50nl 6max: 22 vs ??? Can i make him fold?

[meleader2]

24/23/18/78 hands.

that's right, 18 PFA. and he's checking flop?




Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com (http://www.leggopoker.com) - Hand History Converter (http://www.leggopoker.com/hh)

Hero (SB): $50.25
BB: $41.85
UTG: $51.55
CO: $53.30
BTN: $69.45

Pre-Flop: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $1.75</font>, BTN folds, Hero calls $1.50, BB folds

Flop: ($4) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($4) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $3</font>, CO calls $3

River: ($10) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $6.50</font>, CO ........

[Cueballmania]

Turn bet is fine. He's not folding the river.

[vixticator]

Fold preflop. I'm serious.

[Etats360]

what are you trying to get him to fold for 2/3 pot bet?

[Cueballmania]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. I'm serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling PF for set value is fine, IMO.

[vixticator]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. I'm serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling PF for set value is fine, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not spew but this is the kind of player I should think would be raising very wide from CO. When you miss, MOST of the time you end up c/f (like if he cbet here). You can't profitably call and c/r any flop. 3betting is too loose IMO. When you do make a set you get paid off so infrequently and this hand is impossible to play postflop OOP... I just fold it.

I call on the button FWIW.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. I'm serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling PF for set value is fine, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not spew but this is the kind of player I should think would be raising very wide from CO. When you miss, MOST of the time you end up c/f (like if he cbet here). You can't profitably call and c/r any flop. 3betting is too loose IMO. When you do make a set you get paid off so infrequently and this hand is impossible to play postflop OOP... I just fold it.

I call on the button FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

y does everyone ignore the 18pfa stat here? do you not notice this? if i hit a 2 and he cbets i'm getting alot of $ here. is that inconceivable?

suddenly he checks flop. he clearly doesn't have an ace, but i can't just bet the turn and give up if called. i could just give up completely, but i have NOT made any moves at all yet at this table.

i mean really, i might as well have 77 here cuz it's the same situation. and if i said i had 77 in my OP i'm sure the responses would be different.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
what are you trying to get him to fold for 2/3 pot bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

what would u bet? pot? that does the same thing as 2/3 pot bet.

[vixticator]

Wait, what does 18pfa mean? Heh. I assume preflop aggression. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

What his attempt to steal?

[NeverScurred]

I assume 18 pfa is postflop aggression, meaning this guy is an aggromonkey spewtard idiot.

[vixticator]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume 18 pfa is postflop aggression, meaning this guy is an aggromonkey spewtard idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]Ugh, nevermind. Brainfart. That doesn't necessarily means he'll spew with ATC facing agression. I guesss possible. Need actual reads like how he plays postflop.

[ QUOTE ]
1 y does everyone ignore the 18pfa stat here? do you not notice this? if i hit a 2 and he cbets i'm getting alot of $ here. is that inconceivable?

2 suddenly he checks flop. he clearly doesn't have an ace, but i can't just bet the turn and give up if called. i could just give up completely, but i have NOT made any moves at all yet at this table.

3 i mean really, i might as well have 77 here cuz it's the same situation. and if i said i had 77 in my OP i'm sure the responses would be different.

[/ QUOTE ]1. Depends how you intend to play it. If you c/r flop with a deuce, probably not getting much money. You'd need to let him hang himself on two or three streets and raise/shove. If he's somewhat smart you aren't getting anything other than a cbet and maybe a double barrell every now and then. Sample size too. I've run infinite aggro through 70 hands playing 25/25 a few times and not spewing.

2. Because he checks the flop does not mean he clearly has no Ace. This could easily be a weak Ace using the FLOP as pot control, inducing a bluff on the turn, etc. I do this a lot. Betting the turn is clearly something you should do though. Once you get called c/f or c/r the river are all fine.

3. No, but I wouldn't fold 77 pf. Sometimes 3bet, or call. Then do same as you did but more likely to take a different river line because folding out best hand is unlikely by leading and you could show it down cheaply.

[DMACM]

I hate the river bet.

A bet should either make worse hands call or better hands fold. His call on the turn might be a weak suited ace or a medium pair or a draw. He might fold the medium pairs fold and I emphasize might. I really dont think he folds an ace. doesnt matter if he folds the draw.

[DMACM]

[ QUOTE ]


y does everyone ignore the 18pfa stat here? do you not notice this? if i hit a 2 and he cbets i'm getting alot of $ here. is that inconceivable?

[/ QUOTE ]

you arent calling for set value to win a cbet. Id rather call a preflop raise vs someone with a 3pfa since odds of stacking an overpair are much better than stacking air. The question on whether to call preflop IMO comes down to whether he will spew several barrels with weak hands either bluffing or calling too light. A cbet isnt enough when u only hit a set 1 out of 7.5 times.

[ QUOTE ]

he clearly doesn't have an ace,

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought a weak ace was a likely hand for him, this is how I might play one vs you.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate the river bet.

A bet should either make worse hands call or better hands fold. His call on the turn might be a weak suited ace or a medium pair or a draw. He might fold the medium pairs fold and I emphasize might. I really dont think he folds an ace. doesnt matter if he folds the draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

if i'm betting turn i damn well be betting river. i can't counter a leak with another leak by checking river.

for the most part i agree with ur last statement.

[hennnerz]

Surely you are getting implied odds to call here preflop...

Why not just check it down and call any bets made if you think you're ahead still? Kinda sucks imo to make a pot here in a marginal spot when you could wait for much better spots. Then again thats what I am going for now, ABC, fold/dont loose much in marginal spots.