Moderator "Dids" out of control in WPT forum [Archive]

Army Eye

01-10-2006, 07:16 AM

Dids has been needlessly locking dozens of threads in the WPT forum in the past month or so. Some have been justified locks, but most, not. I think now he has offically crossed any kind of boundary 2+2 possibly could have given him, and something should be said.

His latest lock was of a thread that posed the question of who the greatest tournamment player of all time was. Now, I've seen a LOT of 'moderators gone power-mad' in my years on the web, but the reason Dids has for locking this thread, and several other similar ones in the past, is among the most insane I've ever seen. His stance is that, if the question in the original post is "impossible to answer", then it should be completely forbidden to discuss it. In other words, he'll close any thread which asks something subjective - something without a definitive answer.

Yeah, he just basically made up this rule so he had a reason to lock more threads. It's impossible to defend his reasoning as it misses the obvious fact that threads on a message board needn't follow a strict guideline of question -> factual answer. Sometimes people like to take a topic like this and have fun with it, debate, bounce opinions off each other. This is, in fact, incredibly common and no harm comes of it.

A tip to all moderators and propsective moderators: A GOOD and effective moderator does not log on to the forums with thoughts in his head like "Man, my moderator powers sure make me a stud. I wonder how many threads I can lock today?!". A good moderator should not moderate for the sake of moderating, but instead only use his power when it is needed. A good moderator should not be quashing discussion, but facilitating it.

Another example: a thread where someone proposed a big buy-in tournament with a fast blind structure all the way through. Regardless of the merits of the idea, what reason could one possibly have for locking this thread? The answer: none, unless locking threads just makes you feel goos for some reason.

If any administrators read this, my suggestion is that you either rein in Dids, or relieve him of his duties. He is a poor representative of your company. There are many people out there who would volunteer to moderate and do a better job than Dids. I can produce many more examples of rampant over-moderating if asked.

Fun fact: If Dids was moderator of the religion forum, literally EVERY SINGLE thread would be locked in accordance with his policies! That would be pretty rough /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Monty_Brogan

01-10-2006, 09:39 AM

I don't really even care much for Dids most of the time, but he's a very good mod. He probably locked the thread because it's been discussed like 700 times before. I'd rather try to mod 00T than the bunch of retards in WPT. If Dids is willing to do it more power to him.

diebitter

01-10-2006, 09:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really even care much for Dids most of the time, but he's a very good mod. He probably locked the thread because it's been discussed like 700 times before. I'd rather try to mod 00T than the bunch of retards in WPT. If Dids is willing to do it more power to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I thought OOT was dopey, and then found both the 'Ranting Sklanksy' forum (aka SMP) and politics, so had OOT as third dumbest. WPT is worse!?!

Monty_Brogan

01-10-2006, 10:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
WPT is worse!?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Easily.

Tony_P

01-10-2006, 10:11 AM

Dids is the man.

WPT was on the road to becoming the worst forum on here before he took over.

"Fun fact: If Dids was moderator of the religion forum, literally EVERY SINGLE thread would be locked in accordance with his policies! That would be pretty rough"

Except SMP is not a free-for-all idiot-fest like WPT is, so he wouldn't.

Monty_Brogan

01-10-2006, 10:21 AM

Dids taking on WPT is like some selfless special-ed teacher. The chances of any of the retards ever actually becoming a quality poster in any of the real forums is minimal, but they need someone to watch out for them and keep them from hurting themselves. Sure Dids could do something bigger, but he feels sorry for the retards so he does it anyway.

Dids

01-10-2006, 11:06 AM

Short answer, which I will expound upon when I have a chance later today:

The OP has totaly missed the point of why I locked that thread. It's not about subjective opinions, it's about the fact that it's just plain nonsense to pretend to have a thread where everybody involve lacks the information to discuss it with any intelligence.

BluffTHIS!

01-10-2006, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's not about subjective opinions, it's about the fact that it's just plain nonsense to pretend to have a thread where everybody involve lacks the information to discuss it with any intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't post in or often read the WPT forum. But it is clear that the above quote is arrogant and presumptive. Congrats, you made that guy's case for him.

Monty_Brogan

01-10-2006, 11:22 AM

diebitter

01-10-2006, 11:31 AM

Dids

01-10-2006, 11:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not about subjective opinions, it's about the fact that it's just plain nonsense to pretend to have a thread where everybody involve lacks the information to discuss it with any intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't post in or often read the WPT forum. But it is clear that the above quote is arrogant and presumptive. Congrats, you made that guy's case for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok.

The point is this:

Nobody on this site has enough information to answer the question "who is the greatest tournament player of all time". It's a question to which the only meaningful answer is "we don't know". The thread I locked basically had about 9 responses saying "we don't know" before I locked it.

I think one of the huge flaws that we consistantly see in discourse is that people refuse to just accept that there isn't an answer to a given question. Rather that just accept that, people have these flailing, pointless arguments that in the long run are of no benefit to anybody involves.

As a moderator, I view my goal as not just to maintain the forum, but to attempt to improve it. When I took this position, I made it clear to Mat and Dynasty that I would be being more proactive and trying to guide the discussion more agressively. A big part of that is shutting down threads that just bring nothing to the table. (and/or threads that have been done over and over again- see "Phil Hellmuth is annoying/we should raise the WSOP buyin).

Another point, directed at the OP. If you wish to be taken seriously, address these issues like an adult, and don't try and project motives onto people that you couldn't possibly understand. Nobody mods a forum here out of some lust for "power". I'm 29 years old, I have a job where I supervise people, I don't come on the internet just get my rocks off flexing my e-muscles towards people I don't know. The reason I'm a mod is because I value 2p2 as a community and would like to see it improve. Yes, that means I'm going to be pretty aggressive in how I moderate my forums, but it's because there's a lot of work that needs to be done to "fix" WPT and NVG.

[censored]

01-10-2006, 11:53 AM

for the record I pretty much mod to get my rocks off.

BluffTHIS!

01-10-2006, 11:53 AM

And yet you are imposing an intellectual censorship on ideas that don't meet your own subjective qualifications. When you could merely let such posts die a natural death if they got no real responses, or at the very least after waiting a few days before locking a thread that produced no content.

Your actions are restricting discussing on a commercial site for your own non-abuse-related standards not given to you as a mandate from 2+2 (correct me if wrong here), and which actions can have the effect of lessening the traffic that generates the revenue for promoters of that site.

BluffTHIS!

01-10-2006, 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
for the record I pretty much mod to get my rocks off.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, I can actually respect that, i.e. admitting you are on a power trip, because it is an honest answer and not a justification or assertion that only your own views on things are correct.

Monty_Brogan

01-10-2006, 11:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And yet you are imposing an intellectual censorship on ideas that don't meet your own subjective qualifications.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing remotely intellectual about the WPT forum.

Clarkmeister

01-10-2006, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not about subjective opinions, it's about the fact that it's just plain nonsense to pretend to have a thread where everybody involve lacks the information to discuss it with any intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't post in or often read the WPT forum. But it is clear that the above quote is arrogant and presumptive. Congrats, you made that guy's case for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok.

The point is this:

Nobody on this site has enough information to answer the question "who is the greatest tournament player of all time". It's a question to which the only meaningful answer is "we don't know". The thread I locked basically had about 9 responses saying "we don't know" before I locked it.

I think one of the huge flaws that we consistantly see in discourse is that people refuse to just accept that there isn't an answer to a given question. Rather that just accept that, people have these flailing, pointless arguments that in the long run are of no benefit to anybody involves.

As a moderator, I view my goal as not just to maintain the forum, but to attempt to improve it. When I took this position, I made it clear to Mat and Dynasty that I would be being more proactive and trying to guide the discussion more agressively. A big part of that is shutting down threads that just bring nothing to the table. (and/or threads that have been done over and over again- see "Phil Hellmuth is annoying/we should raise the WSOP buyin).

Another point, directed at the OP. If you wish to be taken seriously, address these issues like an adult, and don't try and project motives onto people that you couldn't possibly understand. Nobody mods a forum here out of some lust for "power". I'm 29 years old, I have a job where I supervise people, I don't come on the internet just get my rocks off flexing my e-muscles towards people I don't know. The reason I'm a mod is because I value 2p2 as a community and would like to see it improve. Yes, that means I'm going to be pretty aggressive in how I moderate my forums, but it's because there's a lot of work that needs to be done to "fix" WPT and NVG.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I think all your responses in this thread pretty much validate the OP's point.

Dids

01-10-2006, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And yet you are imposing an intellectual censorship on ideas that don't meet your own subjective qualifications. When you could merely let such posts die a natural death if they got no real responses, or at the very least after waiting a few days before locking a thread that produced no content.

Your actions are restricting discussing on a commercial site for your own non-abuse-related standards not given to you as a mandate from 2+2 (correct me if wrong here), and which actions can have the effect of lessening the traffic that generates the revenue for promoters of that site.

[/ QUOTE ]

So locking threads from people who clearly don't read 2p2 products (because let's face it, if they did, they likely wouldn't make threads like that) is somehow costing 2p2 money?

2p2's target demographic is "people who play poker". The biggest issue I take with many of the posters in WPT is that clearly they don't actually play poker. I think that's an audience that 2p2 can afford to lose.

Clarkmeister

01-10-2006, 12:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
2p2's target demographic is "people who play poker". The biggest issue I take with many of the posters in WPT is that clearly they don't actually play poker. I think that's an audience that 2p2 can afford to lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 2+2 website's target demographic is "people who click on the website hundreds of times a day".

BluffTHIS!

01-10-2006, 12:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that's an audience that 2p2 can afford to lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do Mason, Matt and Chuck know you have staged a coup in their marketing department? And Clark is right about click-through.

Do the right thing and resign as the mod in WPT, after announcing it, and create a poll there for readers to vote to see if you should come back. And I won't vote because as I said it's not a regular forum for me, although this is an important overall issue.

trying2learn

01-10-2006, 12:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that's an audience that 2p2 can afford to lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

this quote coming from a mod would scare the hell out of me if i were an owner of this site.

FWIW, i think dids does a great job...i wouldn't want to mod any forum, but WPT would be last if i had to choose. apparently he feels the same if he feels that the posters there are disposable.

Nut4Dawgs

01-10-2006, 12:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
for the record I pretty much mod to get my rocks off.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Nut said, "Hail [censored]!"

[censored] said, "Hail Yesss!"

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dids

01-10-2006, 12:20 PM

The point I just made to Cola in PM is this:

I think that any loss in WPT posters is quickly made up for as other users find a (theoretically) improved forum.

Obviously posters = hits = $. I'm not ignorant to that at all. It just doubt that there's enough posters so gosh darn upset with my moderation that they're going to leave site and anybody would notice.

BluffTHIS!

01-10-2006, 12:22 PM

It's not that they would leave the site, but that they wouldn't start threads that generate more revenue-producing traffic.

Dids

01-10-2006, 12:27 PM

You're building a pointless starwman here and I regret getting sucked into this aspect of the conversation.

Not every decision made about moderating these forums is a on strick dollars and cents equation. One of the big reasons that user mods were brought into the equation was to help guide the conversation, and not just delete offensive posts.

I'm prefectly ok with my actions. I've shared my goals and my reasoning and until I hear otherwise from the management, I'm not changing.

mrjetguy

01-10-2006, 01:39 PM

I agree with the OP point that Dids is simply using his mod power too much. I sent Dids a PM message hoping that I could discuss the issue with him privately, but I got the read receipt back last night... no response though. Nothing drastic needs to be done, besides Dids just backing off a little bit. Enforce the rules established by the website, but don't try to enforce your own subjective and pointless rules.

Banks2334

01-10-2006, 01:53 PM

I would have locked the "Greatest Tournament Player" thread as well since the poll constructed wasn't a good one. I believe the choices were TJ, Hellmuth, Juanda, DN. Couldn't the poster put a little more thought into it?

MattSuspect

01-10-2006, 02:38 PM

DIDS' REIGN OF TERROR MUST BE STOPPED! or nurtured. Currently I'm leaning towards nurtured.

trying2learn

01-10-2006, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would have locked the "Greatest Tournament Player" thread as well since the poll constructed wasn't a good one. I believe the choices were TJ, Hellmuth, Juanda, DN. Couldn't the poster put a little more thought into it?

[/ QUOTE ]

if it's true that the poll had only those choices...it's not hard to see why it was locked.

thatpfunk

01-10-2006, 02:45 PM

this is so retarded. dids does a great job in a horrible, horrible forum.

why dont the people bitching and moaning actually look at the forum and see what dids does? he is not expressing himself well. he closes stupid, stupid threads, that is it. the OP's thread was les mis.

furthermore: 198 viewable threads in the wpt forum. there are 9 locked threads:
1 thread is a poll about the best player of all time. the poll has 4 options. every response was making fun of the OP
5 threads are repeats
2 threads are trashing 2p2ers. one is an unsubstantiated rumor that the OP pins on someone else without providing any info. the other makes fun of a player for bubbling in a mjaor tournament
1 thread is pretty silly and probably did not need to be locked, although there was certainly no worthwhile discussion going on.

so why don't you douchebags actually look into something before trashing someone doing a thankless job.

bwana devil

01-10-2006, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody on this site has enough information to answer the question "who is the greatest tournament player of all time". It's a question to which the only meaningful answer is "we don't know". The thread I locked basically had about 9 responses saying "we don't know" before I locked it.

[/ QUOTE ]

dids,

you seem like one of the more logical guys on the board and i think you have some good reasoning skills. it seems to have strayed a bit on this one i think. id give this another look if i were you. im not sure what the harm is to debate who the best tourney player is even if there is no answer.

in fact in sports people debate these types of questions all the time even though there is no definitive answer. for religion david has posed unanswerable questions in the same WPT forum and debated them.

and no one knows how many 5 year olds any of us can take down in a gym but luckily mat didnt lock that thread simply because we couldnt prove it.

bwana

lancasteraus

01-10-2006, 03:07 PM

I don't care much for Dids either, but I have no doubt in my mind that he is fair in his moderating ways. As far as revenue, surely we can agree that a sensible forum is more engaging and draws a better audience than the asanine clusterfuck that is currently the WPT forum. I would wager money that he is doing a good job, you should probably just get over it or go somewhere else. I dunno.

L

Monty_Brogan

01-10-2006, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this is so retarded. dids does a great job in a horrible, horrible forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

As proof+ I'll submit that I haven't seen a "what's the real reason the pros wear sunglasses at the table" thread in days. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

BluffTHIS!

01-10-2006, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As proof+ I'll submit that I haven't seen a "what's the real reason the pros wear sunglasses at the table" thread in days. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually you are just making the point that he hasn't done a good job by not making or encouraging others to participate in making a FAQ with links to common n00b questions that don't need to be made into a new thread again. If he thinks he's supposed to "guide" discussion (according to his personal standards), then why hasn't he simply done that?

thatpfunk

01-10-2006, 03:22 PM

why dont you actually read the [censored] forum? why do you have to suck at absolutely everything you post?

Monty_Brogan

01-10-2006, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why dont you actually read the [censored] forum? why do you have to suck at absolutely everything you post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on his posts in this thread, he'd fit right in in WPT.

bobbyi

01-10-2006, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually you are just making the point that he hasn't done a good job by not making or encouraging others to participate in making a FAQ with links to common n00b questions that don't need to be made into a new thread again. If he thinks he's supposed to "guide" discussion (according to his personal standards), then why hasn't he simply done that?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you feel the WPT forum needs a FAQ, feel free to write one. If it is of sufficient quality, I'm sure the WPT forum mods would welcome it.

JBB

01-10-2006, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2p2's target demographic is "people who play poker". The biggest issue I take with many of the posters in WPT is that clearly they don't actually play poker. I think that's an audience that 2p2 can afford to lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 2+2 website's target demographic is "people who click on the website hundreds of times a day".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you mean by this, or who those people are?

dankhank

01-10-2006, 08:35 PM

as the wpt forum moderater's defense in this thread is he's trying to cut down on repetitive, low-quality posts, the sticky at the top of the wpt forum seems particularly out of place considering it a) doesn't come anywhere close to covering all the topics which are actually taboo and which he will lock (for example there's no mention of not posting a question about who is the greatest tournament player, but threads on that subject apparently will be locked), b) the topics he does mention as "undiscussable" are questionable: it may be a long time before phil hellmuth is at a televised final table whining.... do you want a six month moratorium on hellmuth posts? plus the wsop has instituted a new 50k buyin event this year, which sort of makes the topic of the main event buyin being raised or not raised timely again.

in other words dids' judgement is perhaps off on what should be locked and what shouldn't be.

edit: additionally there should be some sort of explanation within a sticky like that, so new users can understand why certain topics are not allowed.

Dids

01-10-2006, 08:47 PM

dankhank,

I'm planning on adding to that sticky as I go. It's a work in progress from somebody with 3 meetings today who is busy getting ready to go on vacation and finding a new place to live.

It'll be ok, I promise.

[censored]

01-10-2006, 08:54 PM

NO YOU"RE OUT OF CONTOL MISTER!

mason55

01-10-2006, 10:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
do you want a six month moratorium on hellmuth posts?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I ever ventured into that cesspool I'm sure my answer would be: "No. How about 12?"

Kneel B4 Zod

01-10-2006, 11:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it's just plain nonsense to pretend to have a thread where everybody involve lacks the information to discuss it with any intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

dude thats the whole WPT forum

Russ M.

01-10-2006, 11:42 PM

"Does YOUR forum have an out of control moderator, and you want to confront them? Call 1-800-MAURY and tell us your story!"

ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S

01-12-2006, 04:51 AM

KneeCo

01-21-2006, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The point is this:

Nobody on this site has enough information to answer the question "who is the greatest tournament player of all time". It's a question to which the only meaningful answer is "we don't know". The thread I locked basically had about 9 responses saying "we don't know" before I locked it.

I think one of the huge flaws that we consistently see in discourse is that people refuse to just accept that there isn't an answer to a given question. Rather that just accept that, people have these flailing, pointless arguments that in the long run are of no benefit to anybody involves.

[/ QUOTE ]

By this logic, people should stop posting hands on 2p2, because in 99% of cases we can't have enough information and the only "meaningful answer" is "it depends". The point of the discussion isn't getting to a single "right answer", it's being enlightened/entertained/infuriated/spurred to answer/... by the rationale individuals use to backup their own suggestion(s).

Oh, and Dids is truly horrible at being a mod and really should be removed ASAP.

William

01-22-2006, 09:12 AM

Maybe posters should make an "intervention".
Everybody creating a silly poll. That would keep the busy.. hehe /images/graemlins/grin.gif

But apparently great job in supressing the "freedom of speach" and not allowing opinions, only facts!

prana

01-22-2006, 06:42 PM

Even in cases where something has been discussed before. Should a new member who wants to discuss something have to go read an out of date discussion instead of posting a topic and discussing it with people willing to discuss it again?
Seems wrong to lock their thread just because it's been posted before.

Dids

01-22-2006, 10:36 PM

"Should a new member who wants to discuss something have to go read an out of date discussion instead of posting a topic and discussing it with people willing to discuss it again? "

Here's the thing.

A new member will learn more, and read a better discussion from going back and searching for an older thread than by getting everybody's "we've been over this before" responses in a new thread.

This is SOP on virtually every well run forum on the internet.

GrannyMae

01-22-2006, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not about subjective opinions, it's about the fact that it's just plain nonsense to pretend to have a thread where everybody involve lacks the information to discuss it with any intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't post in or often read the WPT forum. But it is clear that the above quote is arrogant and presumptive. Congrats, you made that guy's case for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok.

The point is this:

Nobody on this site has enough information to answer the question "who is the greatest tournament player of all time". It's a question to which the only meaningful answer is "we don't know". The thread I locked basically had about 9 responses saying "we don't know" before I locked it.

I think one of the huge flaws that we consistantly see in discourse is that people refuse to just accept that there isn't an answer to a given question. Rather that just accept that, people have these flailing, pointless arguments that in the long run are of no benefit to anybody involves.

As a moderator, I view my goal as not just to maintain the forum, but to attempt to improve it. When I took this position, I made it clear to Mat and Dynasty that I would be being more proactive and trying to guide the discussion more agressively. A big part of that is shutting down threads that just bring nothing to the table. (and/or threads that have been done over and over again- see "Phil Hellmuth is annoying/we should raise the WSOP buyin).

Another point, directed at the OP. If you wish to be taken seriously, address these issues like an adult, and don't try and project motives onto people that you couldn't possibly understand. Nobody mods a forum here out of some lust for "power". I'm 29 years old, I have a job where I supervise people, I don't come on the internet just get my rocks off flexing my e-muscles towards people I don't know. The reason I'm a mod is because I value 2p2 as a community and would like to see it improve. Yes, that means I'm going to be pretty aggressive in how I moderate my forums, but it's because there's a lot of work that needs to be done to "fix" WPT and NVG.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I think all your responses in this thread pretty much validate the OP's point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nut4Dawgs

01-22-2006, 11:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A new member will learn more, and read a better discussion from going back and searching for an older thread than by getting everybody's "we've been over this before" responses in a new thread.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've noticed how "old" subjects frequently get discussed by folks who either weren't around or didn't notice, the first time posted. Sometimes folks who posted before, develop a new or revised opinion/idea. It's also possible the best responses weren't expressed before.

Threads usually die on their own, from lack of attention/interest. Sort of like "survival of the fittest" in the Internet Jungle. Let Ma Nature do her thing.

William

01-23-2006, 12:32 AM

Let Ma Nature do her thing.

Maybe he thinks he's not the boss then.
Like the macho-man around here...

DarthIgnurnt

01-23-2006, 08:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do the right thing and resign as the mod in WPT, after announcing it, and create a poll there for readers to vote to see if you should come back.

[/ QUOTE ]

DarthIgnurnt

01-23-2006, 08:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A new member will learn more, and read a better discussion from going back and searching for an older thread than by getting everybody's "we've been over this before" responses in a new thread.

This is SOP on virtually every well run forum on the internet.

[/ QUOTE ]

How could you possibly have any basis for this statement?

It's a discussion forum, it should encourage discussion. Judgments on the ability of the community to have intelligent discussion are outside the scope of what a moderator should do. Take a cue from the other moderators here who don't impose their subjective will so heavily.

Please resign.