time travel scenario...

[Metric]

Ignoring the technical difficulty/impossibility of time travel for the moment, let's say that tomorrow you are abducted by aliens, taken back into time to the year 1500 (during the Renaissance), dropped off in Italy, there to live out the rest of your life. The question is the following (assuming you survive the first year and learn the language and culture at a basic functional level):

A) How profoundly could you influence/accelerate human history?

B) How profoundly could the average college-educated American influence/accelerate human history?

C) How profoundly could the average American highschool dropout influence/accelerate human history?

[ThinkQuick]

You're already in a lot of trouble with time travel things; but I guess the question should be read as how could a person with the knowledge of you/educated person/uneducated person living in the renaissance accelerate human history?

Its an interesting question. My first thought is that it would require a great deal of education to suggest the basic understandings of some modern sciences and technologies. However, even the dumbest American could describe and design the cultural conveniences we enjoy, as well as simple business models, and could have a great effect.
Additionally, anyone able to successfully set themselves up as a trusted prophet could have very profound effects.

Also, why isn't this x posted in OOT?

[Metric]

As far as OOT, I never spend any time there, so it did not occur to me to cross post, and the question is somewhat science/knowledge related in the first place...

Anyway, it occurs to me that certain specific subjects would indeed require a high level of education to influence (mathematics, for example -- though even the simple act of introducing modern algebra or vector notation could potentially be a large influence, making the subject far more accessable, hundreds of years in advance).

However, after thinking about this for some time, it seems like there are some basic concepts understood by virtually everyone today could have a profound "acceleration" effect. Things like:

"Interchangable parts" and an "assembly line" are good ideas if you want to manufacture a complex products.

Tiny organisms are the cause of disease -- sterilization of, for example, medical instruments is a good idea.

When trying out a new treatment, or inventing a new theory, you should CHECK in a careful way to make sure that it actually works -- apply this idea to something obvious like blood-letting with leeches when someone has a fever and it might begin to catch on centuries ahead of its time...

Any other really "basic, but modern" ideas that virtually anyone would know and could put into effect?

[Case Closed]

I think this all depends on your ability to use your knowledge. The powers at that time were not really keen on technology. So if you come around talking about all these inventive ways to make things better for everyone you might get yourself in trouble.

Now if I could find a way to influence people, it would be insane. Basic new ways of agricultre and such that I know enough about to influence that.

[PoorLittlePincus]

i've thought about that as well, remember that a lot of science what considered blasphemous back then, so it would be hard to convince people about scientific theory

[guesswest]

And even setting aside all the religiousity, superstition etc you'd have to overcome - it'd be very hard to get anyone in a position to act on information to listen to you considering academia was largely structured around the class system, from which you'd be an outsider.

[Metric]

This is why I specified the Renaissance, in a country that was as open to new ideas as possible. If you couldn't get some of thinkers of the time to pay any attention, you'd be pretty much SOL from the start.

However, the other things I mentioned (production line, sterilization) could be implemented on a small scale without much need for "big thinkers." The sheer efficiency of these ideas would probably be enough to ensure their widespread adoption before too long.

[theweatherman]

The ammount of basic knowledge that a college grad has is staggering compared to the 1500's. Even if the technical knowledge is lacking I still have a basic understanding of complex principals like lift, force, and calculus.

Just mentioning these ideas to certain people could send their research lightyears ahead of time. Imagine explaining lift/Bernuli's principal to Da Vinci, hed no doubt be able to create an airplane.

[Metric]

Keep in mind, though, that concepts like lift and pressure are several steps removed from a simple explanation. The concept of "force," "mass," and Newton's 2nd law have to be absorbed first (and to describe Newton's 2nd law, you'd first have to explain calculus convincingly)! It could be done by some, but you might have to get yourself into some kind of academic position before people would be willing to follow you that far with these ideas... I don't know if the average college grad would be up to it (especially since "average" includes a lot of people that never took the math/science classes or forgot about them as fast as humanly possible after the final).

[guesswest]

An interesting variation on this question:

If a reasonably well-educated and intelligent person, but someone without a specific area of academic interest, was given notice that they were going to be sent back to this time period - say they had a month. What things would be most beneficial for them to study up on beforehand to maximize positive impact?

[Metric]

Yes, that's a fantastic question as well... Having thought about it a bit, I think I'd definately use my one-month period to study a bit of history with experts on the time, and perhaps figure out a relatively easy/clever way to generate income (laboring in a field for the rest of my life for a tunip at the end of the day wouldn't make it easy on my plans for global influence). I figure the first year or so would be by far the most difficult, and any way to facilitate my way to "good standing" with respectable people would be a top priority.

After that, however, I'd probably do a bit of a review on rudimentary heat engines and the thermodynamics from a historical perspective. My personal plan (influenced by my personal background in physics, of course) would be to replicate some of Newton's most important contributions on calculus/mechanics, and then try to get thermodynamics started, as it is the key nugget of physics needed for industrialization.

After that, I'd probably write some books on some advanced topics that would be designed for the future (I see essentially zero chance to have electromagnetism and quantum theory appreciated by anyone in the few decades I'd have there, since Newtonian mechanics would already be a huge revolution, centuries ahead of its time). The books would probably contain a list of experimental "suggestions" for future scientists to perform, with "surprisingly insightful" comments on how "certain" outcomes might be interpreted.

But it would all hinge on getting to good standing with the right people (I'd probably try to use the Catholic Church as much as possible and very much go out of my way to make my "ideas" as palatable to it as possible). That would have to be priority #1. I figure that if everything went just right, I might be able to push modern physics up by roughly 200 years, and modern civilization (at least the "technology" part of it) up by maybe 100 years. So much depends on population dynamics, economics, and other factors that it's hard to say how much this kind of "accelerated physics" would actually influence how quickly it actually gets put into practice.

[BigSoonerFan]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this all depends on your ability to use your knowledge. The powers at that time were not really keen on technology. So if you come around talking about all these inventive ways to make things better for everyone you might get yourself in trouble.

Now if I could find a way to influence people, it would be insane. Basic new ways of agricultre and such that I know enough about to influence that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously doubt that anyone would take the ideas seriously and the influence would be nil.

[guesswest]

[ QUOTE ]
I seriously doubt that anyone would take the ideas seriously and the influence would be nil.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this, but I do think it'd in large part come down to social skills - charisma, political sensibility etc - much more than the scope of personal knowledge.

And metric - very good answer, think you'd do a lot better than me!

[JMAnon]

Another stumbling block is that the average college grad does not speak Italian.

[KeysrSoze]

Yeah, the problem is getting an infrastructure in place for all your really fancy ideas, and overcoming some prevalent dogma. 16th century, I bet I could get some steam engines good and running, and maybe build a couple internal combustion engine prototypes before I die. Maybe get doctors to boil their insruments and wash their hands. Maybe. Weapon technology would be the easiest to convince people to adopt.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
The ammount of basic knowledge that a college grad has is staggering compared to the 1500's. Even if the technical knowledge is lacking I still have a basic understanding of complex principals like lift, force, and calculus.

Just mentioning these ideas to certain people could send their research lightyears ahead of time. Imagine explaining lift/Bernuli's principal to Da Vinci, hed no doubt be able to create an airplane.

[/ QUOTE ]

He might be able to build a good glider, but unless you can also show him how to build an internal combustion engine (Pretty hard to do without a good machine shop), there would be no power source available with sufficient power to weight ratio for powered flight.

[TimWillTell]

I would't be doing any influenceing at all. I would try to surfive, not end up in jail or the loony-bin. But I would think that my chances were slim.

Did I mention that I was a dropout?
I mean, this day and age is a piece of cake for me, mainly because my life of education hasn't hurt me none.

What would I be over there? I'd be a moron who is not capable of any craft... I would be a beggar. No one listens to a beggar.

[madnak]

You could teach them about this neat card game...

[thekiller]

alot for a b and c