Live 10/20 game - big pot with a draw and lots of spewing.

[TMTTR]

Table has been very loose aggressive and there are some very smart players at the table. I have not been out of line at all -- until this hand. If anything, I have been playing a little tighter and a little more passive than I usually do. There were enough players doing my betting for me. Anyway...

Reads:

Hijack (my immediate right), has been a little too loose but is a reasonably good, aggressive post-flop player and he respects my game (perhaps inappropriately?).

BB is a good tricky player.

SB is a loose and not very good player who is frequently raising at inappropriate times (and you can assume that the other players also know this).

Button is weak-passive.

Hero is in CO with 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Pre-flop: Three limpers, hero calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB calls, first two limpers call, Villain 1 raises, hero calls two bets cold, button folds, SB caps and everyone calls around, Hero calls.

Flop (6 players, 25 SB): 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB bets, BB calls, limper1 folds, limper2 calls, hijack raises, hero 3 bets, SB folds, BB calls, limper2 calls, hijack caps, hero calls and so does everyone else.

Turn (4 players, 21 BB): 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB bets, limper2 folds, hijack calls, hero raises, BB calls, hijack folds.

River (2 players, 26 BB): 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, hero bets.

Flame away and I will try to provide insufficient justification for my actions.

[gopnik]

definitely bad raise on the turn, you don't have enough equity to raise here. I won't even raise the flop here. Nice suckout.

[Buck_65]

I'd fold preflop for 2 bets back to me. Your implied odds are sliced drastically when you put in this many bets. The turn raise is awful spewing. No one's folding and the raise is definitely not for value, so you're just lighting money on fire when you do that. Rivering the 3 is standard.

[Goodie54]

What they said.

Peace

Goodie

[fishyak]

I actually like the cold call PF. Lots of players, hopefully looking for high cards. One bet already in before the raising starts. A good time to "break the rules" and see if you are a player. Adn sure enough, the flop puts you in play, probably for the duration.

Explain you thinking on the turn raise. Your 8 outs have paired board and heart flush draw problems. I see no upside there. It did knock some people out, but if you didn't hit, the higher probability, are you going to hope that your 56s will hold up or are you planning on bluffing it out?

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually like the cold call PF. Lots of players, hopefully looking for high cards. One bet already in before the raising starts. A good time to "break the rules" and see if you are a player. Adn sure enough, the flop puts you in play, probably for the duration.


[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly my thoughts preflop. I had been playing tight and it was the best opportunity to break the rules with a hand that was definitely be a "fit-or-fold" on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Explain you thinking on the turn raise. Your 8 outs have paired board and heart flush draw problems. I see no upside there. It did knock some people out, but if you didn't hit, the higher probability, are you going to hope that your 56s will hold up or are you planning on bluffing it out?

[/ QUOTE ]

My insufficient explanation of the turn raise:

I thought I might successfully represent a made boat. The two remaining players were good enough and I had been passive enough to possibly pull this off. I was pretty confident that neither of the other two players had the boat -- BB would have check-raised the turn and Hijack looked uncomfortable facing the paired board. (Indeed hijack's commented quietly while folding that his flush draw was no good against my boat.)

All that being said, I think the turn raise was spewing in the heat of the moment... if I was a little more rational, I would have check-called the turn.

Assuming I did check-call the turn, I guess I would raise a river donk -- but could I fold to a three-bet?

[MagicRat]

[ QUOTE ]
Rivering the 3 is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[gopnik]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming I did check-call the turn, I guess I would raise a river donk -- but could I fold to a three-bet?


[/ QUOTE ]
No. If you do, the ghost of Ed Miller will come and hunt you for the rest of your life.

[fishyak]

The problem is your own description of BB as your toughest opponent and he is your adversary at the showdown. I say call down or bet, not raise. Depending on the river card, you need to evaluate are you really ahead 2/3's of the time to raise? The pot is too big to fold to a 3 bet. I want to see this showdown with my straight, but I want to see it cheap.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is your own description of BB as your toughest opponent and he is your adversary at the showdown. I say call down or bet, not raise. Depending on the river card, you need to evaluate are you really ahead 2/3's of the time to raise? The pot is too big to fold to a 3 bet. I want to see this showdown with my straight, but I want to see it cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I am ahead well over 2/3 of the time on the river. I absolutely could not put him on a full house and that was the only thing that beats me. As played, I think he most likely had a 4 (probably A4s), or -- less likely -- a pair and a flush draw or just the nut flush draw. I can't see him playing any other hand this way.

[pikkupossu]

whats up with the turn raise? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
or did i read it wrong?
nope, didnt read it wrong, whats up with the turn raise?

if you call the turn, then you can raise the river if you hit. i guess you wanted to see if anyone had JJ or 77?