50 BB Short Stack Strategy

[SilentThunder]

I'm making the transition from limit to no limit and want to test out Ed Miller's short stack strategy. He's advocating a 25 BB or less buy in for your short stack. The microlimits I'm playing at require a 50 BB buy in minimum. Relative to the rest of the table I'll still be a short stack. Relative to the BB I'm twice as big as is advocated for the strategy.

I can see this will require me to make more decisions on the later streets which has it's benefits and disadvantages. How much of the short stack strategy is dependent on your stack size relative to the size of the BB vs. your stack size relative to the size of your opponents' stacks? Is a 50 BB short stack strategy viable when your opponents are in the 50 to 250 BB buy in range?

[kerk]

practise 100 BB stratagy imo

[Profish2285]

Dont waste your time learning to short stack. Just learn 100 bb play, its infinitely more profitable if played correctly. Not to mention you look like a tool for short stacking micros and everyone is going to hate you because short stackers kill games.

[ICMoney]

There is still post flop play with 50bb and you will need to play flop/turn.

All the advice on 2p2/CardRunners is for 100bb.

Why not actually try to learn poker right from the start instead of unlearning bad habits.

50bb will prob having you always stacking off with TP.

You need to learn when to fold these hands.

Just start playing 100bb at 2nl, 10nl or w/e.

Download the 2p2 vids (over 80), read the SSNL digest posts and start pwning.

[ICMoney]

I started typing my reply when no one responded yet.

Great minds think alike.

[RelaxedPrecision]

Short stack strategy is a total waste of ur time. When u get better at poker u'll understand. For now, just obey.

[gregorio]

What site has min buyin of 50BB. I would love to find that.

[ QUOTE ]
How much of the short stack strategy is dependent on your stack size relative to the size of the BB vs. your stack size relative to the size of your opponents' stacks? Is a 50 BB short stack strategy viable when your opponents are in the 50 to 250 BB buy in range?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have 50BB stack, then you play the same whether your opponent has 51BB or 501BB. The size of the smaller stack is all that matters. If you are 3-way, then you can exploit the fact that your opponents have to play against your small stack and a larger stack. It matters to them. But the effective stacks you are playing against are always only 50BB, so their stack size has no effect on you, assuming they are 50+BB.

[kerk]

[ QUOTE ]
Short stack strategy is a total waste of ur time. When u get better at poker u'll understand. For now, just obey.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol

[vixticator]

Everyone hates shortstackers but I gotta admit it's tempting to play at certain tables, think you would run over decent regs and tilt the [censored] out of them doing it. Now I haven't done it but a well played short stack is borderline indefensible. Fortunately no one at micros knows how to do it. I suggest also learning deep play and maybe go bother the 200nl+ regs with this when/if you get there, lol.

[doppelganger]

Read this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=microplnl&Number=7964709& Searchpage=1&Main=7964709&Words=buying+short+Pokey &topic=&Search=true#Post7964709) and then just pick a limit where you feel comfortable losing five or six buyins as you get a feel for the game.

Short stacking will teach you nothing and the variance is so obnoxious you won't even know if it's winning you money for thousands of hands.

[LiveNow]

you should go to the euro sites and play where they have 10bb minimum.

[gregorio]

[ QUOTE ]
Short stack strategy is a total waste of our time.

[/ QUOTE ]
I spend so much time table selecting/switching to get away from shortstackers. It puts me on life tilt.

[ICMoney]

What good is tilting a reg if you choo choo, double up and then rathole?

[ajmargarine]

To be a good shortstacker, you need to know how to play 100bb poker.

[Profish2285]

[ QUOTE ]
I spend so much time table selecting/switching to get away from shortstackers. It puts me on life tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT

[vixticator]

[ QUOTE ]
To be a good shortstacker, you need to know how to play 100bb poker.

[/ QUOTE ]Good point.

[ICMoney]

You aren't short enough to push.

Not deep enough to play SC or PP for implied odds.

Seems like the worst of both worlds.

OP - you might like SNGs.

[LiveNow]

[ QUOTE ]
To be a good shortstacker, you need to know how to play 100bb poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
don't think i necessarily agree with this. You need to understand the game, and work hard. But i don't think one must be a successful 100bb poker player to be a good shortstacker.

[SilentThunder]

Well I'm definitely not owning at 50 BB. I'm being owned! So far the short stack strategy has been incredibly boring to boot which causes me to overplay when I actually have a hand.

Thanks for the advice on going straight to 100 BBs. I'm reading the microlimits Anthology thread now and will start playing with a bigger stack.

[doppelganger]

Vix has a reasonable point - at some point we may all reach our poker potential and find the only way to move up to the next limit is by playing a shortstacking strategy. ImsaKidd does very well at 200NL+ shortstacking and is well known in BBV for it.

However at the micros it's not worth using a strategy that will:

1. Not really teach you how to play
2. Make you roughly 1-2PTBB/100 (plus rakeback!)
3. Put your bankroll through more crazy swings than the playground at a mental instituion.

Instead learn how to play the turn and river well with a bigger stack, and make 4-5PTBB/100 with much less variance. Your bankroll will thank you in a few months.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
You aren't short enough to push.

Not deep enough to play SC or PP for implied odds.

Seems like the worst of both worlds.



[/ QUOTE ]

It is.

It's the 50bb guys and the guys who buy in a little short who pay the bills for most of uNL and SSNL. By either giving it to us themselves or giving it to the nitfishes and the tagfishes and keep them afloat and then we take it from them.

You can play 20bb's. You can play 100bb+. But, you can't fake good 100bb poker by buying in for 50bb's.

[vixticator]

I only know a bit about it from SNG strategy, but it would be best to shortstack against positionally aware LAG's than like looose passive fish no? Er, maybe not but I think I had a point before I typed this response.

[hoyasaxa]

DIAGF if youre even considering shortstacking. i will curse you and your children. i will also stack you repeatedly.

edit: totally grunched this thread out of sheer hatred for shortstackers

[doppelganger]

[ QUOTE ]
DIAGF if youre even considering shortstacking. i will curse you and your children. i will also stack you repeatedly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Honestly, they don't bother me that much any more. Just use their stats to put them on a range and play PF and flops accordingly. They increase the variance of course, but most of them suck so it's worth it IMO.


Edit:
[ QUOTE ]

I only know a bit about it from SNG strategy, but it would be best to shortstack against positionally aware LAG's than like looose passive fish no? Er, maybe not but I think I had a point before I typed this response.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno man. I've only done it a few times when I needed to clear platinumstar at Stars. I don't think it's fundamentally any different than other poker - play with your opponents ranges in mind and make the plays that maximize your value w/ respect to your equity.

[Nsight7]

More so than-short-stacking, I find that 50-65BB is pretty hard to defend against if played well. They offer you thin implied odds and if they can fire a 3-bet, you are going to be defending against them with their effective stack in your chips. Plus they can still usually get in a multi-way limp/min-raise limp with a small pp or so and play for at least a little bit of set-value. Plus people think of them in the same vein as someone buying in for half as much and pretty much aggress on them in the same way, which is now significantly riskier.

I dunno, maybe it is just me but I think playing a 50 or 60BB stack plays much differently than standard short-stack strategy and can be very profitable with less variance than standard short-stacking, though I agree also that if you can you should play full buy-in.

[Hebel]

i love playing medium stacks because they have enough behind them to give you fold equity and push them around