Here's An Interesting Practical Ethical Question

[HotPants]

First off, I have no morals or ethics. But for those of you who do, what would you do in my situation:

I plan on donating some money soon. The money is from online poker, and I don't pay tax (which I think is illegal here in Australia, but the govn't here doesn't seem like it will ever go after pro gamblers).

However, my dad pays tax. He's in the 47% tax bracket. So suppose say I wish to donate 10k, I could give it to him to donate under his name. He could then donate 18.9k and get an 8.9k tax write off if I understand correctly

So, on the one hand, I could get more money to people who need it, possibly saving lives (assuming I choose the right charity), but on the other hand I'm basically ripping off the Australian government for 8.9k. This ultimately comes out of my fellow citizens' tax.

So what do you guys think?

[guesswest]

Why are you donating money if you have no morals or ethics?

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you donating money if you have no morals or ethics?

[/ QUOTE ]

The same reason that govern's every conscious choice I've ever made and will make in the future: It maximizes my 'feel good EV'

And IMO the same is true for everyone, whether or not they realize it. hmmm I may have just set up some one to hijack this thread. meh

[luckyme]

I'm not seeing the connection.
Your Dad makes a legal donation, getting a tax deduction. It's not like he just claimed to make the deduction.
His son gifts him 10K ( I don't know if gifts are taxable in Aus.).
His son doesn't report his poker winnings ( which may be taxabe in Aus.)

Where is the link? The only thing questionable is on the reporting of gifts and poker income, so whatever your opinion ( or perhaps your cultures opinion) on those issues is where the topic sits.

luckyme

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, I have no morals or ethics. But for those of you who do, what would you do in my situation:

I plan on donating some money soon. The money is from online poker, and I don't pay tax (which I think is illegal here in Australia, but the govn't here doesn't seem like it will ever go after pro gamblers).

However, my dad pays tax. He's in the 47% tax bracket. So suppose say I wish to donate 10k, I could give it to him to donate under his name. He could then donate 18.9k and get an 8.9k tax write off if I understand correctly

So, on the one hand, I could get more money to people who need it, possibly saving lives (assuming I choose the right charity), but on the other hand I'm basically ripping off the Australian government for 8.9k. This ultimately comes out of my fellow citizens' tax.

So what do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know Aussie tax law, but in the US you can legally gift up to 11k without either party owing money on the tax,and the recipient can then do whatever he pleases, including donating and taking a deduction.

As far as not paying taxes on online winnings, Im declaring that income, along with casino winnings. It would be low risk on its own and I actually feel that US has no grounds to tax it since they dont want to regulate it, but since I have other net winnings the audit risk is too high, and my career is hinged on an IRS practice status.

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not seeing the connection.
Your Dad makes a legal donation, getting a tax deduction. It's not like he just claimed to make the deduction.
His son gifts him 10K ( I don't know if gifts are taxable in Aus.).
His son doesn't report his poker winnings ( which may be taxabe in Aus.)

Where is the link? The only thing questionable is on the reporting of gifts and poker income, so whatever your opinion ( or perhaps your cultures opinion) on those issues is where the topic sits.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah I pretty sure it's legal to give him the 10k tax free

So besides me not paying tax, it's legal I think. But still, it feels like I'm sucking money out of other people through the tax system legally

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
As far as not paying taxes on online winnings, Im declaring that income, along with casino winnings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah basically I'm not paying tax cause I think the chance I'll get caught is too low, not to mention the chance they'll bother to go after me. But yeah not the main point of my post

[guesswest]

Well I'd suggest that your 'feel good EV' is just a synonym for ethics.

But regardless, to answer your question - it just comes down to who you feel deserves the money the most, your government or a charity of your choice. I don't think the equation is anything more than that, your government isn't going to increase anyones taxes as a result of your decision. Judging by the fact that you don't choose to report your winnings and pay tax in the first place, I'd guess by your own beliefs it has to be the charity that prevails.

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I'd suggest that your 'feel good EV' is just a synonym for ethics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I was wondering that, and almost googled 'ethics' for an exact definition, but I was lazy

[ QUOTE ]
your government isn't going to increase anyones taxes as a result of your decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

well.... they might...

but I'm still taking 8.9k out of the Australian 'system' regardless. How would you feel if I handed some one from (enter your country here) 10k, and then he donated 10k + X and wrote off X? Would you be totally fine with that?

[ QUOTE ]
Judging by the fact that you don't choose to report your winnings and pay tax in the first place, I'd guess by your own beliefs it has to be the charity that prevails.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say that's a good guess

[guesswest]

True, they might, but realistically they won't unless a lot more people start doing it than currently are doing, and that reality is the one you're making your decision in. To that end it's probably a misapplication of 'slippery slope' theory, there's a tipping point there as oppose to continuum.

And I'd be delighted if a foreigner stole 9k from my government and gave it to charity.

[HotPants]

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And I'd be delighted if a foreigner stole 9k from my government and gave it to charity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this interesing. Relatively, IMO What I'm proposing is similar to going around your country and robbing everyone of a little bit of money, equalling 9k total, then giving it to charity. The only difference I see is that this would end up in all of you paying a little more tax to the government collectively (9k more).

And obviously it's different legally

[guesswest]

I agree that's what it'd be - and I'm still fine with it.

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that's what it'd be - and I'm still fine with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that because you feel like you are paying too much tax and/or another reason?

[guesswest]

Just because I feel like as a society we spend way too much money on things we shouldn't be spending it on, and way less money than we should on humanitarian causes and the like. I also don't think the relationship is 100% proportional, it's more like inflection points, in the case of 9k over a national budget there would almost certainly be no taxation increase, it'd just mean public spending (and probably wasteful spending) was rejigged a little. The fact that I like the idea for 9k doesn't mean I like it for any amount.

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because I feel like as a society we spend way too much money on things we shouldn't be spending it on, and way less money than we should on humanitarian causes and the like. I also don't think the relationship is 100% proportional, it's more like inflection points, in the case of 9k over a national budget there would almost certainly be no taxation increase, it'd just mean public spending (and probably wasteful spending) was rejigged a little. The fact that I like the idea for 9k doesn't mean I like it for any amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sold on the idea now

[pilliwinks]

If the only way to force your government to lose X tax income to charity is to give 2X to charity yourself, I don't think the taxman is going to be losing any sleep.

There's nothing unethical about using donations as a tax writeoff. Not paying tax on your income is certainly unethical, though. Not to mention illegal. What was your IP number again? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[HotPants]

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Not paying tax on your income is certainly unethical, though. Not to mention illegal. What was your IP number again?

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe

Yah but I got it set up pretty good. I play under my mum's name, she recieves the checks and cashes them, then she give me cash. Under law she doesn't have to pay tax (because it's not her main source of income)

I might start going 'legit' soon though.

[moorobot]

[ QUOTE ]
'feel good EV'


[/ QUOTE ] Question for you: why does it maximize your 'feel good EV' to donate money?

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
'feel good EV'


[/ QUOTE ] Question for you: why does it maximize your 'feel good EV' to donate money?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I feel good when I make other people feel good.

If you ask why again, it'd be like asking why I like comedy. Not sure really.