V for Vigilante

[_TKO_]

Inspired by a thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=exchange&Number=5565632&p age=0&fpart=1) about rape.

I don't really understand people's need to "take the law into their own hands." Do people really need to "prove" their own strength? Why do people feel like they are above the law?

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Inspired by a thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=exchange&Number=5565632&p age=0&fpart=1) about rape.

I don't really understand people's need to "take the law into their own hands." Do people really need to "prove" their own strength? Why do people feel like they are above the law?

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I believe I'm above the law. The law is just one consideration I take into account when deciding what to do.

chez

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
Inspired by a thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=exchange&Number=5565632&p age=0&fpart=1) about rape.

I don't really understand people's need to "take the law into their own hands." Do people really need to "prove" their own strength? Why do people feel like they are above the law?

[/ QUOTE ]
People like to pretend they're big, bad, heroic mofo's. Especially when they can do so anonymously.

[madnak]

I don't care about the law.

But I don't generally feel the need to deliver "justice." It does more harm than good, I think.

[_TKO_]

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But I don't generally feel the need to deliver "justice." It does more harm than good, I think.

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Why do you feel this way?

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
Inspired by a thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=exchange&Number=5565632&p age=0&fpart=1) about rape.

I don't really understand people's need to "take the law into their own hands." Do people really need to "prove" their own strength? Why do people feel like they are above the law?

[/ QUOTE ]


If the girl were my loved one such as my daughter, mother, or sister, my desire to beat such a guy to within an inch of his life would have nothing to do with proving my strength. It would be to avenge my loved one and if I'm honest... To make MYSELF feel better.

Obviously, this isn't rational. But it's the truth.

[madnak]

Benefits:

Would beating the guy take back the rape? No.
Would it make my girlfriend happy? No.
Would it make the guy less likely to rape again? Doubtful.
Would it make me feel better? Maybe.

Costs:

Would it cause suffering to the guy? Yes.
Would it cause distress to my girlfriend? Yes.
Would it ruin my relationship? Yes.
Would it make the guy more likely to rape again? Probably.

It seems clear to me that it would do more harm than good.

[Seether]

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Would it make the guy more likely to rape again? Probably.


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Please explain this as I feel it is one of the most inane comments I have ever heard. Nothing happening to the guy who raped someone and is "doubtful" to repeat it if nothing happens, but if he gets his ass beat he is "Probably" going to rape again? I think you have some issues in your understanding of the human psyche.

[guesswest]

Vigilante justice has much more appeal in societies where legislation is massively out of whack with popular opinion. For all we bitch about various laws, they're 'more or less' in keeping with the average persons views here in the west. Would it make sense if there was no legal punishment for rape? It'd certainly make more sense, and not just for selfish catharthis type reasons.

And I agree with whoever said they think they're above the law, I think I am too, it's nowhere near the primary factor in choosing what I think is 'right' to do, though more often than not the two coincide.

[madnak]

Based on my reading, my understanding, my intuition, and my limited interactins with actual sex offenders, I strongly believe that if you beat a rapist up, he's going to get pissed and take it out on someone weaker than himself. In my experience it almost never works as a deterrent.

[guesswest]

My understanding is that it wouldn't make much difference either way. I do want to challenge one of your other points though.

It may very well make your gf feel better. I think the idea that victims take no satisfaction in people actioning revenge on their part is totally fictitious and something we get from movies. I'd say the vast majority of people (male and female) would feel considerably better as a result of someone looking out for them in this way.

[madnak]

Well, in that case it might be justified. But I'm referring to the situation described in the original post, not a general situation.

[guesswest]

Ah sorry, didn't read the OP /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I agree in that particular situation, clearly the wishes of the victim have to trump all other considerations.

[JMAnon]

[ QUOTE ]
Inspired by a thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=exchange&Number=5565632&p age=0&fpart=1) about rape.

I don't really understand people's need to "take the law into their own hands." Do people really need to "prove" their own strength? Why do people feel like they are above the law?

[/ QUOTE ]

Our criminal law is designed to protect peace and civil rights at the expense of occasional injustice. Sometimes, rapists are not punished. When we see those injustices, we naturally want justice for the victims and punishment for the attackers. It has nothing to do with "proving" strength; most of us simply desire to see wrongdoers punished. We feel powerless, frustrated and angry because the law will not (or cannot) avenge the victim. If the victim is a loved one, that feeling may be too powerful to resist.

I also agree with the other posters that legality and morality are not the same thing. History is replete with examples. The holocaust, japanese internment, exploitation of "comfort women" in the Phillipines, slavery, and forced abortions in China are all examples of "legal" activities that clash with my notions of morality.

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
Inspired by a thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=exchange&Number=5565632&p age=0&fpart=1) about rape.

I don't really understand people's need to "take the law into their own hands." Do people really need to "prove" their own strength? Why do people feel like they are above the law?

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I think it is because we believe our duty is to do what's right. One way to do that is to create a society with laws upholding what's right. The laws arent the goal in themselves though - they are a tool for ensuring good things happen instead of bad things. If a law is failing in that goal (either because we have missed a situation in which action is morally required or because a law has been passed erroneously which is counter to the goal of doing good things) then it should be ignored, broken or abandoned - what is important is living well, not living legally.

[AceofSpades]

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I don't really understand people's need to "take the law into their own hands." Do people really need to "prove" their own strength? Why do people feel like they are above the law?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly in the case of rape, going through the legal process can cause pain to the victim unlike the prosecution of other crimes. I'm sure it's both embarrassing and painful having to relive that experience. Plus, most people don't want others knowing that they were raped. Vigelaente (sp) doesn't involve anything other than direct punishment.

[moorobot]

People worldwide have a recently well documented tendency to reciprocate in kind even when it comes at a cost to themselves. This tends to occur whether the other party benefited them or imposed a cost upon them. They go outta of their way often times to harm those who they think have commited an injustice against them even if it will be costly to themselves and will return good deeds with good deeds. This undermines the classical assumptions about man that economists make, btw, and they are trying to rework it.

[Siegmund]

"Would it make the guy less likely to rape again? Doubtful."

Wellllll. That depends. No, just beating the guy up won't do much besides make him mad and vengeful when his bones are set and his bruises heal.

But if I were doling out vigilante justice to a rapist -- the "beating up" would involve doing some specific physical damage to him to make absolutely certain he wouldn't be a repeat offender. If you get my drift.

In that sense, yes, the punishment serves a specific purpose of preventing a recurrence. (It may still do more harm than good. Especially if he takes out his anger by shooting people instead of raping them from now on, or something.)