Taking first Philosophy class this semester, help me pass

[egocidal]

So im not really into the "i think therefore i am" or "what is knowledge" crap. So how do I get an A in this class without compromising whatever I think about philosophy, ie, its a bull class. Things I should say to the teacher, what.

[MathEconomist]

God forbid you might actually have to learn something about a field that you clearly know nothing about in order to do well in it. If you don't want to learn the material, don't take the class. There's nothing worse than whiney business or premed majors who don't actually want to learn anything.

[yukoncpa]

If this is a first year philosophy class, it's a boner class. Just show up, take notes and read the chapters. The class is easy, don't sweat it.

[hmkpoker]

I think the fact that they force students to learn something that has nothing to do with their degree is even bigger crap. Is there any reason a premed student should have to put up with philosophy classes?

(This probably belongs in politics, but I couldn't resist /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the fact that they force students to learn something that has nothing to do with their degree is even bigger crap. Is there any reason a premed student should have to put up with philosophy classes?


[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't forced to take philoshopy, it was an elective. If you think that Med students should only study Medicine, then maybe medicine should be a trade school subject. We go to college to get a well rounded education.

[hmkpoker]

That's high school's job. Most college majors require twice as many [censored] classes than classes that actually pertain to the field of study. If someone wants to study philosophy, let him, but don't make it a prerequisite toward a degree that has nothing to do with it.

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
That's high school's job. Most college majors require twice as many [censored] classes than classes that actually pertain to the field of study. If someone wants to study philosophy, let him, but don't make it a prerequisite toward a degree that has nothing to do with it.



[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, these classes are easy and they are fun. The purpose of high school and the purpose of trade school is to teach functionaries how to function. The purpose of University is to Educate.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
So how do I get an A in this class without compromising whatever I think about philosophy, ie, its a bull class

[/ QUOTE ]

You study and regurgitate the material presented and keep your opinions on it to yourself unless asked.

[hmkpoker]

Let's say I know what I want.

I want to be a psychologist.

I need a BA from a credible institution to get into grad school. That's all I want.

Why should I have to put up with 80 credits of nonsense when I could get through the 42 credits I need in three semesters?

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So how do I get an A in this class without compromising whatever I think about philosophy, ie, its a bull class

[/ QUOTE ]

You study and regurgitate the material presented and keep your opinions on it to yourself unless asked.

[/ QUOTE ]

QED

[egocidal]

dude...im sorry but eat me. I am in fact a business major and this class is required. What will I learn, that I exist and should think accordingly? what makes up an argument? what is a premise? It's a bull class filled with bull questioned designed for people like to wear berets and smoke cigarettes while listening to indie music. in other words: hippie emo douches.


and btw, i wasn't asking for your opinion on whether the class was worth something or not. i wanted to know how to pass or seem like i knew what i was tlaking about. bluffthis answered my question.

[yukoncpa]

Don't be a psychologist, be a carpet layer. Psychologist's should be able to relate with a large sample size of personality types, carpet layers need only know a particular function. You will go further with a well rounded education if you want to be a psychologist.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
dude...im sorry but eat me. I am in fact a business major and this class is required. What will I learn, that I exist and should think accordingly? what makes up an argument? what is a premise? It's a bull class filled with bull questioned designed for people like to wear berets and smoke cigarettes while listening to indie music. in other words: hippie emo douches.


[/ QUOTE ]

With this attitude you should have no trouble acing the class.

[MathEconomist]

I find it incredibly ironic that a business major thinks some class is worthless. At the undergrad level, business classes are the most ridiculously easy and pointless classes imaginable. Any philosophy major could make a 4.0 as a business major at any school, let alone someone majoring in the hard sciences or math. If you don't want to actually learn things in college, go drop out and found your own business. You'll learn a lot more about business that way than you will in school and you won't have to pay tuition or take philosophy. Your ignorance of what philosophy is and why it is worth studying are exactly why people should have to take these classes.

[hmkpoker]

Right. That's why they have classes on personality development as part of the psych program.

The job market doesn't care about a well rounded education any more than college cares about your high school gym class.

[hmkpoker]

You know, usually I'm in here defending said liberal hippieism against belligerent conseratvive traditionalists, but I completely agree with you, that aspect of college is totally gay.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
Right. That's why they have classes on personality development as part of the psych program.

The job market doesn't care about a well rounded education any more than college cares about your high school gym class.

[/ QUOTE ]

What fields of study, if any, should not be career track oriented in your opinion?

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
The job market doesn't care about a well rounded education any more than college cares about your high school gym class.



[/ QUOTE ]
You are absolutely correct. The job market cares about what college you went to, who you know, and what your credit score is. Going to college is a once in a lifetime opportunity that actually has little to do with the job market (for most people). It has everything to do with meeting friends who on average will turn out to be successful, having fun, and learning obscure things like music appreciation that you will never again in your lifetime, take the time to learn.

[hmkpoker]

What do you mean exactly?

I'm of the opinion that to graduate with a BA in X, you should have to complete the 40-some credits needed for X. If you want to learn some other stuff, that's cool too, take it as a side, but don't count it toward X since it has nothing to do with it.

[hmkpoker]

Yeah, that's the cool aspect of college /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I spent four years living in a special interest dormitory; vast majority of residents were art students. Lots of cool people, interesting dicussion, cultural influence, events, etc. Very, very liberal. Best time of my life, hands down.

Classes still completely sucked though; I learned more about life from staying up discussing philosophy with people under heavy THC influence and sleeping through the afternoon than I would have from taking notes about Professor Liberalcock's theory of pompous canine scatology.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean exactly?

I'm of the opinion that to graduate with a BA in X, you should have to complete the 40-some credits needed for X. If you want to learn some other stuff, that's cool too, take it as a side, but don't count it toward X since it has nothing to do with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, I was asking if you thought a liberal educational system should be abandoneed for a trade school style system.

I think a system of higher education that stresses only studying a trade is a very poor idea if you want to have any type of enlightened populace. Of course, it all depends on what type of society we want to live in.

[yukoncpa]

Dude, You learned a lot from the people you hung out with. This happens to be my point. Professors schmepors, it was my friends that made college invaluable. If you have to take a philosophy class or two that you hate, who cares, they're easy and fun - it's your friends who make it all worth while.

[hmkpoker]

Having just major requirements for a BA is not a trade school system, it's just more efficient than what we have now. All it does is grant the student more freedom.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have to take a philosophy class or two that you hate, who cares, they're easy and fun

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop and think about that for a minute.

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have to take a philosophy class or two that you hate, who cares, they're easy and fun


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Stop and think about that for a minute.


[/ QUOTE ]

I did think about it right after I posted it, but didn't edit it because everything else I said made sense, and I thought you and I were at last forming an agreement.

[hmkpoker]

No, the argument was that excessive irrelevant class requirements are a useless waste of time, money and effort, and what I said hasn't changed the fact that I'm still right about that /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
No, the argument was that excessive irrelevant class requirements are a useless waste of time, money and effort, and what I said hasn't changed the fact that I'm still right about that



[/ QUOTE ]
LoL. I thought I had clearly won the argument and that you had concured. I must be wrong. You are my lord. I bow to you.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
No, the argument was that excessive irrelevant class requirements are a useless waste of time, money and effort, and what I said hasn't changed the fact that I'm still right about that /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think higher education in the US is set up this way? I think you should probably take a closer look at the history of pedogogy and the function of education in society before you come to any solid conclusion about what type of educational system is best.

[hmkpoker]

Now if only I could get BluffTHIS and NotReady to do the same /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[yukoncpa]

NH!

[IronUnkind]

Familiarize yourself with latin phrases. Italicize them and salt your papers liberally with them. This scam also works on twoplustwoers.

[BluffTHIS!]

Ploratur lacrimis quia tam stultus es.

[egocidal]

Look, philosophy can be discussed. When I'm high, it makes total sense to talk about what makes up truth or knowledge or God or whatever. But to be honest, those conversations take place mostly under the influence. Isn't that kind of sad? See if any business classes or premed classes need some substances to even make sense. The point is the class will probably be pointless to what I use in life. Maybe I'm going into it with a narrow mind, but I don't think that matters. I just want to pass. I don't care if I really exist in other people's minds or not, or whether a pebble on the beach is in actuality a small universe. Because no matter how many different things people try to make philosophy (just the concept, probably the class as well) something else, that is what it boils down to. High discussions that make you sound deep to impress some dumb college girl.

[BluffTHIS!]

Read my first post in this thread. I gave you the formula for passing. If you are high in class or when doing homework, that's your problem and won't just affect this course. Maybe you need to take a sabbatical from cannabis.

[egocidal]

bluffthis, you completely missed the point. I'm not high in class. In fact, we have only had one class so far. I am saying I only hear philosophy being discussed when people are stoned and chilling by the corner at a party.

[VarlosZ]

[ QUOTE ]
But to be honest, those conversations take place mostly under the influence. Isn't that kind of sad?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but not for the reason you're thinking of.

Look, no offense, but you clearly know nothing about philosophy, so don't be so sure that you'll hate it. In fact, you may as well try to enjoy it, since you have to do it anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to pass.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then why are you asking the question? You must know how to school. Show up to class, do the reading, and answer the questions. If you have a brain and do the work, you will pass.

[egocidal]

Yea I don't know anything about philosophy the class. But about passing, I don't think I can just read, take notes, and study like I do for every other class. And its not like a history class where discussions are interesting to me. The discussions we had for our first class made me so bored it was impossible to stay awake. I already said bluffthis answered my question. I didn't know if I should jsut regurgitate info or if I should disagree with him and make a show about it.

[VarlosZ]

[ QUOTE ]
But about passing, I don't think I can just read, take notes, and study like I do for every other class.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok: read, take notes, study, and offer your opinions about the readings. If you can give even vaguely rational justifications for your opinions, you will be fine.

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't know if I should jsut regurgitate info or if I should disagree with him and make a show about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Either one is fine so long as you show that you understand the material and are able to think about it critically.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
High discussions that make you sound deep to impress some dumb college girl.

[/ QUOTE ]

Put this effort into your poker playing instead. Money will impress dumb college girls more than intellect /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[IronUnkind]

Not only do you receive an 'A,' but dumb college girls are wetting themselves. It might be the beret, though.

[kurto]

Perhaps simply going into it with an open mind?

I loved philosophy. Whether or not I found a particular question that 'meaty' or not was beyond the point. I thought of philosophy as a bunch of unsolved logic puzzles. And I enjoy puzzles.

Furthermore, philosophy (if taught well) teaches people how to reason. Something, you may notice, is an unlearned skill to many. There's a reason may people in philosophy go on to become lawyers, programmers and such... they learn deductive reasoning.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the fact that they force students to learn something that has nothing to do with their degree is even bigger crap. Is there any reason a premed student should have to put up with philosophy classes?

(This probably belongs in politics, but I couldn't resist /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

Philosophy and the skills you can learn from it are useful for doctors. At least in terms of diagnostic analysis.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
dude...im sorry but eat me. I am in fact a business major and this class is required. What will I learn, that I exist and should think accordingly? what makes up an argument? what is a premise? It's a bull class filled with bull questioned designed for people like to wear berets and smoke cigarettes while listening to indie music. in other words: hippie emo douches.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. I think your response shows why they require classes like philosophy.

To try to undo some of the ignorance of incoming students.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Right. That's why they have classes on personality development as part of the psych program.

The job market doesn't care about a well rounded education any more than college cares about your high school gym class.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love when undergraduates in college espouse about what the job market wants. lol

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you have to take a philosophy class or two that you hate, who cares, they're easy and fun

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop and think about that for a minute.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his flaw was... implying that you hate the class when it seems clear you haven't studied it or understand the benefits of it to your general education or how its skills are applicable to your career.

If you haven't taken a class why assume you'll hate it (other then because of your ridiculous silly rant about people with berets) or assume that what it teaches isn valuable to many professions?

[hmkpoker]

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If you haven't taken a class why assume ... that what it teaches isn valuable to many professions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it probably isn't.

[hmkpoker]

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There's a reason may people in philosophy go on to become lawyers, programmers and such

[/ QUOTE ]

No, comp sci students go on to become programmers. Philosophy students usually go to get crap jobs.

[Bork]

[ QUOTE ]
. Philosophy students usually go to get crap jobs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong unless you define crap job in such a way that college graduates in general go on to get crap jobs.

[egocidal]

well i was partly right and partly wrong (at least thus far.) I learned today that we will be discussing arguments, premises, conclusions, and the validity of those things for the most part of the beginning of this semester (along with some descartes, etc). All of these are important skills, no doubt. But I already know most of this stuff from high school classes. We also managed to get into some Bush bashing instead of staying on topic, and then got into a heated debate on whether or not if someone is colorblind if that changes the actual color of the walls. Yea, I need this for the real world.




Look, I know it sounds naive, stupid, whatever you want to call it. But from what the professor told us we would learn this semester, I deduced that most of it is crap. Now, the teacher is a funny guy, and knows his sports stuff, so I don't hate him or anything. But I feel that the subject is simply not classroom material. A lot of what I got from his introduction to the class is that we will have a lot of debate, and at the end no one will have changed sides, regardless of whatever reasoning you use. But you (the people telling me I am wrong) are right in the fact that I haven't finished the course yet, and maybe will learn a random helpful fact sometime this year. The entire thing seems so pointless though, and I thought that if there was one moment that would have changed my mind about what philosophy is, it should have been at the beginning of the class to dispell any preconceptions (like mine) about what the class entailed. (sp?) It wasn't there.

[The Don]

Majoring in business in college is the same thing as going to trade school for auto mechanics. There is no room for intellectual debate or independent thought.

[hmkpoker]

It helps you get a good job, that's the point.

[hmkpoker]

Most of them do /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bearly]

money impresses 2+2 er's more than intellect............b

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you haven't taken a class why assume ... that what it teaches isn valuable to many professions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it probably isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. Since you don't really know, that seems a little closeminded. There's a reason why its been taught repeatedly for ages.

The fact of the matter is it teaches a very skill; reasoning skills, how to formally construct an argument, rules of logic, etc. These are very important if not KEY skills in many professions.

I've been out of college for nearly a decade and a half and if I can share... I resented many the idea that I had to take a lot of courses. I also found that many courses I thought I wouldn't like ended up being very interesting and I would have missed out completely if I weren't required to take them. More important, many courses taught me things which I found useful later in life which I didn't think would be helpful at the time.

Deductive reasoning, like used in poker, I would argue, uses the same skills of reasoning that are required and taught in philosophy.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
No, comp sci students go on to become programmers. Philosophy students usually go to get crap jobs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll excuse me if I don't give any merit to someone who is still taking their gen-ed requirements who thinks he can speak for the success of people who study philosophy.

You're belittling a study you know little about and the people who study it just reeks of immaturity and naivete.

[hmkpoker]

Are you referring to me? Because I graduated /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ElaineMonster]

Well, you're off to a great start. I can see you really impressing your professors.

OK, now I will actually help you. Is this a History of Philsophy class, an Introduction to Philosophy course, or is this a Critical Thinking/Logic course?
If it's the latter, dig in and enjoy! This is good, useful stuff. If it's either of the other two, treat it like you would a History or English class. Try to let go of some prejudices and learn something or just figure out what the prof wants to read in your essays.

For what it's worth, all sciences began as Philosophy.

[egocidal]

Intro to Philosophy. Basically a course in Argumentation. The reading is hard, I'm not going to lie. I enjoy a challenge, though, and there is a challenge here: find something useful that I don't know already.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
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There's a reason may people in philosophy go on to become lawyers, programmers and such

[/ QUOTE ]

No, comp sci students go on to become programmers. Philosophy students usually go to get crap jobs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last time I checked, the most common undergraduate degree for law students was philosophy. For those who approach it properly, the study of philosophy can be one of the most useful endeavors in life. Being able to systematically analyze very complex and abstract ideas is an extremely useful skill for a huge number of professions. There is a reason why the study of philosophy was reserved for the nobility for centuries.

[hmkpoker]

Wouldn't doubt it; my dad is a philosophy-major-turned-lawyer.

That being said, what are the most common jobs for philosophy BA's? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MathEconomist]

Very few naked undergrad degrees will get you a good job these days. I haven't seen evidence recently that philosophy BA's with no other skills do worse than business or psychology or journalism or english BA's. They all do fairly badly. The only degrees I know of that, by themselves, are likely to guarantee you a non-crappy decent paying job are engineering and computer science, and even the latter is questionable. To be honest, if I'm hiring for an intro-level business office or sales position, I'd probably be more inclined to hire a philosophy major than a business major. Specific knowledge and skills are easy to pick up later. Learning how to think and write is not something so easy to pick up on the job.

[hmkpoker]

Well, I guess at that point it boils down to other more specific factors. I know some philosophy majors that can positively thrash me in any debate, and others who are boneheads that floated through and wanted to take BS classes. Same goes for business majors.

Engineering is a strong degree, but it's a lot harder than the others. Comp sci grads often find themselves working for Bill Lumburgh /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[IronUnkind]

What's the title of your class? Who is the professor? What school? What are the class requirements?

[Monty Cantsin]

Here's what you need to know in a nutshell:

All of philosophy has its roots in a conflict between two schools that were established during the golden age of classical greek culture: the Platonists and the Archimedeans.

Every major philosopher and school of thought since then can be traced back to this argument. Essentially, the history of philosophy is just a series of fancy variations on these foundational concepts.

The argument concerns the nature of reality. Both schools believe that reality is constructed from a series of core concepts or "solids" but disagree about the number and nature of these concepts.

Platonists believe that the universe is composed of 5 solids that correspond to the 5 humors or immutable affectations. Whereas Archimedeans believe there are 13 solids, plus time. The inclusion of time as a solid is the most contentious point and the axis around which most philosophical arguments revolve. cf Neitzsche's "eternal return", Spinoza's "infinite essense", et al.

The status of time as either concrete (Platonists) or monadic (Archimedeans) is the driving force behind all the important -isms and debates in philosophy:

Cartesian Duelism - Descartes believed that the universe was comprised of mind (time) and body (matter) locked in a perpetual struggle, like two wrestlers.

Bergsonian Hermeneutics - Bergson defined believed that time was "memory devouring space" and that all truth statements were therefore empty vessels of meaning.

Hegelian Dialectics - Hegel's concept of Zeit or "Time of No Time" puts him strictly in the Platonists camp, but as a sort of Archimedean double agent. Of Hegel we must simply remember Adorno's dictum that he "cannot be trusted".

Wittgenstein's Tractatus - Wittgenstein (like Archimedes himself) was a fictional character created by the philosopher and mathemetician Bertrand Russell as a demonstration of time's isohedradic structure, "logic speaking to itself through meaning." Many people are unaware of Wittgenstein's fictional status and a Sherlock Holmesian cult of personality has sprung up around him.

Deleuze and Guattari - In the late 20th century these two European figures attempted to put modern philosophy back on track by unifying the rational, enlightenment approach to time as mental construct (signifier time) with the romantic view of time as a ratio of physical integers (signified time). Modern day Deleuzians (of which I count myself) believe that time is both literary (solid) and scientific (vapor) and refer to it as "the beast with two backs".

Hope this helps, good luck with your class!

/mc

[Philo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's a reason may people in philosophy go on to become lawyers, programmers and such

[/ QUOTE ]

No, comp sci students go on to become programmers. Philosophy students usually go to get crap jobs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, philosophy majors are the only major that are in the top tier of admissions for both law school and medical school.

[Philo]

[ QUOTE ]
To be honest, if I'm hiring for an intro-level business office or sales position, I'd probably be more inclined to hire a philosophy major than a business major.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is, as a matter of fact, the trend in hiring practices by businesses these days.

[kurto]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's a reason may people in philosophy go on to become lawyers, programmers and such

[/ QUOTE ]

No, comp sci students go on to become programmers. Philosophy students usually go to get crap jobs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, philosophy majors are the only major that are in the top tier of admissions for both law school and medical school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm.. he's a guy signing up for entry level classes. I think he knows better the value of philosophy classes/degrees then anyone else.