TPGK 3 bet pot

[Profish2285]

Villain runs at 30/6/2. I didnt see a point in raising as Im folding out pretty much anything he is doing this with that I beat. I also figured a flush draw is a small part of his range so theres not much protection either. Comments on line are appreciated.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Full Tilt (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-FullTilt.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($33.85)
SB ($8.75)
BB ($88.50)
<font color="#C00000">UTG ($66.50)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($66.30)</font>

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6.65</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $4.90.

Flop: ($14.05) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $8</font>, Hero calls $8.

Turn: ($30.05) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $20</font>, Hero calls $20.

River: ($70.05) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $31.85 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $31.65 (All-In).

Final Pot: $133.35

[mickeyzee]

I think I like a call pf from a 30/6 UTG raiser. Calling on flop and turn look good, river call is close though because I think you have a chop at best and most of the time run into AK or a weirdly played KK.

[Schiester]

Whats the hand sample size profish?

[thoman8r]

I don't like it. What are you beating here other than a bluff? At best your chopping but more likely this is AK or AA . I dunno, maybe it's weak but I fold the turn.

I also think it's ok not to 3-bet this guy pre-flop. A 6% PFR has a pretty tight range UTG. I'd imagine is 3-bet calling range is even tighter.

[Profish2285]

Over a thousand hands. This guy is more spastic than his stats suggest though. AK he is more than likely 4 betting same with AA/KK obviously. AA/KK is completely out of his range I will say, AK is a normal part. Also, what is the alternative here? If I raise his donk to a normal size then I am pretty much committed.

[powderman]

I would also just call PF and call down in much smaller pot.
As played, it's hard to fold river but the right move IMO.

[Profish2285]

Oh and one more thing, but the point of the river Im getting like 3:1 even with those odds I cant call here? I think this could be something random 25% of the time but maybe Im being optimistic. Everyone who says fold, when are you getting away from the hand then, the turn or river?

[thoman8r]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and one more thing, but the point of the river Im getting like 3:1 even with those odds I cant call here? I think this could be something random 25% of the time but maybe Im being optimistic. Everyone who says fold, when are you getting away from the hand then, the turn or river?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I previously stated, I'm folding the turn. He's not double-barreling with JJ-KK against our smooth call so what are we hoping he has, AJs? I don't think so...

[AZplaya]

do you have a fold to 3 bet stat on him? Alot of players will play A10 like it's the nuts on this board.

[Profish2285]

No, how do I even get that? When as I was at the table with him he came off as a loose idiot so I really dont think his range is nearly as tight as everyone else does. Trying not to be too results oriented but I ended up losing but not to anything that anyone here thinks. Up until the river I was fairly confident I was ahead and I was only pissed off when it made other Aces chop with me. My read was off about what he had but I was right that he is definitely looser than his stats suggest.

[Spurious]

I definitely raise the flop for value and information. Therefore i fold to a 3bet.

Other than that, he either has a set/boat or a worse TP.
If he'd 4bet AK pf.

Btw:
We have to 3bet preflop, we cant cold call. If we cold call, all other players will get goods odds to call and we play a pot OOP with a bad multi way hand.
Other than that, AQ is a strong enough hand to 3bet.

[Spurious]

[ QUOTE ]
No, how do I even get that? When as I was at the table with him he came off as a loose idiot so I really dont think his range is nearly as tight as everyone else does. Trying not to be too results oriented but I ended up losing but not to anything that anyone here thinks. Up until the river I was fairly confident I was ahead and I was only pissed off when it made other Aces chop with me. My read was off about what he had but I was right that he is definitely looser than his stats suggest.

[/ QUOTE ]

what did he have?

[Profish2285]

Yea I 3 bet for that reason, if I was the btn I would consider cold calling. I gotta be honest, I HATE raising here for info though. So I make it 27 or so, have 1/2 my stack in the middle and then fold to a shove? That seems gross to me.

[traz]

raise folding this flop is a terrible idea, just shove the turn

[Profish2285]

See that is honestly what I was thinking after the hand was over. I flat flop for a number of reasons but I dont think after flatting the turn Im getting anymore money from small pocket pairs or whatever. An ace probably is calling though, I felt like I really should have just shoved turn.

[AZplaya]

[ QUOTE ]
I definitely raise the flop for value and information. Therefore i fold to a 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you saying to raise the flop and then fold to a push??? Thats a horrible line imo.

[gregorio]

[ QUOTE ]
AQ is a strong enough hand to 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Villain has PFR of 6 and is UTG, so let's say they are a little tigher UTG than 6%, espcially since VPIP of 30 probably means they don't mind limping from early position. Their UTG raising range might be something like AQo+, AJs+ and JJ+. That's a range of 4.5% of hands. Against that range, AQo has only 35% equity. So I don't know if AQ is strong enough to 3bet. After villain doesn't 4-bet and we remove AA and KK from their range, going to the flop, hero still only has 40% equity. So based on these numbers, I don't like 3bet, and I might even fold this PF from HJ. I think Doyle says he never plays AQ (which obv isn't true, but I think this is the type of situation he doesn't like playing it) because it is the hand that has lost him the most money.

On the flop, Hero has 56% equity, but when villain bets out and then bets turn, their range is pretty much AJs+, AQo+, and hero is behind this range. It is a hard spot to fold, but villain doesn't seem very worried about you having AK, so it's hard to see them playing the hand this way with AJ or AQ.

But I think if you call the turn, you have to call the river.