All in at Prima... bad beats abundant

[RiverTheNuts]

Ok, I dont think poker online is rigged, but it has crossed my mind. Especially on Prima when a player is all in. This isnt some spiteful bad beat story, I play 1/2 limit, all in pots cost me like 6 bucks....

But has anyone else noticed this?? I checked my PT, and the last 78 times Ive put someone all in preflop in limit poker on prima, Ive been about a 65% favorite on average, I havent pokerstoved 78 hands, because frankly, Im not that bored, but I have only won 17/78 of those hands, which seems insanely low. Even for my sample size, the confidence interval should be pretty clear that I should be winning much more of these statistically.

If anyone else wants to play devils advocate, go through PT, find prima limit hands where you put your opponent all in preflop, pokerstove it, and figure out if you are winning a proportionate amount of hands.


Again, no flames, no smartass remarks, Im just curious if people want to play conspiracy theory with me. I am not whining about bad beats, or making an OMFG bots are everywhere post... it seems to me that letting an all in player win a small pot would be the BEST way to continue to give rake to the sites and be the least conspicuous to players because it isnt a large amount of money.

[TylerD]

970 posts.

And people say 2+2 is going downhill.

[Sabrazack]

Don't you always river the nuts?

[usmfan]

[ QUOTE ]
Again, no flames, no smartass remarks, Im just curious if people want to play conspiracy theory with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you guys listen?

[Mike Haven]

[ QUOTE ]
go through PT, find prima limit hands where you put your opponent all in preflop, pokerstove it, and figure out if you are winning a proportionate amount of hands.



[/ QUOTE ]

After you.

[RiverTheNuts]

fine, Ill go put these into pokerstove, figure out my EV and my actual value, and do a confidence interval, but more hands from others would help, PM me hand histories if you want.

[roundest]

[ QUOTE ]
fine, Ill go put these into pokerstove, figure out my EV and my actual value, and do a confidence interval, but more hands from others would help, PM me hand histories if you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good luck.

[Mike Haven]

[ QUOTE ]
fine, Ill go put these into pokerstove, figure out my EV and my actual value, and do a confidence interval, but more hands from others would help, PM me hand histories if you want.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

Please show all workings for each hand so that the doubters among us, (yes, there still are some), can't pick holes in your figures.

[FlFishOn]

Your methodology is right on track. It's slow work and you're unlikely to find much but....well, I trust almost no one in the online gambling industry and I'm sure the cheat you intimate is in use somewhere. I've tested Stars in small doses and they came out right on expectation. I tested Party and my results were skewed enough for me to discontinue play there. I'd love to test Pacific but they do not flip up both hands when all in.

For easier data collection play SNGs.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
I tested Party and my results were skewed enough for me to discontinue play there.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say things like this over and over yet will never post your data. Odd?

[FlFishOn]

You want actionable experimental conclusions? Get it yourself.

[FlFishOn]

"Please show all workings for each hand so that the doubters among us, (yes, there still are some), can't pick holes in your figures."

180 degrees off.

Do this for yourself. Don't even bother to share your results here. They will only be mocked.

The blind, unthinking defenders of online poker will not be swayed by anything you can post here so why bother?

PM me please with your results.

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
You want actionable experimental conclusions? Get it yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm..
[ QUOTE ]
Do this for yourself. Don't even bother to share your results here. They will only be mocked.


PM me please with your results.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO

[OrianasDaad]

78 hands isn't a large enough sample. Rather than guess - do the EV calculations for each hand and figure what you theoretically would have won.

Putting someone all-in gives them infinite odds to suck out, and they don't have to put any more money in while behind. I think the term is "reverse implied odds".

[ QUOTE ]
bad beats abundant

[/ QUOTE ]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this mean the games are good?

Plus, you don't have to pokerstove the hands. PT comes equipped with win% info in the replayer. Just make sure you don't check it until after the flop. Pre-flop will lag you out.

[Mike Haven]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't even bother to share your results here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The blind, unthinking defenders of online poker will not be swayed by anything you can post here so why bother?


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe I can speak for 99% of the forum and say we agree with you, FlFishOn.

It would be great if these types of "poker is rigged" accusations without any associated evidence weren't posted every few days. Let's hope the kooks take your sage advice.

Thanks.

[AlwaysWrong]

I've noticed that on Tuesday nights when I'm raised on the turn by players with a nickname starting with a vowel I don't win nearly my fair share. Prima is rigged!

If you look hard enough you'll always be able to find some subset of hands where you got very unlucky over an extended period.

[Feltin Licter]

I recently joined Prima. I've played just about everywhere else. Bad beats are part of the game as we all know, but I've never experienced anything like Prima.

I'll save you the details, but 3 times all-in for $800-$1200 pots, all 3 times 80% or better, all three times I lose. 2 were 2 outers, the other time the guy put me all-in preflop with JJ v my AA.

If you're thinking about playing here I wouldn't. If anywhere is "rigged", it's Prima. Many much better options.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I dont think poker online is rigged, but I'm going to spend the rest of this post talking about how I really do think it is. And I'm hoping that first sentence willl cover me from being flamed to bad. PS, I Should Seriously Consider Killing Myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't even bother to share your results here.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
PM me please with your results.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, you're a moron.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
I recently joined Prima. I've played just about everywhere else. Bad beats are part of the game as we all know, but I've never experienced anything like Prima.

I'll save you the details, but 3 times <font color="red"> sample size too small</font> all-in for $800-$1200 <font color="red"> irrelevant </font> pots, all 3 times 80% or better <font color="red"> I doubt it, post hand histories</font> , all three times I lose. 2 were 2 outers, the other time the guy put me all-in preflop with JJ v my AA.

If you're thinking about playing here I wouldn't. If anywhere is "rigged", it's Prima. Many much better options.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Feltin Licter]

Too much work to try and find all these hands. Here's one I found from past 10 hands.

** Dealing card to XXXXXX: King of Spades, King of Diamonds

XXXXXX called - $10.00

agaresX called - $10.00

bigdraw called - $10.00

ulle11 folded

rajamuffin called - $10.00

TheEnd called - $10.00

GastonPride called - $10.00

iceman81 folded

laponia checked



** Dealing the flop: 8 of Spades, 10 of Hearts, 9 of Clubs

laponia checked

XXXXXX bet - $17.99

agaresX raised - $53.97

bigdraw folded

rajamuffin folded

TheEnd folded

GastonPride folded

laponia folded

XXXXXX called - $53.97



** Dealing the turn: 8 of Hearts

XXXXXX checked

agaresX bet - $200.00

XXXXXX went all-in - $391.48

agaresX went all-in - $161.03

agaresX shows: Ace of Clubs, 10 of Spades



** Dealing the river: 10 of Diamonds

agaresX wins $902.00 from the main pot



End of game XXXXXX

[tubbyspencer]

just responding to bump the "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" post off the front page