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thomastem
03-29-2006, 04:55 PM
Having a slow poker week and I feel like discussing a non-poker topic today. My first time in this forum so take it easy on me.

With so many hoaxers and crackpots the field gets a bad name. There are however a few areas that intrigue me as having possibilities, typically for me the ones that deal directly with the human mind.

I personally have rare sleep events that later unfold. When I say rare, about 1-2 times per year I will have a dream, wake up immidiately with the thought "this was important remember it. If I do not wake abruptly my dreams are not remembered at all.

Growing up as a child I took them as normal and trusted them fully. Once I reached my teens I discounted them as silly and tried to ignore them. The problem is that these few dreams were 100% correct for me and I could not keep discounting them.

Unfortunately these dream have never had lotto numbers in them. Unlike the so-called psychic's for hire I'd have no personal problem cashing in. These dreams have dealt with everyday things to the house I would eventually live in to future jobs.

Now that you know my prejudice on the subject lets get back to the brain. More spcificaly the sleeping brain.

First, sleep itself would be considered odd if it weren't so natural to us. The human body has a forced ratio of wake and sleep, typically 1/3 of our life is dedicated to sleep.

Studies have shown that when we try to cheat the time we owe to sleep that our bodies and brain punish us. Further just getting 8 hours of sleep after a week of neglect does not solve the problem. The body continues to punish until you make up the hours that you owed.

Here's the first question for discussion: What is the purpose of forced sleep either from a evolution or creation standpoint?

When we sleep our brain gives off low level waves of sound that instrumentation can now measure. (I believe it is radio waves but I could be mistaken).

What could possibly be the purpose of creating and giving off "signals" while sleeping? If you heard a device was sending out a signal at certain times of the day every day like clockwork what would you think it's purpose was?

This area of paranormal imo is an area that most intelligent reasonable people can discuss. With so much unknown about the brain and with the odd things that are known about sleep alot of thought on the subject can be debated.

Further regardless of believing evolution, creation, or both in harmony, the question of why do we have to sleep is a complex question.

If we were created why did our creater engineer our bodies to need sleep as surely as we need to digest energy and drink water?

If we evolved what advantage would creatures that must sleep have over those that merely rest awake and aware?

If this subject was already discussed at length I appologize and ask if you could please provide me a link.

billygrippo
03-29-2006, 05:34 PM
ive had dreams that "predict the future". it is simply coincedence.

thomastem
03-29-2006, 05:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
ive had dreams that "predict the future". it is simply coincedence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make this statement as if it is fact. Do you have proof or are you stating an opinion? What do you base this statement on?

bunny
03-29-2006, 06:06 PM
It seems to me that coincidence coupled with a favorable interpretation of events is a likely explanation (without speaking for the other poster) although you could test it if you were curious. You would need to amend your routine - next time you have one of these dreams, email a skeptical friend (or post it here or take some other irrevocable step) outlining what you predict is going to happen. Then reply to it in a few days with your account for what happened which fulfilled your prediction - if it is as uncanny as you say (100% accuracy and occurring once a week) you should generate enough evidence very rapidly to convince any skeptic. My prediction would be that you will a) be innacurate in your predictions or b) be interpreting facts favorably to fit your dreams.

The reason to prefer this explanation to one of premonition is pretty much Occam's razor I guess - this is a simpler explanation as we already know our minds are good at making stories out of disparate facts and that we are biased in interpreting facts in a way that matches our preconceptions. I'd be interested to here an example or two of what you have predicted.

billygrippo
03-29-2006, 06:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]


You make this statement as if it is fact. Do you have proof or are you stating an opinion? What do you base this statement on?

[/ QUOTE ]

next time you have a dream like this, write it down in great detail. then post it/tell someone/mail it to yourself. noone seems to ever have done this.

noone has ever correctly predicted a date/time/person/place/event. dream or not.

its the sheer lack of evidence (like 0 evidence) that makes me so sure of my statement.

thomastem
03-29-2006, 06:19 PM
Bunny,

1-2 times per year not week. Another difficulty is posting this is that I am not getting dates or World events like I am a prophet or something.

I will get a dream and it can be as simple as working with people I have never seen before in a room I've never been and two months later it happens. Posting stuff like this would prove nothing and most people (I would in your shoes) would think it is BS.

Now what I had hoped is that people discuss the sleep questions I posed rather than if my perception of my dreams are off. I can't prove it nor do I care to I wrote about so you would understand why I find the subject of sleep facinating and where my viewpoint comes from.

Unless there is proof that the dreams are a false perception it is useless to me and I do not blame anyone for doubting I see future events in my life. How about the other questions I posed any interest in discussing them?

chezlaw
03-29-2006, 06:29 PM
If your dreams regularly come true then you're doing it wrong.

chez

billygrippo
03-29-2006, 06:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If your dreams regularly come true then you're doing it wrong.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

BIMO

bunny
03-29-2006, 08:43 PM
I guess I responded to what I thought I might have a useful viewpoint on, sorry about that. I still think you could test it though if you were interested (as a tangent to your original post). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I find sleep a mystery like you do - maybe Rduke can shed some light?

chezlaw
03-29-2006, 09:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I responded to what I thought I might have a useful viewpoint on, sorry about that. I still think you could test it though if you were interested (as a tangent to your original post). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I find sleep a mystery like you do - maybe Rduke can shed some light?

[/ QUOTE ]
When awake you can hunt, hide, reproduce etc but at the cost of energy expenditure.

When asleep you conserve energy but cannot hunt, hide, reproduce etc.

Compare the stratagies of sleeping during the night vs allways being awake and it may be that sleeping at night has the greater ev.

There may be other advantages as well, such as faster repair of damage and increased chance of conception.

chez

purnell
03-29-2006, 09:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I responded to what I thought I might have a useful viewpoint on, sorry about that. I still think you could test it though if you were interested (as a tangent to your original post). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I find sleep a mystery like you do - maybe Rduke can shed some light?

[/ QUOTE ]
When awake you can hunt, hide, reproduce etc but at the cost of energy expenditure.

When asleep you conserve energy but cannot hunt, hide, reproduce etc.

Compare the stratagies of sleeping during the night vs allways being awake and it may be that sleeping at night has the greater ev.

There may be other advantages as well, such as faster repair of damage and increased chance of conception.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

I would also guess that it is more difficult for a predator to find a young animal while it is asleep, and thus it would be more likely to survive to reproductive maturity.

AceofSpades
03-29-2006, 11:17 PM
I think the answer is that no one really knows why we sleep, only that it keeps us sane.

chezlaw
03-30-2006, 04:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think the answer is that no one really knows why we sleep, only that it keeps us sane.

[/ QUOTE ]
maybe but it doesn't seem intractable.

Simple preditor-prey modeling might show that hiding away and doing nothing for fairly long periods of time is a good stratagy at certain times of day. Then it would make sense to minimise energy consumption during that time.

The other benefits of sleep could have evolved afterwards.


chez

madnak
03-30-2006, 06:19 AM
Why We Sleep. (http://www.sciamdigital.com/gsp_qpdf.cfm?ISSUEID_CHAR=21777B52-2B35-221B-6738FEA889BC7A39&ARTICLEID_CHAR=218E0E21-2B35-221B-6D491CCB9DE98C17) Interesting article.

I've seen some things I can't explain. Generally I try to see them as just that. Not coincidences or paranormal events but things I can't explain. Coincidence isn't an adequate explanation, but neither are wild hypotheses based on extremely limited information.