the end of the universe

[Riddick]

Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

Also, what do you think is on the other side of the end of the universe?

[PoBoy321]

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Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

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Human beings will be long gone before this ever happens.

[Lestat]

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Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

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Human beings will be long gone before this ever happens.

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[bunny]

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Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

Also, what do you think is on the other side of the end of the universe?

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First question - no (including any sentient still alive, not necessarily human or our descendants).
Second question - there is no other side of the end of the universe. It isnt a bubble expanding into space (empty or otherwise) it is space and time itself.

[hmkpoker]

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Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

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Human beings will be long gone before this ever happens.

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Well, we will at least have evolved into something else, so I guess that's pretty open and shut /images/graemlins/grin.gif

That being said, I think MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction)is a fundamentally ridiculous concept. Why would anyone rational enough in their self-interests to attain the necessary level of power to engage in a course of action that will end up destroying the world (and him/their/itself) WANT to engage in such an action? The power to destroy the world doesn't fall in the hands of random nihilists, it falls in the hands of evil geniuses who want to immortalize themselves and expand their wealth and power.

[Borgland]

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Insuffiecent data for a meaningful answer

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[Copernicus]

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Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

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Human beings will be long gone before this ever happens.

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Well, we will at least have evolved into something else, so I guess that's pretty open and shut /images/graemlins/grin.gif

That being said, I think MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction)is a fundamentally ridiculous concept. Why would anyone rational enough in their self-interests to attain the necessary level of power to engage in a course of action that will end up destroying the world (and him/their/itself) WANT to engage in such an action? The power to destroy the world doesn't fall in the hands of random nihilists, it falls in the hands of evil geniuses who want to immortalize themselves and expand their wealth and power.

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Just because it hasnt in the past, doesnt mean it isnt about to. Ahmadinejad certainly lies on the wrong side of the cusp between nihilist and evil genius.

All it takes for your proposition to be false is a belief that there are sufficient rewards for MAD in the after life, and there are obviously plenty of martyrs who hold that belief and have no desire for power or material possessions. Keeping WMDs out of their hands is by far the biggest challenge the world has faced since post-WWII proliferation.

[Metric]

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Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

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Based on the latest observations, it looks like there will be no "contraction" phase -- i.e. the end of the universe will probably be a kind of thermodynamic heat death.

[Copernicus]

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Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

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Based on the latest observations, it looks like there will be no "contraction" phase -- i.e. the end of the universe will probably be a kind of thermodynamic heat death.

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But is thermodynamic heat death the end of the universe, or the "contents" of the universe.

[TimWillTell]

This universe is preparing for another BigBang to wich the previous one seems like an mouses farth.
What happens then... who knows.
We will not be there to see it, but Im sure it will be spectaculair for the Goddesses and Demons around.

[Metric]

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Does anyone think human beings will one day be able to halt to supposed expansion and ultimate contraction of the universe and suspend it forever?

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Based on the latest observations, it looks like there will be no "contraction" phase -- i.e. the end of the universe will probably be a kind of thermodynamic heat death.

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But is thermodynamic heat death the end of the universe, or the "contents" of the universe.

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It is the "end" in the sense that once thermodynamic equilibrium has taken hold, time evolution becomes trivial. In this sense, it is the "final" state of the universe. This should apply to gravitational degrees of freedom (i.e. to spacetime -- though this is a bit vague -- a fully covariant thermodynamics is not understood at present) as well as to matter degrees of freedom.

[hmkpoker]

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Just because it hasnt in the past, doesnt mean it isnt about to.

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Just because Bush says it's about to happen doesn't mean it's about to.

[Aver-aging]

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Insuffiecent data for a meaningful answer

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LOL. Lovely. I thought I was the only one who read "The Last Question".

Artificial intelligence will find us the answer!

[John Feeney]

Michio Kaku (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/4483221.stm) takes the view that we may be able to escape from this universe.

[Metric]

This is wild speculation and hand waving, of course. "Universe hopping" or any other plan to preserve a grain of human intelligence amounts to the search for a perpetual motion machine (i.e. beating the 2nd law), no matter how exotic the theories brought to bear on the subject may seem.

[John Feeney]

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This is wild speculation and hand waving, of course. "Universe hopping" or any other plan to preserve a grain of human intelligence amounts to the search for a perpetual motion machine (i.e. beating the 2nd law), no matter how exotic the theories brought to bear on the subject may seem.


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No question it's speculation. It's about something that could be a few billion years away. But it's not like he's saying, "Hey, we've got it all figured out." Hand waving (http://www.bartleby.com/61/73/H0047300.html)? I wouldn't characterize it that way.

[Metric]

I tend to think a quote of Sir Arthur Eddington is in order, here:

"If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations--then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation--well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation."

[John Feeney]

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I tend to think a quote of Sir Arthur Eddington is in order, here:

"If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations--then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation--well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation."

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Well, okay... But Kaku obviously knows his basic physics. He seems eminently qualified. I understand he was co-founder of string theory.

I'm no physicist. Maybe that's why it puzzles me that you seem so ready to dismiss his ideas. Are there some in his field who write him off for some reason? (you sound like you have some physics background?)

[Analyst]

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Insuffiecent data for a meaningful answer

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/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[siegfriedandroy]

wtf?

[Metric]

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Well, okay... But Kaku obviously knows his basic physics. He seems eminently qualified. I understand he was co-founder of string theory.

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Of course Kaku is a super-smart guy -- he is a co-founder of string field theory, which is a bit different than being a co-founder of string theory (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_field_theory ).

More to the point, he is also well known for making extremely speculative comments in his interaction with the public. BTW, there's nothing wrong with speculation (I do it too) -- but it should simply be kept in mind that it's more about having fun with out-of-the-box thinking than making precise arguments concerning well-established physics, and one should always be on the lookout for an element that violates well-established principles.

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I'm no physicist. Maybe that's why it puzzles me that you seem so ready to dismiss his ideas. Are there some in his field who write him off for some reason? (you sound like you have some physics background?)

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His serious research is one thing, but his public speculation is quite different (he appears regularly in radio and TV interviews). I don't believe he's published any serious papers on the preservation of intelligence by exotic string theory methods -- physicists I've talked to about him seem to regard him as a genuine researcher that simply likes to "have a bit of fun" with his public speaking.

As for me, I'm currently working on my Ph.D. thesis, which at present is focused on the creation of a theory of "covariant quantum information" -- essentially how information can be expressed in theories that have some of the basic features of quantum gravity.

[John Feeney]

Thanks for the info. On the topic of Kaku, here's an interesting page I found:

A bet on longbets.com (http://longbets.com/12)

[MelchyBeau]

people with cowboy hats are on the other side of the universe

[sigh]

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people with cowboy hats are on the other side of the universe

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http://www.mathsci.appstate.edu/~sjg/talks/futurama/futurama11.jpg

[samjjones]

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Thanks for the info. On the topic of Kaku, here's an interesting page I found:

A bet on longbets.com (http://longbets.com/12)

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Cool site. Ted Danson is +EV in long betting, baby!

[HotPants]

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people with cowboy hats are on the other side of the universe

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http://www.mathsci.appstate.edu/~sjg/talks/futurama/futurama11.jpg

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Yah Futurama rules. Man, that pic is like kinda freaking me out now