STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!1!!1

[jman220]

I'm sick and tired of this "OMG I GOT BAD BEAT, I HAD A POCKET PAIR AND ALL YOU HAD WAS OVERCARDS!"

Preflop, a pocket pair only has 2 outs to improve,overcards have 6! (This is not even taking into account straight and flush draws!) That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand. So stop whining morans.

[Mason Hellmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. <font color="white">And this is not nearly as funny as Sponger's.</font>

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. <font color="white">And this is not nearly as funny as Sponger's.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

DO THE MATH MORAN! POCKET PAIR OUTS: 2. OVERCARD OUTS: 6. 2:6=1:3. OVERCARDS ARE A 3:1 FAVORITE.

You must really suck at poker.

[pipes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. <font color="white">And this is not nearly as funny as Sponger's.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

DO THE MATH MORAN! POCKET PAIR OUTS: 2. OVERCARD OUTS: 6. 2:6=1:3. OVERCARDS ARE A 3:1 FAVORITE.

You must really suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol I hope you understand the error in your logic...

You'll need a couple of promotions to get to azz clown status, moran.

[henrikrh]

NOOOO AKs has only one suit, hence can only make one type of flush, therefore pocket pair has double the flush outs, 11 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for AK /images/graemlins/heart.gif, whereas 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif has 12 /images/graemlins/spade.gifs and 12 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs to catch!!!

pocket pairs are big favouritessss

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. <font color="white">And this is not nearly as funny as Sponger's.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

DO THE MATH MORAN! POCKET PAIR OUTS: 2. OVERCARD OUTS: 6. 2:6=1:3. OVERCARDS ARE A 3:1 FAVORITE.

You must really suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol I hope you understand the error in your logic...

You'll need a couple of promotions to get to azz clown status, moran.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how you are this dumb. This is like first grade arithmetic, reducing fractions. Seriously, you just lost all credibility on these forums. Please tell me your name on Party Poker so I can add you to my buddy list.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
NOOOO AKs has only one suit, hence can only make one type of flush, therefore pocket pair has double the flush outs, 11 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for AK /images/graemlins/heart.gif, whereas 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif has 12 /images/graemlins/spade.gifs and 12 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs to catch!!!

pocket pairs are big favouritessss

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not properly discounting outs in the fact that pocket pairs need runner/runner to make their flush. And I was talking about unsuited as well as suited overcards, moran.

[Baloosh]

This is the best thread ever.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
This is the best thread ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank You. I'm just so sick of the whining on these boards "Waah Waah, I lost with AA to KQ." KQ HAD SIX OUTS TO IMPROVE IDIOT, YOU ONLY HAD TWO!

[peritonlogon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is the best thread ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank You. I'm just so sick of the whining on these boards "Waah Waah, I lost with AA to KQ." KQ HAD SIX OUTS TO IMPROVE IDIOT, YOU ONLY HAD TWO!

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I hate suckers who whine

[gabbahh]

tl;dr

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]

Speak English Moran.

[topbrelan]

You say 3:1 fav to improve for overcards -- haven't you ignored the fact that the pocket pair doesn't have to improve to win or is this thread a joke? It seems like all the threads under this topic have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[Thremp]

[ QUOTE ]
You say 3:1 fav to improve for overcards -- haven't you ignored the fact that the pocket pair doesn't have to improve to win or is this thread a joke? It seems like all the threads under this topic have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[/ QUOTE ]

I was about to ask the same thing... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Mason Hellmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like all the threads in this forum have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[/ QUOTE ]

[Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
You say 3:1 fav to improve for overcards -- haven't you ignored the fact that the pocket pair doesn't have to improve to win or is this thread a joke? It seems like all the threads under this topic have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Poepsnoet/orly.jpg

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You say 3:1 fav to improve for overcards -- haven't you ignored the fact that the pocket pair doesn't have to improve to win or is this thread a joke? It seems like all the threads under this topic have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.hjo3.net/orly/gal1/orly_owl.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

The picture isn't working, please fix it.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
You say 3:1 fav to improve for overcards -- haven't you ignored the fact that the pocket pair doesn't have to improve to win or is this thread a joke? It seems like all the threads under this topic have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[/ QUOTE ]

You're an idiot. You clearly don't understand meta-game concepts like the ones described by my thread. OMG I HAVE LIKE 1600 POSTS AND YOU HAVE 70, STFU NOOB.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You say 3:1 fav to improve for overcards -- haven't you ignored the fact that the pocket pair doesn't have to improve to win or is this thread a joke? It seems like all the threads under this topic have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[/ QUOTE ]

I was about to ask the same thing... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't understand the simple math in this thread then you should definitely cry, and go back to first grade. People with less than 50 posts shouldn't be allowed to post, theyr'e always so dumb.

[yvesaint]

dude ....think i overplayed this?? WTF THIS IS THE STORY OF MY MTT LIFE

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

UTG+1 (t20437)
MP1 (t7176)
MP2 (t12135)
MP3 (t4580)
CO (t19384)
Hero (t5000)
SB (t14085)
BB (t7280)
UTG (t11083)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t600</font>, CO calls t600, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t5000</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t3980 (All-In), CO calls t4400.

Flop: (t15255) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t15255) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t15255) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t15255

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
MP3 has Kh Kd (flush, king high).
CO has 4c 4h (two pair, queens and fours).
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: MP3 wins t14415. Hero wins t840. </font>

[Black Aces 518]

This would be much better if CO had the 4d instead. He is a real man of genius.

[lonn19]

Hey idiot, the difference is with a pocket pair, you don't have to improve.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey idiot, the difference is with a pocket pair, you don't have to improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Idiot, how is that at all relevant to the fact that because overcards have more outs they are a 3:1 favorite? You determine odds by calculating your outs moran.

[shmoosh]

The pocket pair is a about a 55% favorite to win the hand. I agree that a pair losing to overcards is not a bad beat, but it is a small favorite nonetheless.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
The pocket pair is a about a 55% favorite to win the hand. I agree that a pair losing to overcards is not a bad beat, but it is a small favorite nonetheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

The overcards are 75% to win you [censored] idiot. How can people be soo retarded. Did you even read my post? Can you reduce fractions?

[Neuge]

[ QUOTE ]
dude ....think i overplayed this?? WTF THIS IS THE STORY OF MY MTT LIFE

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

UTG+1 (t20437)
MP1 (t7176)
MP2 (t12135)
MP3 (t4580)
CO (t19384)
Hero (t5000)
SB (t14085)
BB (t7280)
UTG (t11083)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t600</font>, CO calls t600, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t5000</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t3980 (All-In), CO calls t4400.

Flop: (t15255) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t15255) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t15255) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t15255

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
MP3 has Kh Kd (flush, king high).
CO has 4c 4h (two pair, queens and fours).
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: MP3 wins t14415. Hero wins t840. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]Obviously. They had 4 outs to beat you. You only had 2. 2:1 you get knocked out there.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude ....think i overplayed this?? WTF THIS IS THE STORY OF MY MTT LIFE

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

UTG+1 (t20437)
MP1 (t7176)
MP2 (t12135)
MP3 (t4580)
CO (t19384)
Hero (t5000)
SB (t14085)
BB (t7280)
UTG (t11083)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t600</font>, CO calls t600, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t5000</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t3980 (All-In), CO calls t4400.

Flop: (t15255) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t15255) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t15255) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t15255

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
MP3 has Kh Kd (flush, king high).
CO has 4c 4h (two pair, queens and fours).
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: MP3 wins t14415. Hero wins t840. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]Obviously. They had 4 outs to beat you. You only had 2. 2:1 you get knocked out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct. Of course, he was getting 2:1 on his money, so preflop this was an EV neutral situation. And since you want to get your money in when you have the best of it, not when the pot odds are dead even, that makes this a fold.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey idiot, the difference is with a pocket pair, you don't have to improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

... its not fun when its this easy

[danzasmack]

this whole bad beat forum is the only reason internet poker will never "dry up" - just when someone learns to play. they'll take a bad beat and post here with the sarcasm button not pressed and read about the doom switch sign on and off 20 times then go all in with 67 and think they are 3:1

[sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You say 3:1 fav to improve for overcards -- haven't you ignored the fact that the pocket pair doesn't have to improve to win or is this thread a joke? It seems like all the threads under this topic have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Poepsnoet/orly.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

holly crap i just choked on some cranberry juice ); nh sir

[Baloosh]

[ QUOTE ]


This is correct. Of course, he was getting 2:1 on his money, so preflop this was an EV neutral situation. And since you want to get your money in when you have the best of it, not when the pot odds are dead even, that makes this a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

But wait, for that whole probability thing, don't you have to subtract some number from 1 to get the actual probability number?

So in your example, 1 - 2:1 would yield -1:0, or in other words any number divided by zero is 1, so mathematically, you were 1:1 to lose that hand, which is pretty close to 100% actually. This is a fold every time, if you care anything at all about Sklansky dollars.

And 4:1 odds makes it even worse. Using the math, that works out to over 175% against you winning with Pocket Aces against any 2 random cards.

Math is hard, but playing Pocket Aces is not. FOLD.

[bdmcgraw]

THE FIRST SEVEN TROLL POSTS WERE FUNNY. THEY ARENT FUNNY ANYMORE

[Ya_Fooboo]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank You. I'm just so sick of the whining on these boards "Waah Waah, I lost with AA to KQ." KQ HAD SIX OUTS TO IMPROVE IDIOT, YOU ONLY HAD TWO!

[/ QUOTE ]

Realize in this example that AA is a made hand and KQ has to improve. This is where the error of you math comes in. But I don't think you were talking about AA vs. xx. I though (at first) you were talking about (for example) QQ vs. AK or 99 vs. KJs.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
THE FIRST SEVEN TROLL POSTS WERE FUNNY. THEY ARENT FUNNY ANYMORE

[/ QUOTE ]

IF YOU MAKE A POST ON THIS BOARD THAT ISN'T A TROLL POST THEN YOU SUCK AT POKER.

[Shajen]

dids:

In this new age of enlightenment, realize the O RLY owl is played out.

You need to gain some knowledge:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2246/ohrry10xc2jb.png

PS: OP is correct. You all suck at poker.

[Baloosh]

[ QUOTE ]
THE FIRST SEVEN TROLL POSTS WERE FUNNY. THEY ARENT FUNNY ANYMORE

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure screaming about it got your point across all that much more. Do you feel better now?

[Emon96]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude ....think i overplayed this?? WTF THIS IS THE STORY OF MY MTT LIFE

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

UTG+1 (t20437)
MP1 (t7176)
MP2 (t12135)
MP3 (t4580)
CO (t19384)
Hero (t5000)
SB (t14085)
BB (t7280)
UTG (t11083)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t600</font>, CO calls t600, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t5000</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t3980 (All-In), CO calls t4400.

Flop: (t15255) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t15255) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t15255) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t15255

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
MP3 has Kh Kd (flush, king high).
CO has 4c 4h (two pair, queens and fours).
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: MP3 wins t14415. Hero wins t840. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]Obviously. They had 4 outs to beat you. You only had 2. 2:1 you get knocked out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you whining about...you all had the same two outs to win...which means you were all 50%. Imagine winning that pot and getting 150%!!!

[Eder]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


This is correct. Of course, he was getting 2:1 on his money, so preflop this was an EV neutral situation. And since you want to get your money in when you have the best of it, not when the pot odds are dead even, that makes this a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

But wait, for that whole probability thing, don't you have to subtract some number from 1 to get the actual probability number?

So in your example, 1 - 2:1 would yield -1:0, or in other words any number divided by zero is 1, so mathematically, you were 1:1 to lose that hand, which is pretty close to 100% actually. This is a fold every time, if you care anything at all about Sklansky dollars.

And 4:1 odds makes it even worse. Using the math, that works out to over 175% against you winning with Pocket Aces against any 2 random cards.

Math is hard, but playing Pocket Aces is not. FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I could find a CALL here ...aces are dominated, but implied odds make a call correct?

[shmoosh]

lol You got me

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


This is correct. Of course, he was getting 2:1 on his money, so preflop this was an EV neutral situation. And since you want to get your money in when you have the best of it, not when the pot odds are dead even, that makes this a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

But wait, for that whole probability thing, don't you have to subtract some number from 1 to get the actual probability number?

So in your example, 1 - 2:1 would yield -1:0, or in other words any number divided by zero is 1, so mathematically, you were 1:1 to lose that hand, which is pretty close to 100% actually. This is a fold every time, if you care anything at all about Sklansky dollars.

And 4:1 odds makes it even worse. Using the math, that works out to over 175% against you winning with Pocket Aces against any 2 random cards.

Math is hard, but playing Pocket Aces is not. FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I could find a CALL here ...aces are dominated, but implied odds make a call correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I've thought about it some more. And like I said, from a strict pot odds point, its EV neutral, you all have a 1:3 shot of winning and you're all getting 3:1 on your money. Assuming you play well postflop and can outplay your opponents if you hit your outs, then yeah, implied odds may make this worth a call.

[Huggie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. <font color="white">And this is not nearly as funny as Sponger's.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

DO THE MATH MORAN! POCKET PAIR OUTS: 2. OVERCARD OUTS: 6. 2:6=1:3. OVERCARDS ARE A 3:1 FAVORITE.

You must really suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
LEARN TO SPELL MORON, MORON!
You must really suck at English.

[lotus776]

if you run any pckt pr. in a program that plays EVERY possible hand then you will realize that the 55% to 45% favorite that pckt prs have is true

pokerstove.com &lt;-------------try it yourself

and calm down

[lotus776]

moron is spelled with two o's...moron...you moron

[Georgia Avenue]

Moran is actually spelled:
i...
n...
t...
e...
r...
n...
e....
t...

[lotus776]

you have a very high opinion of yourself JMAN. relax please

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. <font color="white">And this is not nearly as funny as Sponger's.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

DO THE MATH MORAN! POCKET PAIR OUTS: 2. OVERCARD OUTS: 6. 2:6=1:3. OVERCARDS ARE A 3:1 FAVORITE.

You must really suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
LEARN TO SPELL MORON, MORON!
You must really suck at English.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of these days (soon) you're going to look back on this post, and realize how wrong, and silly you were.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. <font color="white">And this is not nearly as funny as Sponger's.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

DO THE MATH MORAN! POCKET PAIR OUTS: 2. OVERCARD OUTS: 6. 2:6=1:3. OVERCARDS ARE A 3:1 FAVORITE.

You must really suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
I JUST GOT HERE AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON

And I really suck at life.

[/ QUOTE ]


FYP new guy

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
if you run any pckt pr. in a program that plays EVERY possible hand then you will realize that the 55% to 45% favorite that pckt prs have is true

pokerstove.com &lt;-------------try it yourself

and calm down

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that you still don't understand this thread after 30 posts is really quite a testament to how awesome this forum is. The math is all there, I don't need a silly program to tell me how to reduce fractions. The fact that you do is very sad.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you run any pckt pr. in a program that plays EVERY possible hand then you will realize that the 55% to 45% favorite that pckt prs have is true

pokerstove.com &lt;-------------try it yourself

and calm down

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that you still don't understand this thread after 30 posts is really quite a testament to how awesome this forum is. The math is all there, I don't need a silly program to tell me how to reduce fractions. The fact that you do is very sad.

[/ QUOTE ]


this thread made me realize what "beats" means

[TheMainEvent]

This thread is really laming up the forum right now

[lotus776]

all that you ever say is that everyone is a "moran" or that they suck...then why are you giving them the time of day? why are you wasting your breath...you're obviously very very upset over this arguement...let it go. What is wrong with you? just let it go

[Stratman]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sick and tired of this "OMG I GOT BAD BEAT, I HAD A POCKET PAIR AND ALL YOU HAD WAS OVERCARDS!"

Preflop, a pocket pair only has 2 outs to improve,overcards have 6! (This is not even taking into account straight and flush draws!) That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand. So stop whining morans.

[/ QUOTE ]

Morans, I think thats a city in Michigan

[lotus776]

hmm..yeah it is

[Stratman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The pocket pair is a about a 55% favorite to win the hand. I agree that a pair losing to overcards is not a bad beat, but it is a small favorite nonetheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

The overcards are 75% to win you [censored] idiot. How can people be soo retarded. Did you even read my post? Can you reduce fractions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your pulling our leg, right

[Stratman]

[ QUOTE ]
moron is spelled with two o's...moron...you moron

[/ QUOTE ]
Mooran?

[joy2mike]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sick and tired of this "OMG I GOT BAD BEAT, I HAD A POCKET PAIR AND ALL YOU HAD WAS OVERCARDS!"

Preflop, a pocket pair only has 2 outs to improve,overcards have 6! (This is not even taking into account straight and flush draws!) That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand. So stop whining morans.

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually you're more like 4:1 cause of the chance that someone else at the table already folded one of the pair's outs!!!!

[Surf]

i was having a rough night (i love that i can post whines here and noone cares) but after reading this thread and nearly dying laughing I think I can handle it again.

Thank you so very much. I &lt;3 this forum.

Oh ya, you forgot that overcards have more cards to make straights with. A PP can only use the 1 card, while overs can use 2.

I'll fix your math:

Overcards: 6 outs to improve x 2 straights = 12
PP : 2outs to improve X1 staright x2flushes = 4

Overs are 3:1 favorite. Your math was wrong.

Surf

[CybrPunk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The pocket pair is a about a 55% favorite to win the hand. I agree that a pair losing to overcards is not a bad beat, but it is a small favorite nonetheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

The overcards are 75% to win you [censored] idiot. How can people be soo retarded. Did you even read my post? Can you reduce fractions?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right and every poker calculator on earth that calculates these statistics is wrong. The experts that run this forum are wrong too, seeing how these stats are published in their books. The geniuses on the probability forum are also wrong. In fact, we're all wrong and morans (learn to spell, MORON!) and you're the only person here that knows how to play poker. Your 1600 posts clearly indicates that.

Or perhaps it just means you can type....

[popniklas]

This is not funny. Not at all.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
People with less than 50 posts shouldn't be allowed to post, theyr'e always so dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

If people with less than 50 posts aren't allowed to post, how will they ever get more than 50 posts?

[tomdemaine]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not funny. Not at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong

[Baloosh]

[ QUOTE ]

You're right and every poker calculator on earth that calculates these statistics is wrong. The experts that run this forum are wrong too, seeing how these stats are published in their books. The geniuses on the probability forum are also wrong. In fact, we're all wrong and morans (learn to spell, MORON!) and you're the only person here that knows how to play poker. Your 1600 posts clearly indicates that.

Or perhaps it just means you can type....

[/ QUOTE ]

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Or maybe he's being level 2 sarcastic. :mindfuck:

[Stealthy]

I must not get dragged into a wind-up thread, I must not get dragged into a wind-up thread, I must not get dragged into a wind-up thread, I must not get dragged into a wind-up thread, I must not get dragged into a wind-up thread, I must not get dragged into a wind-up thread.

[twoakers]

I love this site. We can all read and respond to questions and thoughts that oftentimes have no resolution. Arguing about whether getting beat with 8-8 by two overcards is truly a "bad beat" is like trying to get everyone to agree on the BCS fiasco in college football. I hope there's never a resolution, because that wopuld ruin much of the fun. By the way, I agree that the pair is only about a 53% to 47% favorite -vs- two overcards, meaning in no way can this be called a bad beat.

[udbrky]

KQ needs 2 cards to improve. If it hits one of its outs, it's still an underdog to aces. A pair of aces is better than a pair of kings or queens.

The lower the pocket pair, the better possibility that overcards will flop. Petriv's Holdem Odds Book has the odds of overcards hitting the flop for any pocket pair on page 99.

[NinjaMan]

[ QUOTE ]
KQ needs 2 cards to improve. If it hits one of its outs, it's still an underdog to aces. A pair of aces is better than a pair of kings or queens.

The lower the pocket pair, the better possibility that overcards will flop. Petriv's Holdem Odds Book has the odds of overcards hitting the flop for any pocket pair on page 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, quit being such a moran.

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[wdead]

The best part of this thread is where the noobs try to respond with their faulty logic. [censored] noobs.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People with less than 50 posts shouldn't be allowed to post, theyr'e always so dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

If people with less than 50 posts aren't allowed to post, how will they ever get more than 50 posts?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your point?

[MattSuspect]

User has been ignored

You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif this forum

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Petriv's Holdem Odds Book

[/ QUOTE ]

Your problem is that you are reading crap like this. Read a 2+2 book and maybe you can understand my math, moran.

I recommend this one:

http://www.bdids.com/images/PSAPbackb.jpg

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
learn to spell, MORON!

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.midnightmadness.org/jeff/ljimages/moran-moron.jpg

[TJSWAN]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Petriv's Holdem Odds Book

[/ QUOTE ]

Your problem is that you are reading crap like this. Read a 2+2 book and maybe you can understand my math, moran.

I recommend this one:

http://www.bdids.com/images/PSAPbackb.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif priceless, especially the ' Bluff call '

Tim

[young Nut]

[ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAVE LIKE 1600 POSTS AND YOU HAVE 70, STFU NOOB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good God, its posters like you that make this site unbearable sometimes.

[ZenMusician]

Don't you know Post Count = Poker Skill?

I'm still building mine...

-ZEN

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAVE LIKE 1600 POSTS AND YOU HAVE 70, STFU NOOB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good God, its posters like you that make this site unbearable sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good God, the inability of some people to detect ridiculously over the top sarcasm makes this site hilarious sometimes.

[AJFenix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAVE LIKE 1600 POSTS AND YOU HAVE 70, STFU NOOB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good God, its posters like you that make this site unbearable sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good God, the inability of some people to detect ridiculously over the top sarcasm makes this site hilarious sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly. Morans.

[Pandoras Box42]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sick and tired of this "OMG I GOT BAD BEAT, I HAD A POCKET PAIR AND ALL YOU HAD WAS OVERCARDS!"

Preflop, a pocket pair only has 2 outs to improve,overcards have 6! (This is not even taking into account straight and flush draws!) That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand. So stop whining morans.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a joke right?

[jonnyd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Petriv's Holdem Odds Book

[/ QUOTE ]

Your problem is that you are reading crap like this. Read a 2+2 book and maybe you can understand my math, moran.

I recommend this one:

http://www.bdids.com/images/PSAPbackb.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

oh god that is too good.
bluff call hahaha

[fold preflop]

Dont laugh at the bluff call. When people call my bets i think oh [censored], i must be beat.

[Mr_J]

Looks like this thread is full of uptight wannabes. Nice location.

[Mr_J]

[ QUOTE ]

http://www.bdids.com/images/PSAPbackb.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best picture I've seen since predator vs tyra banks.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

http://www.bdids.com/images/PSAPbackb.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best picture I've seen since predator vs tyra banks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link?

[Daniture]

wow, who knew there was some many morans on this board.

If you wanna really get good at poker study chapter 4 good and hard.

[woodguy]

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/img/912217aabf18_sarcasm_detector.jpg

[pokergrader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Petriv's Holdem Odds Book

[/ QUOTE ]

Your problem is that you are reading crap like this. Read a 2+2 book and maybe you can understand my math, moran.

I recommend this one:

http://www.bdids.com/images/PSAPbackb.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Chapter 3 is brilliant.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

Jman,

This thread is your best work, easy.

[jman220]

Happy New Years, Morans.

[jman220]

Some superdonk just sucked out on my AK with his overplayed KK preflop and its really pissing me off. Moran!

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
Some superdonk just sucked out on my AK with his overplayed KK preflop and its really pissing me off. Moran!

[/ QUOTE ]

that blows

I recommend you play hands like 98s and 87s - they still have 6 outs pair-wise, but they make MORE straights than AK

actually play any hand with a 10 or a 5 in it cause you need those cards to make a straight - happy fishing!

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some superdonk just sucked out on my AK with his overplayed KK preflop and its really pissing me off. Moran!

[/ QUOTE ]

that blows

I recommend you play hands like 98s and 87s - they still have 6 outs pair-wise, but they make MORE straights than AK

actually play any hand with a 10 or a 5 in it cause you need those cards to make a straight - happy fishing!

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with 10/5 offsuit is that it soo frequently gives you odds to draw for a better hand after the flop that your pfa goes down and you lose sklansky bucks.

[tom10167]

^How do you have so many posts and know absolutely nothing about anything?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
^How do you have so many posts and know absolutely nothing about anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

How about you refute my argument instead of making a blanket accusation that does not disprove the facts I state in my post? Honestly, morans.

[T.J. Combo]

I've seen more people go broke on AK than any other hand, mainly because they think it's a made hand like AA or KK. Even after it misses on the flop, they'll hang in there praying to make a pair.

AK vs. KK is a 3 outer though. Kinda like bringing a knife to a gunfight. /images/graemlins/smile.gif If the flop is Q, J, 10, you're sitting pretty. Or if it's suited and you hit your flush on the flop, you're sitting pretty. If someone raises over 10X the BB and you think they're holding KK when you have A,K. . . it's a great play to fold that sucker. It's nicknamed Big Slick because it slips so easily into the muck. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Don't get me wrong, AK is a great hand, I'll play it every time, at least to the flop, but if it misses the flop, you need to toss it IMMEDIATELY.

[T.J. Combo]

P.S.

Pocket pairs vs. Overcards is a case of realistically vs. Potentially.

Realistically: KK holder has a pair of kings.
Potentially: KK holder has four of a kind, kings.

Realistically: A,K suited holder has high card ace, king kicker.
Potentially: AK suited holder has a royal flush.

Realistically, you win way more hands with a pair of kings than with high card ace, king kicker. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Potentially: OMG AKs IS SUCH grEAT hand morans

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen more people go broke on AK than any other hand, mainly because they think it's a made hand like AA or KK. Even after it misses on the flop, they'll hang in there praying to make a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if it misses the flop its got 6 outs versus a pocket pair's 3 outs. The hand with more outs is the better hand.


[ QUOTE ]
AK vs. KK is a 3 outer though.

[/ QUOTE ]

KK is dominated, its sharing one of its outs with the AK, AK has 3 outs, KK only has 1!

[ChuckyB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Petriv's Holdem Odds Book

[/ QUOTE ]

Your problem is that you are reading crap like this. Read a 2+2 book and maybe you can understand my math, moran.

I recommend this one:

http://www.bdids.com/images/PSAPbackb.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Beyond awesome!

[adamburley]

reading this thread is two minutes of my life i will never get back.

[GAL]

jman, are you saying AK when it misses the flop is fav over a PP? NO ITS NOT. True the AK has 6 outs but the PP has 2 outs to make trips and 9 outs (pairing any of the flop cards) to make 2 pair. Thats 12 outs against the AKs 6 outs, 12/6=2 so the PP is 2/1 fav but since there are 2 cards to come 2/2=1 its even money. Hence the phrase coinflip for PPs vs AK.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
jman, are you saying AK when it misses the flop is fav over a PP? NO ITS NOT. True the AK has 6 outs but the PP has 2 outs to make trips and 9 outs (pairing any of the flop cards) to make 2 pair. Thats 12 outs against the AKs 6 outs, 12/6=2 so the PP is 2/1 fav but since there are 2 cards to come 2/2=1 its even money. Hence the phrase coinflip for PPs vs AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "coinflip" is a common misconception. First, the "9 outs" you refer to to "pair any of the flop cards" exists for the overcards too, so those can't be addressed here. Its very simple, the better hand in poker is the one with more outs. Clearly, AK has more outs than QQ, therefoer AK is a strong favorte 6 outs versus 2 outs is a 3:1 favorite. Stop overplaying your pocket pairs moran!

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman, are you saying AK when it misses the flop is fav over a PP? NO ITS NOT. True the AK has 6 outs but the PP has 2 outs to make trips and 9 outs (pairing any of the flop cards) to make 2 pair. Thats 12 outs against the AKs 6 outs, 12/6=2 so the PP is 2/1 fav but since there are 2 cards to come 2/2=1 its even money. Hence the phrase coinflip for PPs vs AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "coinflip" is a common misconception. First, the "9 outs" you refer to to "pair any of the flop cards" exists for the overcards too, so those can't be addressed here. Its very simple, the better hand in poker is the one with more outs. Clearly, AK has more outs than QQ, therefoer AK is a strong favorte 6 outs versus 2 outs is a 3:1 favorite. Stop overplaying your pocket pairs moran!

[/ QUOTE ]

jman - did you ever address the fact that, since the flop has 3 cards, they have 18 outs (3*6 outs) to counterfeit the pair, thus giving AK EVEN MORE OUTS!!! not to mention quads on the board!

it's a wonder AK is only a 3:1 favourite

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman, are you saying AK when it misses the flop is fav over a PP? NO ITS NOT. True the AK has 6 outs but the PP has 2 outs to make trips and 9 outs (pairing any of the flop cards) to make 2 pair. Thats 12 outs against the AKs 6 outs, 12/6=2 so the PP is 2/1 fav but since there are 2 cards to come 2/2=1 its even money. Hence the phrase coinflip for PPs vs AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "coinflip" is a common misconception. First, the "9 outs" you refer to to "pair any of the flop cards" exists for the overcards too, so those can't be addressed here. Its very simple, the better hand in poker is the one with more outs. Clearly, AK has more outs than QQ, therefoer AK is a strong favorte 6 outs versus 2 outs is a 3:1 favorite. Stop overplaying your pocket pairs moran!

[/ QUOTE ]

jman - did you ever address the fact that, since the flop has 3 cards, they have 18 outs (3*6 outs) to counterfeit the pair, thus giving AK EVEN MORE OUTS!!! not to mention quads on the board!

it's a wonder AK is only a 3:1 favourite

[/ QUOTE ]

indeed.

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, who knew there was some many morans on this board.

If you wanna really get good at poker study chapter 4 good and hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carefull! These poker writers aren't idiots. The put filling up on the river as the last chapter knowing that no one reads that far. AFter you read chapter 4 and go all gung ho with your sets the real "pros" will be raking your cahs with their straights and flushes. Read chapter 8!

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wow, who knew there was some many morans on this board.

If you wanna really get good at poker study chapter 4 good and hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carefull! These poker writers aren't idiots. The put filling up on the river as the last chapter knowing that no one reads that far. AFter you read chapter 4 and go all gung ho with your sets the real "pros" will be raking your cahs with their straights and flushes. Read chapter 8!

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You say 3:1 fav to improve for overcards -- haven't you ignored the fact that the pocket pair doesn't have to improve to win or is this thread a joke? It seems like all the threads under this topic have some underlying sarcasm to them...

[/ QUOTE ]

I was about to ask the same thing... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't understand the simple math in this thread then you should definitely cry, and go back to first grade. People with less than 50 posts shouldn't be allowed to post, theyr'e always so dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted because Sponger has just made a post in ATF asking for a similar rule. HERE (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=6462417&amp;an=0&amp;page=0#Post 6462417)

[Five-Star]

[ QUOTE ]
reading this thread is two minutes of my life i will never get back.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 minutes? wow

[Kala1928]

3:1 is the new coinflip

[bottomset]

when I was still new to 2+2, I used to think that all the posters were winning players. I have since realized how ignorant I was back then, this thread is a good reminder

[Andrew Karpinski]

[ QUOTE ]
3:1 is the new coinflip

[/ QUOTE ]

rigged

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
when I was still new to 2+2, I used to think that all the posters were winning players. I have since realized how ignorant I was back then, this thread is a good reminder

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, all the people who posted in this thread arguing that I was wrong are clearly losing players. Do you see why?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
3:1 is the new coinflip

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats because a head is considerably heavier than a tail.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3:1 is the new coinflip

[/ QUOTE ]

rigged

[/ QUOTE ]

People who think online poker is rigged only do because they're too dense to realize that when their pocket pairs get "cracked," thats not a bad beat, they were in fact 3:1 dogs.

[CheckRaise]

I /images/graemlins/heart.gif this thread, jman you are a true innovator

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
I /images/graemlins/heart.gif this thread, jman you are a true poker theorist

[/ QUOTE ]

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
I /images/graemlins/heart.gif this thread, jman you are a true innovator

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you, I try.

[RikaKazak]

OH MY GOD!!! This is SO HILARIOUS!!!

[KOTLP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman, are you saying AK when it misses the flop is fav over a PP? NO ITS NOT. True the AK has 6 outs but the PP has 2 outs to make trips and 9 outs (pairing any of the flop cards) to make 2 pair. Thats 12 outs against the AKs 6 outs, 12/6=2 so the PP is 2/1 fav but since there are 2 cards to come 2/2=1 its even money. Hence the phrase coinflip for PPs vs AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "coinflip" is a common misconception. First, the "9 outs" you refer to to "pair any of the flop cards" exists for the overcards too, so those can't be addressed here. Its very simple, the better hand in poker is the one with more outs. Clearly, AK has more outs than QQ, therefoer AK is a strong favorte 6 outs versus 2 outs is a 3:1 favorite. Stop overplaying your pocket pairs moran!

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. How do these morans not understand this simple math. AK BEATS POCKET PAIRS MORANS. Hell, it beats 9 AT THE SAME TIME.

Hand 1: 19.4081 % 19.33% 00.07% { AcKc }
Hand 2: 02.9314 % 02.86% 00.07% { 2d2h }
Hand 3: 03.6356 % 03.56% 00.07% { 3d3h }
Hand 4: 04.7415 % 04.67% 00.07% { 5d5h }
Hand 5: 05.8628 % 05.79% 00.07% { 6d6h }
Hand 6: 07.4459 % 07.37% 00.07% { 7d7h }
Hand 7: 09.3428 % 09.27% 00.07% { 8d8h }
Hand 8: 12.1555 % 12.08% 00.07% { 9d9h }
Hand 9: 15.5869 % 15.51% 00.07% { TdTh }
Hand 10: 18.8896 % 18.82% 00.07% { JdJh }

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman, are you saying AK when it misses the flop is fav over a PP? NO ITS NOT. True the AK has 6 outs but the PP has 2 outs to make trips and 9 outs (pairing any of the flop cards) to make 2 pair. Thats 12 outs against the AKs 6 outs, 12/6=2 so the PP is 2/1 fav but since there are 2 cards to come 2/2=1 its even money. Hence the phrase coinflip for PPs vs AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "coinflip" is a common misconception. First, the "9 outs" you refer to to "pair any of the flop cards" exists for the overcards too, so those can't be addressed here. Its very simple, the better hand in poker is the one with more outs. Clearly, AK has more outs than QQ, therefoer AK is a strong favorte 6 outs versus 2 outs is a 3:1 favorite. Stop overplaying your pocket pairs moran!

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. How do these morans not understand this simple math. AK BEATS POCKET PAIRS MORANS. Hell, it beats 9 AT THE SAME TIME.

Hand 1: 19.4081 % 19.33% 00.07% { AcKc }
Hand 2: 02.9314 % 02.86% 00.07% { 2d2h }
Hand 3: 03.6356 % 03.56% 00.07% { 3d3h }
Hand 4: 04.7415 % 04.67% 00.07% { 5d5h }
Hand 5: 05.8628 % 05.79% 00.07% { 6d6h }
Hand 6: 07.4459 % 07.37% 00.07% { 7d7h }
Hand 7: 09.3428 % 09.27% 00.07% { 8d8h }
Hand 8: 12.1555 % 12.08% 00.07% { 9d9h }
Hand 9: 15.5869 % 15.51% 00.07% { TdTh }
Hand 10: 18.8896 % 18.82% 00.07% { JdJh }

[/ QUOTE ]

That program seems buggy, as I've demonstrated, overcards should be more like 3:1, I mean I guess I didn't calculate it for there being 9 other people, but it still seems too low of an edge.

[Dan Bitel]

jman,

I think you're on to something:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

20,349 games 0.010 secs 2,034,900 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 24.9791 % 24.91% 00.07% { AcAd }
Hand 2: 75.0209 % 74.95% 00.07% { JsTs }

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
jman,

I think you're on to something:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

20,349 games 0.010 secs 2,034,900 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 24.9791 % 24.91% 00.07% { AcAd }
Hand 2: 75.0209 % 74.95% 00.07% { JsTs }

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats awesome that they finally fixed the bug in pokerstove, and it now calculates outs properly. I'll have to download it now.

[Demiparadigm]

[ QUOTE ]
P.S.

Pocket pairs vs. Overcards is a case of realistically vs. Potentially.

Realistically: KK holder has a pair of kings.
Potentially: KK holder has four of a kind, kings.

Realistically: A,K suited holder has high card ace, king kicker.
Potentially: AK suited holder has a royal flush.

Realistically, you win way more hands with a pair of kings than with high card ace, king kicker. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Potentially: OMG AKs IS SUCH grEAT hand morans

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you stated this well, but your point that a straight flush beats 4 of a kind EVERY TIME is an important poker concept that was missing from the OP, and helps to explain why unpaired hands are favored preflop.

[PocketElevens]

Seems to be a lot of mathematically inept here not getting the over cards are favourites concept.

Let me lay it down so simply even an idiot will get it.

AK vs. QQ

Instead of drawing 5 cards I'm going to draw the entire deck and both players choose their best 5 cards.

QQ gets quads

AK gets quad aces if unsuited, and often a royal flush (depending on the queen suits) if suited.

Now I what the "morans" are thinking.

"But we only draw 5 cards!" /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Over time, won't we draw them all?

Debate over.

[Demiparadigm]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems to be a lot of mathematically inept here not getting the over cards are favourites concept.

Let me lay it down so simply even an idiot will get it.

AK vs. QQ

Instead of drawing 5 cards I'm going to draw the entire deck and both players choose their best 5 cards.

QQ gets quads

AK gets quad aces if unsuited, and often a royal flush (depending on the queen suits) if suited.

Now I what the "morans" are thinking.

"But we only draw 5 cards!" /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Over time, won't we draw them all?

Debate over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Genius. I must humbly bow to your prowess for explanation of what should have been a simple concept for everyone.

[PocketElevens]

Thanks, appreciate the kind words.

I thought Id drive the point home with a testimonial from a real life friend of mine who has learned to apply this knowledge.


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6295/chump3su.jpg

[SackUp]

wow i don't know how i missed this thread. jman - effing genius!

[AlwaysAir]

agreed

[InvisibleSoul]

http://i7.tinypic.com/21axuv5.jpg

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
http://i7.tinypic.com/21axuv5.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, all the haters on the OP really dragged down the average IQ of this thread

[Split Suit]

i think i just peed while reading this. just for future reference...can i deduce this sort of math into my Omaha game or no? (I just dont wanna b the 'Moran' that cant do math correctly)

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, appreciate the kind words.

I thought Id drive the point home with a testimonial from a real life friend of mine who has learned to apply this knowledge.


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6295/chump3su.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

lol 20s

[Herrigel]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, appreciate the kind words.

I thought Id drive the point home with a testimonial from a real life friend of mine who has learned to apply this knowledge.


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6295/chump3su.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
How can you ever hold overcards preflop? /images/graemlins/confused.gif
And yes, I'm a nit!

[ObnxNole]

jman..last time i checked most a pocket pairs are AHEAD of any two big cards p flop with some exceptions like 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifvs a /images/graemlins/heart.gifk /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

[ObnxNole]

Dang those are some sweet knives on the wall...that is also one the ugliest men I have ever seen.

[el_dusto]

lol @ 300 dolla balla

[Moonshine]

just when i thought some people on this forum couldnt be any stupider...i find this thread

JMan, you're a genius. thank god this got bumped

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
i think i just peed while reading this. just for future reference...can i deduce this sort of math into my Omaha game or no? (I just dont wanna b the 'Moran' that cant do math correctly)

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience with Omaha is more limited, but the general principle should be the same, a pocket pair is not as good as overcards. However, if you have 3 of a kind or 4 of a kind in your hand, you're ahead of a hand full of overcards, because even if they pair up a bunch of their overcards, its unlikely they'll make a set or quads to beat you.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
jman..last time i checked most a pocket pairs are AHEAD of any two big cards p flop with some exceptions like 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifvs a /images/graemlins/heart.gifk /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong, do the math moran.

[bsheck]

WHY COULDN'T I HIT A DAMN SET!?!

Party Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament
Blinds: t50/t100
9 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: t2785
UTG+1: t2369
MP1: t1300
MP2: t3847
MP3: t1909
CO: t335
Hero: t914
SB: t4481
BB: t2060

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG calls t100 <font color="#aaaaaa">(pot was t150)</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to t450</font>, MP2 calls t450 <font color="#aaaaaa">(pot was t700)</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO calls all-in t335</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in t914</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 calls all-in t850</font>, MP2 calls t850 <font color="#aaaaaa">(pot was t2799)</font>.

Flop: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (t4099, 1 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: t1590, Sidepot 1: t1737, Sidepot 2: t772)


Turn: 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (t4099, 1 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: t1590, Sidepot 1: t1737, Sidepot 2: t772)


River: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (t4099, 1 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: t1590, Sidepot 1: t1737, Sidepot 2: t772)


Results:
Final pot: t4099
MP1 shows 6c Ac 2h Qc </font>
MP2 shows Jd 2c 4c 4h </font>
CO shows 7d Kh Kc 5s </font>
Hero shows 5c 5h Td Ts </font>

[counterspell]

i don't frequent this forum, but i had no idea there were this many any-other-internet-forum quality posters on 2+2. thank you for exposing them, jman. also, i did actually get my lol on.

[Bubbles]

[ QUOTE ]
i did actually get my lol on.

[/ QUOTE ]
You got your lol on?

That expression is beyond gay. Did you come up with it just now?

[Georgia Avenue]

Bubble: You need to stop getting your haterati-on.

[Bigdaddydvo]

Overcards are not only dominant in Hold Em, they also superior when playing "WAR." Drawing A /images/graemlins/heart.gif and K /images/graemlins/heart.gif to your opponent's 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif and 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif results in two easy victories.

[yabastid]

jman,

this whole thread and your responses has made you one of my fav posters. I can't believe I missed this. thank you.

[canada_dry]

Dude are you for real??? Or are you smoking crack?

Think of this way: Overcards need 1 of the remaing 6, or some combo of straight, running flush, or weird paired board to counterfeit lower pair.

Pocket Pair: EVERYTHING ELSE

Net result: pocket pair slight favourite to win 52% i believe.

[lostandgone85]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude are you for real??? Or are you smoking crack?

Think of this way: Overcards need 1 of the remaing 6, or some combo of straight, running flush, or weird paired board to counterfeit lower pair.

Pocket Pair: EVERYTHING ELSE

Net result: pocket pair slight favourite to win 52% i believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol you moran

[Inthacup]

bbv has come a long way

[canada_dry]

what is "moran" ...

learn to spell. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw...

[Slade19]

I feel for Canada Dry...

I've seen a lot of his posts lately and he really... REALLY wants to engage in serious debates. Apparently the sarcas-o-meter some guy sold him is not only broken... but as it turns out is actually just a dead squirrel with some broken keys from a keyboard glued on to make it look high-tech.

Stop picking on the poor guy =/

[meccaNES]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel for Canada Dry...

I've seen a lot of his posts lately and he really... REALLY wants to engage in serious debates. Apparently the sarcas-o-meter some guy sold him is not only broken... but as it turns out is actually just a dead squirrel with some broken keys from a keyboard glued on to make it look high-tech.

Stop picking on the poor guy =/

[/ QUOTE ]

Where can i buy one of these and how much?

[Butso]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sick and tired of this "OMG I GOT BAD BEAT, I HAD A POCKET PAIR AND ALL YOU HAD WAS OVERCARDS!"

Preflop, a pocket pair only has 2 outs to improve,overcards have 6! (This is not even taking into account straight and flush draws!) That means overcards are at least a 3:1 favorite to improve and win the hand. So stop whining morans.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is obv right for unconnected overcards, but connectors like 78 can make a run by hitting a 6 or 9. So they actually have as many as FOURTEEN outs making them a 7:1 favorite over a pocket pair.

[HitmanHoldem]

I guess I've been misinformed from the start about poker. This guy is right! If you have more outs, you have the best hand. Realizing this, I must be playing way too tight. If my opponent overplays his AA and pushes preflop, and I look at my cards and just see a deuce, I'm going to call with that alone. I'll just keep the other card to the side because I won't need it since my 2 has three outs and my opponent's aces only have two.

I really think the OP is really going to help my game in the future.

[Professor_77]

The information contained in this thread is largely untrue. Overcards aren't better because they have more outs, they are better because there are two different ranks and therefore they are more likely to make straights. Straights are better than pairs.

[SharkTank43]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude are you for real??? Or are you smoking crack?

Think of this way: Overcards need 1 of the remaing 6, or some combo of straight, running flush, or weird paired board to counterfeit lower pair.

Pocket Pair: EVERYTHING ELSE

Net result: pocket pair slight favourite to win 52% i believe.

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL.

[kiwi]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel for Canada Dry...

I've seen a lot of his posts lately and he really... REALLY wants to engage in serious debates. Apparently the sarcas-o-meter some guy sold him is not only broken... but as it turns out is actually just a dead squirrel with some broken keys from a keyboard glued on to make it look high-tech.

Stop picking on the poor guy =/

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4827/squvj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Sir P]

I had a vision last night while masterbating, which brought me to this theory.

ok, lets say you have one 6 versus one ace. the ace will hit a straight or flush about 60% of the time while the 6 will only hit around 40, clearly because the ace is higher in value and can go from 10-a and/or a-5.

now, if we add another card to the 6, since hold'em deals with 2 cards,66 versus one ace will have about half the chance of getting a straight or flush because the 6 counterfeits it and lessens the percentage.

this makes the new percentages around 20% for 66 hitting a straight/flush to 80% for just one ace. if I added in the other possibilities, since the ace can win by hitting a pair, trips, full house, quads, or royal flush, then the ace would be about a 89% favorite overall to win. also, since the ace can win by quads coming on the board and having an ace kicker, this bumps it up to 92% to win, and we didnt even add another card to it yet!

I hope you are still following. ok, so mathematically currently the ace is 92% versus 66 who is 8%. we now add a King to the ace, and this doubles the percentage and also halves 66's winning %

the new percentages are approx. 92*2= 214% to 8/2= 4%.

You may be asking, "wait, 214+4 is only 218%? what accounts for the other 782%?"

I'm not finished.

If you think of the numbers as a triangle, there would be an ace on one corner, a king on the other, and a 6 on the final one (since you cannot have two 6s in it). the Ace and King represent 2/3 of the triangle, so now we must multiply 214*2/3= about 200 and add it to the original number.
also, 4*1/3 is 2 so we subtract that and it gives us 2.

now we have AK 414% to win VS 66 2%
this part is frequently overlooked. Most people dont realize they are playing with two cards and view their hole cards as a whole. this makes people forget to multiply the percentage by 2 or divide, if necessary.

we are at 828% and 1% now. almost finished.

back to jman's theory... you are not completely wrong, your ideas do eventually tie in to the intricate problem solving of this situation. since AK has 6 outs while 66 has only 2, we multiply this by the amount of cards in a deck. and this gives us 312 and 104. we simply add/subtract these numbers to our percentiles, giving us 1140% and -103%. If I worked out all these numbers in decimals the -103 would actually be -104, but I thought it was +EV to do it this way.

ok, finally, we must switch the 0 and 4 in -104% for 66's winning chance clearly because you are playing no limit and not pot/fixed limit (if it was pot limit, for example, you would switch the 4 and 1.)

thus, we have 1140% and -140%, added together gives us 1,000% or 1.

I hope this clears things up. AK vs 66 is a 1140% to -140% favorite.

I spent much thinking, time, and money on this project. I have done several experiments that back up my theory.

NOTE: this was not tested with pinochle decks, or when you are playing wrap arounds. also, I am not liable for any losses from applying this strategy to games using blackjack decks. (which decreases ak's winnning percentage drastically)
I know that I do not even have 20 posts, which decreases reliability by 120%, but if you think about it mathematically we all have less that 20 posts.


Thank you for listening and if you need any tips or advice on how to improve your poker game feel free to give me a PM.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I feel for Canada Dry...

I've seen a lot of his posts lately and he really... REALLY wants to engage in serious debates. Apparently the sarcas-o-meter some guy sold him is not only broken... but as it turns out is actually just a dead squirrel with some broken keys from a keyboard glued on to make it look high-tech.

Stop picking on the poor guy =/

[/ QUOTE ]

Where can i buy one of these and how much?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have one of those, but I do have a Powerbook for sale. Here are some pictures:

http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp01.jpg
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp02.jpg
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp03.jpg
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp04.jpg
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp05.jpg
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp07.jpg
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp06.jpg
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp08.jpg
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/pp09.jpg

[wazz]

I think the last two posts should effectively end this thread once and for all.

[Doug Funnie II]

lol n00baments

[SackUp]

That computer is effing awesome!!!!!!!! A real notebook computer.


HAHAHHAHAHAHAH

[catalyst]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the last two posts should effectively end this thread once and for all.

[/ QUOTE ]

probably, if you hadn't bumped it

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the last two posts should effectively end this thread once and for all.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread was being posted in when you were still just a twinkle in 2+2's eye.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
i think i just peed while reading this. just for future reference...can i deduce this sort of math into my Omaha game or no? (I just dont wanna b the 'Moran' that cant do math correctly)

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this strategy does not apply to Omaha, it only applies to poker games.

[KingMedicine]

i /images/graemlins/heart.gifjman

[kevstreet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think i just peed while reading this. just for future reference...can i deduce this sort of math into my Omaha game or no? (I just dont wanna b the 'Moran' that cant do math correctly)

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this strategy does not apply to Omaha, it only applies to poker games.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

[paumd]

Does this apply to trips as well? Since you have 6 cards to make trips and he only has two. Since you need 2 cards for trips, you effectively have 3 (6/2) outs for trips. Since he only has 2 you are ahead there as well. I want to make sure I have this concept down. No wonder the pros make all that money when they leave out these vital calculations in their books. I WANT MY MONEY BACK DOYLE!

[AceCR9]

this thread is the reason I am now winning lotsa monies.

[BlueEcho]

After reading this post i stopped reading this thread. I think enough was said right here.

[Supwithbates]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I've been misinformed from the start about poker. This guy is right! If you have more outs, you have the best hand. Realizing this, I must be playing way too tight. If my opponent overplays his AA and pushes preflop, and I look at my cards and just see a deuce, I'm going to call with that alone. I'll just keep the other card to the side because I won't need it since my 2 has three outs and my opponent's aces only have two.

I really think the OP is really going to help my game in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]
underrated

[vector2]

[ QUOTE ]
The information contained in this thread is largely untrue. Overcards aren't better because they have more outs, they are better because there are two different ranks and therefore they are more likely to make straights. Straights are better than pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

no

[beavens]

i am laughing at all the people trying to take this thread seriously.

[PaulWilmot]

whats up with the OP now? pwning at big games?
math teacher? poker pro?
i really want to know

[Barfunkel]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont laugh at the bluff call. When people call my bets i think oh [censored], i must be beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definately! Like, if you call preflop with 27o you obviously are representing a stronger hand, therefore: Bluff call!

[silvergoose]

This forum is now FYAD.

Jesus god.

Can someone turn the background pink?

Oh, and jman, you forgot to account for the one overcard and one undercard hands. Like T5, but even the weaker ones like K2 are good because the only straight card they share is the ace, and since you're against a pair, it's probably not aces, so all four are there.

Just food for thought. Double straights are just as powerful as two overcards, but the reverse double implied odds aren't as bad because you've got the king.

[Dagger78]

my new favorite post

[TehVader]

awesome, thanks for bumping this

[arkons]

outs to improve... theres 42 cards in a deck right???? so 6 outs to improve is not much /images/graemlins/smile.gif))) GO PAIRS!

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
outs to improve... theres 42 cards in a deck right???? so 6 outs to improve is not much /images/graemlins/smile.gif))) GO PAIRS!

[/ QUOTE ]

But the burn cards dont count

[AceCR9]

BuMp

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
whats up with the OP now? pwning at big games?
math teacher? poker pro?
i really want to know

[/ QUOTE ]

last i hear he ate some poop and stabbed a dood

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whats up with the OP now? pwning at big games?
math teacher? poker pro?
i really want to know

[/ QUOTE ]

last i hear he ate some poop and stabbed a dood

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, half of this statement is true.

[ZeTurd]

<font color="green">jman220</font> !!!!

[dafulv]

AA is obviously the 14th worst starting hand

[creative]

this thread makes my thread hurt, not because of jmans obvious troll attempt but because of all the retards who took him seriously

[thunk]

I remember reading this thread high when it was first posted and yelling WHAT.

[obiedman]

[ QUOTE ]
this thread makes my thread hurt, not because of jmans obvious troll attempt but because of all the retards who took him seriously

[/ QUOTE ]

do you use ice or heat when your thread hurts?

[flipdeadshot22]

I think this post ushered in the era of the overt,unrelenting, multileveled sarcasm that is now all of BBV. Congratulations OP; for changing the landscape of an entire internet subforum.

[odomination]

Bump /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Elandriel]

aww... thread already over:(

whaha, this is so frggn funny:) very nice sarchasm example;)

[Georgia Avenue]

sarchasm (http://sarchasm.net/)

PS: Ship it? Holla.

[Suigin406]

man, this thread may never die...

[Mrage]

[ QUOTE ]
man, this thread may never die...

[/ QUOTE ]I hope not /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[RebuyFoolAA]

What if its four way and hands are AA, KQ, KQ, KQ, does KQ split the pot 50% of time? 1 K and 1 Q left in deck = 2 outs and 2 A's left in deck = 2. Both have 50% chance of hitting!?

[orensi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thank You. I'm just so sick of the whining on these boards "Waah Waah, I lost with AA to KQ." KQ HAD SIX OUTS TO IMPROVE IDIOT, YOU ONLY HAD TWO!

[/ QUOTE ]

Realize in this example that AA is a made hand and KQ has to improve. This is where the error of you math comes in. But I don't think you were talking about AA vs. xx. I though (at first) you were talking about (for example) QQ vs. AK or 99 vs. KJs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, 3rd level??

[orensi]

[ QUOTE ]
jman220
Please to be Mod?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you GOTTA be mod after this one.

[monkover]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman220
Please to be Mod?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you GOTTA be mod after this one.

[/ QUOTE ]


That´s true one of the best posts evaa

[catalyst]

http://www.energizer.com/images/bunny/BnyBigBunny_img.jpg

[pr1me]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.energizer.com/images/bunny/BnyBigBunny_img.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

lol nice one

[RoyalMag]

[ QUOTE ]
What if its four way and hands are AA, KQ, KQ, KQ, does KQ split the pot 50% of time? 1 K and 1 Q left in deck = 2 outs and 2 A's left in deck = 2. Both have 50% chance of hitting!?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[Georgia Avenue]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What if its four way and hands are AA, KQ, KQ, KQ, does KQ split the pot 50% of time? 1 K and 1 Q left in deck = 2 outs and 2 A's left in deck = 2. Both have 50% chance of hitting!?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, wtf. KQ/images/graemlins/club.gif is way ahead.

[ikestoys]

J10 sooted is better than AA cuz you have 3 10s, 3 Js and you have a straight and flush draw already. everyone knows combo draws are cash moniez

[TJ1]

J 10 Suited is a good hand under certain conditions. However, it is not the ideal hand against pocket Aces. You can catch a straight and lose to a higher straight.
Lower suited connectors are the ideal type of hand against Aces. That is a fact, not my opinion! 87 suited 76, 65, etc. will beat aces more often than any other hands.

[Mat]

[ QUOTE ]
J 10 Suited is a good hand under certain conditions. However, it is not the ideal hand against pocket Aces. You can catch a straight and lose to a higher straight.
Lower suited connectors are the ideal type of hand against Aces. That is a fact, not my opinion! 87 suited 76, 65, etc. will beat aces more often than any other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Ax sooted was doing better against aces cause you can hit the nut flush while 87s can only make the 7th nut flush. Are you sure it's not only your opinion ?

[Rottersod]

++bump++

jman..where are you?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
++bump++

jman..where are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Churchill,

In the kitchen, eating a bagel.

Regards,
--jman220

[jman220]

Pocket Aces, Poo!
Any two will do is true.
Please Heed My Haiku.

[egocidal]

hoy [censored] this is old, i forgot bout it.

[Nina]

This is, nevertheless, one of the funniest posts eva /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr Rick]

Wow glad this got bumped. I laughed as hard as I can remember from reading posts. Highlights for me were the KQ vs. AA overcards odds discussion, the guy who said he wasted two minutes of his life reading this (an Evelyn Woods graduate perhaps?) and the broken sarcasm detector.

I actually think this thread will help my game. Whenever people get mad at me when I win a hand for the way I play it, I usually say "I am not very good." Now I can back it up with my newly adopted theory on overcards being 3 times better than pocket pairs not even counting their straight potential. But what was most important was how many people responded about the correct % that overpairs should have. I am looking forward to at least 2 or 3 players at the table earnestly trying to correct me and maybe 1 or 2 surrepticiously trying to get them to be quiet. Life inside the aquarium should be fun.

[thing85]

Wow, hadn't read this thread before. Pure gold.

[ikestoys]

can we end this joke yet?

[fees]

[ QUOTE ]
can we never end this joke yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

[gol4pro]

Somehow after missing this thread for almost 2 years and spending 20 minutes reading it.... i still dont know whether to laugh or cry!

OP is hands down either the stupidest or most brilliant person ever. That is, if he is kidding and is really just 3rd leveling all of us, then this is the biggest ownage ever. If he is serious, then all I can say is YSSCKY.

OP, in case you are serious can you please recommend a good line for a situation I commonly face?

Basically, lets say I hold 7c7s and my opponent holds 45d. Usually the flop is something like

2d2s7d

My question is should I fold here if he pushes all in since he has 9 outs to improve and I only have 3? It would appear that I am a 3:1 dog, so folding here is clearly the correct play right?

[Georgia Avenue]

[ QUOTE ]
Somehow after missing this thread for almost 2 years and spending 20 minutes reading it.... i still dont know whether to laugh or cry!

OP is hands down either the stupidest or most brilliant person ever. That is, if he is kidding and is really just 3rd leveling all of us, then this is the biggest ownage ever. If he is serious, then all I can say is YSSCKY.

OP, in case you are serious can you please recommend a good line for a situation I commonly face?

Basically, lets say I hold 7c7s and my opponent holds 45d. Usually the flop is something like

2d2s7d

My question is should I fold here if he pushes all in since he has 9 outs to improve and I only have 3? It would appear that I am a 3:1 dog, so folding here is clearly the correct play right?

[/ QUOTE ]

LDO

[Cumulonimbus]

this thread = two years of leveling and still going strong.

[ASPoker8]

[ QUOTE ]
Somehow after missing this thread for almost 2 years and spending 20 minutes reading it.... i still dont know whether to laugh or cry!

OP is hands down either the stupidest or most brilliant person ever. That is, if he is kidding and is really just 3rd leveling all of us, then this is the biggest ownage ever. If he is serious, then all I can say is YSSCKY.

OP, in case you are serious can you please recommend a good line for a situation I commonly face?

Basically, lets say I hold 7c7s and my opponent holds 45d. Usually the flop is something like

2d2s7d

My question is should I fold here if he pushes all in since he has 9 outs to improve and I only have 3? It would appear that I am a 3:1 dog, so folding here is clearly the correct play right?

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you get up in the morning?

[gol4pro]

LDO = ?

[piebear]

was op joking?

[DannyOcean_]

hint: OP's BB is more than your bankroll

[fees]

beat: OP allegedly has OCD

[iron81]

[ QUOTE ]
hint: OP's BB is more than your bankroll

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong.

[Nonfiction]

[ QUOTE ]
Somehow after missing this thread for almost 2 years and spending 20 minutes reading it.... i still dont know whether to laugh or cry!

OP is hands down either the stupidest or most brilliant person ever. That is, if he is kidding and is really just 3rd leveling all of us, then this is the biggest ownage ever. If he is serious, then all I can say is YSSCKY.

OP, in case you are serious can you please recommend a good line for a situation I commonly face?

Basically, lets say I hold 7c7s and my opponent holds 45d. Usually the flop is something like

2d2s7d

My question is should I fold here if he pushes all in since he has 9 outs to improve and I only have 3? It would appear that I am a 3:1 dog, so folding here is clearly the correct play right?

[/ QUOTE ]
how is this still happening?

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
hint: OP's BB is more than your bankroll

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong jman

[btmagnetw]

[ QUOTE ]
Somehow after missing this thread for almost 2 years and spending 20 minutes reading it.... i still dont know whether to laugh or cry!

OP is hands down either the stupidest or most brilliant person ever. That is, if he is kidding and is really just 3rd leveling all of us, then this is the biggest ownage ever. If he is serious, then all I can say is YSSCKY.

OP, in case you are serious can you please recommend a good line for a situation I commonly face?

Basically, lets say I hold 7c7s and my opponent holds 45d. Usually the flop is something like

2d2s7d

My question is should I fold here if he pushes all in since he has 9 outs to improve and I only have 3? It would appear that I am a 3:1 dog, so folding here is clearly the correct play right?

[/ QUOTE ]two

thousand

[censored]

posts?

[iron81]

[ QUOTE ]
two

thousand

[censored]

posts?

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone else interested in gol4pro's lifetime graph?

[joel2006]

Still going . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energizer_Bunny

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
can we end this joke yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

What Joke?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Somehow after missing this thread for almost 2 years and spending 20 minutes reading it.... i still dont know whether to laugh or cry!

OP is hands down either the stupidest or most brilliant person ever. That is, if he is kidding and is really just 3rd leveling all of us, then this is the biggest ownage ever. If he is serious, then all I can say is YSSCKY.

OP, in case you are serious can you please recommend a good line for a situation I commonly face?

Basically, lets say I hold 7c7s and my opponent holds 45d. Usually the flop is something like

2d2s7d

My question is should I fold here if he pushes all in since he has 9 outs to improve and I only have 3? It would appear that I am a 3:1 dog, so folding here is clearly the correct play right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you seriously asking whether or not you should fold a full house on the flop? You're a moran. Even 2/7 offsuit can get lucky on the flop, that doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't overplay your 77 preflop because you're in bad shape against 4/5 suited. Maybe you like getting your money in preflop with the worst of it, not me though, thats why I have made HUNDREDS of dollars playing poker.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hint: OP's BB is more than your bankroll

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know what they say about guys with big blinds.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Still going . . . http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Ebunny.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
was op joking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I never joke about poker.

[OvrTheTop111]

This is quite possibly the best thread ever...

[mirrorman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3:1 is the new coinflip

[/ QUOTE ]

rigged

[/ QUOTE ]

People who think online poker is rigged only do because they're too dense to realize that when their pocket pairs get "cracked," thats not a bad beat, they were in fact 3:1 dogs.

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL this post made my day

[juggler97531]

wow. just saw this thread. just wow
OP is my hero. I would have never expected anyone to get levelled like this. I DEFNITELY think too high of people with 2k posts on this forum.

And on the other note - this thread should be DEFINATELY in Poker Theory as this is DEFNITELLY strategy thread, right?
I can see that OP placed it here just to get bigger crowd.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
I can see that OP placed it here just to get bigger crowd.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I posted this thread this forum had about ten regular members.

[benza13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can see that OP placed it here just to get bigger crowd.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I posted this thread this forum had about ten regular members.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was still bigger than poker theory.

[jman220]

En Francais! (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=10690665&amp;an=0&amp;page=0#Pos t10690665)

[SkyyCaptain]

I gotta admit it took me a little too long to catch the sarcasm.

Still I was laughing for a half hour going through these old posts, thank you for the bump.

[johnnyknish]

except when he has aces to your KQ you need to hit at least 2 of those outs ...

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
except when he has aces to your KQ you need to hit at least 2 of those outs ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats your point? KQ still has more outs than AA.

[thac]

Wait, I always thought it was OMGClayAiken that made this post. ALL THESE JMANS MAKE ME SO GOD DAMN MAD!

[Zims]

OMG
When I first read the original post I labeled the OP an idiot and didn`t pay attention to who the poster was.
But now...
That is some amazing leveling right here.

Anyway thanks for helping me improve my game Jman

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway thanks for helping me improve my game Jman


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I'm here for.

[johnnyknish]

that you need more then one out to improve...and the aces need none

[MusashiStyle]

i dunno i always seem to do well with pocket pairs though.

[PocketElevens]

[ QUOTE ]
that you need more then one out to improve...and the aces need none

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats your screenname? Actually PM it so I dont get stuck in the waiting list.

[Steamboy]

[ QUOTE ]
What if its four way and hands are AA, KQ, KQ, KQ, does KQ split the pot 50% of time? 1 K and 1 Q left in deck = 2 outs and 2 A's left in deck = 2. Both have 50% chance of hitting!?

[/ QUOTE ]
Will you coach me? I want to learn the percentages

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
that you need more then one out to improve...and the aces need none

[/ QUOTE ]

But thats completely irrelevant. You determine how good your hand is by counting how many outs you have, and then converting those outs to a percentage of the time where you win, and then seeing if you're getting "pot odds." So, for example, If I have 2 spades in my hand and there are two on the board on the turn, then I have nine outs because there is a 9/46 chance that I will make my flush, so I need to be getting more than 46:9 on any money I put into the pot. The same concept applies to your pocket pairs. You only have two outs, so you'd better be getting 46:2 on your money or you're playing like a donk. With KQ, you've got 6 outs, so if your'e getting 46:6 on your money, then you're ok. Do you understand now noob?

[johnnyknish]

oh now i see the light lol

[SuperSnort]

Jman should have the title "Socrates of Poker". your wisdom is never ending

[btmagnetw]

one time i was playing at the 10-20 in the bellagio when i raised AhQh on the button. the flop came KhJhTh!! i bet, my villian pushed. i pukeddd. i flipped my hand face up and folded. everyone stared in disbelief but the donkeys didn't know i was drawing dead to improve. that's the day i quit poker.

[SpartMan1]

[ QUOTE ]
one time i was playing at the 10-20 in the bellagio when i raised AhQh on the button. the flop came KhJhTh!! i bet, my villian pushed. i pukeddd. i flipped my hand face up and folded. everyone stared in disbelief but the donkeys didn't know i was drawing dead to improve. that's the day i quit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh.