View Full Version : when does BlackJack turn into a +EV game?
I am not sure how to find the answer to this question but I have always wondered. This is the rule set in my local casino (pretty soft I think).
The rules:
Dealer doesn't hit soft 17
6 decks
Insurance is offered.
BlackJack pays 3 to 2
No Surrender is offered
Can double down with any two.
Only one card after split aces
Assume player plays perfect basic strategy, what is the lowest count where the player has an edge?
What if the player is adjusting his play_bet size based on the count.
How much does it matter to count aces.
This is using the +1 0 -1 method.
Blackjack can only be a +ev game if you are the casino running it.
reed62783
03-10-2006, 05:39 PM
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Blackjack can only be a +ev game if you are the casino running it.
[/ QUOTE ]
cardcounter0
03-10-2006, 06:01 PM
When the true count is a little bit over +1.
thanks cardcounter,
to TDP+reed, why do you post as though you know what you are talking about when you clearly have no idea?
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When the true count is a little bit over +1.
[/ QUOTE ]
is this with basic strategy, or adjusting you play based on the count?
SNOWBALL
03-11-2006, 05:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
thanks cardcounter,
to TDP+reed, why do you post as though you know what you are talking about when you clearly have no idea?
[/ QUOTE ]
ahem irony
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[ QUOTE ]
thanks cardcounter,
to TDP+reed, why do you post as though you know what you are talking about when you clearly have no idea?
[/ QUOTE ]
ahem irony
[/ QUOTE ]
can you explain why?
if blackjack is never +EV then why are there professional BJ players?
When the count gets high enoughthen every bet you make is +EV. If I am wrong somewhere here I would really like to know.
SNOWBALL
03-12-2006, 12:00 AM
Ski,
You are right about BJ. I didn't have anything to add to what you said, so I just quoted you instead. Then I realized that it was kind of ironic that I did a no-add quote in support of your response to a no add quote.
cardcounter0
03-12-2006, 10:37 AM
Basic Strategy, except don't hit 16 v T in positive counts.
[ QUOTE ]
Ski,
You are right about BJ. I didn't have anything to add to what you said, so I just quoted you instead. Then I realized that it was kind of ironic that I did a no-add quote in support of your response to a no add quote.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol, I thought about this for about 5 minutes, then figured it out.
The Monk
03-15-2006, 10:56 AM
To use as an approximation.....for each True Count of +1 you gain approximately .5% So therefore if you start out at a blackjack game that the casino has a .37% house advantage (just used this number at random as many are in this range) as soon as you hit that TC of +1 you have the advantage. Obviously you make part of your money by putting more money into play when you have the advantage and less when the house has the advantage (called spreading your bet). Of course by adjusting your play to the indices you can further gain an advantage and again cut the house advantage even in a negative deck.
The application of the above without being backed off is the real art to this game in my humble opinion.
Shaggy
03-15-2006, 12:55 PM
Concerning your question about the ace side count:
I assume you are presently using the Hi/Low method. Counting 2-6 as +1 and 10s and Aces as -1. Playing a 6 deck shoe game you will not benefit (noticeably) from a separate side count of aces. Playing Basic Strategy is fine, but learning 18 indices (not just any 18, but the top 18 see link at bottom) will give you about 75% of the edge gained by learning all the indices. In shoe games, you will get most of your edge from your bet spread. The indices don't play as big of a part as they do in single and double deck games. Check out www.blackjackforumonline for more info.
-Shaggy
LionelHutz00
03-15-2006, 01:22 PM
Q: when does BlackJack turn into a +EV game?
A: when you play it on Party
The Monk
03-18-2006, 04:00 PM
Hi Ski, The game turns into your advantage when the True count is approximately +1 and over. Add +.5% to your advantage for every +1 in TC. This is WITH playing basic strategy. If you vary your play with the indices it gets even better. Side count of aces adds fuel to the fire but is not necessary.
The Monk
03-18-2006, 04:07 PM
You can easily add to this the most important of all the indices gaining you about 18% overall of any count system the insurance bet.
+3 TC for 6 deck shoes and approximately +2.5 for a 2 deck game. You will see some writers list this as TC +2 and some list this as TC +3. It is somehere in betwixt.
ColdCaller
03-19-2006, 01:06 PM
.5% for +1 TC, as others have said, and insurance if TC => 3. Don't hit 16 against dealer T in TC=1, and there are some slight modifications you can do to increase your edge.
It's still unlikely that you'll benefit in the long run. Card counting is very tough, and the smallest mistakes can cause wild fluctuations. Practice counting a full deck at home and zeroing out one, then two, then up to four decks by yourself as quickly as possible.
AlienBoy
03-22-2006, 02:50 PM
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This is using the +1 0 -1 method.
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It depends on the specific counting method - you are just using basic hi.lo with multiple decks? you need to convert to true count first.
You might consider learning KO Count (Knockout Counting) it is an unbalanced count so there is no need to do the true count conversion with multiple decks.
http://www.koblackjack.com/
A good site for counters is BJ21.com (Stanford Wong's site).
Cheers
AB
DCWGaming
03-23-2006, 07:50 AM
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thanks cardcounter,
to TDP+reed, why do you post as though you know what you are talking about when you clearly have no idea?
[/ QUOTE ]
ahem irony
[/ QUOTE ]
If this was true, everybody could play blackjack and win without having to study the game too much. I dont have the math to prove you wrong, but lately, blackjack has been widely criticized compared to poker as a means of professional gambling.
can you explain why?
if blackjack is never +EV then why are there professional BJ players?
When the count gets high enoughthen every bet you make is +EV. If I am wrong somewhere here I would really like to know.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Monk
03-24-2006, 09:03 PM
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Blackjack can only be a +ev game if you are the casino running it.
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Can you back that up with some facts? Did you read the above posts? Do you know the game for a card counter is based on mathematics? Just curious on how you can make a statement when it's obvious so many good books can prove you wrong.
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