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General Poker Discussion >> Books and Publications

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trojanrabbit
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New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone
      #10794332 - 06/14/07 09:15 PM

I figure it should be cool for me to post this here since 2+2 has been my stomping grounds for a couple of years.

I wanted to announce that I have a new book coming in the next few months, along with Kill Phil authors Lee Nelson and Kim Lee. The new book is called Kill Everyone and is much more than a sequel to Kill Phil. While Kill Phil features long ball strategies, Kill Everyone focuses on small ball and advanced techniques for MTTís, SNGís, and satellites.

Weíve also got a bonus chapter by Mark Vos on 6-max NLHE cash game strategy.

This has been a big project for me and Iím very pleased with how it turned out. It has a ton of cool stuff in it that has never been seen before in print. And if youíre familiar with my work from the 2+2 Magazine, you know it will have nice graphs and charts explaining advanced concepts in an easy to understand manner.

Tysen Streib


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curious123
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #10794775 - 06/14/07 09:57 PM

Can't wait, T. Cool that you're working w/ Kim.

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uDevil
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: curious123]
      #10795709 - 06/14/07 11:02 PM

Interesting. Not enough info. Spill.

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r1base14
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #10801013 - 06/15/07 04:18 PM

Timeline for publishing?

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bigdaddydrew
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: r1base14]
      #10802021 - 06/15/07 06:07 PM

Tip 1 from Mark Vos, buy in for 1 Big Blind?

That said, I am very intrigued.


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BigBuffet
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #10804980 - 06/15/07 10:47 PM

I heard Mason is working on a new book "Kill Snyder"...

Sorry, couldn't resist


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JJay1231
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #10807123 - 06/16/07 03:10 AM

excellent. I thought Kill Phil was a good book that could have been a great book, hopefully this fills in the gaps. But in reality I think there is enough "small ball" info in books these days (Harrington etc), so Im not sure how valuable it will be in that respect. But advanced concepts for satellites and SnG's is a welcome addition to Poker literature as there really isn't much (if anything) written on those topics at the moment.

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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: uDevil]
      #10814957 - 06/16/07 10:59 PM

Quote:

Interesting. Not enough info. Spill.



Can't give all that much detail right now, but you remember those Prego commercials? "It's in there."

Lots of stuff from the analysis of all different prize structures and how that affects play to many different techniques for chip accumulation.

Timeline looks like a few months. I'll give more info when I can.

Tysen


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BackedUp
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #10825637 - 06/17/07 09:26 PM

Quote:

Weíve also got a bonus chapter by Mark Vos on 6-max NLHE cash game strategy.




LOL

Glad to see you have a sense of humor


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7n7
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: JJay1231]
      #10826053 - 06/17/07 09:59 PM

Quote:

I think there is enough "small ball" info in books




Not I.

On another note, Kill 'Em All sounds better but Metallica woulda' sued.


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JJay1231
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: 7n7]
      #10827102 - 06/17/07 11:15 PM

(LOL have that one in my collection )

I cant see anything new that can be added regarding small ball, but ill be looking forward to it anyway.


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Gildwulf
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #10831787 - 06/18/07 10:07 AM

umm....you might want to consider a new title

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paulish
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Gildwulf]
      #10972182 - 06/28/07 10:14 AM

Fantastic! I love your articles Tyson and I've been waiting for a book for a long time....

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TheDna
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: paulish]
      #10973225 - 06/28/07 11:48 AM

Kill Phil was a nice read and i found the book title interesting and it made some sense.
Kill Everyone sounds more like a book about running amok, really think about that title. There are alot of "killing poker" "Kill the game" etc books out there mostly total trash you should find something better to differ from the trash books :/


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MASTERHOLMES
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: TheDna]
      #10994889 - 06/29/07 08:04 PM

I would agree in changing the title as the first one was about destroying the small ball tactics of the phils in tourment play.

Here you are going to be teaching small ball as opposed to the long ball of kill phil so a differnt focus should be used.

how about "save phil" or "new school poker" or how about "phil is dead, long live phil "
for me I Been looking for a small ball book for a long time,
have you looked at the small ball section of daniel negrenu dvd to see if his concept of small ball and yours match up ?.
I would be sure the theories would be the same but the application would be differnt ?.

am I safe to assume that it would be focused on cash games, and no limit hold them for the most part?.
or it would it be a section on there on how to be a phil in tourments as well?.

and finally will it have a section on there on how to defend against "kill phil" tactics!!!


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RobertJohn
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: MASTERHOLMES]
      #10998212 - 06/30/07 01:28 AM

Quote:

But in reality I think there is enough "small ball" info in books these days




Quote:

I cant see anything new that can be added regarding small ball




I think you guys are way wrong on this one. There still is a lot yet to be written about tournament tactics (esp. in the middle/late stages where a lot of weird stack scenarios come up).

Tysen, Iíve enjoyed your articles in the 2+2 magazine and canít wait for a book-length treatment of some of the subjects youíve gone over.

Very stoked!


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892King
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #11001965 - 06/30/07 12:54 PM

Quote:

Weíve also got a bonus chapter by Mark Vos on 6-max NLHE cash game strategy.




no offense, but isn't it Hit N Run?


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derosnec
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #11002433 - 06/30/07 01:47 PM

all this long ball, small ball stuff is silly

just put opponent on a range, think of range he puts you on, consider pot/stack size, and play acordingly.


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MASTERHOLMES
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #11596012 - 08/09/07 05:08 AM

is there an update to when this book is coming out?

I been wiating for some info on it, the last two weeks:)


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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: MASTERHOLMES]
      #11622019 - 08/10/07 10:26 PM

Quote:

is there an update to when this book is coming out?

I been wiating for some info on it, the last two weeks:)



Exact date is not fixed, but it looks like early September is likely.

Tysen


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MASTERHOLMES
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #11880493 - 08/30/07 08:54 AM

it says on amazon that the title release date is january o8,
that is about october,november, december, and january ,, four months from the september release date.

is the work finished?
holy cow 348 pages?, is that because of the intricies of small ball approach?.

I noticed advanced strategies for sit-n-goes if "for no limit 'em poker tourament" is taken about in between.
would that means that half of the book is seperated between between tourament and sit-n-goes? or these concepts like in the kill phil book can be applied to both??.

and finally because of the sit-n-goes strategies would it address some, or any issues that you may have had with the two plus two book "sit'n go strategy"?.

also I am interested in what you personally Tysen Streib bring to the table in this kill everyone title, and how it is that you came on board.
(i am guessing it is something to do with your post flop, turn and river skills ?) ehhe

I am only asking these question in depth for I liked the kill phil book so much.


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curious123
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: MASTERHOLMES]
      #11881338 - 08/30/07 10:57 AM

Quote:

it says on amazon that the title release date is january o8





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AceMason
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: BackedUp]
      #11890059 - 08/30/07 10:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Weíve also got a bonus chapter by Mark Vos on 6-max NLHE cash game strategy.




LOL

Glad to see you have a sense of humor




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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: MASTERHOLMES]
      #11905077 - 09/01/07 12:47 AM

Quote:

it says on amazon that the title release date is january o8




That's not right. We're done and it's at the printers. I'd be really surprised if it's not out by the end of September.

Quote:

holy cow 348 pages?, is that because of the intricies of small ball approach?




We got a ton of stuff in it. You will not be disappointed. Steven Brust once said that there are 4 types of books: popcorn, steak, caviar, and celery. Although he was talking about fiction writing, I definitely see this as steak. And a big olí slab too.

Quote:

would that means that half of the book is seperated between between tourament and sit-n-goes? or these concepts like in the kill phil book can be applied to both??.




A vast majority of the book has strategies that apply to all tournament types. But there are several sections that give specific advice for SNGís, MTTís, and satellites.

Quote:

and finally because of the sit-n-goes strategies would it address some, or any issues that you may have had with the two plus two book "sit'n go strategy"?




I only just started reading Moshmanís book, so I canít really comment on that. Iím sure youíll get value out of both.

Quote:

also I am interested in what you personally Tysen Streib bring to the table in this kill everyone title, and how it is that you came on board.
(i am guessing it is something to do with your post flop, turn and river skills ?) ehhe




Actually it was more for my math and game theory skills. My specialties are in calculating optimal solutions and in how the payout structure should affect your strategy. Iíve written a lot of popular articles in the 2+2 magazine and Lee was impressed with my work here. He was thinking of writing another book, liked my style, and was wondering if Iíd like to work with him on his next project. And thus the team was born.

Quote:

I am only asking these question in depth for I liked the kill phil book so much.




No problem. I need to be posting more here anyway now that the work is done.

Tysen


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Borknagar
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #11929384 - 09/03/07 07:46 AM

Could you give us like an index/chapters list?

did you keep the title? I hope not.


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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Borknagar]
      #11952833 - 09/04/07 11:54 PM

Quote:

Could you give us like an index/chapters list?



Part One: Early-Stage Play
1 New School versus Old School
2 Specific Guidelines for Accumulating Chips (Big chapter w/ lots of goodies)

Part Two: Endgame Strategy
3 Basic Endgame Concepts
4 Equilibrium Plays
5 Kill Phil: The Next Generation
6 Prize Pools and Equities
7 Specific Strategies for Different Tournament Types
8 Short-Handed and Heads-Up Play
9 Detailed Analysis of a Professional SNG

Part Three: Other Topics
10 Adjustments to Recent Changes in No-Limit Hold íEm Tournaments
11 Tournament Luck
12 Playing Against Better Players
13 Tells and Reads
14 Tournament Preparation

Part Four: Online Short-Handed No-Limit Hold íEm Cash Games


Quote:

did you keep the title? I hope not.



Yeah, we did. We debated a bit about it, and I don't think it's so bad.

Tysen


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curious123
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #11956010 - 09/05/07 07:34 AM

T, what will be the quickest way to get a hold of this, through HP?

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dirty banana2007
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: curious123]
      #11959395 - 09/05/07 01:39 PM

Damn! and here i was thinking my list of books-to-get was finally sealed!...along comes another must have book!

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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: curious123]
      #11967692 - 09/05/07 11:24 PM

Quote:

T, what will be the quickest way to get a hold of this, through HP?



Probably a safe bet


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daveT
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #11979503 - 09/06/07 08:11 PM

You should have called it "Kill Phil (Ivey)," but he probably would have the same sense of humor about it.

Did you guys get to meet Phil Hellmuth? What was he like? There's not much you can say to tarnish his image, you know.


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Professionalpoker
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #11980506 - 09/06/07 09:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

T, what will be the quickest way to get a hold of this, through HP?



Probably a safe bet



I can think of one supplier that will have it within a day of HP and they participate in the forums!


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MASTERHOLMES
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Professionalpoker]
      #12021034 - 09/10/07 07:06 AM

hail.

i noticed amazon moved the date to sept 30 instead of next year..
yay.

i want an advanced review as quick as possible please when it comes out,
(so i will know if it is better then kill phil, or at least just as good).


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Professionalpoker
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: MASTERHOLMES]
      #12042602 - 09/11/07 05:18 PM

Just spoke to the publisher and scored a cover photo and back cover text. I am told we are about 4 weeks away.
Linky


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JJay1231
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Professionalpoker]
      #12051026 - 09/12/07 06:16 AM

how long does it usually take for PP to deliver to Australia?

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Adman
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: JJay1231]
      #12051220 - 09/12/07 07:35 AM

They are VERY fast. I've ordered a few things from them. Faster than Amazon that's for sure.

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TheDna
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Adman]
      #12058191 - 09/12/07 07:30 PM

damn the capters sound good will get this one so much to read atm ..

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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: TheDna]
      #12062175 - 09/13/07 12:51 AM

It looks like Lee posted a more detailed TOC over at the Kill Phil site, so I guess I can post that here too. The page numbers refer to the manuscript, the book itself has 348 pages.

Introduction 1

Part 1: Early Stage Play 4
Chapter 1: Accumulating Chips 5
Play a lot of Speculative Hands Early 8
Playing Tight Early to Establish an Image 9
The Big Move 9
Know the Odds 10
Fold Equity 12
Fear Equity 14
Winning a lot of Small Pots 16
Winning a Few Big Pots 17
The Threat of the Set 20
Bet Sizing of Bluffs and Monsters 23
Optimal Bet/Bluff Sizing 25
The Scandinavian Mini-Raise Bluff 27
The Blocking Bet 29
Making Big Laydowns 30
Chapter 2: Specific Guidelines for Accumulating Chips 33
Ten Pointers for Building Your Stack 33


Part 2: End Game Strategy 43
Introduction 44
Chapter 3: Basic Endgame Concepts 45
Looking at Your Stack: CPR and CSI 45
Changing Your Play with CSI 46
Playing the Normal Stage 49
Playing the Semi-Aggressive Stage 49
Playing the Aggressive Stage 50
Playing the Move-in Stage 53
Playing the Special Stage 54
Differences in Hand Values For Raising Versus Calling 56
Chapter 4: Equilibrium Plays 59
Equilibrium Plays: A Word About the Math 59
An Introduction to Equilibrium Play 60
Equilibrium Play: Moving in Far From the Money 65
Using the Equilibrium Solution in Practice: The Power Number 67
When Your Opponents Donít Play Optimally 69
Chapter 5: Kill Phil: The Next Generation 70
Long Ball vs. Small Ball 70
Big Pushes on the Flop 72
Chapter 6: Prize Pools and Equities 76
How the Prize Structure Affects Your Decisions 76
Calculating Prize Pool EV 78
Do I Really Need to Worry About This Non-Linearity? 81
Is It Getting Bubbly In Here? 82
Bubble Factors in SNGís 84
How the Hell Am I Supposed to Calculate These Factors? 86
Bubble Factors in Super Satellites 91
Bubble Factors in MTTís 92
Bubble Factors: Putting It All Together 95
Calling All-In Raises 100
Calling with Pocket Deuces 104
Chapter 7: Specific Strategies for Different Tournament Types 105
Introduction 105
Specific Strategies for SNGís: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bubble 107
Bubble Play in SNGís 108
Equilibrium Steals From the Button on the Bubble 109
Exploitive Steals From the Button on the Bubble 112
How Often Do Players Raise? 115
Advanced SNG Tactic: Keeping the Small Stack Alive 116
Specific Strategies for Multi-Table Tournaments: Predators vs. Prey 116
Multi-Table Tournaments: the Final Table 119
Specific Strategies for Super Satellites: How to Fold Your Way Into Easy Money 120
Chapter 8: Short-Handed and Heads-up Play 125
Short-Handed Play with Deeper Stacks 125
Heads-Up Play 128
Heads-Up For the Move-in Stage 129
What About Raises Smaller Than All-in? 132
Heads-Up With Deeper Stacks 136
Chapter 9: Detailed Analysis of a Professional SNG 141
The Full Tilt Monte Carlo Invitational 141
Monte Carlo Invitational: Summary 163

Part 3: Other Topics 164
Chapter 10: Adjustments to Recent Changes in No-limit HoldíEm Tournaments 165
Steal from Under-the-Gun (UTG) 165
Be Prepared to Sometimes Re-re-Steal 165
The UTG Limp/Re-raise 166
Limping with Big Hands When Short-stacked 169
Check/Raise Semi-Bluff on the Turn 169
Picking Off Continuation Bets 170
Sizing Bets to Put Your Opponentís Stack at Risk 171
Using Bet Sizing to Deprive Players of Fold Equity 172
Chapter 11: Tournament Luck 173
Chapter 12: Playing Against Better Players 176
Kill Phil Style 176
Countering Aggression with Aggression 177
Keep Fold Equity on Your Side 180
Have the Courage of Your Convictions 181
Playing Against ďHyper-LAGsĒ 185
Defending Against the Hyper-LAG 186
Chapter 13: Tells and Reads 189
Chip Tells 189
All-in Tells 192
Physical Tells 196
Reverse Tells 198
Moves to Induce a Call or Fold 199
Chapter 14: Tournament Preparation
Overcoming Jet Lag 202
Diet and Supplements for Cognitive Enhancement 204
Zen and Poker 206
I-Pod or Not? 207


Part 4: Online Short-handed No-limit Holdíem cash Games 210
Chapter 15: Online Short-handed No-limit Holdíem Cash Games 211
Introduction 211
Pre-flop 212
The Flop 219
Turn Play 222
River Play 225
Bankroll Management 229
Multi-tabling 230
Online Poker Tools 231

Appendices
Appendix 1: Equilibrium Solution for Moving in Far from the Money 234
Appendix 2: Equilibrium Calling Strategies for Far from the Money 237
Appendix 3: Assumed Rank Order for Pushing Hands 240
Appendix 4: Assumed Rank Order for Calling Hands 241
Appendix 5: Limitations of ICM 242


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deacsoftModerator
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12074228 - 09/13/07 08:38 PM

In the future please provide a link to that kind of information rather than posting it here. Thanks.

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MyTurn2Raise
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12113495 - 09/17/07 01:23 AM

that TOC just blew my mind

cannot believe most of that stuff will be in print on a non-internet forum form of media

hopefully, this book isn't that popular


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Shandrax
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: MyTurn2Raise]
      #12115102 - 09/17/07 04:52 AM

Two things:

A. Sorry Tysen, but that title qualifies for most terrible book title ever and I hope it wasn't designed to appeal to a certain target group of players (uneducated macho type)

B. What I never understood about game theory in Hold'em was that a correct calling frequency also means that you have to have a bluffcatcher a certain amount of times. In contrast to draw poker where most examples for game theory come from, it's tough to make a hand in Hold'em, even a bluffcatcher, and very often the opponent is bluffing with the best hand. Let's say your math tells you that you are required to call in x% of the cases, but your mix of hands has you fold most small pairs on the flop and take a lot of busted draws to the river, so in many cases you don't even have a hand to call with. Are you adressing such things in the book?

The obvious solution would be to either take more low pairs or less draws to the river. In each case though, it would mean making a -EV play on the respective hand. Well, I guess that is what ballancing is all about after all...


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fraac
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #12117176 - 09/17/07 10:41 AM

Kill Everyone is a great name. It's been my motto for years.

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Shandrax
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: fraac]
      #12130576 - 09/18/07 04:26 AM

What does this tell us about you?

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fraac
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #12133065 - 09/18/07 10:58 AM

I want to kill everyone.

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Gildwulf
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: fraac]
      #12135350 - 09/18/07 02:16 PM

Quote:

Kill Everyone is a great name. It's been my motto for years.




can you imagine reading this book on the subway or the bus? I hope that it says the title in big letters.


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Gallopin Gael
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Gildwulf]
      #12138287 - 09/18/07 05:27 PM

Is this big enough?

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Professionalpoker
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Gallopin Gael]
      #12138409 - 09/18/07 05:35 PM

Quote:

Is this big enough?



lol @ linking to my image. Its cool.
Mike


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Borknagar
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Professionalpoker]
      #12140189 - 09/18/07 07:37 PM

I hate the title, but it looks GOOD on that cover!! I have to take my earlier remarks back mr. Streib, good work.

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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #12144105 - 09/19/07 12:44 AM

Quote:

What I never understood about game theory in Hold'em was that a correct calling frequency also means that you have to have a bluffcatcher a certain amount of times. In contrast to draw poker where most examples for game theory come from, it's tough to make a hand in Hold'em, even a bluffcatcher, and very often the opponent is bluffing with the best hand. Let's say your math tells you that you are required to call in x% of the cases, but your mix of hands has you fold most small pairs on the flop and take a lot of busted draws to the river, so in many cases you don't even have a hand to call with. Are you adressing such things in the book?




I'm not really sure I'm understanding your question correctly, but I don't see how you think you would have gotten to the river with a distribution that has no calling hands. Maybe you can come up with a concrete example?

Tysen


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Gallopin Gael
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Professionalpoker]
      #12144428 - 09/19/07 01:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is this big enough?



lol @ linking to my image. Its cool.
Mike




But you've got the only one out there.



And if you're ship time is as quick as it was for PNL I'm definitely ordering from you again, even if I do have to pay for shipping (as opposed to amazon prime).

Also, word from Hunington Press HQ is late Oct for the release date.


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MyTurn2Raise
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Gallopin Gael]
      #12152904 - 09/19/07 04:34 PM

I've put in my pre-order


gogogogogogogogogo


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Shandrax
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12153763 - 09/19/07 05:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What I never understood about game theory in Hold'em was that a correct calling frequency also means that you have to have a bluffcatcher a certain amount of times. In contrast to draw poker where most examples for game theory come from, it's tough to make a hand in Hold'em, even a bluffcatcher, and very often the opponent is bluffing with the best hand. Let's say your math tells you that you are required to call in x% of the cases, but your mix of hands has you fold most small pairs on the flop and take a lot of busted draws to the river, so in many cases you don't even have a hand to call with. Are you adressing such things in the book?




I'm not really sure I'm understanding your question correctly, but I don't see how you think you would have gotten to the river with a distribution that has no calling hands. Maybe you can come up with a concrete example?

Tysen




Let's say I get 4:1 odds for a call on the river. If I remember correctly then game theory says that I am supposed to call 75% of the time. I simply find it very hard to play a distribution that contains 75% hands with showdown value. Very often I am sitting on a busted draw like 6-5s or Q-To and even if fold all these and decide to call with any pair or even any ace to make up for it, I'll still be way below 75%.

I know that Chen/Ankenman write in Math of Poker that calling frequencies change a lot on multi-street games because of draws, but for the sake of the argument, let's just assume it was a dry board and a way ahead/way behind situation all the way.


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chucky
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #12153949 - 09/19/07 06:05 PM

4 to 1 pot odds means call if you expect to win hand at least 20% of time. So, if you have 6 high on river you probably shouldnt call because you wont win 20% of time.

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fraac
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #12154132 - 09/19/07 06:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What I never understood about game theory in Hold'em was that a correct calling frequency also means that you have to have a bluffcatcher a certain amount of times. In contrast to draw poker where most examples for game theory come from, it's tough to make a hand in Hold'em, even a bluffcatcher, and very often the opponent is bluffing with the best hand. Let's say your math tells you that you are required to call in x% of the cases, but your mix of hands has you fold most small pairs on the flop and take a lot of busted draws to the river, so in many cases you don't even have a hand to call with. Are you adressing such things in the book?




I'm not really sure I'm understanding your question correctly, but I don't see how you think you would have gotten to the river with a distribution that has no calling hands. Maybe you can come up with a concrete example?

Tysen




Let's say I get 4:1 odds for a call on the river. If I remember correctly then game theory says that I am supposed to call 75% of the time. I simply find it very hard to play a distribution that contains 75% hands with showdown value. Very often I am sitting on a busted draw like 6-5s or Q-To and even if fold all these and decide to call with any pair or even any ace to make up for it, I'll still be way below 75%.

I know that Chen/Ankenman write in Math of Poker that calling frequencies change a lot on multi-street games because of draws, but for the sake of the argument, let's just assume it was a dry board and a way ahead/way behind situation all the way.




Isn't this a problem with tenses? By Chen and Ankenman you should have called 75%, rather than should call 75%.


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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: chucky]
      #12155730 - 09/19/07 08:30 PM

Quote:

4 to 1 pot odds means call if you expect to win hand at least 20% of time. So, if you have 6 high on river you probably shouldnt call because you wont win 20% of time.



Yeah, when you're facing a distribution of hands, this is how you should think about it. Pot odds dictate that you should be calling with hands that have a certain chance of winning, not that you should call a certain % of the time.

The situation you're thinking of when you need to call a certain % of the time is when you've got a made hand and he has a draw that will miss sometimes. You need to call with the made hand a certain % of the time so you won't be taken advantage of when he misses his draw and bluffs. Note that the % could be 0 or 100, depending on the pot odds and how likely you think it is he hit his draw. But thereís no need to call with a busted draw. Thatís not part of this scenario.

Tysen


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Shandrax
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12161296 - 09/20/07 04:27 AM

Made hand vs. draw is where my example comes from. Actually I got the whole theory from Nesmith Ankenys book about draw poker. The problem for me always was the application of these basic concepts in Hold'em.

I give you an example for a 2:1 situation for a potsize raise where you need to win 33% to break even. Let's assume you start with unpaired cards. The chances that you have a made hand by the river are in the 60% range. That means in 40% of the cases you got nothing and can fold to a river bet right off the bat. In the other 60% of the cases, you may have bottom pair with maybe 2 high cards on board or other scary situations. Still from these 60% of your hands you need to win 55% just to break even, simply because you folded 40% of your hands already. Your remaing made hands are the ones where your wins have to come from and 33% as indicated above won't be enough. This is why I have a problem with the common assumption that you need to win just enough to cover the potodds with your made hand to do fine.

Many times both players don't have a hand and you cannot just give up in these situations only because your opponent has the courage to bet. With not giving up I don't mean to call him with trash, but to lower your standards for calling with made hands to compensate for it. It may sound paradox, or maybe I am simply wrong.


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Wubbie075
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #12204642 - 09/23/07 02:15 PM

my local Barnes & Noble told me today this book is not out til January.. is that true??

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Upright Bill
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Wubbie075]
      #12204818 - 09/23/07 02:34 PM

October 20 is the currently expected date.

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RowdyZ
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Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: Upright Bill]
      #12204985 - 09/23/07 02:49 PM

I got email from amazon.com saying the book would be out Sept 30th.
Quote:


Rodney,

We've noticed that customers who have purchased or rated Sit 'n Go Strategy by Collin Moshman have also purchased Kill Everyone: Advanced Strategies for No-Limit Hold 'em Poker Tournaments and Sit-N-Go's by Lee Nelson M.D.. For this reason, you might like to know that Kill Everyone: Advanced Strategies for No-Limit Hold 'em Poker Tournaments and Sit-N-Go's will be released on September 30, 2007. You can pre-order yours at a savings of $10.18 by following the link below.

Kill Everyone: Advanced Strategies for No-Limit Hold 'em Poker Tournaments and Sit-N-Go's
Lee Nelson M.D.
List Price: $29.95
Price: $19.77
You Save: $10.18 (34%)

Release Date: September 30, 2007




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trojanrabbit
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: RowdyZ]
      #12217226 - 09/24/07 12:17 PM

The date keeps getting pushed back. There was a small problem getting all my detailed charts and graphs to look good in the book format. I think the Oct 20 date looks like the most likely.

Tysen


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HajiShirazu
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12249932 - 09/26/07 04:23 PM

I didn't think Kill Phil was all that great (although it's a beginner book and was good for that purpose) but anyway, looking at the TOC, if the content of this book is decent at all it makes me very unhappy because SNG's are going to get a lot worse.

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tangerine
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: HajiShirazu]
      #12392322 - 10/06/07 10:55 PM

Tried to do pre-order on Amazon. It shows
Estimated ship date for this item: December 5, 2007

So it is not Oct. 20?


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trojanrabbit
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: tangerine]
      #12410233 - 10/08/07 12:13 PM

Quote:

Tried to do pre-order on Amazon. It shows
Estimated ship date for this item: December 5, 2007

So it is not Oct. 20?




I don't know where Amazon gets their dates. I just talked to the publisher. The books just got loaded onto a truck and are starting a week-long trip from the printers to the publishers. So they will have them in hand in 1 week. Don't know how long it will take them to pass them along to Amazon, but it won't be December. Late October still looks right.

Tysen


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Professionalpoker
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12410480 - 10/08/07 12:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Tried to do pre-order on Amazon. It shows
Estimated ship date for this item: December 5, 2007

So it is not Oct. 20?




I don't know where Amazon gets their dates. I just talked to the publisher. The books just got loaded onto a truck and are starting a week-long trip from the printers to the publishers. So they will have them in hand in 1 week. Don't know how long it will take them to pass them along to Amazon, but it won't be December. Late October still looks right.

Tysen




Good news! As soon as Huntington gets them I'll drive over and pick up my stocking order.
Mike


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Wubbie075
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: Professionalpoker]
      #12411571 - 10/08/07 02:01 PM

Quote:

As soon as Huntington gets them I'll drive over and pick up my stocking order.
Mike




Sweet! Let us all know when you get them!


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Wubbie075
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: Wubbie075]
      #12515597 - 10/15/07 06:15 PM

any news?

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Professionalpoker
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: Wubbie075]
      #12526865 - 10/16/07 01:00 PM

Huntington has them and will deliver a case to my office by this afternoon so orders will mail out tomorrow!
Mike


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Wubbie075
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: Professionalpoker]
      #12542104 - 10/17/07 12:49 PM

grrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!! I have a gift card for a local bookstore but they said the release date isn't til January and they do not have the cabability to order it before then!!

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Professionalpoker
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: Wubbie075]
      #12549829 - 10/17/07 09:43 PM

I have it!

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mshalen
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: Professionalpoker]
      #12571264 - 10/19/07 07:47 AM

My copy was waiting in my mail box when I got home yesterday afternoon. Next mission is to read and more important understand and apply some new concepts.

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funkymunky
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: mshalen]
      #12571885 - 10/19/07 09:35 AM

Quote:

My copy was waiting in my mail box when I got home yesterday afternoon. Next mission is to read and more important understand and apply some new concepts.




And maybe post a review?? Please?


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jase
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Re: Kill everyone - Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: funkymunky]
      #12572460 - 10/19/07 10:51 AM

I too had the book waiting on me when I got home. I've got about a third of the way through it and will post a review once done.

For now though, a shout out to Mike at professionalpoker.com. I'm on the east coast, ordered my copy mid-afternoon Wednesday and it arrived at my home 9am Thursday. Great service, Mike, thanks.


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mshalen
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: funkymunky]
      #12573757 - 10/19/07 12:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My copy was waiting in my mail box when I got home yesterday afternoon. Next mission is to read and more important understand and apply some new concepts.




And maybe post a review?? Please?




The book is 350 pages and I have both a company to run and a family I like to spend time with. Yes I'll post a review but jeez give me a few days to read, re-read and mull over the information before I make comments which once posted cannot be taken back or revised.


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RobertJohn
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Re: Amazon says Sept 30th [Re: mshalen]
      #12579212 - 10/19/07 08:18 PM

I skimmed through it and the material looks awesome.

However, I had a hard time interpreting the Unexploitable Resteal chart on pg. 72.

I'm assuming the left-most column is the opener's range, but what are the other two columns to the right?

I could be misreading it, but the chart seems to be off (unaligned?).


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trojanrabbit
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Resteal chart [Re: RobertJohn]
      #12588940 - 10/20/07 07:20 PM

Quote:

However, I had a hard time interpreting the Unexploitable Resteal chart on pg. 72.

I'm assuming the left-most column is the opener's range, but what are the other two columns to the right?




I don't have my hard copies yet, so I'm not sure how it looks, but you should read the opener's range along the top, not the first column. Read the effective stack size along the left and find opener's range on the top. Where they intersect is your unexploitable re-steal range. For example, with a CSI of 10, if opener's range is 77+,AQ+,ATs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs, you can unexploitably re-steal with 99+,AQ+,AJs+,KQs. Hope it makes sense now.

Tysen


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JJay1231
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Re: Resteal chart [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12591004 - 10/20/07 10:27 PM

what is the 6 max cash section of the book like? anyone?

I heard its a little "thin" and basically just a primer.....


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Gallopin Gael
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Re: Resteal chart [Re: JJay1231]
      #12598925 - 10/21/07 03:35 PM

Quote:

what is the 6 max cash section of the book like? anyone?

I heard its a little "thin" and basically just a primer.....




That's a fair assessment.


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trojanrabbit
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Available now at Amazon [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12629657 - 10/23/07 12:38 PM

Amazon's listing says "4-6 weeks" but that's wrong. They have it in stock and are shipping immediately. They should be updating their listing soon.

Also, there's a delivery on its way to PokerStars who will be carrying it in their store.

Tysen


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brendangukl
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12631803 - 10/23/07 02:49 PM

Any idea when it might be available in the UK? Amazon.co.uk have is listed for Jan 2008. Seems like a long wait for them to get any.

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dirty banana2007
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: brendangukl]
      #12631936 - 10/23/07 02:59 PM

Quote:

Any idea when it might be available in the UK? Amazon.co.uk have is listed for Jan 2008. Seems like a long wait for them to get any.




I would guess the next couple of weeks at the latest for Amazon uk.

Check the Highstakes website. They are a poker shop in London. They sent me an email today saying they would have copies available from the end of this week. They often have US new releases a week or two before Amazon uk.

Alternatively you could try Mike from Professional Poker, he seems to get books to people fairly quickly.


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brendangukl
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: dirty banana2007]
      #12632138 - 10/23/07 03:12 PM

Thanks for the pointer but £28 is a bit steep. I'll wait and see how much amazon.co.uk list it for. Has anyone finished reading it yet? Im interested what people think of it

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Pokerpun
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: brendangukl]
      #12635587 - 10/23/07 06:28 PM

Any Idea when it will be possible to get this book from PokerStars store?

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LeeNelson
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Pokerpun]
      #12637170 - 10/23/07 08:13 PM

Books have already been shipped to Poker Stars. They will be available for FPPs in the Poker Stars store. I estimate availability there in about 10 days to 2 weeks.

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shyturtle27
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: LeeNelson]
      #12637454 - 10/23/07 08:36 PM

What's the ETA on an f'ing review in here? Really would like to see if it's worth a buy.

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deacsoftModerator
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Pokerpun]
      #12640946 - 10/24/07 12:40 AM

Quote:

Any Idea when it will be possible to get this book from PokerStars store?




That would be up to the publisher and PokerStars. If you're interested in possibly obtaining it that way you should e-mail PokerStars and advise them of your interest.


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shyturtle27
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: deacsoft]
      #12651492 - 10/24/07 06:09 PM

So what's the ETA for this book getting to borders/barnes and noble stores?

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trojanrabbit
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: shyturtle27]
      #12653381 - 10/24/07 08:09 PM

Quote:

So what's the ETA for this book getting to borders/barnes and noble stores?



I'm not sure. That always seems to take longer than other methods, so I'd recommend ordering online.

Tysen


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trojanrabbit
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: shyturtle27]
      #12653413 - 10/24/07 08:11 PM

Quote:

What's the ETA on an f'ing review in here? Really would like to see if it's worth a buy.



I'd love to see a review too.


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shyturtle27
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12674464 - 10/26/07 12:53 AM

there's a reveiw up on amazon...sounds amazing. I've been looking for a resource that discusses early round chip accumulation...might just have to order this.

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h11
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12685811 - 10/26/07 07:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What's the ETA on an f'ing review in here? Really would like to see if it's worth a buy.



I'd love to see a review too.




I read most of it last night. It's good, too good. I hope no one else reads it.


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Deakon
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: h11]
      #12693342 - 10/27/07 02:25 PM

Hmm, wonder what's the deal with amazon. I ordered mine on the 20th and it says it still hasn't shipped. Why the hell can't they get their shipping information right?

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chucky
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Deakon]
      #12694507 - 10/27/07 04:13 PM

Quote:

Hmm, wonder what's the deal with amazon. I ordered mine on the 20th and it says it still hasn't shipped. Why the hell can't they get their shipping information right?




Amazon has not been runn well since Hercules stole Hippolyte's belt.


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JJay1231
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Deakon]
      #12696639 - 10/27/07 07:41 PM

Quote:

Hmm, wonder what's the deal with amazon. I ordered mine on the 20th and it says it still hasn't shipped. Why the hell can't they get their shipping information right?




thats Amazon for you. I stopped ordering from there for good. Try ordering from Professional Poker next time. My KE book was shipped on time and it arrived in a couple of days and I live in Oz. If it was Amazon, god knows when it would be shipped.

Edited by JJay1231 (10/27/07 07:48 PM)


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Deakon
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: JJay1231]
      #12696986 - 10/27/07 08:25 PM

Thanks for the headsup JJay, will do!

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h11
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Deakon]
      #12698489 - 10/27/07 11:15 PM

Quote:

Hmm, wonder what's the deal with amazon. I ordered mine on the 20th and it says it still hasn't shipped. Why the hell can't they get their shipping informatAion right?




I learned from the last two plus two book that amazon sends their preorders out very late. So this time I ordered my copy from a guy I saw posting here who said he had it right on his desk, ready to ship out, a guy named Mike. I got it within three days, tho the order form failed to let me have the option of getting it priority mail. I learned from the email confirmation from Mike that I had a choice of media mail or priority mail - too late. But I am so close to him that media mail was fast. So if you use him in the future - remember that you can email him to tell him to do it priority, I think. Or leave a note or something. Found him - Professional Poker.com. It's also nice to deal with a human, and one of our group, rather than a trillion dollar conglomerate. It is a really really good book, imo.


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Professionalpoker
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: h11]
      #12703585 - 10/28/07 12:58 PM

Thanks for the kind words. Our checkout for domestic orders now defaults to Priority mail and also offers media and express mail options.
Mike


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DOTTT
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Professionalpoker]
      #12704524 - 10/28/07 02:36 PM

Tysen,

The charts on pages 72 and 73 titled "Unexploitable Re-Steals Far From The Money" are unclear. What are the 3 colums for on pg 72, and what are the 2 colums on pg 73?


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Gallopin Gael
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: DOTTT]
      #12717988 - 10/29/07 12:05 PM

Quote:

Tysen,

The charts on pages 72 and 73 titled "Unexploitable Re-Steals Far From The Money" are unclear. What are the 3 colums for on pg 72, and what are the 2 colums on pg 73?




The top ranges (next to Your CSI) is the opponents range for the initial raise.

The ranges below that are the ranges that you can resteal with given a certain CSI.


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trojanrabbit
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Re-steal chart [Re: DOTTT]
      #12717995 - 10/29/07 12:06 PM

Quote:

The charts on pages 72 and 73 titled "Unexploitable Re-Steals Far From The Money" are unclear. What are the 3 colums for on pg 72, and what are the 2 colums on pg 73?




I finally got my hard copies, so I can see what the problem is. Yes, I know they are unclear. There is supposed to be a thick line between the second and third rows. If you look very closely you can see that the line is a bit thicker, but you essentially canít see the difference. If that line were thicker, it would be more obvious how to read the chart. Anyway, look a dozen or so posts up from here for an explanation for how to read it.

Tysen


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MyTurn2Raise
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Re: Re-steal chart [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12754410 - 10/31/07 06:32 PM

just got mine from amazon....it's fantastic

the best thing I can say is that even if you disagree with some of the recommendations and strategy, the book forces you to think about and evaluate the entire theory and strategy underlying your game


I'll have a more thorough review later, but I can say this is a great mental exercise all the way around

the book is dense and will take alot of time to work through


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shyturtle27
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Re: Re-steal chart [Re: MyTurn2Raise]
      #12756101 - 10/31/07 08:37 PM

Quote:

just got mine from amazon....it's fantastic

the best thing I can say is that even if you disagree with some of the recommendations and strategy, the book forces you to think about and evaluate the entire theory and strategy underlying your game


I'll have a more thorough review later, but I can say this is a great mental exercise all the way around

the book is dense and will take alot of time to work through




Sounds great. Mine will hopefully be here tomorrow. I saw that there is a HU strategy in it. Could you give me your review on that? Would it be applicable to HU SNG's?


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trojanrabbit
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Gallopin Gael]
      #12758524 - 10/31/07 11:58 PM

There's a nice 3-minute interview with Lee about Kill Everyone.

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Pokerpun
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12770370 - 11/01/07 07:44 PM

The book looks great - not sure about the guy interviewing Lee though.

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mshalen
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Pokerpun]
      #12776723 - 11/02/07 07:10 AM

Quote:

The book looks great - not sure about the guy interviewing Lee though.




Why? Just because I had to back away from the screen a few times due to thinking he was going to move/mombo/wiggle so far forward he was going to pop out of my monitor?


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checktowin
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: mshalen]
      #12785278 - 11/02/07 08:28 PM

its actually a pretty damn good book

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shyturtle27
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: checktowin]
      #12785645 - 11/02/07 08:59 PM

This book is amazing. I was not expecting the amount of math and theory that this book puts in front of me. I thought it would be a basic layout of tournament strategy with tight hand reccomendations for early rounds, etc., but it is so rich with just advanced theory that I was not prepared for. The re-steal chart is awesome. I really enjoyed the Mark Vos chapter on 6-max strategy for cash games. It is pretty much a basic TAG strategy, but goes in depth more than I expected about post flop play. Really good stuff all around. Good job, guys!

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finesseQ
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: shyturtle27]
      #12832952 - 11/06/07 12:48 PM

Holy fíing christ! How is this book not getting more love? Is it that no oneís reading it? I think this is by far the best poker book Iíve ever read and I immediately found things that help me with my game. It is so deep on so many levels and some of the things on bubble factors just blow my mind. This is the book I was hoping that the Math of Poker book was going to be. Kill everyone is actually USEFUL instead of just a bunch of toy games that you canít do anything with.

The Good: So many juicy nuggets that Iím sure will become standard lingo like ĎMí did after HOH. Fear equity, bubble factors and tournament odds just to name a few. I love that they show a ton of equilibrium plays as well as the best response against people who arenít playing equilibrium. The endgame section is the best part, but the other stuff is good too like how the game has changed in recent years with more allin bets and cbets too. The walkthrough of the pro SNG is eye opening.

The bad: I was hoping for a longer 6-max cash game section, but whatís there is decent. My only other complaint is that itís NOT an easy read, though that may actually be a good thing. I had to read most of it very slowly and then reread it a second time before some of it sunk in. Heavy stuff.

The ugly: That resteal chart is a nightmare to read like others have said. Itís got lots of georgeous charts and graphs, but that one is a dud.


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FookFuLohan
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: finesseQ]
      #12833240 - 11/06/07 01:10 PM

Quote:

Holy fíing christ! How is this book not getting more love? Is it that no oneís reading it? I think this is by far the best poker book Iíve ever read and I immediately found things that help me with my game. It is so deep on so many levels and some of the things on bubble factors just blow my mind. This is the book I was hoping that the Math of Poker book was going to be. Kill everyone is actually USEFUL instead of just a bunch of toy games that you canít do anything with.

The Good: So many juicy nuggets that Iím sure will become standard lingo like ĎMí did after HOH. Fear equity, bubble factors and tournament odds just to name a few. I love that they show a ton of equilibrium plays as well as the best response against people who arenít playing equilibrium. The endgame section is the best part, but the other stuff is good too like how the game has changed in recent years with more allin bets and cbets too. The walkthrough of the pro SNG is eye opening.

The bad: I was hoping for a longer 6-max cash game section, but whatís there is decent. My only other complaint is that itís NOT an easy read, though that may actually be a good thing. I had to read most of it very slowly and then reread it a second time before some of it sunk in. Heavy stuff.

The ugly: That resteal chart is a nightmare to read like others have said. Itís got lots of georgeous charts and graphs, but that one is a dud.




A lot of people like the book but as you said there is a lot of heavy info to digest and everyone is reading one chapter at a time once or twice then try it out instead of reading the whole book.

In regards to the resteal chart, the author who specifically written the chart explains here in this thread.

http://forums.lasvegasadvisor.com/messageview.cfm?catid=45&threadid=258338


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shyturtle27
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: FookFuLohan]
      #12833830 - 11/06/07 01:51 PM

Re-steal chart is far from a "dud" you just need to know how to read it. The top row is the opponent's initial raising range and there is a slightly thicker line beneath it to show it is seperate from the other ranges which are your re-steal ranges for your CSI (same as M) according to the opponent's stealing range.

Anyway, I got this book Friday and I'm still not half way through because it is so dense. I love the math behind everything and it doesn't leave much guesswork to what to do when at the end of a tournament.


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Pokerpun
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: shyturtle27]
      #12838127 - 11/06/07 06:31 PM

The book sounds great , but the title is really dreadful e.g. I did not even read this thread at first as I did not realize it was about a poker book.

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fraac
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: Pokerpun]
      #12838255 - 11/06/07 06:41 PM

As pointed out in article 9 subsection 12, Kill Everyone is a great name. It should be the name of everything.

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Assani Fisher
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12876942 - 11/09/07 06:21 AM

Quote:



Weíve also got a bonus chapter by Mark Vos on 6-max NLHE cash game strategy.





That seems really really random.

100,504 and counting


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MyTurn2Raise
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Assani Fisher]
      #12917803 - 11/12/07 02:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Weíve also got a bonus chapter by Mark Vos on 6-max NLHE cash game strategy.





That seems really really random.

100,504 and counting





it is random and doesn't fit with the rest of a good book


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Jan
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Re: Available now at Amazon [Re: fraac]
      #12919732 - 11/12/07 08:49 AM

Quote:

As pointed out in article 9 subsection 12, Kill Everyone is a great name. It should be the name of everything.




Considering that when I took my daughter to swim practice at a local high school and left the book on the bleacher steps, and now I have to call this school to inquire if the book has been found and will most likely have to name the TITLE of this book to have any chance of recovering it, it is not such a great name.

Edited by Jan (11/12/07 08:56 AM)


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smbruin22
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12923967 - 11/12/07 03:08 PM

when will the book be available from amazon.ca? i.e. canadian amazon......... and is it subject to delay at Amazon.com right now? thanks....

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shyturtle27
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: MyTurn2Raise]
      #12925155 - 11/12/07 04:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Weíve also got a bonus chapter by Mark Vos on 6-max NLHE cash game strategy.





That seems really really random.

100,504 and counting





it is random and doesn't fit with the rest of a good book




Random, but decent advice. The only horrible thing I read was about open limping 66-22 in EP, but that might just be because it wants to be geared toward absolute 6-max beginners who don't know how to play post flop at all with a dry pair.


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Poker Face
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: smbruin22]
      #12928522 - 11/12/07 08:09 PM

Quote:

when will the book be available from amazon.ca? i.e. canadian amazon......... and is it subject to delay at Amazon.com right now? thanks....




Amazon.ca just added it...probably Sunday. It's listed for a Jan. 2008 release (no specific date), but I imagine you might have to wait till Feb., before they deliver it to you. Chapters.ca is usually faster shipping out rare American books like Farha on Omaha (chapters.ca had it in stock before Amazon.ca did-I don't think Amaz. has it in stock even now), but chapters doesn't have "Kill Everyone" listed yet.


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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: smbruin22]
      #12938225 - 11/13/07 12:09 PM

Quote:

when will the book be available from amazon.ca? i.e. canadian amazon......... and is it subject to delay at Amazon.com right now? thanks....




I have no idea when it will be available in Canada. At .com there were delays since it keeps selling out. On the 3rd shipment we sent to Amazon, after they announced immediate availability it sold out in 12 hours. But it looks like they've restocked now and have it available immediately.

Tysen


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jase
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #12938371 - 11/13/07 12:20 PM

Quote:

there were delays since it keeps selling out.




Good problem to have, Tysen. Congrats...


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dirty banana2007
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: jase]
      #12945554 - 11/13/07 07:39 PM

Any idea when it will reach Amazon uk?

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Poker Face
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: dirty banana2007]
      #12960823 - 11/14/07 06:25 PM

Quote:

Any idea when it will reach Amazon uk?




LOL. I see it listed on Amazon uk for 14.21 (in strange Brit. money), but to get free shipping you have to spend more than 15. Plus, it's not in stock just like in Canada. Our money may be worth more, but we still can't buy what we want from our own countries. God bless America!


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dirty banana2007
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Poker Face]
      #12960904 - 11/14/07 06:30 PM

Wahey!! i looked a couple of days ago and it wasnt there! it must of just been put on today or yesterday! finding something else to buy with it to get free postage shouldnt be a problem!!

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Doc T River
O RLY?


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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Poker Face]
      #12960980 - 11/14/07 06:35 PM

I just want to know when it will be available from the big mega bookstores. I have three chains I frequent (visiting different locations for two of the chains) and none have it on the shelf.

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Traveller99
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Poker Face]
      #12962172 - 11/14/07 08:06 PM

Canadians shouldn't wait for Amazon.ca or Chapters - it doesn't cost difference isn't much to just order from the USA. I live in Canada and ordered it directly from the publisher and got it 3 days ago ... and am glad I did, so far it looks good.

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LeeNelson
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Traveller99]
      #12967354 - 11/15/07 03:05 AM

There has been some discussion here of Mark Vos' chapter on 6-handed cash game NLHE strategy in Kill Everyone. Some readers have called it "random" (tangential) and think it detracts from the book while others seem to appreciate its addition. No one seems to have had any real criticism of the chapter's content (other than saying they'd have liked to have seen more), and some readers and reviewers have really liked it.

It was billed as a "bonus chapter" and it's meant to be just that-a bonus. It's applicable to 6-handed NLHE tournaments when deep stacked (I've played several at the Aussie Millions) as well as to cash games. In my view, Mark, a WSOP NLHE bracelet winner, is one of the best short-handed NLHE and PLO players around, and both myself and my co-authors agreed that his views on short-handed NLHE cash play would be a +EV bonus.

Kill Everyone will be re-printed before long and I'd really like feedback from forum members who have read Kill Everyone on this question:

Would you prefer that this chapter be included or excluded in the re-print? Would Kill Everyone be a better book if this bonus chapter was not included?

Thanks for your feedback.

Lee Nelson


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Mason MalmuthAdministrator
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: LeeNelson]
      #12968075 - 11/15/07 05:03 AM

Hi Lee:

I'll answer your question even though I haven't yet opened my copy of Kill Everyone. But in today's poker book market, it's very important that the book in question stay completely focused on the subject matter of intent. So if we would have done the book, it's most likely I would have told you to eliminate that chapter and perhaps expand some of the other material.

Best wishes,
Mason


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MASTERHOLMES
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Mason Malmuth]
      #12968793 - 11/15/07 07:44 AM

could it be possible that you would of asked him in theory to work the six max section into the overall theme of the book? .
that would seem to the most logical to me without reading it (I plan to order it this week).

that is what I would reccomend for a further edition to either rewrite it so it fits the overall theme of the book, therefore it would no longer be a bonus chapter, but how these concepts apply to the chapter.
or I would use the chapter as a preview for a further book,

not from a publisher but from a book lover


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JennPKRpro
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: 7n7]
      #12971267 - 11/15/07 12:13 PM

I might have to check this out.

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shyturtle27
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: LeeNelson]
      #12972320 - 11/15/07 01:25 PM

Quote:

There has been some discussion here of Mark Vos' chapter on 6-handed cash game NLHE strategy in Kill Everyone. Some readers have called it "random" (tangential) and think it detracts from the book while others seem to appreciate its addition. No one seems to have had any real criticism of the chapter's content (other than saying they'd have liked to have seen more), and some readers and reviewers have really liked it.

It was billed as a "bonus chapter" and it's meant to be just that-a bonus. It's applicable to 6-handed NLHE tournaments when deep stacked (I've played several at the Aussie Millions) as well as to cash games. In my view, Mark, a WSOP NLHE bracelet winner, is one of the best short-handed NLHE and PLO players around, and both myself and my co-authors agreed that his views on short-handed NLHE cash play would be a +EV bonus.

Kill Everyone will be re-printed before long and I'd really like feedback from forum members who have read Kill Everyone on this question:

Would you prefer that this chapter be included or excluded in the re-print? Would Kill Everyone be a better book if this bonus chapter was not included?

Thanks for your feedback.

Lee Nelson




I don't see how excluding it in the re-print helps anything, but only hurts. I agree that is was strange to have it there, but the advice is good. I also agree that it helps with 6-max tournies. Maybe mention that the chapter can help with these short handed tournies in the reprint, but don't get rid of it all together. It is also pretty much the only 6-max exclusive material in print so far. It would be silly to just eliminate it.


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sharkscopeaholic
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: shyturtle27]
      #12973401 - 11/15/07 02:37 PM

If you eliminate it now then you would get tons of people who want the first edition since it has that extra chapter in it. I think its good you put an extra form of poker strategy in it...why would someone pay for the second print without it? The book is called "kill everyone" not "kill everyone but 6-max players"

edit: i didnt read the whole thread, were there some pansies complaining about an extra chapter?

Edited by sharkscopeaholic (11/15/07 02:38 PM)


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Bronstein
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: sharkscopeaholic]
      #12977224 - 11/15/07 06:28 PM

Great book, an awful lot to integrate in your play, even for almost all regulars I guess.

1 question Tysen: when referring to your database of low-level players and their average calling %, ... What levels are we talking about? under 5$ or 6+11 or even up to 22? Thx.


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Doc T River
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: LeeNelson]
      #12977466 - 11/15/07 06:40 PM

I vote to leave it in.

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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Bronstein]
      #12988157 - 11/16/07 12:04 PM

Quote:

1 question Tysen: when referring to your database of low-level players and their average calling %, ... What levels are we talking about? under 5$ or 6+11 or even up to 22? Thx.



The data comes from $11 SNG's, but is obviously applicable higher and lower. Player styles change as you go up and down, but I bet it would be really close for everything $22 and lower.

Tysen


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dirty banana2007
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Doc T River]
      #12989989 - 11/16/07 02:25 PM

Quote:

I vote to leave it in.




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SuperUberBob
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: LeeNelson]
      #12990602 - 11/16/07 03:13 PM

Quote:


Would you prefer that this chapter be included or excluded in the re-print?





Only if it resulted in a price drop.


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MASTERHOLMES
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: SuperUberBob]
      #13010498 - 11/18/07 05:57 AM

I asked mark vos about his chapter in kill everyone,, expecting to hear something revealing.
instead what i heard was the funniest thing I ever heard by a book author.

"it's ok"
"i wrote it in six hours".
then he went back on to his poker game.

I thought to myself is he serious ?
and started to smile and be mirthful about his answer eheh.

still going to order the book, and see for myself if it is something that looked like it was written in six hours . lol.

Edited by MASTERHOLMES (11/18/07 05:58 AM)


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mojo
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #13011174 - 11/18/07 08:34 AM

Any reviews by Mason or others? I looked through this big thread and saw a few. It sounds like this is a complex book that requires multiple readings. In what areas of tourney play will it help me most?

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Doc T River
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: mojo]
      #13011284 - 11/18/07 08:56 AM

Quote:

Any reviews by Mason or others? I looked through this big thread and saw a few. It sounds like this is a complex book that requires multiple readings. In what areas of tourney play will it help me most?




You won't see a review by Mason because he has indicated that he has not even opened it yet.


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JustLuck
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Doc T River]
      #13012130 - 11/18/07 11:26 AM

when will amazon ship it to europe? cant wait to get it

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Shandrax
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Doc T River]
      #13027253 - 11/19/07 10:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Any reviews by Mason or others? I looked through this big thread and saw a few. It sounds like this is a complex book that requires multiple readings. In what areas of tourney play will it help me most?




You won't see a review by Mason because he has indicated that he has not even opened it yet.




It's certainly not easy for Mason to comment on this book without hurting their own sales. 2+2 has just released a book on SnGs and a new edition of TPFAP after all. It's quite a dilemma.


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Doc T River
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #13033866 - 11/19/07 06:07 PM

What part did Joe Hachem play in the writing of this book?

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finesseQ
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #13034320 - 11/19/07 06:35 PM

Quote:

It's certainly not easy for Mason to comment on this book without hurting their own sales. 2+2 has just released a book on SnGs and a new edition of TPFAP after all. It's quite a dilemma.



I'd say it would stick out if Mason didn't review this, considering he gave Kill Phil 10/10.


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Gallopin Gael
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Doc T River]
      #13034504 - 11/19/07 06:48 PM

Quote:

What part did Joe Hachem play in the writing of this book?




The foreword.


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Doc T River
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Gallopin Gael]
      #13034817 - 11/19/07 07:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What part did Joe Hachem play in the writing of this book?




The foreword.




If this is true, I don't think Hachem deserves a writing credit. It would be like saying that Online Ace was by Scott Fischman and Phil Hellmuth Jr. since Phil wrote a foreward.


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Gallopin Gael
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Doc T River]
      #13037582 - 11/19/07 10:21 PM

he doesn't have a writing credit. the book clearly states that the foreword is by him, with Lee, Tysen and Kim being the primary authors.

Mark Vos didn't even make it on the cover.


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JLD
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: LeeNelson]
      #13039105 - 11/20/07 12:04 AM

Despite seeming like an unusual appendage to the book, I liked the 6-max chapter and thought it was helpful. Your explanation in your e-mail of its usefulness for deep-stacked 6-max tournaments was a better explanation than anything in the book for the inclusion of the chapter. If your going to change anything in the second edition I would highlight that reasoning for the inclusion of the 6-max section.

Separately, I really enjoyed the book overall and enjoyed the mix between your practical observations on the state of tournaments and current playing styles along with Tysen's mathmatical analysis.

While the advice on page 251 was very helpful in terms of dealing with the hyper-lags I would have appreciated more suggestions on good spots to gamble against the aggressive players beyond pushing with a wider range pre-flop or flopping two pair or better (i.e. is TPGK on uncoordinated flops good enough to get your stack in sometimes against these players? when?)

I would also love Tysen to write more about whatever he wants in poker but specifically more about cash games where I spend more of my time. His two plus two article on continuation betting is still one of my favorite writings on poker and I would love to see more like that. I wonder if he could do similar analysis on hand historys for cash games that he has done for tournaments. Specifically, I think it would be very interesting to see if he could analyze how playing styles (loose, aggressive, tight) relate to betting patterns (bet out flush draws, check-raise bluff, only check-raise with the nuts, etc.)


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Doc T River
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Gallopin Gael]
      #13041748 - 11/20/07 08:17 AM

Quote:

he doesn't have a writing credit. the book clearly states that the foreword is by him, with Lee, Tysen and Kim being the primary authors.

Mark Vos didn't even make it on the cover.




The book cover may make that clear, but there are some places I have seen it listed on the web that make it seem like Hachem helped in the writing. By this I mean, the listing will say Kill Everyone by....and Hachem will be listed like an author.


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ephemeral
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #13042025 - 11/20/07 08:57 AM

Thank you all for your replies on Kill Everyone and the Mark Vos chapter. Mark's chapter provides useful expert insights into 6-max cash game play which is becoming increasingly popular and about which precious little has been written. It's billed as a bonus chapter which is exactly what it is. Kill Everyone would have been 323 pages long without Mark's 25 page chapter so it certainly wasn't used to fill pages. The chapter is solid, and it relates well to deep-stack play in 6-max tournaments which also seem to be rising in popularity although some casinos hate to spread them because they use up a lot of tables. There is a 6-max NLHE tournament each year at the Aussie Millions including the upcoming one in January 2008.
It seems to be virtually a concensus universalis of those that have responded that the chapter should survive on re-print. We'll tie it in a bit better to deep-stack 6-max tournament play for continuity for tournament players, but short-handed cash game players have provided positive feedback about the chapter as well. Hopefully Mason, for whom we have great respect, won't ding us too badly for it's inclusion when he finds the time to review the book.

As for playing against hyperlags as questioned above by JLD, it's not easy and close to impossible without often taking stack-threatening risks. You have to put them on a range of hands and act accordingly based on your perception of their range which is often quite wide. The charts on page 72-73 of Kill Everyone provide an unexploitable re-steal strategy at varying CSIs(m)based on an opponents presumed range.

Yes, JLD TP-decent kicker is often enough to get it all in versus a hyper-LAG who is in the majority of pots and doesn't stop firing hot or cold. I've pushed with TP after being check-raised on the flop by super-aggressive players on a number of occassions. In each instance they folded so I can't tell you what they had, but my guess is they had something such as second or third pair, or draws that were now getting the wrong price.

Thank you all again for your replies and kind words about Kill Everyone.

Regards,

Lee Nelson


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Jbrochu
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: JLD]
      #13043352 - 11/20/07 11:20 AM

Quote:

His two plus two article on continuation betting is still one of my favorite writings on poker and I would love to see more like that.




Does anybody know where I can find this?


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JackCase
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Doc T River]
      #13043658 - 11/20/07 11:42 AM

Quote:


The book cover may make that clear, but there are some places I have seen it listed on the web that make it seem like Hachem helped in the writing. By this I mean, the listing will say Kill Everyone by....and Hachem will be listed like an author.




The Amazon listing for the book, which is in a format that is fairly standard for web listings, says:

Quote:

Kill Everyone: Advanced Strategies for No-limit Hold 'em Poker Tournaments and Sit-n-go's (Paperback)
by Lee Nelson (Author), Tysen Streib (Author), Kim Lee (Author), Joe Hachem (Foreword)




I don't think they could have made it any clearer than that.


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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Jbrochu]
      #13044755 - 11/20/07 01:03 PM

Quote:

Does anybody know where I can find this?



I keep all my old articles I wrote for 2+2 Magazine here.

Tysen


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trojanrabbit
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: JLD]
      #13044815 - 11/20/07 01:07 PM

Quote:

I would also love Tysen to write more about whatever he wants in poker but specifically more about cash games where I spend more of my time.



I play cash games sometimes, but not often enough to have attempted to collect a large database on them. If someone wanted to give me a large collection of unbiased (observed) hand histories, I might be able to do something with it.

Tysen


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Jbrochu
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #13044985 - 11/20/07 01:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does anybody know where I can find this?



I keep all my old articles I wrote for 2+2 Magazine here.

Tysen




Thank you sir! Great book, btw.


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Shandrax
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: trojanrabbit]
      #13048665 - 11/20/07 05:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does anybody know where I can find this?



I keep all my old articles I wrote for 2+2 Magazine here.

Tysen




Unfortunately they seem to have all timed out and got deleted.


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curious123
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Shandrax]
      #13049160 - 11/20/07 05:47 PM

They still work for me.

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Doc T River
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: JackCase]
      #13049427 - 11/20/07 06:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:


The book cover may make that clear, but there are some places I have seen it listed on the web that make it seem like Hachem helped in the writing. By this I mean, the listing will say Kill Everyone by....and Hachem will be listed like an author.




The Amazon listing for the book, which is in a format that is fairly standard for web listings, says:

Quote:

Kill Everyone: Advanced Strategies for No-limit Hold 'em Poker Tournaments and Sit-n-go's (Paperback)
by Lee Nelson (Author), Tysen Streib (Author), Kim Lee (Author), Joe Hachem (Foreword)




I don't think they could have made it any clearer than that.




When I saw it on Amazon, it did not make that distinction. And I have seen it listed in other venues.


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ephemeral
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Doc T River]
      #13049746 - 11/20/07 06:23 PM

Hi Doc,

You may have seen something put up in error on Amazon or other websites. I can assure you that Joe was never billed as an author by us. His role is only in providing the foreword. If you see any other billing for Joe, please let us know and we'll immediately endeavor to rectify it.

Regards,

Lee


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Doc T River
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: ephemeral]
      #13049963 - 11/20/07 06:38 PM

I will.

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Gallopin Gael
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: mojo]
      #13123236 - 11/26/07 01:40 PM

Quote:

Any reviews by Mason or others? I looked through this big thread and saw a few. It sounds like this is a complex book that requires multiple readings. In what areas of tourney play will it help me most?




Lenny at Pocket5's just reviewed Kill Everyone.

And I saw that amazon has a few more reviews now too.


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eacarmel1
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Gallopin Gael]
      #13137920 - 11/27/07 12:26 PM

I have read this book, and have found it very helpful in low limit 25-75 45 player sngs online. the tips inside have vastly improved my tournament play. Thank you gentlemen!

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Doc T River
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: ephemeral]
      #13184089 - 11/30/07 08:08 AM

Any idea as to when the reprint is going to happen?

I am going to add it to my ever growing poker book collection and as I might actually get around to reading it cover to cover, I want to wait for the reprint.


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ephemeral
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: Doc T River]
      #13187830 - 11/30/07 02:12 PM

It won't be re-printed until early next year. Any changes will be quite minor and not worth waiting for imo.

Regards,

Lee


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MASTERHOLMES
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Re: New Tysen Streib Book: Kill Everyone [Re: ephemeral]
      #13204077 - 12/01/07 05:36 PM

I have the book now and read it. what I like the best about it was how the book looks at the recent changes in tournament play and how one must adapt.
the part about how harrington book has caused more c betting amazed me for I didn't know how one book could do so much. but then if the tournament players are really wanting to get better they would of certainly ordered it.

I do not think that the short handed cash games chapter wrecked the book, on the contary it gave me hope that the authors would work on a cash game book.

if this book was the be all of the current tournement play then a workbook or a cash games equivlent is in order.
and a differnt take then the forthcoming dan harrington book could be needed in the future.

what I like was the look at the m vs fast play approach debate and the agreement that "in a sense they are both right" and I was happy with that.

this book will require a great deal of study in the future by me.


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