Kevin Trudeau

[siegfriedandroy]

Anyone know anything about this guy and his book, "Natural Cures"? (He is always on infomercials) Basically, he believes the FDA, FTC, etc are all extremely corrupt, along with the drug companies. He is completely anti-drugs, and believes that eating well, etc is basically the best way to avoid all serious ailments and diseases. By eating well, though, he means eating strictly natural, organic foods (and pretty much nothing you can buy at a supermarket).

Used to think all of these kind of guys were wackoes- not sure now. What do you all think about this philosophical issue? (I think it's philosophical b/c philosophy is the study of wisdom/truth, and I am asking whether you think this guy's beliefs about modern medicine/nutrition have any truth to them, or are completely bogus. Also, I pretty much dont hang out in any of the other non-gambling forums /images/graemlins/smile.gif. )

I started thumbing through the book while browsing at a local bookstore. Found the title interesting, since my dad has MS (multiple sclerosis). Seemed interesting, so I read like half of it. From the title, I thought it would focus primarily on alternative type medicine. Instead, a large part of it is devoted to trashing many US gov agencies, drug companies, and big food companies /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Not sure what to make of it all, but did find it an interesting read. Thoughts?

[purnell]

I haven't read that one, but it does seem to me that, at least in the US, the medical profession has become the sales staff for the pharmaceutical companies. In my case this is more of an emotional reaction than a well-reasoned position. My health is very good at the moment, so it hasn't become an issue, but when/if the time comes, my doctor will find it difficult to convince me that I really need his prescription.

[Matt R.]

He's a gigantic scam artist. My mom bought his natural cures book thinking it would be interesting at least, but it was a bunch of crap about "cleansing your body" over and over again. Not even an attempt to give real nutritional/health advice. It was so blatant it made me want to puke that this guy isn't in jail. Do a search on the guy. Some governmental agency fined him quite a bit and prevented him from doing infomercials ever again (he used to scam people through those). So, he turned to writing bogus books to turn a profit.

[ThinkQuick]

I most certainly do not believe that the medical profession is a sales staff for the pharmaceutical industry- in fact I think that that is a very strange thing to believe.

But even if doctors and the regulatory bodies are all corrupt, that dosen't provide evidence that there are "natural cures" for all serious diseases. Drugs work, and are proven to work, and yes there are some problems with the delivery of them in the US, probably due to the 100's of millions it costs to develop a working drug, but that dosen't negate the efficacy of the drug..

[Grisgra]

You don't remember Trudeau from all of the fakey infomercials?

http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/trudeau.html

[_Z_]

Con-artist.

Some good info can be found searching http://randi.org/

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

OK, let's go back X hundred years. No pharmaceuticals, no processed foods, no smog and (assume Europe) no tobacco. Life expectancy was much lower than it is now. Sure, a major component of the difference was infant mortality, but when adults got diseases, they generally died and epidemics were worse. So Mr. Trudeau can rag on modern medicine all he wants, but it basically works.

Now on the other hand, where there's a bunch of money floating around, there's bound to be funny business. If cancer could be cured by eating apricot pits, that would kill the income of an awful lot of people, so it is reasonable to keep an eye on not just the pharma industry, but all those regulators as well. They all drink from the same fountain.

Just because you can find some corruption in the med industry doesn't make medicine the enemy.

[siegfriedandroy]

He says in his book that statistics about life expectancy are fraudulent, and that everytime he hears someone say that people are living longer today it makes him want to scream /images/graemlins/smile.gif I have no idea where he gets his info about this statistic being a lie, and i have no idea how to go about proving the truth of it one way or the other.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
He says in his book that statistics about life expectancy are fraudulent, and that everytime he hears someone say that people are living longer today it makes him want to scream /images/graemlins/smile.gif I have no idea where he gets his info about this statistic being a lie, and i have no idea how to go about proving the truth of it one way or the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I have been involved in the development of the last 3 standard mortality tables used by the IRS and other government agencies, I can tell you they are not a lie from first hand experience.

Besides, the guy hustles golf training systems too, hes a joke.

[siegfriedandroy]

Yeah, perhaps he is way off base with most of what he promotes, etc. I dont see how the FTC should be able to fine him hundreds of thousands of dollars, though, for selling sh*t that is supposed to improve your memory, simply b/c he claims you can achieve a photographic one.

Still intrigued, nonetheless, by the above mentioned book and its criticisms of modern drug companies, etc. I never thought about it much, but it makes sense that many of these companies just might not have the purest motives in the world, either.

[siegfriedandroy]

Like I said, Ive read about half of it, and did find it interesting. The colon cleanses, etc, that he recommends are common practices, I understand, among those who believe more in eastern type medicine. I certainly dont think he should be in jail b/c he promotes a different philosophy on nutrition, health, etc. As for his basic info he espouses on nutrition, etc, and his talk of how terrible fast food is for you (i.e. that book 'supersize me') is not blatantly a scam, I dont think. It made me want to eat healthier and not go to McDonald's three times a day /images/graemlins/smile.gif Personally, while I dont necessarily believe or agree with much of what he says, I dont think much of the FTC, FDA either, or other such bullsh*t gov agencies. I dont think he should go to jail or be severely fined for promoting harmless products such as 'wrinkle cream' or memory aids, or for having different views on medicine/nutrition. That's crazy to me. If his products are a scam, then the customers should be smart enough to figure that out, and treat him accordingly as a scam artist. I think our gov today in this country is out of control.

[bunny]

Surely no company has "pure" motives in an ethical sense? (I'm talking run-of-the-mill corporations in business not corporate charitable institutions) Dont they exist solely for making profit, with everything else subordinate?

[siegfriedandroy]

sounds about right

[AceofSpades]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, perhaps he is way off base with most of what he promotes, etc. I dont see how the FTC should be able to fine him hundreds of thousands of dollars, though, for selling sh*t that is supposed to improve your memory, simply b/c he claims you can achieve a photographic one.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really curious why you think the government shouldn't punish those who lie and cheat people out of money? Why is a consumer protection agency bullsh*t??

[siegfriedandroy]

in theory, it's not bullsh*t. but if you read about some of these agencies, and the corruption that runs rampant through them, you'd be amazed at what you could find. im taking a class right now on administrative law (regarding agencies). it is almost impossible to get rid of someone in higher up agencies, no matter how corrupt and incompetent they are. Many of such agency's decisions are arbitrary, motivated by special interests, etc. Often these 'consumer protection' agencies are far more corrupt than the Trudeaus of the world. Sh*t, it doesnt take a genius to figure out that most of what you see on tv is not legitimate. if you want to nitpick, you could probably prosecute every single company that puts out tv commercials. in my view, the American people should be smart enough to not buy ridiculous products they see on tv. im pretty sure, too, for almost of these guys, if you dont like their products you send em back and get a refund.

so in summary, yeah, that's great that the gov punishes evildoers. but often this punishment is completely arbitrary and capricious and simply serves whatever hidden and selfish agenda the agency is trying to promote. perhaps i am way off, but this is what i believe at this point. the agencies are not at all well regulated and often automatically win in sham courts that they set up themselves (i.e US postal office for much of the past several decades)

[Sharkey]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, let's go back X hundred years. No pharmaceuticals, no processed foods, no smog and (assume Europe) no tobacco. Life expectancy was much lower than it is now. Sure, a major component of the difference was infant mortality, but when adults got diseases, they generally died and epidemics were worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reductions in mortality are mainly due to improvements in hygiene and nutrition.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Yeah, right, people die of cancer at a much lower rate than even 30 years ago. The hygiene part I agree with. The nutrition part is due to technology. Fewer people get sick from bad food.

[Maddog121]

One should remember that the drug companies aren't the only ones selling anything. The thing about the drug companies are that they are highly regulated unlike the health food industry. The health food/naturalistic cure industry is very much a use at your own risk venture.

Note that most of these products state that the claims are not supported by the FDA. This is not due to a grand FDA conspiracy but due to the level of clinical study and documentation required to get the endorsement, and legal ability to make an unqualified claim. I am not saying these substances are without benefit, but they do not have to meet the same rigorous testing and your legal options for product failure are not very broad.

Another problem is that there is not a reporting structure for adverse reactions. (Drug companies must report all incidences of adverse reactions within a very short time frame of receiving the complaint.) This can mean that drug interactions are going unnoticed or unreported (see the information on some of the organ transplant horror stories with St. John's Wort). It can also mean that it is much easier for a rash of fatalities due to unconventional treatment can go unnoticed.

The best way to get the most out of your med dollars is to buy generic medicines when you can. (For full disclosure, I work for a generic pharmaceutical company.) Being that I am in the industry, I can tell you that a lot of brand name drugs are made on a contract basis by the same company making the competing generic. The company I work for will even have the same bulk lot broken into a generic and brand name packaging.

I am not saying ignore the health food market just do your research ( and not Kevin Trudeau, he is suspect). One thing you do have to worry about with the pharmaceutical companies is the way they work with the doctors. If you find yourself getting a lot of prescriptions without lifestyle counseling, I would look into getting a lot of second opinions.

[Maddog121]

The problem is that if the customers are getting scammed, they could be dead before they figure it out. (Either from not getting proper treatment, or from just dangerous practices.) From what I hear that bald headed bearded fellow is a much better resource. Don't know his name, in too good of health to do too much searching on this subject.

[siegfriedandroy]

Really? I need to work on my game!! jk

[purnell]

[ QUOTE ]
I most certainly do not believe that the medical profession is a sales staff for the pharmaceutical industry- in fact I think that that is a very strange thing to believe.


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/cool.gif I'm a strange kind of guy.

[Aytumious]

I find it funny that people are taking nutritional advice from a well known scam artist and convicted felon. You'd think people could find people with better credentials for such an important topic.


Criminal history (from wiki)

1990: Larceny & prison

Trudeau's legal problems are long-standing. In 1990, he posed as a doctor in order to deposit $80,000 in false checks, and in 1991 he pled guilty to larceny after he had provided false information to obtain credit cards which he used for his own purposes. He spent two years in prison because of this conviction.(Choi, 2005) Most people in opposition to Trudeau's claims point to this felony conviction as a good reason not to trust him.

1996: SEC

Trudeau rebounded, making a small fortune working for Nutrition For Life, a multi-level marketing program. However, in 1996, his recruitment practices ran afoul of the states of Illinois and Michigan, as well as the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Michigan went so far as to forbid him from operating in the state.

1998: FTC fine

Then, in 1998, he was forced to pay $500,000 in consumer redress to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), relating to six infomercials he had produced and in which the FTC determined he had made false or misleading claims.

2004: FTC ban, fines

More recently, on September 7, 2004, the FTC announced that they were banning Trudeau from "appearing in, producing, or disseminating any future infomercials that advertise any type of product" because he repeatedly made "fraudulent" and "unsubstantiated" claims in them. [1] In addition, Trudeau paid $500,000 in cash and transferred ownership of a luxury vehicle and a piece of residential property in California to satisfy a $2 million fine against him. Lydia Parnes, Acting Director of the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection stated that “This ban is meant to shut down an infomercial empire that has misled American consumers for years.” The charges arose from work Trudeau did on an infomercial featuring Bob Barefoot and British actress Debbie Flett advertising coral calcium, a dietary supplement. However, Trudeau's infomercial advertising his book still airs on a daily basis because he is still allowed to promote publications. Airings of these infomercials in 2005 have included a guest appearance by Tammy Faye Bakker.

[siegfriedandroy]

What up Aytum,

Yeah, perhaps these examples make it clear that Trudeau is phony. I dont really know. He definitely seems sketchy. I dont think much of the FTC, though, either. I am mainly just interested in his claims about modern prescription drugs being dangerous (i.e. Vioxx). I definitely believe that drugs are overprescribed in our society, and that if mainstream America practiced a healthier diet, etc we would be a much healthier country. His book does seem pretty extreme, though.