change this forum?

[wheeler]

This is a crosspost from the "Forum Suggestions" forum.

I propose the following changes:

Science, Math and Philosophy (SMP) -> Philosophy and Religion.
Probability -> Probability, Math and Science.

Here's why:
1. The SMP forum is dominated by discussion of religion and philosophy. I just looked at the top 12 threads and there is one about science and one about math.

2. A number of working scientists (I'm one) are on record as no longer reading the SMP forum because they don't want to wade through the religious debate. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem debating religion vs. science, it's just that the current forum setup serves to frame every topic in those terms.

3. The probability forum gets no traffic. Adding science and math in there can only increase the viability of this forum. I don't see how it could harm the probability forum in any way if more math/science professionals were to contribute.

4. Maybe there are posters who want to talk about religion. It's not clear to me they'd know that the SMP forum was the appropriate venue. If you put religion in the title it may result in involving more pro-religion people in the debate, who feel uncomfortable or on the defensive talking about religion in a forum with science in the title.

5. New forums increase traffic, as evidenced by the Puzzles and Games forum, where a large part of the traffic is made up by people who didn't post much before. This proposal will also increase traffic, but without increasing the number of forums.

6. I looked through other threads about this subject in this forum, and the standard rebuttal is "I don't think math and science can survive on its own." I agree that if you were to just move the science/math posts from the Science Math and Philosophy forum, you wouldn't have a viable forum, but I'm arguing that the SMP forum is hostile to math/science threads in its current forum, and you'll get an increase in the number of threads if you change the setup.

Thoughts?

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Science, Math and Philosophy (SMP) -> Philosophy and Religion.
Probability -> Probability, Math and Science.

[/ QUOTE ]
where would Sharkey's evolution stuff go?

chez

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Science, Math and Philosophy (SMP) -> Philosophy and Religion.
Probability -> Probability, Math and Science.

[/ QUOTE ]
where would Sharkey's evolution stuff go?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

nowhere /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Metric]

I tend to agree, and think it would clean things up a bit. However, I doubt that the religious/philosophy posting will do as well once removed from the science discussion, as a good deal of the religious posting masquerades as debate over science. With the scientists gone, it's just a bunch of "my worldview vs. yours" without the veneer of objectivity.

[bunny]

I agree with the OP completely.

[chrisnice]

I think math should be grouped with probability but I would keep science with philosophy.

[guesswest]

I sorta agree with this based on your argument - and I see where you're coming from. It'd be a shame though, it's the clash or left brain type people with right brain type people that makes the debate on here so interesting. Makes for a pretty unique group and I learn much more than I would if it was just pontificating philosophy types with cigarette holders and smoking jackets.

[MidGe]

I am not sure about moving Math with Probabilities, but I definitely would like Religion to have a separate forum from SMP. At the end of the day, there can't be much debate with religion and even if related to, it seems to me, quite different from philosophy.

[Sharkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Science, Math and Philosophy (SMP) -> Philosophy and Religion.
Probability -> Probability, Math and Science.

[/ QUOTE ]
where would Sharkey's evolution stuff go?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Arguments for or against evolution that are based on science would go in the Science forum. Arguments for or against evolution that are based on religion would go in the Religion forum.

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
Arguments for or against evolution that are based on science would go in the Science forum. Arguments for or against evolution that are based on religion would go in the Religion forum.

[/ QUOTE ] How can one distiguish the two, and why should anyone?

[Lestat]

It wouldn't bother me if religion got toned down a bit on here, but I'm afraid if you move science over to "math and probalities", you'll probably get less science posts (certainly less scientific information), than we have now.

There is some very good scientific information and links posted in this forum on here by some very knowledgeable people if you take the time to read through the threads. I'm not sure you'd get that in a math forum.

I think if you want to see more scientific threads, the best thing to do is to start posting some interesting topics yourself! I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. Seriously, post about what you're interested in. The people who frequent SMP are certainly intelligent enough to discuss it and indulge your thirst for more science.

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Science, Math and Philosophy (SMP) -> Philosophy and Religion.
Probability -> Probability, Math and Science.

[/ QUOTE ]
where would Sharkey's evolution stuff go?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Arguments for or against evolution that are based on science would go in the Science forum. Arguments for or against evolution that are based on religion would go in the Religion forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Name an argument FOR evolution that's based on religion.

[Sharkey]

[ QUOTE ]
How can one distiguish the two, and why should anyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

One can distinguish the two by reading the post in question and noting the subject matter of its content. As to why, it’s a matter of ensuring the nature of the argument presented matches the forum.

[Sharkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Name an argument FOR evolution that's based on religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. I’m not sure what it’s called, but there are many people who present a theory of evolution that is more or less identical to the officially recognized version except that God is the primary cause.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Name an argument FOR evolution that's based on religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. I’m not sure what it’s called, but there are many people who present a theory of evolution that is more or less identical to the officially recognized version except that God is the primary cause.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's religion, not science, sharkey. You do tend to confuse the two. Science does not posit anything about first cause.

[ThinkQuick]

Does anyone think that the way this thread has gone is hilarious given that the OP said "it's just that the current forum setup serves to frame every topic in [terms of religion]"?

[wheeler]

Metric, questwest and others,

Most of the people on these forums are poker players, who are analytical and have above-average intelligence. In any discussion about religion on these boards, in whichever forum it's in, there'll be a "clash of left brain people with right brain people." I don't think all these analytical types will disappear if you remove the word "science" from the title of the forum.

Lestat,

I explained in my original post why I'm not interested in contributed to this forum in the current guise. I would like to contribute more, but I don't enjoy wading through the religious discussion, so I don't.

ThinkQuick,

Your post is awesome.

[DougShrapnel]

I agree, get rid of the religious debate. Not sure the best way to do that. But I think that that is the main reason why this forum was created. Politics wants to come here to. Politics can stay away, except for the higher level stuff, but partisan bickering...ugh.

The problem as i see it is, Probability and Psychology are under the headings of General Gambling. Both of these when not related to gambling belong here. Not many can stand the religious debate tho, so there are fewer qualified people here to discuss those issues. Most of the time I ask a prob question here it gets answered by someone from General Gambling -> Probability.

[Lestat]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
Metric, questwest and others,

Most of the people on these forums are poker players, who are analytical and have above-average intelligence. In any discussion about religion on these boards, in whichever forum it's in, there'll be a "clash of left brain people with right brain people." I don't think all these analytical types will disappear if you remove the word "science" from the title of the forum.

Lestat,

I explained in my original post why I'm not interested in contributed to this forum in the current guise. I would like to contribute more, but I don't enjoy wading through the religious discussion, so I don't.

ThinkQuick,

Your post is awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to see more scientific substance then you should first make an effort to contribute before complaining. What will you do if the people neglect your brand of science in the math and probability forum? Are you just here to read? They've got journals for that, don't they? So post some topics first and see if they catch on. I think they would and when they become more prevelant than theistic philosophy on here, you'll have the forum you want.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I also think there's no much religion on here. I've toned down my posts and responses at least a little mainly because I've said all I have to say on most religious issues. So start some interesting scientific topics and I'll be the first to read them! Especially me, because I enjoy science and love to learn about it.

[ZenMasterFlex]

Good idea.