

linky


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Jackal69
old hand


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Re: Just an FYI [Re: Rootabager]
      #9633618 - 03/20/07 05:32 PM

CLIFF NOTES PLS!

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The Camel
enthusiast


Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 360
Re: Just an FYI [Re: Rootabager]
      #9633937 - 03/20/07 05:57 PM

I remember playing Angelina in the early days of Paradise Poker short handed limit hold'em. Angelina was the first star of internet poker.

Did anyone discover if Angelina really existed? Or was she just a character invented by Izmet?


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JohnAndersen
old hand


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Re: Just an FYI [Re: The Camel]
      #9634801 - 03/20/07 06:59 PM

oooooohhhh this is a good good read

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Broke Rounder
member


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Posts: 175
Re: Just an FYI [Re: Jackal69]
      #9634866 - 03/20/07 07:06 PM

Quote:

CLIFF NOTES PLS!




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beset
Carpal \'Tunnel


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Re: Just an FYI [Re: Broke Rounder]
      #9635161 - 03/20/07 07:33 PM

totally bump worthy i loved the derb saga

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svidrigailov
enthusiast


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Posts: 295
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Re: Just an FYI [Re: Jackal69]
      #9635607 - 03/20/07 08:06 PM

Quote:

CLIFF NOTES PLS!




it's actually worth reading unlike some other super long nvg threads


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mmbt0ne
em em bee


Reged: 08/18/04
Posts: 12169
Loc: Back in ATL
Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: Spicymoose]
      #9636304 - 03/20/07 09:05 PM

I can only hope that I inspired this bump.

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slickpoppa
*


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Posts: 5588
Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: mmbt0ne]
      #9636373 - 03/20/07 09:12 PM

Quote:

I can only hope that I inspired this bump.




I was inspired by the Linkoping thread. I think Linkoping is the new Ljubljana.


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mmbt0ne
em em bee


Reged: 08/18/04
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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: slickpoppa]
      #9636435 - 03/20/07 09:17 PM

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=9610605&page=0&vc=1

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KotOD
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Re: Just an FYI [Re: The Camel]
      #9637262 - 03/20/07 10:19 PM

Quote:

I remember playing Angelina in the early days of Paradise Poker short handed limit hold'em. Angelina was the first star of internet poker.

Did anyone discover if Angelina really existed? Or was she just a character invented by Izmet?




http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...e.com&hl=en


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willw9
Caught in the act


Reged: 11/27/06
Posts: 4235
Loc: where momma keeps the peanut b...
Re: Just an FYI [Re: KotOD]
      #9638021 - 03/20/07 11:21 PM

Cliffnotes please?

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MYNAMEIZGREG
Pooh-Bah


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Posts: 2022
Loc: LeggoPoker
Re: Just an FYI [Re: willw9]
      #9640440 - 03/21/07 03:32 AM

Also, I didn't read the thread, but is there any relation to the player Ljubljana on FTP who plays some 10/20 nl and mostly 5/10 NL?

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Tuco
Internet Poker Secret Agent


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Re: Just an FYI [Re: MYNAMEIZGREG]
      #9641286 - 03/21/07 05:43 AM

Quote:

Also, I didn't read the thread, but is there any relation to the player Ljubljana on FTP who plays some 10/20 nl and mostly 5/10 NL?




Doubt it, there is a Ljubljana in every state. Surprised The Simpsons don't live there.

Tuco.


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Mickey Brausch
Banned


Reged: 08/01/06
Posts: 2209
Re: Just an FYI [Re: The Camel]
      #9656814 - 03/22/07 04:49 AM

Quote:

I remember playing Angelina in the early days of Paradise Poker short handed limit hold'em. Angelina was the first star of internet poker.




I remember her all too well. She should write a monograph on Big Slick.



Quote:

Did anyone discover if Angelina really existed? Or was she just a character invented by Izmet?


Good kataifs are as good imagined as devoured.

Mickey Brausch


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MitkoMatko
stranger


Reged: 01/28/07
Posts: 23
Loc: Donking cash avay on party
Re: Just an FYI [Re: KotOD]
      #9657018 - 03/22/07 05:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I remember playing Angelina in the early days of Paradise Poker short handed limit hold'em. Angelina was the first star of internet poker.

Did anyone discover if Angelina really existed? Or was she just a character invented by Izmet?




http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...e.com&hl=en




Here is a million dolar question . Who do you think is the guy on the video?


DISCLAIMER:
Million will be paid in play money chips sometime in not so near future.


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benlj21
old hand


Reged: 09/20/05
Posts: 709
Re: Just an FYI [Re: MitkoMatko]
      #9657421 - 03/22/07 06:40 AM

Sorry guys, in the past three days I've gone from somewhat winning low limit NL cash + tournament player to obsessive SHLHE player and Ljubjana researcher. i found this rgp post. rgp post, Michael Hall=Abdul Jalib M'Hall?
Also, it is very apparent that Abdul/Michael Hall does not like Mason at all, and Mason doesn't appear to be to fond of him, even if he may not admit it or comment on it openly. For those who weren't here/don't know, Abdul was banned from 2+2, and it's hard to say why. He was against the censorship, as he said. I'm not sure what his exact beef was or how warranted it was.
More to follow. I'd really like to know more about:
The Slovenian thinktank
The Fekalis (I think there is at least one real Fekali but I have no clue. some of their website is obviously fabricated. but izmet's blog is curiously well-kept.)
DERB/good LAG strategy


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benlj21
old hand


Reged: 09/20/05
Posts: 709
Re: Just an FYI [Re: benlj21]
      #9657473 - 03/22/07 06:55 AM

rgp post about 2+2 censorship

some good articles by Abdul
Note the "deviations from S&M" at the end of some of the articles. Interesting arguments.

Abdul's rgp post in blog form

HDouble's blog entry to Sgt. Rock's articles and lots of goodies

I dont want to spam to thats all for now, let me know if anyone finds this stuff interesting.

Edited by benlj21 (03/22/07 07:12 AM)


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Bibmo
stranger


Reged: 03/22/07
Posts: 1
Re: Just an FYI [Re: benlj21]
      #9662632 - 03/22/07 03:04 PM

Ok People! I see this subject it giving you a hard time. And i decided to help you guys out!

Ok. Im from Slovenia, Ljubljana. And Izmet Fekali is acctuly Jonas Žnidarši&#269; (Znidarsic). A Slovenian actor and "Its good to be a Millionar" host. He rudn hes own blog at http://jonas.blog.siol.net. There in his FAQ section it sais:

"Slišal sem, da obvladaš. Kje naj se nau&#269;im igrati poker?

S kartami se resneje ukvarja brat dvoj&#269;ek, pobrskaj po njegovem blogu. Nekaj kartaških knjig pa boš našel tudi tu, naštetih v kategoriji “Karte“."

Translation:
I heard you are good in poker? Where can I learn to play it?

Acctully my "twin brother" plays poker. Go search his blog. You will find some card learning books in the catagory "Karte".

Here is a direct link to the FAQ sections. Click on "brat dvojcek" - what meens twin brother and you will se where the link directs you

http://jonas.blog.siol.net/faq/#footnote-link-2-439


In conclusion Izmet Fekali is Jonas Znidarsic


Edited by Bibmo (03/22/07 03:07 PM)


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Arenas
stranger


Reged: 02/05/07
Posts: 4
Re: Just an FYI [Re: Bibmo]
      #9663646 - 03/22/07 04:10 PM

@Bibmo

Oh, man. You're so smart......


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MitkoMatko
stranger


Reged: 01/28/07
Posts: 23
Loc: Donking cash avay on party
Re: Just an FYI [Re: Arenas]
      #9663772 - 03/22/07 04:17 PM

Quote:

@Bibmo

Oh, man. You're so smart......




yup he is a fu*king genius. I wonder if he figured out that all by himself.


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Lurker.
Lurker for GBBV Mod


Reged: 01/16/07
Posts: 5622
Loc: May your pain be champagne
Re: Just an FYI [Re: MitkoMatko]
      #9664272 - 03/22/07 04:42 PM

i thought Ljubljuna was a multi tabler at the ten twenty level at ftp?

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benlj21
old hand


Reged: 09/20/05
Posts: 709
Re: Just an FYI [Re: Bibmo]
      #9667168 - 03/22/07 08:02 PM

Quote:

Ok People! I see this subject it giving you a hard time. And i decided to help you guys out!

Ok. Im from Slovenia, Ljubljana. And Izmet Fekali is acctuly Jonas Žnidarši&#269; (Znidarsic). A Slovenian actor and "Its good to be a Millionar" host. He rudn hes own blog at http://jonas.blog.siol.net. There in his FAQ section it sais:

"Slišal sem, da obvladaš. Kje naj se nau&#269;im igrati poker?

S kartami se resneje ukvarja brat dvoj&#269;ek, pobrskaj po njegovem blogu. Nekaj kartaških knjig pa boš našel tudi tu, naštetih v kategoriji “Karte“."

Translation:
I heard you are good in poker? Where can I learn to play it?

Acctully my "twin brother" plays poker. Go search his blog. You will find some card learning books in the catagory "Karte".

Here is a direct link to the FAQ sections. Click on "brat dvojcek" - what meens twin brother and you will se where the link directs you

http://jonas.blog.siol.net/faq/#footnote-link-2-439


In conclusion Izmet Fekali is Jonas Znidarsic





wow, thanks. this makes sense bc i saw a blog entry about how americans messed up who wants to be a millionaire. it was a long post about the history, etc. awesome.


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Emperor
veteran


Reged: 02/03/03
Posts: 1446
Loc: Ron Paul '08
Re: Just an FYI [Re: benlj21]
      #9931853 - 04/13/07 02:10 AM

Just found this thread

I used to post on 2+2 back when Abdul Jalib (yes that is an alias) used to post here and on BJ21.

I was unaware that Abdul got banned from 2+2. The rumor back then was that he had crippled his bankroll when he ran bad counting cards. (He played an absolute crapload of blackjack and was blacklisted at every LV casino supposedly. He often would talk of wearing disguises to keep from getting caught.) So after crippling his bankroll he was forced to grind at limits lower than he was used to, and I assumed stopped posting out of embarassment.

Izmet and Angelina had separate accounts on Paradise. (So I'm not sure about the rumors that they are the same person) They also have completely different writing styles. (So I doubt the rumor) I would often watch Izmet and Abdul play HU on Paradise back in the day.

Sorry to bump this thread, but these were the "famous" internet players back in the day, and it is all very interesting.


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mookboi
old hand


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 814
Loc: Fitty NL
Re: Just an FYI [Re: Emperor]
      #9936589 - 04/13/07 12:57 PM

Are there any other lurkers out there, who are totally like "WTF?"

Maybe it'd help if I clicked on the links.


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Othello
journeyman


Reged: 10/22/05
Posts: 93
Loc: The Muck
Re: Just an FYI [Re: mookboi]
      #9937216 - 04/13/07 01:44 PM

Quote:

Are there any other lurkers out there, who are totally like "WTF?"

Maybe it'd help if I clicked on the links.




You are not alone.


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SuperSnort
old hand


Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 748
Loc: banroll demanagement
Re: Just an FYI [Re: Othello]
      #13079011 - 11/22/07 09:45 PM

i read the first page, and google loads, and still have little clue whats going on!!! cliff notes please!!!!! is this guy supposedly got a pattern mapper, i know its about dont ever run bad or somthing

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MaxWeiss
old hand


Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 1087
Loc: Henderson, NV
Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: stigmata]
      #13211733 - 12/02/07 03:41 AM

Bumping for upgrade.

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thatpfunk
Carpal \'Tunnel


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Re: The Ljubljana Conspiracy. [Re: MaxWeiss]
      #13212043 - 12/02/07 04:00 AM

love this thread.

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