25NL : Set facing huge raise on river

[HP_Drifter]

Villain plays very nitty (I have him at about 10/4 over a few hundred hands), I'm not overly impressed with his postflop skill. Even though he's super nitty, is this still a call?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($37.45)
BB ($21.25)
UTG ($35.80)
MP ($30.05)
CO ($62.30)
Button ($36.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $2.5</font>, Hero calls $2.50, BB folds.

Turn: ($8) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: ($8) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $32.3</font>, Hero calls $28.30.

Final Pot: $72.60

[MMa7]

Raise on the flop so you can get the stacks in. As played call is ok, there are only 2 hands that beat you.

[mattgoody]

Well there are actually 3 hands than beat you (65 hit on the turn) but a guy who is 10/4 probably would not raise that preflop. Anyway someone like that is definitely capable of playing AA or AK this way, both of which are more likely than TT imo. Im insta calling.

[Ricky_Bobby]

Pretty spazzy play by him considering the only draw on the flop hit and he really can't have it. When people make plays that don't make sense and I have a set, I usually call.

[anthb7210p]

[ QUOTE ]
Im insta calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Kasane]

More money on the flop please -- the merits of donking/cr'ing are debatable. But whichever method you use, you're oop and you need to get more money in on the flop so that you can get it in before the river, or make the river easier for your villain to call.

c/c, c/r turn is the weakest line to take with a set because it'll fold out so much that we'd like to stay in. Well, okay, c/c, c/c, c/c would be worse...

If you're in position, you can flat call a dry flop...

[HP_Drifter]

I agree that I should have c/r flop. At the time I was worried about losing him since he was so nitty, dumb play by me. Oh well, will do better next time.

[idontlikeyou]

i dont really see flat calling as a dumb play here. if he is as nitty as you say he's not betting this flop without a strong hand and there is only a single hand that has you beat. he could put you on such an array of hands that he has to get the money in with a hand like AK or AA, all of which you shouldnt mind him seeing the turn.

you really shouldnt worry about TT stacking you off here. even if he has it you can chalk it up to a bad beat. anytime you let vilian draw that thin you're doing alright AS LONG AS YOU GET HIM TO COMMIT MONEY ALONG THE WAY.

what does everyone think the best line here against an uber nit is? smooth call flop and bet turn? if villian has AK or AA we can value bet his ass all the way. if he has less he's folding to any aggression anyways.

[slimon]

What is better betting the flop or checking raising oop? So if you were in position you can just check/call? Is that better than checking raising? If the pot was just heads up would you still checking raise or just check/call flop? Would you play a set the same way as a multi way pot?

[Profish2285]

I like the flop c/c. The board is so dry that a donk is getting most hands to fold as is a c/r. Im probably going to lead the turn for 1/2 pot, something weak looking where he can hopefully come along. As played there really isnt much else you can do. Your hand is beyond underrepped and his makes no sense. Im guessing its TT alot if hes as nitty as his stats suggest but I cant fold here tbh.

[Ricky_Bobby]

Guys who play 10/4 aren't getting away from AK/AA very often here even if you c/r flop. He might have that sneaky feeling that you have a set but he'll call the check raise, then reluctantly call the turn bet, then make a crying call on the river.

I think a check raise would be the best way to get money in the pot here.

The board is dry but it's the type that he'll usually go broke on with AA/AK and have an easy fold with QQ.

Check calling doesn't make a lot of sense to me because there aren't really any cards that can help him on the turn (unless he 2 outs us), but there are at least a few that can scare him, 3,8,Q, for example.

If we c/c then lead on the turn in this hand for example, he'll have a tough time raising after the straight hit.

When I'm unsure between two plays I lean towards the one that gets more money in the pot now and ensures that a scare card can't fall.

[Profish2285]

Im not saying hes folding AK/AA, the problem is, thats pretty much the only hands that stay after a flop c/r. Im not even sure he holds onto KQ/KJ with those stats. I think a turn lead for 1/2 pot looks weak and is more likely to get action from the lower part of his range than a flop c/r.

[Ricky_Bobby]

I know what you're saying.

My thinking is that this guy has a 4% PFR so there really aren't any marginal hands in his range. I realize it's a small sample but it has to be fairly close.

The thing is I want to play for stacks with this hand, and I'm not gonna worry about getting action from his weaker hands, cuz we're never stacking KQ, no matter what we do, but we might give hands that we could have stacked a chance to get off cheap.

AA/AK may be the only hands that call the c/r, but they're also the only hands we're stacking, so I'm gonna take a line to stack those hands and not worry about KQ,etc. The times you stack AA for 140bb should more than compensate for the times we get a 40bb out of KQ.

[HP_Drifter]

Yea, I pretty much agree with everything you said Ricky. I know what you're thinking Profish, because its pretty much what I was thinking exactly during the hand, but if we think it through, I think the c/r is better. His stats only really indicate that he has a super tight opening range, it doesn't tell us anything about his postflop tendencies. As I indicated, he isn't a strong post flop player, and despite his nittiness I've seen him call off with one-pair hands, which I should have taken into account before I decided to c/c. I believe c/r is correct, because with his range, hes gonna have something to call with almost all the time. KA, KQ, pocket pairs. The only thing I really see him raising and whiffing that flop with is AQ, AJ, possibly A10. He isn't playing hands like Q10 or 89 or anything that could pair up or pick up a draw on the turn that he'll call a turn bet with but fold to a flop c/r. As Ricky said, by c/r, we get value out of the vast majority of his range, and quite possibly stack him, while we're virtually only losing AQ/AJ