Five Kinds of Afterlife

[David Sklansky]

1. The standard religious variety.

2. Reincarnation, perhaps on a different planet.

3. A realization, upon death, that your human brain was just a receiever for the real you that exists elsewhere all the time, perhaps in another dimension (See the last chapter of Poker Gaming and Life).

4. A personal perception of infinite existence even as those around you think you die. Some sort of Einsteinean slowing down of time, like in traveling at the speed of light or entering a black hole. The phenomenon of seeing "your life pass in front of your eyes" upon imminent death, might give credence to this theory (It actually happened in exquisite detail to poker player Lee Salem.)And it would also give you your own personal heaven or hell,depending on how you lived your life.

5. No afterlife period.


Simple multiple choice quiz.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
2. Reincarnation, perhaps on a different planet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that which makes my consciousness me is finite, and the universe is infinite (perhaps as in the bang-crunch forever idea, but there are other ways it could be infinite), I should be re-created an infinite number of times.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
If that which makes my consciousness me is finite, and the universe is infinite (perhaps as in the bang-crunch forever idea, but there are other ways it could be infinite), I should be re-created an infinite number of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

That plan gets hosed if there are particles which behave in a truely random manner.

Stu

[Shandrax]

My answer would be something between 2 and 5.

Apart from the obvious metaphysical claim, that you will live on in the memories of other people and only die once you are forgotten, there is something else, something more real. If you die and you get buried, worms will eat your corpse. Your genetic material will be transformed and parts of you end will up as parts of the worm. Birds will eat that worm and so on. Humans stand on the end of the food-chain and eventually you will be "re-born", at least partially. That is only "true" for those who believe that their soul and their body is a unit though. If you define yourself by your soul only, then you have to resort to the metaphysical theory above.

All other theories are just wishful thinking, because ultimate death would be simply way too embarrassing.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If that which makes my consciousness me is finite, and the universe is infinite (perhaps as in the bang-crunch forever idea, but there are other ways it could be infinite), I should be re-created an infinite number of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

That plan gets hosed if there are particles which behave in a truely random manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, randomness is good when you have an infinite number of trials. It assures that everything possible will eventually happen infinitely many times.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
No, randomness is good when you have an infinite number of trials. It assures that everything possible will eventually happen infinitely many times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can it not also make the number of possibilities infinite?

Stu

[BluffTHIS!]

I hope that in 10, 20, 30 years or more when you actually find out for yourself, that you will be allowed to come back there and bump this thread from the dusty archives and let the rest of these folks know.

For myself of course, I know it is #1, while many of you hope it's not #1, and some of you had better PRAY it's not #1 (or change your life).

[MidGe]

Ah! for me, it is 5.

Could have been 2, not necessarily, but possibly, on another planet or plan or whatever.

Unfortunately, I have no reminiscences of anything prior to my conception (or birth for that matter /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) and everything I observe that has a beginning has an end... I just assume that's the nature of things. No need of anything else as a crutch for my living meaningfully. If I am wrong, well, I hope whatever it is, is better than the way life is. If I am right, at least, I try to live my life with good intentions (however misguideed they may be), and have learned not to worry too much about results.

Really, if I help an old lady/man crossing a street, to ensure that they don't get run over, and that puts them in the path of a footpath skateboard rider that bumps them accidentally and kills them because of their fragility.. that's life /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
3. A realization, upon death, that your human brain was just a receiever for the real you that exists elsewhere all the time, perhaps in another dimension (See the last chapter of Poker Gaming and Life).

[/ QUOTE ]
If this were true, taking LSD would not alter our consciousness.

[Prodigy54321]

1) .01%

2) between .1% and 99.9% depending on your definition of "you"

3) .1%

4) .1% as long as your, "And it would also give you your own personal heaven or hell,depending on how you lived your life." is excluded

5) between .1% and 95.99%

OTHER) 2%

--and that's right on the money sohn

[godBoy]

I find it odd that atheists would give reincarnation such a large probability of being right.
For me I'm about 99.268 percent sure it's number 1. Too many times has it been right in my past experience.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]

For me I'm about 99.268 percent sure it's number 1. Too many times has it been right in my past experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess we are talking a very small sample. LOL.

[Peter666]

The only choice for all of you:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/satanschoice/Hell20portuguese.jpg

[Bataglin]

Lol - picture from the annual SM-convention? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regarding the afterlife-options: My choice is #3, followed by the interesting dark horse #4.

[TomBrooks]

I'll go with 4, minus the heaven or hell. The afterlife heaven and hell thing is just a myth to advise/cajole/scare people into being good. The Bible also says "Heaven is within you." I think that's closer to the truth. I'm not sure if you retain an individual consiousness after you die though.

[Shandrax]

[ QUOTE ]
3. A realization, upon death, that your human brain was just a receiever for the real you that exists elsewhere all the time, perhaps in another dimension (See the last chapter of Poker Gaming and Life).

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, but I had the same idea a couple of years ago (even before Matrix) and I think it is something that we can expect in the near future. One day the human brain will be decyphered and the soul will be seen as nothing but a very complex algorithm based on an individual neuronal net. Scientists we will be able create an interface between the human brain and a computer and they will be able to save some sort of data and one day there will be a virtual world where the brain-code of dead people will be allowed to "live" forever or at least until someone or something pulls the plug. There will be a world of the living and parallel virtual world of the dead. Btw, I'd call it "HADES" which stands for something like "human-after-death-emulated-society" as a reminder of greek mythology).

The only downside is that "living" forever in a virtual world could turn out to be extremely boring....after a couple of million years and maybe some of those people will eventually wish that they could end their existance once and forever. The debate of the future will be if this should be allowed or not.

[carlo]

1,2,3,and 4 all have elements of truth in them. #5 is difficult and false.

How about pre-life, doesn't anyone talk of this state?

carlo

[benkahuna]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3. A realization, upon death, that your human brain was just a receiever for the real you that exists elsewhere all the time, perhaps in another dimension (See the last chapter of Poker Gaming and Life).

[/ QUOTE ]
If this were true, taking LSD would not alter our consciousness.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think the experiences are likely similar in a number of ways so LSD could alter consciousness in a way similar to events at death.

LSD should not be confused with killing or almost killing a person. The only potentially deleterious physical effect LSD has is in vitro chromosomal breakage which is not known to cause any physical problems and this effect also occurs in the presence of acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin), and to the same extent. I'd be quite surprised if it were less significant with LSD b/c the effective dose is 3 orders of magnitude (in the 1000X range) lower than that of aspirin.

If you read Rick Strassman's clinical research articles, you'll find close relationships between ketamine and near death experiences. Ketamine has a fair number of experiential similiarities with more classic tryptamine and phenethylamine psychedelics. Additionally, Strassman has written a bit about DMT and its relationship with a 49 day life/death cycle, though that writing had a more spiritual slant to it than his ketamine studies.


I have no idea what happens when people die. The person's body falls apart and we lose the more obvious connection to a person's consciousness. Clearly there are some biological happenings during near death experiences that occur in some people. Since that's all we have to go on, I feel presumptuous in guessing. I'm more of a wait and see what happens kind of guy.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, randomness is good when you have an infinite number of trials. It assures that everything possible will eventually happen infinitely many times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can it not also make the number of possibilities infinite?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I was not very specific about "that which makes my consciousness me". I know it's not my DNA, for if I had a twin, or I was cloned, I would not experience the consciousness of that twin or clone.

Is it my brain? I can't make an exact copy of my brain, yet the atoms making up my brain are constantly being exchanged. Also a surgeon could cut out some parts of my brain and I would still feel like the same self. But perhaps this "self" is just an illusion of the memory and awareness functions of my brain, and the idea of reincarnation makes no sense.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3. A realization, upon death, that your human brain was just a receiever for the real you that exists elsewhere all the time, perhaps in another dimension (See the last chapter of Poker Gaming and Life).

[/ QUOTE ]
If this were true, taking LSD would not alter our consciousness.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think the experiences are likely similar in a number of ways so LSD could alter consciousness in a way similar to events at death.

LSD should not be confused with killing or almost killing a person. The only potentially deleterious physical effect LSD has is in vitro chromosomal breakage which is not known to cause any physical problems and this effect also occurs in the presence of acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin), and to the same extent. I'd be quite surprised if it were less significant with LSD b/c the effective dose is 3 orders of magnitude (in the 1000X range) lower than that of aspirin.

If you read Rick Strassman's clinical research articles, you'll find close relationships between ketamine and near death experiences. Ketamine has a fair number of experiential similiarities with more classic tryptamine and phenethylamine psychedelics. Additionally, Strassman has written a bit about DMT and its relationship with a 49 day life/death cycle, though that writing had a more spiritual slant to it than his ketamine studies.


I have no idea what happens when people die. The person's body falls apart and we lose the more obvious connection to a person's consciousness. Clearly there are some biological happenings during near death experiences that occur in some people. Since that's all we have to go on, I feel presumptuous in guessing. I'm more of a wait and see what happens kind of guy.

[/ QUOTE ]
You've totally lost me, but here's the point I was making.

If the human brain were just a receiver, and the real center of your conscious experience exists somewhere else (as in Poker, Gaming, and Life), then you could not affect your conscious experience by doing things to your brain -- like exposing it to LSD or a jackhammer or whatever.

[David Sklansky]

"If the human brain were just a receiver, and the real center of your conscious experience exists somewhere else (as in Poker, Gaming, and Life), then you could not affect your conscious experience by doing things to your brain -- like exposing it to LSD or a jackhammer or whatever"

I should have said that your brain is the sender, to analogize with my story.

[Lestat]

<font color="blue">If the human brain were just a receiver, and the real center of your conscious experience exists somewhere else (as in Poker, Gaming, and Life), then you could not affect your conscious experience by doing things to your brain -- like exposing it to LSD or a jackhammer or whatever.
</font>

I don't understand why this is true. Try poking holes in your woofers or tweaters or damaging the transistor and/or antenna on an old TV or radio. This will definitely affect the quality of what the transceiver receives. Much in the same way LSD or a jackhanner would affect the brain. ??

[yukoncpa]

Regarding #4 - If you were to die suddenly without seeing it coming, say someone shot you in the back of the head with a shotgun. Could there be a slowing up of time at the moment of death?

Regarding reincarnation - What is the mechanism that allows your soul to vacate at the moment of death then hover over a pregnant woman, then enter a fetus at some point? Also, there are more people being born than dying. Do the excess people have no souls?

[David Steele]

5

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue">If the human brain were just a receiver, and the real center of your conscious experience exists somewhere else (as in Poker, Gaming, and Life), then you could not affect your conscious experience by doing things to your brain -- like exposing it to LSD or a jackhammer or whatever.
</font>

I don't understand why this is true. Try poking holes in your woofers or tweaters or damaging the transistor and/or antenna on an old TV or radio. This will definitely affect the quality of what the transceiver receives. Much in the same way LSD or a jackhanner would affect the brain. ??

[/ QUOTE ]


...or a better, simpler analogy, would be tuning your "radio" to a different frequency.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]


For myself of course, I know it is #1

[/ QUOTE ]


No you don't.

[MagicMan08]

i have been thinking about this a great deal the last couple days...i really don't know what the answer is...i have hopes that it is not number 5, and i am 21 yrs old

[Peter666]

Look at all the monks in the pot. Oops, this must be Heaven! Pictures or words cannot describe the (non kinky) pains of Hell awaiting all of you!

[purnell]

[ QUOTE ]
Look at all the monks in the pot. Oops, this must be Heaven! Pictures or words cannot describe the (non kinky) pains of Hell awaiting all of you!

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you the judge, then?

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
(non kinky)

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh come on Peter, hell was looking fun until you said that.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue">If the human brain were just a receiver, and the real center of your conscious experience exists somewhere else (as in Poker, Gaming, and Life), then you could not affect your conscious experience by doing things to your brain -- like exposing it to LSD or a jackhammer or whatever.
</font>

I don't understand why this is true. Try poking holes in your woofers or tweaters or damaging the transistor and/or antenna on an old TV or radio. This will definitely affect the quality of what the transceiver receives. Much in the same way LSD or a jackhanner would affect the brain. ??

[/ QUOTE ]
No. When you drink a bunch of alcohol, you can't do math very well. It's not that your thinking process is still working fine but it just can't receive/trasmit the signals properly -- your thinking process itself is messed up.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]

How about pre-life, doesn't anyone talk of this state?

carlo

[/ QUOTE ]

It was long and slow...

[West]

I'll go with not 1 or 5

[sdunsmb]

[ QUOTE ]
i have been thinking about this a great deal the last couple days...i really don't know what the answer is...i have hopes that it is not number 5, and i am 21 yrs old

[/ QUOTE ]

I think about it all the time, and I also strongly hope it is not number 5. I am 18.

However, there is a lot of science that kind of does support number 5, whereas the other theories are kind of less reilable.

I would like to think that any of 1,3 or 4 are possible.

Maybe it depends on type of person you are.

[behemoth2006]

I personally hope for a kind of variation of the "receiver" theory. I would hope that my "I" will live on, disembodied, able to commune with the souls of the other dead.

Just hanging around eternally, talking with the other dead.

Would be great!

[carlo]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:

How about pre-life, doesn't anyone talk of this state?

carlo



It was long and slow..

[/ QUOTE ]

nh /images/graemlins/grin.gif

carlo

[NuklearWinter]

[ QUOTE ]
For myself of course, I know it is #1, while many of you hope it's not #1, and some of you had better PRAY it's not #1 (or change your life).

[/ QUOTE ]

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." -Albert Einstein

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
1. The standard religious variety.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's kind of like saying, "The standard response to a pre-flop raise."

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. The standard religious variety.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's kind of like saying, "The standard response to a pre-flop raise."

[/ QUOTE ]
OH, I don't think so. The SRV of the afterlife is some kind of paradise for the "good" and torment for the "bad". The only significant difference of opinion is over how bad the torment will/won't be.

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]

I think about it all the time, and I also strongly hope it is not number 5. I am 18

However, there is a lot of science that kind of does support number 5, whereas the other theories are kind of less reilable.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. Science only suggests that there's no reason to expect any specific afterlife (and the more specific the less likely).

Personally, I fully expect 5 and wouldn't mind the others with the exception of 1 if it entails the traditional "Lake of Fire" for those who commit the "sin" of not thinking "correctly".

But I'm not worried about it in the least. If a just god exists, I'm as safe as I can be (I have far less to explain than he/she/they/it does). If an un-just god exists it's all a crap-shoot anyways.

[livinitup0]

The most-likely correct answer that any human can give is also the most fear-inspiring one at least to me. The last one. I hope Im wrong...but in this point in my life I cant say I am.

OK I can see this is going to turn more and more heated on my end as this reply goes along. Apoligies to anyone I offend in advance.

....Torment for the "bad". God you guys really believe this crap? Im not religious, but I think that a good person simply needs to be thoughtful of his/hers and others basic human rights...and not dissolusion ourselves that we are no more than evolved animals....that's all. Darwinism.
No book with colorful characters involved. Here's an interesting question.... god is supposed to be all forgiving, and yet I endure an eternity of torment because I didnt believe in his story? Or that I dont go to an organized buisness every Sunday to fork over time and money? Or that Im replying so aggressively to this post?

What is faith? by definition its the belief in something with no physical evidence to back that belief. Well god made us in his image right?? Then what? is it just some sick freakin game to him that the answers arent out there? "Bad"??? Bad would be taking an obvious immoral or unethical path in life IF you were shown the right path of "good". Eternal damnation for those who never contributed to the 700 club. Never has a cult been more glorified than that of the holy bible. (And dont try to pick apart that statement, a cult is defined by any religious organization that actively recruits new members...and the church sure as heck does a lot of that)

Wow first time in this forum since I registered...and Ive never been so emotionally charged about anything Ive seen at 2+2. I wont be back to this section. (which is probably good for you all, since I doubt anyone wants to hear my rants) Math, Science, Philosophy??? Just rename it Religion...that's pretty much all I see here....which is fruitless, BTW, a never-ending debate.

Lets not make the same pointless mistakes that 3rd world countries have been fighting wars over for generations and just accept that religion is a personal decision and organizing it... IS ...IMO "bad."

Peace
Rick