Scientists create 3.6 billion degree plasma ... by accident

[SomethingClever]

article (http://www.livescience.com/technology/060308_sandia_z.html)

That's insane.

[theweatherman]

How does this not melt whatever is holding it?

[SomethingClever]

Also, how long before we start seeing these:

http://www.fortunecity.es/consola/aventura/219/legacygl1.jpg

[Case Closed]

That's quite the accident.

[KeysrSoze]

Says they're getting more energy out of it than they're putting in. Guess Exxon will be sending in their hit-squad soon.

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]
How does this not melt whatever is holding it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Plasma is electrially charged and therefore can be constrained by a magnetic field so no physical container is required.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How does this not melt whatever is holding it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Plasma is electrially charged and therefore can be constrained by a magnetic field so no physical container is required.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah didn't you see spiderman 2?

[Metric]

Another puzzle: if the "extra energy" was due to a specific nuclear reaction, the x-ray spectrum would probably be obvious, and "not thermal."

[BCPVP]

The Z Machine. Sounds a lot like some sort of doomsday-Final Fantasy type thing...

[tolbiny]

damn thats scary. Perhpas some madman with nukes won't blow up the world, it'll be some NASA nerd who accidentally melts the earth.

[MatthewRyan]

Why didnt the machine melt? what can withstand 3,600,000,000 degrees F?

[tolbiny]

Magnetic field, its been spelled out in the article.

[Metric]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didnt the machine melt? what can withstand 3,600,000,000 degrees F?

[/ QUOTE ]
One should also keep in mind that a tiny bit of matter, even if extremely hot, may not contain much energy. Usually "magnetic confinement" is used for the purpose of keeping the plasma hot, rather than to keep the experimental apparatus cool.

[rageotones]

who was holding the thermometer?

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why didnt the machine melt? what can withstand 3,600,000,000 degrees F?

[/ QUOTE ]
One should also keep in mind that a tiny bit of matter, even if extremely hot, may not contain much energy. Usually "magnetic confinement" is used for the purpose of keeping the plasma hot, rather than to keep the experimental apparatus cool.

[/ QUOTE ]
for some reason im also under the impression the duration of the heat was very brief, but i could be wrong.

[SomethingClever]

Apparently the same machine can also accelerate a small plate from 0 to 76,000 mph in one second.

link (http://www.livescience.com/technology/050607_z_machine.html)

That's one hell of a machine.

[ouyangl]

I'm pretty sure they have a rail gun at that laboratory

Basically its two rails of metal with an 'armature' in the middle completing the circuit. Since current creates a magnetic field, the circuit actually creates a magnetic field that pushes the armature out. A lot of current is needed to create this phenomenon. With 2,000,000V (i think thats what the article said) and an armature that weighs so light, and probably the most superconductive material available to anyone, something like this is really only expected.

I tried making one of those for my Physics class last year. Needless to say, it failed. It sucks that everything in our world is designed for like 20V and Home Depot doesn't sell voltage multipliers

Didn't know a Gauss gun would've been easier to make. I should've done that

If you want to see an amateur rail gun, check out Sam Barro's PowerLab (http://www.powerlabs.org/railgun.htm). His is insane and hes only using 3,200V

[ItalianFX]

What do you need 3.6 billion degrees for? What is it used for?

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you need 3.6 billion degrees for? What is it used for?

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you even read the article?

[Lestat]

I don't know why, but I find it disconcerting that something man made can be created in a lab that is hotter than a [censored] star.

Does anyone know if it's possible we might one day create something in a lab that could escape our control and destroy the entire planet? Just curious.

[ItalianFX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do you need 3.6 billion degrees for? What is it used for?

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you even read the article?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and I do not recall it telling me what it is used for?

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes and I do not recall it telling me what it is used for?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thier thinking that they could possibly use it to toast bread.

Stu

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you need 3.6 billion degrees for? What is it used for?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Z machine is the largest X-ray generator in the world. It’s designed to test materials under extreme temperatures and pressures. It works by releasing 20 million amps of electricity into a vertical array of very fine tungsten wires. The wires dissolve into a cloud of charged particles, a superheated gas called plasma.

[/ QUOTE ]
The 3.6 billion seems to be an accident, not something they were planning on doing something with.

Smarter men than I can probably figure out something cool to do with 3.6 billion degrees.

[8Tdiamonds]

"Why didnt the machine melt? what can withstand 3,600,000,000 degrees F?"

asbestos roaches and fruitcake

[twoblacknines]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why, but I find it disconcerting that something man made can be created in a lab that is hotter than a [censored] star.

Does anyone know if it's possible we might one day create something in a lab that could escape our control and destroy the entire planet? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lestat,
it's already been done. Nuclear weapons. It's only a matter of time before man destroys the 3rd planet.

[AquaSwing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do you need 3.6 billion degrees for? What is it used for?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Z machine is the largest X-ray generator in the world. It’s designed to test materials under extreme temperatures and pressures. It works by releasing 20 million amps of electricity into a vertical array of very fine tungsten wires. The wires dissolve into a cloud of charged particles, a superheated gas called plasma.

[/ QUOTE ]
The 3.6 billion seems to be an accident, not something they were planning on doing something with.

Smarter men than I can probably figure out something cool to do with 3.6 billion degrees.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can make toast awfully fast, along the lines of .000013 seconds.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do you need 3.6 billion degrees for? What is it used for?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Z machine is the largest X-ray generator in the world. It’s designed to test materials under extreme temperatures and pressures. It works by releasing 20 million amps of electricity into a vertical array of very fine tungsten wires. The wires dissolve into a cloud of charged particles, a superheated gas called plasma.

[/ QUOTE ]
The 3.6 billion seems to be an accident, not something they were planning on doing something with.

Smarter men than I can probably figure out something cool to do with 3.6 billion degrees.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can make toast awfully fast, along the lines of .000013 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]
Screw toast. I want to know how long it'd take for marshmallows. How long does the stick need to be so I don't melt like the people from the first Indiana Jones?

[MrMon]

[ QUOTE ]
It sucks that everything in our world is designed for like 20V and Home Depot doesn't sell voltage multipliers

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm, yeah, like transformers are really hard to make. Build one with a 1:20 coil ratio and you've got your 2400 volts. Not much amperage, but you've got 2400 volts.

[KeysrSoze]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why, but I find it disconcerting that something man made can be created in a lab that is hotter than a [censored] star.

Does anyone know if it's possible we might one day create something in a lab that could escape our control and destroy the entire planet? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Theres a hypothesis people have put forward that once an intelligent society reaches a certain level of technology and understanding, some kind of energy source becomes theoretically obvious to them, except it doesn't do what they think it will and it supernovaes their star or something equally disastrous when they flip the switch. This has happened countless times, and is why we see no technologically advanced life out there. Just a few more years until we run out of oil and get our Ice-9 or omega energy on, oh boy!

[MatthewRyan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why, but I find it disconcerting that something man made can be created in a lab that is hotter than a [censored] star.

Does anyone know if it's possible we might one day create something in a lab that could escape our control and destroy the entire planet? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Theres a hypothesis people have put forward that once an intelligent society reaches a certain level of technology and understanding, some kind of energy source becomes theoretically obvious to them, except it doesn't do what they think it will and it supernovaes their star or something equally disastrous when they flip the switch. This has happened countless times, and is why we see no technologically advanced life out there. Just a few more years until we run out of oil and get our Ice-9 or omega energy on, oh boy!

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you talking about the point at which a civilization tries become a Type I on the Kardashev scale?

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why, but I find it disconcerting that something man made can be created in a lab that is hotter than a [censored] star.

Does anyone know if it's possible we might one day create something in a lab that could escape our control and destroy the entire planet? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read up on nanotechnology and "gray goo."

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
article (http://www.livescience.com/technology/060308_sandia_z.html)

That's insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who can't see the article? All I get is a blank aqua colored page.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
article (http://www.livescience.com/technology/060308_sandia_z.html)

That's insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who can't see the article? All I get is a blank aqua colored page.

[/ QUOTE ]
give it a couple seconds and let it open

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
article (http://www.livescience.com/technology/060308_sandia_z.html)

That's insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who can't see the article? All I get is a blank aqua colored page.

[/ QUOTE ]
give it a couple seconds and let it open

[/ QUOTE ]

No, seriously. Blank page, browser says "done".

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
article (http://www.livescience.com/technology/060308_sandia_z.html)

That's insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who can't see the article? All I get is a blank aqua colored page.

[/ QUOTE ]
give it a couple seconds and let it open

[/ QUOTE ]

No, seriously. Blank page, browser says "done".

[/ QUOTE ]
holy shlt!! your browser talks?!?
ok, that was a joke, stolen and modified from the joke thread.
mine was aqua for a few seconds then it opened.
i did get an error about debugging that i answered no to.

[IronDragon1]

A general article about the doomsday which is tangentially related to the discussion at hand (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/doomsday.html)

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who can't see the article? All I get is a blank aqua colored page.

[/ QUOTE ]

Borodog -- Most likely you're using a crappy browser produced by a free market, capitalist venture. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try Firefox? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Dr. Strangelove]

ahahahaha

[HLMencken]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who can't see the article? All I get is a blank aqua colored page.

[/ QUOTE ]

Borodog -- Most likely you're using a crappy browser produced by a free market, capitalist venture. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try Firefox? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you suggesting there are choices in this so-called free market? Wow... we should tell others about this new revelation.

[amirite]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who can't see the article? All I get is a blank aqua colored page.

[/ QUOTE ]

Borodog -- Most likely you're using a crappy browser produced by a free market, capitalist venture. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try Firefox? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep reading that over and over again until it clicks.

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting there are choices in this so-called free market?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, only to the extent that the monopolies are not squelching them. :-b

[HLMencken]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting there are choices in this so-called free market?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, only to the extent that the monopolies are not squelching them. :-b

[/ QUOTE ]

Examples?

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Borodog -- Most likely you're using a crappy browser produced by a free market, capitalist venture. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try Firefox? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ] Keep reading that over and over again until it clicks.

[/ QUOTE ]

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
Examples?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of?

[CrayZee]

[ QUOTE ]
Borodog -- Most likely you're using a crappy browser produced by a free market, capitalist venture. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try Firefox? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Or Camino on the Mac. Safari is so dang slow on my computer, it sucks more than IE 5.0!

[HLMencken]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Examples?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of?

[/ QUOTE ]

Monopolies squelching any choices you have.

(And since you pointed to the free market, govt-induced monopolies don't count.)

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
Monopolies squelching any choices you have.

(And since you pointed to the free market, govt-induced monopolies don't count.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I think there may have been a communication gap in our prior posts. I may not have been clear enough about it, but I was just joking around with Borodog. (You know, the idea that capitalism will always produce the superior product/result contrasted with the reality of IE versus Firefox, the former seen by most as a product of capitalism etc., the latter coming out of a model many see as anti-capitalistic...) I thought maybe you were as well with your response to me, so I continued in the same vein. Didn't mean to start a serious discussion or highjack this thread. Still don't. My apologies if it seemed otherwise. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[HLMencken]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Monopolies squelching any choices you have.

(And since you pointed to the free market, govt-induced monopolies don't count.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I think there may have been a communication gap in our prior posts. I may not have been clear enough about it, but I was just joking around with Borodog. (You know, the idea that capitalism will always produce the superior product/result contrasted with the reality of IE versus Firefox, the former seen by most as a product of capitalism etc., the latter coming out of a model many see as anti-capitalistic...) I thought maybe you were as well with your response to me, so I continued in the same vein. Didn't mean to start a serious discussion or highjack this thread. Still don't. My apologies if it seemed otherwise. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No prob.

By the way, your premise that capitalism will always produce a superior product/result is not necessarily true, nor does it need to be.

[soon2bepro]

[ QUOTE ]
"Why didnt the machine melt? what can withstand 3,600,000,000 degrees F?"

[/ QUOTE ]

It's actually 3,600,000,000º kelvin, and if you read up in this thread you'll find an answer to that question

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't mean to start a serious discussion or highjack this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Feeney, way to hijack my thread about 3.6 billion degree plasma! Sheesh!

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Why didnt the machine melt? what can withstand 3,600,000,000 degrees F?"

[/ QUOTE ]

It's actually 3,600,000,000º kelvin, and if you read up in this thread you'll find an answer to that question

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it is 3,600,000,000 F, or about 2,000,000,000 Kelvin.

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, Feeney, way to hijack my thread about 3.6 billion degree plasma! Sheesh!

[/ QUOTE ]

My trolling was most regrettable. I must make amends. Let's get this sucker back on track!

See, I was thinking the important thing here is that the scientists who are getting these 3.6 billion degree temperatures had better sit down and do some hard thinking before they continue. When 'some unknown energy' seems to be at play, they'd best try to understand it a little better lest it have some 'unkown' consequences. (the precautionary principle, I guess). But they should obviously continue to study it since it could be a major new finding,

Along the same lines, I've seen science stories about work toward creating as new universe right in the lab. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/parallelunitrans.shtml) (interesting piece otherwise too, but scroll to bottom) It's supposed to be safe. But then it does sound like something toward which we might want to tread cautiously, though if something profoundly untoward did happen, I have a hunch we wouldn't feel a thing.

There, back on track and soon to have flames next to the topic title. (and, if you're lucky, flame wars in the thread!)

[SomethingClever]

Someone (I forget who) pointed out that you can test the multiple universe theory with a very high degree of confidence by simply attempting to shoot yourself in the head with a gun.

If the gun keeps misfiring, multiple universe theory is correct.

[PokerAmateur4]

Meh, I was microwaving popcorn the other day, movie butter, 4.6 billion degrees F on accident.

Doomsday scenarios: http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone (I forget who) pointed out that you can test the multiple universe theory with a very high degree of confidence by simply attempting to shoot yourself in the head with a gun.

If the gun keeps misfiring, multiple universe theory is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another experiment one should approach with a degree of caution.

[IronDragon1]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone (I forget who) pointed out that you can test the multiple universe theory with a very high degree of confidence by simply attempting to shoot yourself in the head with a gun.

If the gun keeps misfiring, multiple universe theory is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quantum suicide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide)

[Exsubmariner]

These guys better get the nobel prize for founding a new area of research. They could be onto something. Can anyone say fusion power? I'd be very disappointed if this phenomenon isn't investigated ad infinitum. I bet there have already been half a dozen generals who have come through asking about plasma weapons.

[madnak]

I agree the phenomenon should be investigated very seriously. Because I don't want to die in a ball of earthcineration.

[IronDragon1]

While we're bumping this thread:

Isn't the article wrong in claiming that these are the highest temperatures ever reached on Earth in a way because-I believe-much higher temperatures have been achieved in experiments using particle accelerators? (Correct me if these are disqualified for any reason, or if I am outright wrong please)

[Ampelmann]

This is definitely nice, but

1. They *do* know how they did it (at least they have a good notion). The PRL paper states already in its abstract

"Recent time-resolved iron spectra at Sandia confirm an ion temperature Ti of over 200 keV (2×10^9 degrees), as predicted by theory."

Note the last 4 words.

2. The plasma is only microscopical. Nothing to be afraid of (for now /images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

3. It will probabely take some time for other groups to reproduce this. Until then, I'm suspicious (though not too much---plasma theory is on their side).

[Metric]

I have not looked at the paper, but I suspect "as predicted by theory" means that the temperature was reconstructed by the thermal spectrum of the radiation observed. I.E. the "theory" they refer to is the theory of inferring temperatures, not explaning the "extra energy" that apparently has been the big surprise.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
While we're bumping this thread:

Isn't the article wrong in claiming that these are the highest temperatures ever reached on Earth in a way because-I believe-much higher temperatures have been achieved in experiments using particle accelerators? (Correct me if these are disqualified for any reason, or if I am outright wrong please)

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they mention other experiments that have reached very high, but still lower temperatures. Apparently this is the hottest ever, and it's not that close.

[billygrippo]

[ QUOTE ]

No, they mention other experiments that have reached very high, but still lower temperatures. Apparently this is the hottest ever, and it's not that close.

[/ QUOTE ]

i belive it said its hotter than the sun's surface.

[SomethingClever]

By far. The surface of the sun is only like 15 million F or something. I've had pizza hotter than that.

[Gobgogbog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

No, they mention other experiments that have reached very high, but still lower temperatures. Apparently this is the hottest ever, and it's not that close.

[/ QUOTE ]

i belive it said its hotter than the sun's surface.

[/ QUOTE ]

It said it was hotter than the sun's interior

[billygrippo]

[ QUOTE ]

It said it was hotter than the sun's interior

[/ QUOTE ]

THAT is impressive.

[spoohunter]

FWIW I tried to recreate this experiment using my microwave and a poodle with mixed results.

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I tried to recreate this experiment using my microwave and a poodle with mixed results.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which universe are you in? The one where the poodle dies or survives?