50NL Interesting hand w/ set of fours

[ivenhoe]

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
3 players
Converter


Stack sizes:
Button: $50
Hero: $80.20
BB: $70.15


Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is SB with 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif
Button raises to $1, Hero calls, BB calls.


Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($3, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.5, Button calls, Hero raises to $6, BB calls, Button calls.


Turn: T /images/graemlins/spade.gif ($21, 3 players)
Hero bets $15, BB raises to $30, Button raises all-in $43, Hero folds.

BB - 48/24/0.65 (only 26 hands)
BTN - 50/10/1 (only 20 hands)

Maybe I should raise little more on the flop.
Actually I`m getting almost right odds to call if BB isn`t going to fold: I should call 48$ to win 146$, and have 23% to make FH on the river. But if one of them made bigger set then we are dead. And I think it`s close but still little -EV to shove here.
What do you think guys about this hand?
Would it be easy push with standard 100BB stacks?
And what would you do if just one of them shoved and another one folded?

[Waingro]

Arrrgh, what´s wrong with you. Raise more on the flop, 4bet the turn all in. When I saw the two yahoos you were up against I went on monkey-tilt. How is this not top pair vs an overpair? That is such a huuuge part of their range.

[MAA]

Folding is a very large error imo. Flop raise is ok.def push the turn.

[bsball8806]

lol there's absolutely no way you should be folding the turn. Even if you put one of them on 89, I still think you're getting odds to shove. The odds are that neither of them eve n has 89.

[buttonpusher]

As stated by everyone thus far, don't fold the turn. I vote shove.

[gregorio]

shove. You are ahead so often here. Agree with Waingro about TP vs OP, or maybe they both have overpairs.

[ivenhoe]

It was so clear to me that one of them had 78. Unfortunately had small sample of hands but look at their AF.
And in the best case it`s only breakeven shove.
First time I can`t aggree with comments.

Results:
BB had 78o
BTN had 78o

[stabbyah]

You raised enough on flop by my standarts.
But you should never fold set on this network, from my experience NL50 at PR is crazy guys just go all in on gutshots and bottom pairs. I wouldnt be surprised if one showed top pair/2pair and the other a flush draw.

Ah yes i didn't notice the AF. They are the typical calling stations who almost never raise/bet and have 50+ VPIP. And if u had more hands on them it would be an easy fold with that low AF.

[infinity235]

[ QUOTE ]
It was so clear to me that one of them had 78. Unfortunately had small sample of hands but look at their AF.
And in the best case it`s only breakeven shove.
First time I can`t aggree with comments.

Results:
BB had 78o
BTN had 78o

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? You were 100% sure they hat 87? No way, you need to put them on a range and go from there. Even against passive calling stations, you have good equity here, because they could be raising their 2P.

Okay, let's say you know 100% they have 87 and they won't be folding. Here's your equity:

Board: 4d 9c 6d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.810% 23.81% 00.00% 840 0.00 { 4c4s }
Hand 1: 38.095% 00.00% 38.10% 0 1344.00 { 87o }
Hand 2: 38.095% 00.00% 38.10% 0 1344.00 { 87o }

Assuming BB won't fold (which he won't w/o the nuts), you are getting almost 3-1 on a shove here, so it's breakeven AT WORST. Remember we are assuming you are up against the nuts...

[jack492505]

Agree with what everyone has said. But it doesn't really matter. This is much easier spot for you if you raise the flop enough 6 is way too small imo I'm probably making it more like 9 or 10 on the flop leading the turn near pot. Then its an easy call if someone pushes imo.

[ivenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was so clear to me that one of them had 78. Unfortunately had small sample of hands but look at their AF.
And in the best case it`s only breakeven shove.
First time I can`t aggree with comments.

Results:
BB had 78o
BTN had 78o

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? You were 100% sure they hat 87? No way, you need to put them on a range and go from there. Even against passive calling stations, you have good equity here, because they could be raising their 2P.

Okay, let's say you know 100% they have 87 and they won't be folding. Here's your equity:

Board: 4d 9c 6d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.810% 23.81% 00.00% 840 0.00 { 4c4s }
Hand 1: 38.095% 00.00% 38.10% 0 1344.00 { 87o }
Hand 2: 38.095% 00.00% 38.10% 0 1344.00 { 87o }

Assuming BB won't fold (which he won't w/o the nuts), you are getting almost 3-1 on a shove here, so it's breakeven AT WORST. Remember we are assuming you are up against the nuts...

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, let`s take another range of hands assuming I`m sure one of them had 78o and another one had pretty wide range including overpair, top pair+FD, two pair, set, straight:

Board: 4d 9c 6d Ts
Hand 0 4c4s 16.837%
Hand 1 8h7d 64.796%
Hand 2 QQ,66,AdTd,T9s,87s,T9o,87o 18.367%

Do you see the diffrence?

[Fetzi]

lol @ random range for Hand2. Sorry your thinking is waaaay off.

[rakes.a.beach]

lol shoveeeeeeeeeeeeee

[ivenhoe]

It`s easy to say "lol shove". What`s wrong with my range?
Do you think he could shove here with overcards or bottom pair or what? /images/graemlins/confused.gif