How's your SSNLHE?: AKs

[ajmargarine]

OK, here's another one. Follow along in the hand, take the quiz as you go. It's a variation of a hand I played the other night with some sidepot issues, as well as preflop issues. Answer ratings to follow. Comments welcome.

.50/$1 NLHE 6-max

SB ($13)
BB ($145)
UTG ($98)
MP ($160)
Hero ($180)
Button ($84)

Reads: SB is a weak player who is in the process of donking off his second buy-in. MP is pretty loose preflop and chases with a wide variety of hands. Here's how the hand starts:

Preflop: Hero is CO with A /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, action is on Hero....

[ajmargarine]

Answer Ratings:

















Thanks for playing along. Comments/discussion is welcome. As stated before in these, Hero's actions in the quiz hand is not always the optimal play. Answers are rated on a scale of 0-10. 0 being donkorific, 5 being average, 10 being Orange-ish, meaning awesome.
--------
Question #1 --

(0) Call -- Likely to have the best hand, get some preflop value and buy the button.
(1) Raise to 3 -- too lite
(3) Raise to 4 -- don't price everyone in
(7) Raise to 5 -- Better
(9) Raise to 6 -- Best, 4xBB+1BB per limper is a good guide

-------

Question #2 --

(3) call -- meh, kinda weak. MP hasn't shown strength in both her chances to raise. You're best most of the time, so raise it up again and put more pressure on her.
(3) Raise to 26-39 -- might as well just call if you're going to raise so little.
(9) Raise to 40+ -- nice, price MP out, win a nice pot HU with SB. Or if she calls, you have position and likely to have the better hand.
------------

Question #3 --

(7) check
(2) bet 10-20
(8) bet 20-30
(7) bet 30+

This is an interesting decision IMO. It's likely you still have the best hand, and you now have the best draw. The sidepot is $0 however that you are contesting with MP. I think I lean towards betting around $25 here, but discussion is very welcome on this, as I don't think it's cut-and-dried.
----------

Question #4 --

(0) fold -- You cannot fold
(8) call -- MP made a nice sized bet. She may be have missed a c/r on the flop with a set. She may have AT. OTOH, you may be crushing her made hand and you still have outs to improve if you aren't. Calling is best here, IMO.
(4) raise -- risky
---------

Question #5 --

(5) call -- now we've got alot of info, raising for value is probably best here.
(8) raise -- MP should call a nice value raise on the end. If she suckered us into a raise here while she has something like TT, she just outplayed us. More times than not this is a weak A trying to see showdown, and will call a small river raise.
(6) push -- We want a call. I prefer raising.
------------

Question #6 --

(0) 15%
(10) 19.5% -- This is correct
(0) 25%
(0) 33.3%

EDIT--Hand results. Hero raised to $40, MP called. MP held AJ and SB held 77. Hero scoops both side and main pots. Thanks for playing along.

[PoBoy321]

Great post. One of the big problems with my play is when sidepots are involved.

[Buzz-cp]

I don't like betting this flop. We have to make a big enough bet to fold MP, and she can easily do so and see our cards for free in our SD vs SB. Now we are paying a big bet to get it HU, and we are about 50% to beat SB's small pair.

[beavens]

whoo.. played like i wouldve played it.

great post - i love these, AJ.

[Isura]

I check the flop with the $0 sidepot.

I call the turn and the river. Raising the river seems a bit thin. How much do we raise and do we call a push?

[wdead]

I would have played it much more aggresively but the passive line is ok I guess. If mp has something like 77 and wins pot cuz you didnt push her/him out on flop (and you dont hit) wouldnt u be annoyed?

Edit: Hmmm, but CO is all in..., passive better may be? Other opinions?

[kurto]

That was a fun quiz. The only problem with it is all the actions are based on what actually happened so if you answer the first question different then the actual play, the corresponding choices aren't offered.

For instance... After the small stack goes all in and MP calls, your choices are call or raise various amounts. If we raised, MP may have folded and the hand would be over. Also, how we act on the flop might change MPs play post flop.

Its a shame there's not a way to have branching options. (if you picked 'd' on question one... you get an entirely different set of choices.)

Also... what if we bet the flop and MP decided to test us with his pocket 7s and reraised us? Also, I suspect if we raised his turn bet, he would fold his 7s.

[PokerFink]

ajm,

I like checking the flop behind, but I can see an argument for making a smallish bet that builds a sidepot and might allow us to stack our opponent if we make the nuts. However, I don't like making a big bet (30+) because if our opponent calls, we miss the turn and he pushes, we're in a tough spot.

I like your river value raise a lot. I actually voted call, but the more I think about it, the more I think you're right. So few people would 3-bet push with air that we can safely fold if villian pushes. I think calling is better than pushing though. Pushing should be like a (3) while calling is maybe (6) and raising (8).

This is a good one.

-Fink

[djoyce003]

I voted call on the river...that's the only difference on where we were at...I guess the reason I called was that I had a hand with showdown value and a reraise would make me puke...hence the call....I think its close between raise and call though...didn't read MP as being that donkish.

I do like the huge preflop raise though and capturing MP's dead money.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a shame there's not a way to have branching options. (if you picked 'd' on question one... you get an entirely different set of choices.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this one pushed the boundaries of how complicated you could make one of these. The way the polls are set up, you can't get overly detailed in options. You can only put the needed info in the question header, and I don't want to go too crazy and lose people along the way. Probably hard enough to follow as is.

[kurto]

"I voted call on the river...that's the only difference on where we were at...I guess the reason I called was that I had a hand with showdown value and a reraise would make me puke..." I thought the villain's riverbet screamed of weakness/blocking bet. Considering the pot and sidepot, villain could easily have bet more and expected a call from a strong ace. Therefore, I feel pretty strongly that hero is ahead.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
I do like the huge preflop raise though and capturing MP's dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, this is the key to the hand (although the quiz hand didn't take this line). MP has had two chances to show the strength of her hand. She limped once, and then just called SB's push. A raise here from Hero represents a monster hand like AA/KK and is very likely to fold her out, and we get to play a HU pot with a small stack with MP's extra bet thrown in there as a sweetener. Plus, if she does call a re-reraise from us, we have position.

[Mercman572]

except for reraising preflop (more than 40) I play this the same. No reason to semi-bluff/c-bet the flop. You said yourself MP likes to chase. Value raise on the river is a good play in hindsight, but I don't mind going the more conservative route on the river

[kurto]

Well... its still good regardless. I'm just fantasizing about what would be ideal. Please keep posting these. They are good brainteasers.

One thing this made me think about... as the majority of people answered similarly, we should realize what this says (at least about people on 2+2). If this is the correct way to play it, and we are in the villain's chair, what can the villain deduce by our play?

I chose the more aggressive path for this hand. Since we don't know how the villain would have responded, we don't know how it would have played out. I'm wondering if playing the turn passively and raising the river is the best way to make the most money? (while check calling both is the safest way to win the least/lose the least)

Though if the villain is a real donk, as the AJ play might seem to indicate, then he might NOT have folded to a turn raise and we probably could have gotten more value.

now I'm rambling. Anyhoo.. please keep 'em coming. I'm just reiterating... if we all agree to the 'right answer' we should note that the 'correct' play is also giving information to our observant opponents. (which may mean just a few people now and again. lol)

[samster]

We have a strong hand on the river, one that may be worth a raise, but the question I have trouble with: will MP call our raise often enough to make it profitable? The answer depends on the style of MP; if MP is a very strong player then I don't know if (s)he would pay off a raise, depending on preflop play. I should work out the numbers in class /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[samster]

[ QUOTE ]

Though if the villain is a real donk, as the AJ play might seem to indicate, then he might NOT have folded to a turn raise and we probably could have gotten more value.


[/ QUOTE ]


This might imply that reraising enough to entice a call from a dominated hand preflop would be the correct play, rather than safely calling. The MP smooth calling an all-in from the cutoff has a ring of a strong hand (think AA or KK), maybe trying to do a limp-reraise, but was foiled by short stacked CO?

[xorbie]

Raise preflop x2, bet flop, call turn, push river.

On the flop, you should bet because MP might call with weak pairs, draws etc and you want to create a pot that is later worthwhile for him to call big bets in. This is a big pot, you have likely the best hand but just A high. Protect your pot, build a pot for later and hide your hand.

[samster]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop x2...

[/ QUOTE ]

hm?

[zaphod]

Nice post, i really like these. I agreed with all your answers, except the turn where i raised. Your comment makes sence though, and i now think it is better to call the turn.But then again i would not have been in this situation since i would have bet the flop. Checking the flop makes it harder to know where you are when MP comes out betting on the turn.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop x2...

[/ QUOTE ]

hm?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying I would raise both times it got around to me.

[yad]

Thanks, aj, these polls are great and this is one of the more interesting ones so far.

Was curious on the idea of reraising preflop after SB's push. I thought call might be better because you're going to have to hit anyway to win this pot. So raising to shut out MP seems somewhat pointless. If MP is weak/loose, might make sense to let her in alongside and let him pay you off in the side pot when you hit. But I'm not at all sure about this logic. And of course if SB can make this move with AQ or something then this doesn't apply.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
I check the flop with the $0 sidepot.

I call the turn and the river. Raising the river seems a bit thin. How much do we raise and do we call a push?

[/ QUOTE ]

You and I think very similarly.

[4_2_it]

Nice job. These just keep getting better and better.

I'm in xorbie's camp from the flop on. Since you are drawing to the nut, you want to build a nice little side pot.

[teamdonkey]

great thread

preflop - i answered raise big, but in the heat of the moment if i'm playing a lot of tables i probably make the same mistake you did and just call.

flop - i'm having a hard time trying to figure out how the SB fits into this. i THINK because he limits your fold equity (an important part of semi-bluffs), a call is correct.

turn - i think you're way ahead / way behind here, and a call is correct.

river -

[ QUOTE ]
(8) raise -- MP should call a nice value raise on the end. If she suckered us into a raise here while she has something like TT, she just outdonked us. More times than not this is a weak A trying to see showdown, and will call a small river raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

spot on (with a minor FYP).

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
preflop - i answered raise big, but in the heat of the moment if i'm playing a lot of tables i probably make the same mistake you did and just call.


[/ QUOTE ]

The quiz hands are fictionalized/modified/adjusted. This hand is actually a combination of two hands. In the actual-real hand that this hand is based on, I raised the second time preflop to $45, and MP folded. And my AK held up against SB's AQ. The postflop action in the quiz hand is a variation of another hand that I played in a somewhat similar situation. In that hand I flopped a flush draw with AK with a shorty all-in, with a sidepot of just a couple dollars in it, as a preflop reraise was impossible in that hand due to shorties stack size.

As it says in the answer page, Hero's actions in the OP hand are not always the best move. So, as I've said a few times, I do take quite a bit of creative license in trying to come up with interesting elements to showcase.

[ajmargarine]

Overall general comments:

Q #1 -- Alot of folks say 4xBB+1BB per limper is the guide to use in this situation (myself included). And yet the majority of folks are advocating a 3xBB+1BB per limper raise in the quiz hand. When in doubt, and against unknowns, I use the 4x guide. If I find I need more/less at a particular table to get the proper amount of action, I will adjust.

Q #2- I posted about pushing JJ preflop in a somewhat similar situation a couple weeks ago. And alot of folks were hesitant about doing something like that. Now in this quiz, we see a majority of SSNL'ers are hesitant to throw a reraise in there after MP calls for the second time. These situations don't come up alot, but when they do you should be able to capitalize on them.

Look at how the Hero's hand looks to villian if he were to raise it to $45. Hero PFR'd after 2 limps (strength), then a shortie push, a call, and now Hero re-reraises (mucho strength). MP is very hardpressed to call OOP against that kind of strength. Put this move in your TAG arsenal. It's a very good weapon.

And I wonder sometimes if some people hesitate to speculate so much like this preflop because of bankroll issues. Be very comfortable in your bankroll. Don't get all tight/weak when the pot starts getting large. Play goot poker and you stack more than you get stacked.

Q #3 - There's a division of insight in this question as well. The key to this Q is probably building a pot for the times that you do hit your hand; if you bet here, get a call, you can probably stack MP if you hit a flush. But, as in all things poker, there's more than one way to play a hand, and good players always differ on what is the best line.

Q4 looks like calling is clearly better and most here agree.

Q5's difference in answers is probably related to how Hero played the Hand up to this point. Calling on the end would be more consistent with the line Hero took in the OP hand.

And in Q6, woot, we finally got one of these percentage questions where the vast majority of people got it right.

[Godfather80]

Q #2- I posted about pushing JJ preflop in a somewhat similar situation a couple weeks ago. And alot of folks were hesitant about doing something like that. Now in this quiz, we see a majority of SSNL'ers are hesitant to throw a reraise in there after MP calls for the second time. These situations don't come up alot, but when they do you should be able to capitalize on them.

Look at how the Hero's hand looks to villian if he were to raise it to $45. Hero PFR'd after 2 limps (strength), then a shortie push, a call, and now Hero re-reraises (mucho strength). MP is very hardpressed to call OOP against that kind of strength. Put this move in your TAG arsenal. It's a very good weapon.


[/ QUOTE ]

My hesitance to reraise stems only from the fact that I don't want to fold out hands that we dominate (AQ, AJ). However, I definitely see the positives of reraising here in that we will probably fold out many hands that we coinflip with (22-99).

As I looked at it and asked what better hands will fold and what worse hands will call, I simply erred on the side of "pricing in" villain's possible overcards. In hindsight, I see that the reraise is best. Thoughts?

[ajmargarine]

My personal style of poker, and the style I prefer, is to win alot of medium-sized pots. Yeah, I go for stackage when it's appropriate. But, I'm just constantly putting pressure on villians when I believe I have the best hand, or very often, when I am representing the best hand. It just works for me in the 80% of the hands that we play every day that don't involve too much fireworks.

In the quiz hand, I want MP to fold whatever it is she has. I want to play a $40 pot where I have only invested $13 HU with my AK agst shortie. That's 27% of a buy-in right there with little fuss, little muss if she folds. If she calls say a $45 reraise, I'm perfectly willing and able to play the hand out with her with my AKs in position. But, I lean toward the medium-sized pot, little risk vs larger pot, bigger risk/bigger variance. It's just my overall tempermant and style.

[Reef]

very nice post. I had all the same answers except preflop. I think $5 is ok here too.

[DoomSlice]

The only one that I disagreed with is the size that you should bet on the flop. You probably have a sizable equity advantage against a good range of hands, however the ones that you will have the biggest advantage against are hands that won't be calling large(r) bets. Combine that with the fact that you have a dry side pot makes me inclined to bet a very small amount in order to induce him to call now and make a larger mistake if you do make your hand. A larger bet will usually just make him fold right now and you won't be able to capitalize later, and a check will keep the side pot empty and make it unlikely for him to make any major mistakes later on.

-Doom

[Big_Jim]

I don't feel like reading all of the replies quite yet... but I definately think that a flop bet is in order.

With no money in the sidepot, as of yet, there's nothing to fight over. Since the villian here is described as passive, I doubt he raises us often enough to worry about it, then we can take our free card if we want it, or have something to win if we hit.

There's nothing tricky about checking behind and waking up when the flush hits.

Edit: Not to mention, against this donk, we probably have the best hand, and any two cards have at least 6 outs, or are ahead.

[c_strong]

I'm always raising the turn here. AT and a set seem so unlikely compared to someone chasing with Ax (particularly given your read on MP). Betting out when the ace hits just says "hurray, I've hit!" to me. I think we're way ahead or freerolling often enough to raise here.

[djoyce003]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, aj, these polls are great and this is one of the more interesting ones so far.

Was curious on the idea of reraising preflop after SB's push. I thought call might be better because you're going to have to hit anyway to win this pot. So raising to shut out MP seems somewhat pointless. If MP is weak/loose, might make sense to let her in alongside and let him pay you off in the side pot when you hit. But I'm not at all sure about this logic. And of course if SB can make this move with AQ or something then this doesn't apply.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason you reraise is twofold. One you are likely ahead and you don't want to let MP see the flop for nothing when you have the opportunity to charge them. Also, their money is in the pot and you are currently in a threeway pot with the shorty all in. If you can reraise and fold them out, you are likely in a coinflip with shorty, but you have the added benefit of MP's dead money in the pot, making this a very +ev coinflip. You don't know for sure what MP has...maybe they have something like QJ...in that case you don't have them dominated and their equity is considerably better than if they have AQ or AJ....you just don't know so charge them preflop the max. If they are willing to call that large reraise with one of those hands, it's ok, because you are still a favorite. Basically it's an opportunity to increase your odds of winning a nice pot with an all in opponent while not really risking the money you are betting, assuming that MP folds. I routinely make this isolation play against an all in short stack with a wide range of hands...some of them considerably worse than AKs.

[yad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, aj, these polls are great and this is one of the more interesting ones so far.

Was curious on the idea of reraising preflop after SB's push. I thought call might be better because you're going to have to hit anyway to win this pot. So raising to shut out MP seems somewhat pointless. If MP is weak/loose, might make sense to let her in alongside and let him pay you off in the side pot when you hit. But I'm not at all sure about this logic. And of course if SB can make this move with AQ or something then this doesn't apply.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason you reraise is twofold. One you are likely ahead and you don't want to let MP see the flop for nothing when you have the opportunity to charge them. Also, their money is in the pot and you are currently in a threeway pot with the shorty all in. If you can reraise and fold them out, you are likely in a coinflip with shorty, but you have the added benefit of MP's dead money in the pot, making this a very +ev coinflip. You don't know for sure what MP has...maybe they have something like QJ...in that case you don't have them dominated and their equity is considerably better than if they have AQ or AJ....you just don't know so charge them preflop the max. If they are willing to call that large reraise with one of those hands, it's ok, because you are still a favorite. Basically it's an opportunity to increase your odds of winning a nice pot with an all in opponent while not really risking the money you are betting, assuming that MP folds. I routinely make this isolation play against an all in short stack with a wide range of hands...some of them considerably worse than AKs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your general point, and I agree that raising puts you in a nice +EV position. But this doesn't really answer my question, that calling could be more +EV. What I was trying to say is the following:

Assume SB has some kind of small PP. If this is not true, I admit my argument is completely wrong. Assume MP has QJ/AQ/something similar. Now two ways this can play out:

1. You don't hit an A or K. SB wins the pot, and fact that MP is in there doesn't really matter to you.

2. You do hit an A or K. So you're way ahead of QJ, or AQ/AJ/whatever else MP might have. If MP has also got a piece of the flop, he's still way behind you, but is likely to pay you. Only way this costs you is when MP flops two pair or straight or something. Perhaps this is not worth risking given the dead money in the pot, but it's not obvious to me that it isn't worth the risk.

Just trying to learn a bit here -- consensus on this thread seems to be that raising PF is better but I'm not sure I understand it.

[djoyce003]

you win money when you get money in while you are ahead...that's how you win money at poker...the results are irrelevant. If you get more money in the middle with AK when your opponent has AQ you are winning money. If he's called $13 with AJ he's likely to call $40. If not, that's ok, but if he does, that's good for you. If he's calling $40 with QJ that's good for you, you could still lose, but it doesn't matter, you got money in while you were ahead...

You are right, if SB has a small pocket and you force out MP but don't improve, you aren't going to win so it doesn't matter, but you took a coinflip getting 2-1 odds on your money, that's a good thing.

Also if villain calls you here preflop with QJ he's folding unimproved....if the flop comes AQX there is no way he's calling bets with second pair.

[Sweir]

At first I was thinking raise the turn but I can see that a call is probably the better play, good poll I agree with your ratings.

[bohus04]

nice quiz /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[NL Newbie]

[ QUOTE ]
I check the flop with the $0 sidepot.

I call the turn and the river. Raising the river seems a bit thin. How much do we raise and do we call a push?

[/ QUOTE ]

[The Vookster]

I love these pools... please post more of them!!

As an aside, I like the preflop raise isolation idea. provides great pot odds to take down a big pot where you are at worst probably 50/50 and in many cases would have the SB dominated.

[Mibbbbbbb....]

Why don't some of you want to bet the flop? Don't we have a monster draw and want to get our money in?

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't some of you want to bet the flop? Don't we have a monster draw and want to get our money in?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there is no money in the sidepot.

[cts]

pretty passive line... I'd def reraise preflop, put $ in on the flop, etc etc. Once you get to the turn like this though the turn/river line is good, obv have to raise the river for value.

[PBJaxx]

Where the hell did this come from? 1.5 yrs old...wtf?

And of course, I agree with CTS. Grunch, there is value in getting him out of the pot, even if there is a dry side pot, so I bet that flop. There is typically added fold equity with a dry sidepot too, so we might be able to get him to fold a better hand.

[drj003]

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't some of you want to bet the flop? Don't we have a monster draw and want to get our money in?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I would definitely bet the flop. I definitely raise the river too.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Where the hell did this come from? 1.5 yrs old...wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

You know that some people actually go back and read the threads linked in the stickies, right?

[cowpig]

I much prefer a push on the river

[The Vookster]

sorry... I guess I bumped this thread to the top by replying to it. obviously new to the forum so I have been working my way through all the threads posted in the stickies trying to get smarter.

I really liked the poll posts... made me feel like I was reading Harrington's problems at the end of his chapters... only better, in that these threads have feedback from multiple angles and opinions.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry... I guess I bumped this thread to the top by replying to it. obviously new to the forum so I have been working my way through all the threads posted in the stickies trying to get smarter.

I really liked the poll posts... made me feel like I was reading Harrington's problems at the end of his chapters... only better, in that these threads have feedback from multiple angles and opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to apologize, bumping a stickied post every now again is a good thing.

[PBJaxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where the hell did this come from? 1.5 yrs old...wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

You know that some people actually go back and read the threads linked in the stickies, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Are you implying that I haven't read the stickies? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I wasn't intending to be mean. It was fun to see again.

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
Where the hell did this come from? 1.5 yrs old...wtf?

And of course, I agree with CTS. Grunch, there is value in getting him out of the pot, even if there is a dry side pot, so I bet that flop. There is typically added fold equity with a dry sidepot too, so we might be able to get him to fold a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not disagreeing, I was just answering the question.

[Mibbbbbbb....]

[ QUOTE ]
Because there is no money in the sidepot.

[/ QUOTE ]

We want to build one with this hand, no?

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because there is no money in the sidepot.

[/ QUOTE ]

We want to build one with this hand, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO there are pros & cons to betting a dry sidepot here. On the pro side we have a lot of equity. There's a very good chance that we have the best hand, and even if we don't we still have a ton of equity for our draw(s). On the con side, there is a non-negligible chance that we don't have the best hand. Those times when we don't have the best hand I'm not sure how much fold equity we have. Sometimes a lot, others none at all.

When all is said & done I like building the sidepot.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
Answers are rated on a scale of 0-10. 0 being donkorific, 5 being average, 10 being Orange-ish

[/ QUOTE ]

*chuckle*

[fees]

1. $6... 4+ 1 for each limper pretty standard, isolate with position.

2. Unlikely MP has the best hand (assume small pairs are the worst hand), I want to push him out b/c he added $12 dead money and I want his fold equity so im bumping it to $40+ to make him go hard or go home, he will normally go home and we will isolate way ahead most of the time.

3. Have to lead VERY big on this flop, it's a monster flop for us, but our hand's power is like disposable.. we can get there and smash most other hands or not, I want to play this fast to get the money in while we are likely a slight if not monster favorite.

4. Turn as played I call to trap and raise the river, only their we're worried about is like.. 1010 or A10.. uh? which we get stacked by anyway so raising her is horrible b/c all better hands call and we lose and all worse hands fold and we lose value.

5. Calling river is insane, VALUEEEEEEEEE shove its very very very unlikely he has the best hand. (we value shove as opposed to like.. minraising or something b/c it looks like we want to steal the side pot/isolate with the shorty for the main.

[pokerchap]

you are a god. I was suprised at some of ppl's answers then I scrolled down and noticed I had most of the real answers /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[craigthedeac]

Only disagreement from me is that I like shoving river with a LAG image because I think he will call with a lot of worse aces and I'm not worried about being behind.

[orange]

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*chuckle*

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We have to bet the flop for a variety of reasons. The old saying never bet into a dry sidepot is wrong. The river is a super easy raise and most likely a easy shove for value as long as we have an aggroish image we are def going to get called by worse.