Do the big name Scientologists simply have endorsement deals?

[AJFenix]

Do you think people like Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes, Nicole Kidman, John Travolta, Isaac Hayes, and others are truly brainwashed by such complete garbage, or do you think that the very rich church of Scientology simply provides them with fat $$$ amounts and other benefits to claim they belong to that church so that the church can attract more fresh meat and make even more $$$? I mean this would obviously be smart business, perhaps even necessary. I cannot imagine that these people are actually fooled by this crap, although Tom Cruise seriously does not seem like a normal human being anymore.

[Lestat]

I am completely ignorant on the subject. Can someone briefly explain the gist of Scientology for me? I'd appreciate it.

[AJFenix]

Wiki article, be sure to check out the Xenu part! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology)

In depth super secrets of scientology (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/index.html)

Keep in mind that only a very very small % of scientologists are at a level high enough (or have enough money) to be exposed to the completely ridiculous crap. They by no means bring you in with the knowledge of there being such complete and utter crap, and they thoroughly inspect whether you are brainwashed enough to handle it before doing so.

[AvivaSimplex]

I can't imagine Tom Cruise needs money that badly that he'd endorse a religion he doesn't believe in. I think they're just brainwashed.

[hmkpoker]

I think they may be just whackjobs.

[mmbt0ne]

I'm willing to bet they get money from Scientology.

I'm also willing to bet the church holds those crazy nights where they killed a whore, and that time they experimented with 4 other guys after a coke binge, and the fact they touched their niece when she was 7 locked up after the confessionals, so long as the stars stay nice.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
I am completely ignorant on the subject. Can someone briefly explain the gist of Scientology for me? I'd appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stat,

Rolling Stone mag just did a story on Scientology -I think the issue before the current one. Maybe you can find a copy. (If you can't find it, I still have it. If you want you can PM me and I will mail it to you.)

RJT

[Lestat]

Thanks RJT, I'll look for it. In the meantime, I did find some info on the net. Thanks again.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think people like Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes, Nicole Kidman, John Travolta, Isaac Hayes, and others are truly brainwashed by such complete garbage, or do you think that the very rich church of Scientology simply provides them with fat $$$ amounts and other benefits to claim they belong to that church so that the church can attract more fresh meat and make even more $$$? I mean this would obviously be smart business, perhaps even necessary. I cannot imagine that these people are actually fooled by this crap, although Tom Cruise seriously does not seem like a normal human being anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be interesting to see a comparative religion analysis of scientology and a more conventional religion. While scientology is quickly dismissed as "brainwashing" and "complete garbage", I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[AJFenix]

[ QUOTE ]


It would be interesting to see a comparative religion analysis of scientology and a more conventional religion. While scientology is quickly dismissed as "brainwashing" and "complete garbage", I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think many people dismiss most other religions in the same way, its just that the costs associated with attaining "knowledge" associated with this religion are completely ridiculous, not to mention the fact that it was contrived by a person that claimed "the fastest way to get rich is to create a religion", and who was a drug-using science fiction writer. Frozen aliens being brought to this planet in B8-looking jets and vaporized with bombs, and their souls cought in a magnetic field and then forced to watch 3-D movies to brainwash them into believing Jesus, Buddha, Satan, God, etc, which then attached themselves to humans, all in some grand scheme by an alien lord named Xenu. Half-decent science fiction story at best Hubbard, but definatly a great price tag. To attain this grand secret of the scheme of things costs you hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean, come on.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

just as a side note, nicole kidman is not a scientologist. she says that she attended a couple of services with tom but never really got involved in it.

the word is still out to see if katie will convert.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

AJFenix,

all religions have stories, but the stories are accompanied by a purpose, as to explain a way of life or moral beliefs or a guide to a better spirituality, etc etc. from what i understand all scientology has is a story. but what are their "beliefs"? Maybe that is what attracts people at first?

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

DC-8 planes fitted with rocket engines!

[AJFenix]

[ QUOTE ]
AJFenix,

all religions have stories, but the stories are accompanied by a purpose, as to explain a way of life or moral beliefs or a guide to a better spirituality, etc etc. from what i understand all scientology has is a story. but what are their "beliefs"? Maybe that is what attracts people at first?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, when I read their introductory booklet, its mainly basic stuff like hygiene, psychological health, treating other people fairly, etc. Basic practical stuff. Thats what they hit you with at first, then they slowly draw you in, and you pay more and more money to advance in levels. Once you are brainwashed enough to where you will actually believe the more extreme crap they feed you, they will gladly give it to you for a hefty price.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be interesting to see a comparative religion analysis of scientology and a more conventional religion. While scientology is quickly dismissed as "brainwashing" and "complete garbage", I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

the fact that scientology reads exactly like science fiction makes it seem even more fantastic and exotic than the notion of god or jesus or crucifications and resurrections and heaven and hell. even if those things don't seem realistic, at least people are familiar with the concepts of most religions since they deal with human problems and concerns. scientology on the other hand doesn't really seem to solve any human philosophical or moral needs, it's just a story.

note, that what i said doesn't neccessarily make other religions like christianity more believable, it is probably the reason why most impartial people would dismiss scientology before they would christianity.

[AJFenix]

[ QUOTE ]


the fact that scientology reads exactly like science fiction makes it seem even more fantastic and exotic than the notion of god or jesus or crucifications and resurrections and heaven and hell. even if those things don't seem realistic, at least people are familiar with the concepts of most religions since they deal with human problems and concerns. scientology on the other hand doesn't really seem to solve any human philosophical or moral needs, it's just a story.


[/ QUOTE ]

No Chris, it isn't just a story. Those alien souls, or "Body Thetans", are attached to you and everyone except the highest ranking scientologists. Body thetans are what cause weakness, worry, ailments, and other things. Scientology gets rid of those body thetans for you through many expensive exercises. Its far from a story, its an elaborately devised set of circular logic and brainwash exercises and teachings that suck you in and take your money if you are foolish enough.

[spoohunter]

When Xenu strikes you will all be sorry.

[AJFenix]

[ QUOTE ]
When Xenu strikes you will all be sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Xenu is imprisoned on another planet, heres a recent pic


http://www.3dshop.com/Gallery/SCI-FI/529S.jpg

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]
You might have a point if Jesus was quoted as saying that the easiest way to get rich was to start a religion (Hubbard is quoted as having said that).

[talentdeficit]

i doubt the church pays the celebrities directly. i think it's a lot more subtle than that, and in a lot of cases, involves blackmail.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

the money that they suck from you, is that overhead costs or do those get pocketed?

is it any more sucking than say a sunday collection that gets passed around in church? or is it blatant, "we will give you the details of xenu if you give me $100,000."

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]
You might have a point if Jesus was quoted as saying that the easiest way to get rich was to start a religion (Hubbard is quoted as having said that).

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps he did, and the boys in Rome listened, then realized that if they hired Zerehiah Copperfield to do a crucifixion/resurrection illusion they could really rake it in....maybe even build a whole city within the city with the rake.

[AJFenix]

[ QUOTE ]
the money that they suck from you, is that overhead costs or do those get pocketed?

is it any more sucking than say a sunday collection that gets passed around in church? or is it blatant, "we will give you the details of xenu if you give me $100,000."

[/ QUOTE ]

They specifically charge you money. You must pay to acquire the information. By the time you are even allowed to be exposed to the high ranking confidential crap, you have already dished out a whole lot of money on the preceding exercises and auditing sessions. Them getting rid of those body thetans for you is a service. This is NOT like a voluntary put-money-in-basket type thing. If you want to advance, you gotta pay up. Pretty expensive religion. To achieve the top rank, on average, costs USD 360,000.

[Mr_J]

[ QUOTE ]
Nicole Kidman

[/ QUOTE ]

No she isn't.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nicole Kidman

[/ QUOTE ]

No she isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, Tom Cruise was introduced to it by Mimi Rogers (he was married to her, too).

[_brady_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

DC-8 planes fitted with rocket engines!

[/ QUOTE ]

Talking snakes!

[vhawk01]

And the way they charge you is the single most important and effective part of the scam. You see, once you've paid a few thousand dollars, you really start to have a reason to really, really, REALLY want it to be true. I mean, its one thing to think that your parents and family all believe in a stupid religion and they tried to get you to do it when you were a kid. But to find out that you've doled out some SERIOUS cash towards something that isn't real? No way. That would make me look like a TOTAL tool. So, now I'm pretty much committed to this thing until the end. Its no longer possible for me to quit, so I just get in deeper.

[EricCartman]

Scientologists are a bunch of god damn HIPPIES!

[Jimmyjohn]

Who gets the money? Who owns the gig???

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

DC-8 planes fitted with rocket engines!

[/ QUOTE ]

Talking snakes!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close.

I don't think Christianity is very reasonable, but compared to scientology it's extremely solid. Virtually everything in Christianity has its roots in early human culture and in symbolism that naturally evolved over human history (and exists in many cultures).

A talking snake makes quite a bit of sense in terms of explaining the world, if you didn't have science. It would be strange for snakes not to have some symbolism, given their place in various ecosystems.

A DC-8 plane, however, doesn't quite fit that criterion. And even if it did, while a talking snake is a guise a divine creature might have reason to adopt, a DC-8 plane is an absolutely unreasonable construction for a space vessel. Particularly since the design has been improved on since Hubbard's time. It's about as reasonable as the idea of aliens traveling the galaxy in Victorian-era carriages drawn by space-horses. And that's just one of the many elements that are virtually impossible to swallow.

Scientology is really on its own in terms of absurdity. Not even the Mormons are that crazy!

[David Steele]

For a good summary see:

South Park: Scientology: Episode 912: Trapped in the Closet

Dave

[spoohunter]

Tom Cruise... won't come out of the closet.. oh why... why won't he come out of the closet... AND THEN I PULL OUT MY GUN!

[_brady_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

DC-8 planes fitted with rocket engines!

[/ QUOTE ]

Talking snakes!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close.

I don't think Christianity is very reasonable, but compared to scientology it's extremely solid. Virtually everything in Christianity has its roots in early human culture and in symbolism that naturally evolved over human history (and exists in many cultures).

A talking snake makes quite a bit of sense in terms of explaining the world, if you didn't have science. It would be strange for snakes not to have some symbolism, given their place in various ecosystems.

A DC-8 plane, however, doesn't quite fit that criterion. And even if it did, while a talking snake is a guise a divine creature might have reason to adopt, a DC-8 plane is an absolutely unreasonable construction for a space vessel. Particularly since the design has been improved on since Hubbard's time. It's about as reasonable as the idea of aliens traveling the galaxy in Victorian-era carriages drawn by space-horses. And that's just one of the many elements that are virtually impossible to swallow.

Scientology is really on its own in terms of absurdity. Not even the Mormons are that crazy!

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree with where you're going here, but we're still talking about a talking snake. Just because there could be some symbolism doesn't make it any less crazy than DC-8 planes and what not.

Mainly, I just don't think Christians have any room to criticise Scientology for their crazy beliefs.

[tcleberg]

Bump to OOT.

[$_DEADSEXE_$]

Tom Cruise got Comedy Central to stop airing that episode...so dont plan on seeing it anytime soon.

[MidGe]

Under "What's going on now" you can find the scientology South Park episode available for download here (http://www.xenu.net/).

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that an impartial observer would find Christianity (for example) any less ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

DC-8 planes fitted with rocket engines!

[/ QUOTE ]

Talking snakes!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close.

I don't think Christianity is very reasonable, but compared to scientology it's extremely solid. Virtually everything in Christianity has its roots in early human culture and in symbolism that naturally evolved over human history (and exists in many cultures).

A talking snake makes quite a bit of sense in terms of explaining the world, if you didn't have science. It would be strange for snakes not to have some symbolism, given their place in various ecosystems.

A DC-8 plane, however, doesn't quite fit that criterion. And even if it did, while a talking snake is a guise a divine creature might have reason to adopt, a DC-8 plane is an absolutely unreasonable construction for a space vessel. Particularly since the design has been improved on since Hubbard's time. It's about as reasonable as the idea of aliens traveling the galaxy in Victorian-era carriages drawn by space-horses. And that's just one of the many elements that are virtually impossible to swallow.

Scientology is really on its own in terms of absurdity. Not even the Mormons are that crazy!

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree with where you're going here, but we're still talking about a talking snake. Just because there could be some symbolism doesn't make it any less crazy than DC-8 planes and what not.

Mainly, I just don't think Christians have any room to criticise Scientology for their crazy beliefs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not a christian, and I am not a very big fan of that religion, however you cannot even remotely compare Scientology to Christianity.

Scientology is a cult, a pyramid scheme, and a scam. Discussion in this thread has thus far focused mainly on the "creation mythos" of Judeao-Christianity versus that of Scientology. That is largely irrelevant. What is relevant to this discussion is the difference in the way these two religions behave.

Many of the highest ranking members of the Church of Scientology are literally criminals. This "Church" has done some truly terrible things, it has ruined the lives of many people, and has bilked the guillible out of hundreds of millions of dollars, in some of the most dishonest and underhanded ways imaginable. It has constantly run afoul of the IRS, and many of its higher ranking members are, or have been in jail. Its founder was a flim-flam man. While a bit dated, there is a particularly good Time article on the myriad of different terrible things this "Church" has done here:

Scroll down past the first paragraph of the web page to get to the body of the article (http://www.scientomogy.com/cult.php)

I highly recommend reading that article.

Some Highlights from the article on the things the "Church of Scientology has done:"

[ QUOTE ]
During the early 1970s, the IRS conducted its own auditing sessions and proved that Hubbard was skimming millions of dollars from the church, laundering the money through dummy corporations in Panama and stashing it in Swiss bank accounts. Moreover, church members stole IRS documents, filed false tax returns and harassed the agency's employees.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The Church Buys massive quantities of its own books from retail stores to propel the titles onto best-seller lists.

[/ QUOTE ]


They Have Also:

--Set up Dummy Corporations that hide their true affiliation with Scientology to try to pull people into it without knowing what it is. (Such as Sterling Management Systems, a scam that targets dentists)

--Abused the American litigation and courts system to attack and silence their enemies to such an extent that their own former lawyer has stated that the church "has so subverted justice and the judicial system that it should be barred from seeking equity in any court."

--Have used "rare coin" scams, for which several of their large contributors are currently serving time.

--Have attempted to plant Scientology members in the SEC, in the IRS, and in several other important financial and governmental institutions, so as to use insider information to increase the church investments profitability.

--Used Private Investigators to dig up dirt on their "enemies" (such as authors who publish works critical of the church), and in some cases have actually attempted to frame authors for crimes. (See the article I linked above)

--Have been linked to murders (see article linked above)

In the 1990's several prominent Scientologists including L. Ron Hubbard's wife were convicted of illegally infiltrating and wiretapping over 100 private financial and government agencies. At the time, an FBI official stated that the Scientology intelligence network may have rivalled that of the FBI.


Some Quotes attributed to L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this "religion"

[ QUOTE ]
"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."

- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
the easiest way to make money would be to start a religion."

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"Show me any person who is critical of us and I’ll show you crimes and intended crimes that would stand a magistrate’s hair on end."

- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 4 April 1965


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace."

- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 15 August 1960, Dept. of Govt. Affairs


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly."

- L. Ron Hubbard, A MANUAL ON THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL, 1955


[/ QUOTE ]

In his later years, it is arguable that Hubbard was advocating the genocide of all non-scientologists and scientologists who had not reached "level 2" on the "Scientology Tone Scale:"

[ QUOTE ]
"In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints."

- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, 1989 Ed., p. 145 [The "Tone Scale" is Scientology’s measure of mental and spiritual health.]


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.
- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170"

- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the Tone Scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered."

- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170


[/ QUOTE ]
For a full list of some of his more memorable quotes, THIS (http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/5.htm) is a goood resource.
To compare this cult to any other religion, be it Catholicism, Mormonism, Islam, or even some of the really out there fringe religions such as wiccanism, etc., is laughable.