Poseidon - Possible or impossible?

[wacki]

After seeing this commercial
http://www2.warnerbros.com/poseidon/


I had a lawyer friend that read "The perfect storm" and now claims to be an expert on waves, boats, etc. He said that the size and length of the wave would continue to roll a boat over and not leave it upside down. He also said the ballast at the bottom of the boat would never allow it to maintain balance upside down. He also doubted waves could capsize a massive ocean liner. (the last statement is obviously flawed IMO considering there are megatsunamis)

This true or not true?

[New001]

I'm not an expert on this, but doesn't a tsunami that is far from shore barely seem like a wave at all (to an observer on the surface, that is)?

[wmspringer]

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I'm not an expert on this, but doesn't a tsunami that is far from shore barely seem like a wave at all (to an observer on the surface, that is)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, tsunamis far from shore can be miles long and only inches tall; it grows when it starts hitting the sea bottom and gets kicked up. Get far enough from shore and you can easily go through one without noticing it.

[ethan]

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I'm not an expert on this, but doesn't a tsunami that is far from shore barely seem like a wave at all (to an observer on the surface, that is)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, tsunamis far from shore can be miles long and only inches tall; it grows when it starts hitting the sea bottom and gets kicked up. Get far enough from shore and you can easily go through one without noticing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The wave in the trailer would more likely be a freak wave (wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_wave). I don't know that the ballast would be guaranteed to right the boat, but I think it's plausible.

[New001]

From that Wikipedia link:

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Encounter with freak wave

On Saturday 16 April 2005, the Norwegian Dawn encountered a 70-foot (21 m) freak wave after sailing into rough weather off the coast of Georgia. It damaged several windows on the 9th and 10th decks. Several decks were flooded, but there was only minimal damage.

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[yukoncpa]

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Encounter with freak wave

On Saturday 16 April 2005, the Norwegian Dawn encountered a 70-foot (21 m) freak wave after sailing into rough weather off the coast of Georgia. It damaged several windows on the 9th and 10th decks. Several decks were flooded, but there was only minimal damage.



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This is interesting. I haven't seen the new movie, but if I recall the original "Poseidon Adventure", the wave was a 50 foot tidal wave.

Edit - the wave was caused by an underground earthquake.
edit again - Sorry, I just did a google search to see if my memory was correct, and found that the wave was 90 feet high.

[Masquerade]

Satellite imaging has shown that 30m (100 feet) "freak" waves actually occur with chilling frequency.

BBC report on Freak Waves (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3917539.stm)

[wacki]

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I'm not an expert on this, but doesn't a tsunami that is far from shore barely seem like a wave at all (to an observer on the surface, that is)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say tsunami, I said mega.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/mega_tsunami.shtml

[Metal_Rat]

I think that in a bad enough storm an oceanliner could end up on it's side and not be able to right itself.

Since these things aren't completely water tight, I could see if a boat takes on some water and leans (lists?) too much that a big enough wave could knock it over. The ship may take on too much water for it to right itself.

I can't see it ending up completely upside-down.

(I have absolutely zero facts to back this up... but I recently stayed in a Holiday Inn Express)

BUT... How about this for sinking/tipping an oceanliner...
One of those science shows discussed Methane Eruptions.

Methane is trapped in dead organic matter at the bottom of the ocean.
An earthquake or temperature increase triggers a massive release of methane. When it rises to the surface it reduces the density of the ocean water so much that any ship caught in this loses buoyancy and sinks.

Truth or Myth???

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that in a bad enough storm an oceanliner could end up on it's side and not be able to right itself.

Since these things aren't completely water tight, I could see if a boat takes on some water and leans (lists?) too much that a big enough wave could knock it over. The ship may take on too much water for it to right itself.

I can't see it ending up completely upside-down.

(I have absolutely zero facts to back this up... but I recently stayed in a Holiday Inn Express)

BUT... How about this for sinking/tipping an oceanliner...
One of those science shows discussed Methane Eruptions.

Methane is trapped in dead organic matter at the bottom of the ocean.
An earthquake or temperature increase triggers a massive release of methane. When it rises to the surface it reduces the density of the ocean water so much that any ship caught in this loses buoyancy and sinks.

Truth or Myth???

[/ QUOTE ]

Strictly from the density change and not any suction or whirlpool effects?

Im staying at a Hyatt but I would have to say Myth. Since the methane isnt water soluble it reaches the surface as a bubble that would push the boat upward when it hit the surface, and when the boat settled back to the surface the gas would have dispersed enough that the apparent density drop in the water would have reversed.

Let the battle of the hotel chains begin.

[Nottom]

I don't know if its possible or not, I just want to know who I should kill for deciding that remaking a terrible movie would be a good idea?

[theweatherman]

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[ QUOTE ]
I think that in a bad enough storm an oceanliner could end up on it's side and not be able to right itself.

Since these things aren't completely water tight, I could see if a boat takes on some water and leans (lists?) too much that a big enough wave could knock it over. The ship may take on too much water for it to right itself.

I can't see it ending up completely upside-down.

(I have absolutely zero facts to back this up... but I recently stayed in a Holiday Inn Express)

BUT... How about this for sinking/tipping an oceanliner...
One of those science shows discussed Methane Eruptions.

Methane is trapped in dead organic matter at the bottom of the ocean.
An earthquake or temperature increase triggers a massive release of methane. When it rises to the surface it reduces the density of the ocean water so much that any ship caught in this loses buoyancy and sinks.

Truth or Myth???

[/ QUOTE ]

Strictly from the density change and not any suction or whirlpool effects?

Im staying at a Hyatt but I would have to say Myth. Since the methane isnt water soluble it reaches the surface as a bubble that would push the boat upward when it hit the surface, and when the boat settled back to the surface the gas would have dispersed enough that the apparent density drop in the water would have reversed.

Let the battle of the hotel chains begin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm almost 100% certain that this occurs. I saw an experiment in the discovery channel and it showed how large gas releases destroy the boyancy of a boat. It sinks like a stone.

[Copernicus]

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I think that in a bad enough storm an oceanliner could end up on it's side and not be able to right itself.

Since these things aren't completely water tight, I could see if a boat takes on some water and leans (lists?) too much that a big enough wave could knock it over. The ship may take on too much water for it to right itself.

I can't see it ending up completely upside-down.

(I have absolutely zero facts to back this up... but I recently stayed in a Holiday Inn Express)

BUT... How about this for sinking/tipping an oceanliner...
One of those science shows discussed Methane Eruptions.

Methane is trapped in dead organic matter at the bottom of the ocean.
An earthquake or temperature increase triggers a massive release of methane. When it rises to the surface it reduces the density of the ocean water so much that any ship caught in this loses buoyancy and sinks.

Truth or Myth???

[/ QUOTE ]

Strictly from the density change and not any suction or whirlpool effects?

Im staying at a Hyatt but I would have to say Myth. Since the methane isnt water soluble it reaches the surface as a bubble that would push the boat upward when it hit the surface, and when the boat settled back to the surface the gas would have dispersed enough that the apparent density drop in the water would have reversed.

Let the battle of the hotel chains begin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm almost 100% certain that this occurs. I saw an experiment in the discovery channel and it showed how large gas releases destroy the boyancy of a boat. It sinks like a stone.

[/ QUOTE ]

This link (http://dsc.discovery.com/news/afp/20031020/methane.html) to discovery.com has a different interpretation of what actually happens.

Rather than the ship sinking due to reduced density, the elevation of the water due to the rising gas causes the ship to slide off the "bubble", and the bursting of the gas out of the water creates a jet of water that fills and sinks the boat. This is much more reasonable to me, because as I said above and confirmed, methane is not water soluble. thus any reduction in density would be due to "frothing" of the water by small bubbles, rather than one large bubble.

[Metal_Rat]

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I don't know if its possible or not, I just want to know who I should kill for deciding that remaking a terrible movie would be a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

To make it realistic, they should change the plot and replace the tidal wave with a giant methane bubble.

Have a scene where someone is smoking a cigarette up on deck. When the methane bubble hits and the methane/oxygen ratio is just right... KABOOM!!!

Discovery Channel needs to test this to see what would happen to the ship and passengers.

[Rduke55]

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I don't know if its possible or not, I just want to know who I should kill for deciding that remaking a terrible movie would be a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

To make it realistic, they should change the plot and replace the tidal wave with a giant methane bubble.

Have a scene where someone is smoking a cigarette up on deck. When the methane bubble hits and the methane/oxygen ratio is just right... KABOOM!!!

Discovery Channel needs to test this to see what would happen to the ship and passengers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mythbusters time.

[Copernicus]

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I don't know if its possible or not, I just want to know who I should kill for deciding that remaking a terrible movie would be a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

You must be young and have grown up in the age of blockbuster special effects movies.

For its time it was a groundbreaking special effects masterpiece, with a cast of the stars of the day, a great theme song and 6 or 7 other Academy Award nominations.

[Nottom]

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I don't know if its possible or not, I just want to know who I should kill for deciding that remaking a terrible movie would be a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

You must be young and have grown up in the age of blockbuster special effects movies.

For its time it was a groundbreaking special effects masterpiece, with a cast of the stars of the day, a great theme song and 6 or 7 other Academy Award nominations.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, retarded plot aside ... I understand some of the charm of the original. The fact that they felt the need to remake it however just irks me. This isn't something like King Kong where movies have changed so much since when it was originally filmed that remaking it makes sence (and yes I choose to ignore the remake from the 1970s since it sucked), the original Poseidon Adventure was, as you mentioned, nothing more than a vehicle for special effects and a bunch of stars to hang out together. Basically this is just yet another example of Hollywood's lack of imagination these days. They can't even come up with new bad plots for summer action movies anymore.