Poker Office vs. Poker Tracker

[Snafu'd]

I did a search on the above subject line and did not find exactly what I was looking for, so if there is a thread that explains the advantages and disadvantages of the programs, I'd greatly appreciate the link. Anyway, I picked up Poker Office for free (well sort of) through an Empire promotion. Now they have released Poker Office 2. While some of the upgrades look cool, I am worried that there will be a PO3, PO4, PO140 that they are going to want to charge to upgrade to every time. I am curious if Poker Tracker does the same thing. I realize that PT is recognized by most users of this forum to be the elite software of its kind, so I'm wondering if I should ditch Poker Office and just go for Poker Tracker. Any comments on the two would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[jayknitter]

I know this isn't what your looking for, but I think if you already have a license for PO1, you can sign up for a new account at Nobel Poker and get a free upgrade to PO2 with out even being required to play any hands. Thats the way I understand it anyway.

I also believe that Poker Tracker did make users pay to upgrade from version 1 to version 2. But that was before I owned the software so I can't give you any details on if that situation was handled any better than the PO2 situation.

[Overdrive]

Pokeroffice (2.0)advantages: Much easier to use than pokertracker, has more features already built in like a table overlay display, hand replayer and more. Overall much sleeker and better designed than pokertraker.

Pokertracker advatage: Supports many more sites than Pokeroffice at the moment.

[Knockwurst]

Here's the link to the Great PO v. PT Debate (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=4282649&an=0&page=5# Post4282649)

I only have PT (and am still finding my way around it /images/graemlins/blush.gif) so I can't weigh in.

[3CardMonty]

I am reviewing Poker Tracker now and no doubt it is an excellent piece of software.

As for the version rush question. I don't believe this is the case. I think the folks at Poker Office have released a significantly improved product hence the new version and associated charge to upgrade.

There are advantages to Poker Tracker being that they support so many more sites and unless I am missing something you can inport the Poker Tracker data into Poker Office so you have the additional info available within Poker Office as well. I have not tried this yet but will soon as I am running a trial version of Poker Tracker before dropping the purchase funds to acquire it.

It would seem to me that Poker Office is representing the wave of future online tracking and HUD implementations. I can't wait for them to bring on the other major sites to complete the suite of supported venues.

Although I am not happy with some aspects of the Poker Tracker team I do think the product is worthy of merit. I also think they need to reach beyond today and into the future as Poker Office has allready done.

Monty

[3CardMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the link to the Great PO v. PT Debate (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=4282649&an=0&page=5# Post4282649)

I only have PT (and am still finding my way around it /images/graemlins/blush.gif) so I can't weigh in.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it matters much I found Poker Office very user friendly and was up and running in no time.

[3CardMonty]

I almost said it before but didn't so now I will.

I am so happy with Poker Office if they came out with a major upgrade of the quality of the last I would jump on it in a heartbeat. It was well worth the price for the package.

[excession]

I donwloaded the PO2 trial to have a look and can immediately see that the autorate rules don't have stats available like WtSD% and W$SD so you can't flag weak-tighties or calling stations as categories - if it's meant to be better for table selection than using PT + PAHUD that is a big problem right away...

I do like the look of it though (especially the flop analysis tool)and will try it out - looks like if you sign up at Noble Poker or Empire and play a couple of hundred raked hands you get it for free - seems like a win win situation..

that said, if you do want to pay your $79 for it, I can't see a neteller option (which is odd - my poker money is kept separate from my 'real money' and I have a much lower tolerance for poker spending out of neteller than out of the joint account with my wife)

[patk]

[ QUOTE ]
I donwloaded the PO2 trial to have a look and can immediately see that the autorate rules don't have stats available like WtSD% and W$SD so you can't flag weak-tighties or calling stations as categories - if it's meant to be better for table selection than using PT + PAHUD that is a big problem right away...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I noticed that immediately as well and brought that to their attention. They'll be adding it in a patch (hopefully soon). You do have flop-turn% and turn-river% which is better than nothing, but I do certainly miss the went to showdown saw flop %....

[excession]

well I just used it on Noble Poker for about 90 minutes.

I chose Noble Poker as if you sign up thru them once you have played 200 raked hands they give you a registration code for PO2 for free. It also isn't PT compatible so it's a site that using PO2 should give you an advantage at over PT..

Noble Poker is a small site with bad players but is badly in need of standard options like 4 color decks and turning off animations/avatars etc..

I played using PO2 from the off and found the following:
1. There is no HUD overlay for that site for PO2 - so you have to have open separate game-time type windows - that means you can only 2 table even with the mega-res Dell 9300 laptop..

2. The info on players in real time is way behind what PT + PAHUD make available - I had no idea of the CB%, CC%, WtSD%, W$SD% - it was more or less like playing blind - didn't use the window much at all except to check the occasional PFR%

3. It missed some hands somewhere as although I was up overall it showed my as a loser - this is very bad - I don't think I've ever seen PT miss hands like that..

4. It shows stuff like best possible hand out there and some odds that I didn't really look at - my concern would be if these player 'assistant' features breach any TOS of the main sites - has PO2 been cleared for use by Party, Stars etc? (again I chose Noble as I figured it was obviously OK to use there and it isn't one of my main sites either).


All in all I was pretty unexcited by what I saw - I think some of the filters might be quite good for analysing play afterwards (nothing you can't do with PT SQL enquiries but more user friendly) but for real time play my first imporessions are that it is a poor choice compared to PT and PAHUD at the moment..

Nevertheless I will plod on at Noble and get my reg. for PO2 and see if it's better for other sites and if the info displayed about other players improves..

[3CardMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
I donwloaded the PO2 trial to have a look and can immediately see that the autorate rules don't have stats available like WtSD% and W$SD so you can't flag weak-tighties or calling stations as categories - if it's meant to be better for table selection than using PT + PAHUD that is a big problem right away...

I do like the look of it though (especially the flop analysis tool)and will try it out - looks like if you sign up at Noble Poker or Empire and play a couple of hundred raked hands you get it for free - seems like a win win situation..

that said, if you do want to pay your $79 for it, I can't see a neteller option (which is odd - my poker money is kept separate from my 'real money' and I have a much lower tolerance for poker spending out of neteller than out of the joint account with my wife)

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly agree with your reasoning that acquiring the software as an added piece to the arsenal you allready have in place (Poker Tracker and HUD) is a wise win win when it is obtained via the sign up at Noble or Empire. It wins for the sites, the player, and helps further the development of Poker Office. This additionaly leads to enhanced development of the Poker Tracker and the available HUD suites as well. It is indeed a win for everyone and especially the consumer of the end product no matter what the product or where the product comes from.

As for why Neteller is an option my guess is that it is there as a ready means of cash transfer to be used much the same as PayPal would be and resloves the issues of currency exchange, credit card availability, and etc.

Why not use the joint account to fund NeTeller for the purchase and it wins for them as well.

Monty

[excession]

lol in the real world because I don't have to justify spending my 'poker money' on poker, but after a very expensive Xmas there isn't really $79 spare for my 'poker treats' in the joint a/c - I could organise a transfer from neteller to my UK bank but that is a pain - I guess most folks pay be using Empire/Noble Poker offer I suppose..

[patk]

Hey excession,

you can customize the overlay to add in many of the stats you are used to. For the stats that aren't available, they will be adding those stats in a patch soon(and I really miss wtsd%). They are responsive to that stuff though, and if ye shall ask, ye shall recieved /images/graemlins/wink.gif

That said, it would be cool if the PAHUD author support PO /images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for the missed hands: odd, i've never had that happen, but I play on stars... They grab the info from 2 sources though: HH file and the HH window (on stars). When playing live, they grab it from the HH window (at least, on stars they do). If it ever missed something, you could always import the HH file to pick it up, but that is obviously suboptimal...

[ QUOTE ]
has PO2 been cleared for use by Party, Stars etc? (again I chose Noble as I figured it was obviously OK to use there and it isn't one of my main sites either).

[/ QUOTE ]
It's explicitly listed on PokerStars "OK to use software list". I've never seen a piece of software disqualified for showing you odds, anywhere.

[yskhyr]

Does anyone have any experience using PO on party, 9-tabling? How much CPU does it eat and how well does it work with resizing?

The reason I'm asking is that the PAHud is reluctant to show me the extra stats tab thingy when I have many tables open.

The onscreen stats from PAHud also disappears and reappears every now and then..

I guess both my problems with PAHUD is because my harddrive might be alittle too full or my PT database alittle too big but I would hate to start a new db.. thanks

[phu_dawg]

I have both PokerOffice 2 and PokerTracker w/ PAHUD. Whenever possible, I use PO2. My reasons are many, but I am a big limit NL player on Stars and Party where playing the player is essential to my bottomline. Livetracker and overlay displays built into PO2 is way better than PAHUD. And it really makes a difference. Admittedly, PT is the better tracking software. But it's interface is difficult to use. PO2 is the much more easily accessible of the two solutions.

You can always get both, and there are methods to getting both for free if you don't want to pay for them. My recommendation is that if you can, get both. If you can't get both, but play on PO2 compatible sites only, get PO2. You here alot of complaints about PO2 not working with some sites, but my play is exclusively on Stars and Party, so I don't gripe too much about it =). If the fish ever move from Party and Stars, you'll hear me griping.

Both applications are an investment to your poker profession and bottomlime. And are relatively small investments really. They have both paid themselves off many thousands of times over for me.

P.S.

- If you get either, make sure you upgrade the databases. They will both run much faster once you do so. MySQL and PostgreSQL for PO2 and PT respectively.
- Also, with PO2, tweek the overlay display to add session stats and overall stats, then split the display to two rows and 4 stats per row. (you can add more stats if you like) You'll get the best mileage out of PO2's livetracker this way.
- Firewall/Anti Virus programs often conflict with PT and PO2. If you can't get either to work, turn off your FW and AV until after you installed both PO2, PT, and upgrade the databases.

[phu_dawg]

[ QUOTE ]

1. There is no HUD overlay for that site for PO2 - so you have to have open separate game-time type windows - that means you can only 2 table even with the mega-res Dell 9300 laptop..

Not sure what you mean here.

2. The info on players in real time is way behind what PT + PAHUD make available - I had no idea of the CB%, CC%, WtSD%, W$SD% - it was more or less like playing blind - didn't use the window much at all except to check the occasional PFR%

You can add to the overlay display, the stats you would like to be displayed during live play. By default, the display stats are minimal

3. It missed some hands somewhere as although I was up overall it showed my as a loser - this is very bad - I don't think I've ever seen PT miss hands like that..

Set PO to update every hand.

4. It shows stuff like best possible hand out there and some odds that I didn't really look at - my concern would be if these player 'assistant' features breach any TOS of the main sites - has PO2 been cleared for use by Party, Stars etc? (again I chose Noble as I figured it was obviously OK to use there and it isn't one of my main sites either).

Honestly, I don't use this feature all that much. But there has yet to be an issue at any of the sites I play at in regards to PO use.



[/ QUOTE ]

[Mustafa]

[ QUOTE ]

- If you get either, make sure you upgrade the databases. They will both run much faster once you do so. MySQL and PostgreSQL for PO2 and PT respectively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone help us non-IT types with how to upgrade the databases? I've tried abracadabra and hocus pocus and I can't get it to work.

[DougG]

Take a look at some of the recent threads at the PO forums - there's apparently a problem if you use the latest release of MySQL.

[Mustafa]

I know what SQL stands for, and I even used to write database queries in it, but I still don't know how to upgrade from whatever db PO uses tp MySQL. That is where I need the tip. And please speak slowwwwwwwly.

[DougG]

There's an online manual up for Poker Office now - you can find step by step instructions here: Convert Database to MySQL (http://www.pokeroffice.com/doc/Appendices.html#ConvertMySQL)

You should make sure that you've downloaded version 4.1.14 of MySQL instead of the most recent one, since the most recent one apparently isn't working. There are some threads about that in the support forum like this one (http://www.pokeroffice.com/forum/post.php?cat=1&fid=4&pid=1903&page=1)

[bziegler2]

In addition to Poker Tracker and Poker Office, another cheap option ($25) is PokerManager:

http://www.pokermgr.com

[Mustafa]

[ QUOTE ]
There's an online manual up for Poker Office now - you can find step by step instructions here: Convert Database to MySQL (http://www.pokeroffice.com/doc/Appendices.html#ConvertMySQL)

You should make sure that you've downloaded version 4.1.14 of MySQL instead of the most recent one, since the most recent one apparently isn't working. There are some threads about that in the support forum like this one (http://www.pokeroffice.com/forum/post.php?cat=1&fid=4&pid=1903&page=1)

[/ QUOTE ]
That's awesome. Thanks, man.

[kevb81]

what would you guys recommend for a new player? I am fairly new at playing compared to most of you. I want the program that will help me improve my game the most and make the best decisions. Right now, I mostly play on pokerroom. Ive read the pokertracker vs poker office debate and found it to be inconclusive

[tomtemor]

[ QUOTE ]
what would you guys recommend for a new player? I am fairly new at playing compared to most of you. I want the program that will help me improve my game the most and make the best decisions. Right now, I mostly play on pokerroom. Ive read the pokertracker vs poker office debate and found it to be inconclusive

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer Poker Office because I really like the built in live tracker and I also think Poker Office has better filtering options for post game analysis.

In my oppinion Poker Office is the software that's easier to learn for a new player - it's more user friendly and does'nt require any add-on's.

[Snafu'd]

Looks like the discussion is still going so I'll chime back in. I've stuck it out with PO2 even though there have been several times that I've considered making the switch to PT. The only reason I've ever considered switching is because PO2 doesn't support all the sites I play on (Absolute is my biggest issue). That being said, I have to hand it to the PO guys because they have been working hard at releasing several updates recently that have added many more sites to their supported list. They are also going to be adding 15 more statistics to the table overlay (WtSD% when saw flop and WSD% are among these). There are several users (myself included) requesting a more customizable overlay on the PO discussion boards. If you are patient, it seems they really try to develop things that are requested so I have hopes that they will work on this in future updates.

As far as what is better for new users - I can only speak to my experience with PO2. I found it very easy to get up and running with this software. You don't have to purchase any add-ons so you do need to take that into account when comparing price points. If you play at the major sites, chances are that PO2 supports it. I have had some memory issues while multitabling on Party but I'm pretty sure that is just as much a Party software problem as it is a PO2 problem. Hope this helps those trying to decide which one to purchase.

[MLSchaff]

PO2 is closing the gap on available statistics now. They recently released a patch which allows use of C-bet%, WTSD%, W$SD% and others.

This was (justifiably) a major argument against PO2 and in favor of PT.

PO2 still lacks some of the big sites, but have recently added 2 more networks (pokerroom and b2b).

I've been a PO (1 & 2) user for a while and love it. PT is just too damn ugly. I was on the verge of switching because of the missing stats, but now that they're on there I don't see myself giving up PO.

[Kapsylen]

I second that, I love all the new stats that was added in the last update. Poker Office is sure getting better and better.

[Lloyd]

I've been using PO2 for awhile. My biggest complaint is that every now and then it gets bogged down and starts eating up a huge amount of resources. I've gone back and forth with support but can't figure out what's causing it. I know it only happens when a table is closed. If I'm playing a ring game at the same table it works perfectly. If I'm playing a tournament and get moved from table to table, at some point I find it using upwards of 95% of my (fairly robust) system resources. I then have to shut it down and restart PO2 and it works just fine.

With that said, I really like the program. I do have a request for PO2 power users though. I had no idea about the recent stat additions. I would greatly appreciate it if people would share what stats they use for both the live tracker and the overlay.

Thanks.

[boondoggle]

I would use pokermanager soley if it had live tracker at more sites. With that being said, I use pokeroffice for the non supported pokermanager sites.

Ben get pokerroom live tracker support added!!!

cheers
Boon

[kslghost]

<3 PT... :-D Ugliness is perfect, as it fits in with all the poker sites!

[APerfect10]

I know PT3 will be in the works shortly and I can promise that it will blow PO and the current PT away...

[checkraiseTHIS]

Will it cost $$ to upgrade to PT3?

[skaughty]

[ QUOTE ]
Will it cost $$ to upgrade to PT3?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it "blows away" PT2 and PO2 it *should* cost. Pat should bump the price to $75 and make it $50 for an upgrade.

Any word on a timeframe? 4Q 2006, Summer 2007? Ballpark?

Scott

[tomtemor]

[ QUOTE ]
I would greatly appreciate it if people would share what stats they use for both the live tracker and the overlay.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have two lines of stats. The first line is:

# of Hands Played, VPIP , PFR % , Cont.bet%

2nd line is:
AF(flop), AF(Turn), AF(River) Showdowns when saw flop %

[Unabridged]

i want to see a program that is more catered to NL/PL(ie takes into account bet sizes, reraises, 3bets, ...)
PT constantly ignores these suggestions, so i think there is a good opportunity for PO or some other software to step in and take the market

[media1]

When will the "PT3" be released? can I afford to wait or should I get PO now because of what I have read here its better then the curren PT ?

[PokerAce]

We hope to have PT3 released before the end of the year, with public beta versions before then. Nothing is set in stone yet, though.